More correspondance

[cam@nsmb.com]

Start at the bottom.

Dear Ms Craver,

The only 'authorized' trail on the North Shore is the Baden Powell. That means that all existing hiking trails (aside from the Baden Powell) as well as mountain bike trails that have been there for 20 years are equally legal or illegal depending upon your perspective. Your omission of this point undermines your credibility. It also means that if you hike off the Baden Powell your activities are just as 'illegal' as ours.

As far as being an easy target I would suggest that it is the disinformation you send publicly to council and fonvca.org that has mountain bikers notice you. You suggest that our motives for maintaining the Baden Powell trail are disingenuous and that we act only out of self-interest. This is terribly insulting and an absolute fabrication. We have no desire to ride the Baden Powell trail when there are much better trails for our needs close by. How can you be surprised by our reaction when you make statements such as these? It seems it is you who owes mountain bikers an apology.

I cannot take responsibility for the statements made about you on our bulletin board, just as someone who builds a wall cannot be responsible for what is written on it, but I would question what brings you there. Are you a secret rider after all or are you searching for information to further your slanderous campaign against us? That said I have never advocated unpleasantness and I regret if you have been subjected to this via email. Considering the emails I have been cc'ed on that have been sent to Councillor Crist I would suggest he's becoming more sensitive - they were at worst rather innocuous and often very polite.

You also claim to be environmentally active but your family owns two SUVs while your husband speaks out at council meetings against public transit. You also live in a low-density neighbourhood on the edge of the rainforest. This sort of hypocrisy leads us to believe that you care little for the environment and that your actions are motivated by a personal dislike for people having fun in your area.

Concerning your fear of the weather, a little research would show you that the trail construction techniques we employ (supervised by Graham Knell most recently) allow trails to be ridden in all types of weather with very little adverse impact. These techniques were employed on the Baden Powell section so dig out your boots - thanks to us you are free to hike in any kind of weather. Isn't that nice?

You may be interested to know that West Van Council recently approved the construction of a mountain bike riding area near the top of Cypress Mountain. It seems the new council has finally seen the positive effect mountain biking can have on the community and are guiding their actions accordingly. On top of this the resort at Cypress will be offering lift-accessed riding for the summer of 2005 - another vote of confidence for those of us who ride non polluting off road bicycles. I would suggest that riding in neither of these areas will be deemed illegal but I'm not certain how they will respond to hiking in the same areas.

I hope that in future you will start to speak the truth and avoid the slanderous campaign of disinformation you have employed thus far.

Please feel free to forward any insulting emails you receive from mountain bikers and I would be happy to respond to the sender and let them know that I abhor this sort of behaviour. There are bad seeds in every community and I would personally like to help educate mountain bikers who are impolite or worse so we can have more harmonious relationships with the community.

Sincerely,
Cam McRae





On 3-Mar-05, at 10:14 AM, M E Craver wrote:

Dear Mr. McRae:_ Where do you get off with lying?_ If I had wanted to do something like that I would have physically removed those NSMBA plates attached to the Lower Griffin Trail structures, and torn down the "plans"(attached to trees) for the modifying of the Lower Griffen, long ago._ The temptation has been there._ But that is not how I work. Be aware, Mr. McRae, I am not the only resident in this neighbourhood that is pretty upset about the "takeover" of our natural forests by your kind -- but I happen to be the most vocal -- hence, an "easy target" for you and your www. nsmb.com board. Fair?_ I do not think so. As far as I know, the neighbourhood got Trail Days "invites" in their mailboxes._ I received three, myself._ Of course, I declined -- for reasons you are aware of.

____ It is clear mountain bikers propose to ride on this trail, as I noticed a typical newly built mountain bike ladder bridge leading to a bike trail about half way up that section of the Baden Powell Trail. Frankly, I had not really noticed that trail before, but now that it has been "defined" for mountain bikes, we are sure to see more biking traffic coming through._ That is the point I am trying to make to Council._ I have encountered numerous mountain bikers on that portion of the trail over the years.

____ Also, I do not hike that trail during or shortly after rains. But I continue to see many mountain bikers coming out to ride in the park and trails -- rain, shine, snow, and at night (wearing halogen headlamps)._ It is not I who is being unreasonable, but you, the nsmb.com and the NSMBA, and other assorted mountain bikers. You do not want to leave Fromme, or any of the other eight areas of the North Shore you now illegally ride on._ Perhaps LSCR and portions of Mount Seymour are "legal" now? -- I do not know that for sure.

_ __ You and I do know, however, that it is true mountain bike trails have been cut illegally all over Fromme without approval from the DNV, in prior years._ So why should we be commending your efforts, now, because you "maintain" these trails with "approval" from DNV?_ The truth is the bike trails you ride on are still concidered "unauthorized" (DNV's terminology. Sounds nicer than "illegal", I guess).__ Frankly, some of the derogatory things said on your www.nsmba.com website about those who do not approve mountain biking in forest habitats_ -- approved by the moderator -- tells the whole story._ So please get off your high horse of arrogance, Mr. McRae._ From the things I have read on your website bulletin board about myself and Councillor Crist, along the nasty private e-mails that have come our way,_ it is you who should apologize to DNV and_ myself._ Thank you.

