XC trails?

[taprider]

there is a way to do two-way trails on steep side hill on the Shore

there must be frequent ups on the down and down on the ups
there must be frequent tight radius turns and narrow areas (no fast flow for the downhill) and don't make the trails wide but have frequent parallel single track to allow two way and passing,

go around both sides of a tree rather than removing trees or re-routing around tightly spaced trees, use a skinny on one side and a tight radius turn on the other to ease the gradient (the roots of the tree can still be protected).

overall, have enough technical terrain features that slow down the flow of the descenders without making it too technically difficult
ramps steeper on the uphill side than the downhill side
pinches before and after switchbacks, but a large turning platform to do your 180 (the switchback would be easy slow but very difficult fast, such as some corners on the Power House Plunge

The end of Recycle in Squamish is a starting point for a reference, just add parallel single track to be two way

[TheGiggler]

as people have stated, the difficulties in terrain and in keeping peple from bombing it as a DH course can be overcome. the real reason is that no group of people have been able to get the landowners on board, and for good reason. and as mentioned, it's about 100X easier to build fall line trails than xc trails.

synchro says Fromme is out of the question, but IMO, fromme has huge potential as a) the terrain is relatively mellow for any traversing trails (there already are some) and b) it isn't a shuttleable mountain. and as taprider said, if you make the trail so that it has rolling up/downs when ridden in both directions, the pedalling involved to keep your speed up will keep almost all the speed demons off it.

the big problem here is getting the land owners on board, getting funding (massive dollars needed -- think a shitload of bridges and rock work no matter where youbuild), etc.

Tyler, when was the last NSMBA meeting you attended? with the new influx of people and directors to NSMBA, maybe you might want to consider getting involved again. I know Richard like this plan, so what is needed is a group of peple to run with it, write a proposal, get a grant, etc ,etc. or we could just sit on the interweb and talk shit about the NSMBA people who are working their asses off on our behalf

[gary j]

i honestly believe the demonstration forest is the ticket for a great XC trail.
perfect terrain.
easy access for construction
willing land managers
and great facilities once the trail is open.

fromme is a non starter. there is a moratorium on new trail construction
seymour will never make good XC because you can drive to the top.

[TheGiggler]

Originally Posted by gary j

fromme is a non starter. there is a moratorium on new trail construction

sure fromme is still under-going the Alpine Rec plan, but i'm talking long term. by the time this is really rolling, the situation on fromme will have changed drastically.

honestly, the location is not the issue, by any means.

the issue is that no one has stepped up to form a group that will head this project. look at how Sharon raised all that money for work on CBC and BP and that was her first efforts at grant writing. with the right group and hard work, a shitload of money could be raised to make this happen. and when that happens, i highly doubt the landowners will raise obstacales against having a sustainable xc trail.

face it, 90% of our current trails are fall-line barely-sustainable lines. the future of the shore will not be in these lines as they take a shit-kicking every time it rains. the future of sustainable riding is switchbacked "xc" trails where you can actually divert water off of them and control erosion. sooner or later the landowners will clue in to this fact and realize that a real xc loop will not only make the sport more inclusive to beginners, but it will also be much more sustainable long-term.

you guys may think i'm out to lunch, but ask Sharon about how she raised like 30gs for trail work in one year on her first effort. the money can be found, and once the funds are there i'm sure that the LSCR would be on board if the the DNV still hasn't figured out that this would be about the best thing that could happen to fromme.

anyways

[gary j]

i was speaking short term.

and i agree 100% that a two-way XC trail is exactly what fromme needs.

we live right at the base and there are very few trails my wife can even ride. and after 1000 or so trips up that road, i can honestly say i won't miss that climb.

i'm not much of a grant writer but would be the first in line to build this line.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Originally Posted by gary j

seymour will never make good XC because you can drive to the top.

What if you made the trail such that it's not shuttleable? Perhaps a loop type of trail that starts & finishes off the BP or Bridal and is equally difficult in either direction. If there aren't any long DH sections, and loads of low-speed switchbacking for any steep sections, there won't be a shuttlewhore issue. You could also put a 15k+ section in the middle that has no bailout - ala CNumb. This will also help keep the traffic down.

All adds up to an instant classic XC on the shore. Probable - no. Possible - absolutely.

[sanrensho]

Originally Posted by ChunkyMonkey

What if you made the trail such that it's not shuttleable?

A long trail running along the east side of Seymour River would be nice. Something with lots of up/downs and maybe a flat trail running parallel to the river (a la Fisherman's) as a concession and bail out track.

[brian]

I ride Fisherman's a fair bit abd for the first time went on the Spur 4 road the other night. looks like the terrain could be ok in there and having to ride Fisherman's first or the bike path would be a good warm up and deter the big bikes. Sanrensho's right that a trail on the east side would be good. I think you would have to start it around Bottletop and go north.

[heckler]

Originally Posted by gary j

and i agree 100% that a two-way XC trail is exactly what fromme needs.

have you tried the BP? I rode it east from LOC last week on my Fuel, and had to turn around a couple times to ride it back and forth.

yes, short, but it's a great rip on a light bike.

[sanrensho]

Originally Posted by brian

I think you would have to start it around Bottletop and go north.

*Still dreaming* I haven't looked at the topo data, but they could start it right at the Twin Bridges crossing and begin a long, sharp climb from there. That would really discourage any big bikes, as well as discourage riders dropping in from Bottletop.

BTW, how far did you go up Spur 4? I've gone that way a few times and it seemed to end pretty quickly at the service road on a steep climb. (I might be completely mixed up on the directions.)

[brian]

I only thought from Bottletop because you would end up in the same area if going from Twin Bridges. plus there's a cliff band right by the bridges. if you put a switchback climb up a few hundred feet that deter a few people.

I rode to around the 8km sign and ran across a bear but not sure if it was the Spur road. a gravel road heading that way. pretty fun on a cross bike.

[Ninja]

I like the direction this thread is headed.

I'd come out of the woodwork for something like this.

[LeeLau]

Originally Posted by TheGiggler

the issue is that no one has stepped up to form a group that will head this project.

It's a good thing we have tyler durden who will head this effort up.

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by TheGiggler

if you want to call that xc, fine. but to most people who dont ride the shore that would be pedalling uphills to ride shore gnar ...

Finally, someone gets it. No, there aren't any gently rolling pleasant little ups and downs with latte stands and cute shoe stores amidst the bunnies and the flowers.

Wipe off the lipstick and SUCK IT UP, PRINCESS. They're ALL XC trails.

[taprider]

Originally Posted by Smoke

Finally, someone gets it. No, there aren't any gently rolling pleasant little ups and downs with latte stands and cute shoe stores amidst the bunnies and the flowers.

Wipe off the lipstick and SUCK IT UP, PRINCESS. They're ALL XC trails.

you made me LMFGO (there must be a smilie for that some where)