Monica Craver


Cam McRae wrote:



Dear Mayor and Council,

I see recently that you were sent a letter by Ms M. E. Craver, a local resident who opposes mountain biking. In her letter she complains about the work many mountain bikers completed on the Baden Powell Trail between Mountain Highway and Mountain View Park. One would think, seeing as this is her neighbourhood, she would be pleased with this project. Instead, in an effort to further poison council against us, she attacked the work done by 130 volunteers. On top of that she was seen removing notices posted in the neighbourhood informing area residents of the opportunity to come out and help preserve the trail and the environment surrounding it. These are not in my opinion the actions of a reasonable person.

This section of trail was by all accounts a mess. It had essentially become a creek bed because of poor drainage and virtually no maintenance. It's interesting to note that mountain bikers very rarely use this trail because there are other more suitable routes down the mountain for us. Our desire to maintain and repair this trail was motivated by a desire to be responsible trail users and as a means of showing the Council, residents and other trail users how we care for the forest.

Ms Craver states; " The mountain bikers

[brentomatic]

Brilliant! Well done, Sir-Cameron. Very effective, very to the point. I loved it.

B

[dirty deeds]

The amount of time and energy wasted by the whole community because of 2 cracked pots is staggering.

How can she pretend to be so vehemently outraged because we restored what had turned into a rocky creek bed back into a solid trail. It's such bs. By her own words she shall be exposed.

Oh yeah, Monica. That 50 feet of the BP is going to be the new mtb mecca. People are going to come from all over to ride the gravel stairs into Mountain View Park. Extreme stuff.

[Troup]

From the 3 paragraphs I read out of 16 I liked it, very professional

[michelin man]

~~good on cam~~

[skifreak]

she nicely leaves out any response to your comment about her suv's the location of her house, and admits she has no knowledge of legal access to LSCR or mount seymour...

[Keefer]

Wow. Personally, I am amazed at how anyone could have construed getting 130 volunteers out to work on a trail we hardly (if ever) ride as a bad thing. When it all boils down to it, regardless of whether it is rock-armoured and looks like a bike trail; that's what is sustainable and limits damage to the environment.

[Smoke]

Hey we really pulled the wool over their eyes, eh?

Didn't we?

Ha ha. Jokes on them. All that sweat and toil, to put in all those stairs and fix drainage and fill holes. 150+ person days of hard manual labour, combining to do something positive for the community.

Those suckers never saw it coming.....

[Wayne P]

Whenever someone, anyone, describes a group of people in terms of "your kind", it opens a door to prejudice and discimination, as she described us. That's a slippery slope Ms. Craver.


So Monika, do you wish to close down the mountain to all? Or will you have a place fit for only you, your dogs, and children to use?

Sign up and let's hear it. I want some unbiased scientific facts from you, to which we have yet to hear. I for one will not bash you.

[Jerry-Rig]

Hi Monica,

I would suggest if you do not like what is going on in the forests of Fromme Mountain, you should really move. Your attempts to ban mountain biking is futile..... plain and simple. Common sense will prevail in this matter. We are here to stay.
If one person can make a difference, just see how much hundreds if not thousands can make.
I wouldn't hedge your bets with Mr. Crist either.... his days are numbered in council. The hypocrisies that spew from both of your mouths is staggering.
I would suggest its better to work with us than against us. I'm sorry but you just can't win in this matter.

Cheers,

JR

[Spaz]

Well done Cam, way to keep a level head.

I can't beleive the amount of BS that comes out of some people's mouths. Monica how can you sleep at night.

[the flying moose]

im glad its people like her and Crist that are trying to shut us down. attend meetings and show our support and let them dig their own graves with their continued ramblings. spewing unfactual information and trying to use that against us only helps our cause by discrediting themselves and their counterparts.

[Wayne P]

Don't bash her. I want to hear facts. Bashing will not get answers nor solve anything. We are a pretty positive and friendly bunch, let's stay that way.

Monika, why do you truely feel that we shouldn't be allowed to use the trails? Its got to be more than erosion. Everything causes erosion: people, people on bikes, dogs, horses, and nature itself. We are the user group who are maintaining ALL trails for everyone to use. You can not deny that, or you won't have any credibility. Do you want all trails to be closed off to all traffic? Period?

Your actions and words are falling on deaf ears, for the most part. Why don't you just try and work with us? We'd love the opportunity to work with you and Mr. Crist in a positive and progressive manner. With an open mind of course.

From our conversation last year on the exit of MVP and most of it I posted here, your arguement is littered with inacuracies and is quite flawed, to be honest. We have not heard anything you've said to be based on UNBIASED FACT or EVIDENCE. That means you don't quote or regurgitate biased knowledge from sources that agree with you. But in your defense, only about 5% of the population can grasp this theory, so nevermind!

Sign up, we would like to hear what you have to say. Please don't take on an offensive role because that solves nothing.

[Wayne P]

Originally posted by the flying moose
im glad its people like her and Crist that are trying to shut us down. attend meetings and show our support and let them dig their own graves with their continued ramblings. spewing unfactual information and trying to use that against us only helps our cause by discrediting themselves and their counterparts.

I agree. We as a group have become far more influential because of what they say. We value their contribution to our cause. They just don't know it!

[Lady Gravity]

nice job cam