hikers versus bikers

[patrolskid]

i'm gonna go on a little rant here . been doing alot of hiking lately and made some observations .
went up the west ridge of whistler the other day . some of you know this as the khyber . leads down to the microwave at the top of babylon by bike . this is an old , old HIKING trail that was established probably hundreds of years ago by the natives who traversed the area in the summer months . white people have used it as a HIKING trail since the beginning of the last century . personally i have walked it since i was a kid over 30 years ago . in the last 5 years or so it has become popular with bikers . in the last five years it has deteriorated a lot , obviously on the steeper sections . the first log crossing stunts are appearing .
my point is this : respect the trail for what it was originally created . make some new enviro friendly lines on the steep sections and any stunts made should be on " option " lines and leave the walking path as is . this will involve some work . those who have been enjoying this trail , and particularly those who have been making money off this trail OWE , big time .
next rant : whoever created " ride , don't slide " should have their ticket pulled . that trail is an example of how a trail should not be built . it was created by riders and should reflect the special needs riders put on a trail . there is not one concession made to the environment the whole way . the start of the trail is actually a drainage ditch off hwy 86 ! like , duh . where it was easiest to go straight down the hill , thats what they did . i think there are may be 4 switchbacks in 1800 ' feet of vertical . what an incredible waste . further , there has not been ANY efforts to maintain the trail , except to cut blowdown , and further the damage . who ever takes responsibilty for that trail should cease any efforts they have elsewhere and get back there and make it right . the little disclaimer at the top ( unhook rear brake ) is a fucking joke , and an insult to the hillside .
my point here is : bikers created their own trail ( thats cool ) even though the design sucked ( i've seen better designs on a shower curtain ) TAKE CARE OF IT !

[Bryce]

if I agree to 'make it right', can I take a chopper up?

[trout]

Who's making money off of them?

[Sharon]

Seems to be a progression, the new guys are taking over the old.

We did it when we started riding the shore 10 years ago.

Is it right or wrong?

The trails are certainly becoming more worn with the bike traffic. Babylon by Bike is definately in need of some lovin'

Thankfully you can't shuttle it! Is this trail on Crown land or Intrawest?

We noticed they (muni) deactivated one of the sections near the bottom of BbyB. I'm waiting for the gap jumps to appear.

When we had the meeting about Mountain View Park on Fromme, one of the guys mentioned he's been hiking here for 40 years... no wonder he hates bikers. But without the bikers, the trails would not exist? Then what would stop the developers?

How do you get up to Hwy 86 right now? We've never tried. (lee and I) Just wait until they open Garbonzo chair to the mountain bikers next year!

We've never ridden ride don't slide, looking at the topo... not sure if I want to!

I wonder what its like to ride down the Dave Murray Downhill...

[patrolskid]

sharon , i hear ya !
let me go through your post . i've got no problem with the new guys taking over from the old , i was one of the new guys taking over when the first MTB's showed up on the shore in the late seventies , early eighties . the oilcan , that's an example of a trail that was constructed by MTB's to get off the hiking trails and provide new challenges that weren't found on the hiking trails . point here : respect for the existing hiking trails as hiking trails . MTB trails built for MTB's
second point ; there always seems to be a ton of interest to build new trails , but after the newness wears off , and the trail is trashed , where are the builders ? on to the next cool new project .......
don't know anything about mountain view park , but i do know people were hiking there for years before MTB's showed up .
three ways to ride up to 86 . from creekside , ride up summer road to bottom of coaches corner or treeline pitch on franz's . the company built a new road for Joe's kid up through treeline . take crossroads over to expressway . get on the summer road and head up to 86 , make sure you go around the swamp . right now they're doing a major on that ugly corner below grand finale but you should be fine on weekends . any mountain staff will be cool if you tell them where you are going . village side ; just ride up summer road to 2.5 , take a right , carry on the whole way . or , if you're into the major grovel , stay on the main all the way to the round house , get on to pika's traverse and go all the way to the peak and then ( after a stop in the peak shack ) head down the old 86 ( not frontier pass ) .
ride , don't slide : not worth the effort
waste of vertical .
dave murray would be nasty . no established line . now grown over with tall grass and hidden cross ditches lurking . as an aside , the trail designer at whistler has tried to avoid any trail construction on open ski slopes due to the obvious erosion issues .

[Sharon]

Yes, it would be good if MTB'rs would respect the existing hiking trails. But alas, it is easier to take over a trail then build a new one...

We're fortunate on the North Shore that we have dedicated trail builders. Without them we would not be what we are.

Upper oilcan was no where NEAR as Buff before Peter adopted it. The original builders obviously abandoned it. 7th was also pretty chundered before we had a few trail days on it, as well as some people going in on their own to fix it up ( peter and dean ). Pipeline is the most neglected trail on Fromme, we were going to have a few days on it, but are working on BP for political reasons... next year.

We can only hope that when the current builders/maintainers move on, someone will fill their shoes.

We rode the flank trail from Cougar yesterday. There were some REALLY manky stunts on it going over some tree fall! We noticed a few dirt bike tracks on the most northern section before where the trees weren't cleared. Hopefully they will keep the trees there to stop the dirt bikes! and this is a muni trail!

[BURKE PHANTOMS]

I am involved in a group that is building on Burke mountain in Coquitlam. Burke is destination spot for hiking and from what I understand has had numerous recreational incarnations over the years. Currently we are building our own trails that are biking specific but we have volunteered when asked to make certain sections of the main trail line more passible for hikers. The changes we made were to place the rungs on our creek and mud bridges very close together so that they are easily passible on foot. This would not have occured to us unless we had the pleasure of running into a nice older man who hikes the trail regularily. I guess the point of what I am saying is that sharing and cooperation can happen it just takes a little bit of diplomacy and cooperation. This may not be the case in whistler and the trails might be rough but as Sharon said trails evolve to the needs of those who use it. If this trail is being used by bikers for the majority then the trail lines will most likely change. If hikers want the trail for themselves then they should take on the maintenance, build the walking lines back up and put up notice that this the way it should be. This at least sends a message to trail users that this trail is intended for hiking only. In fact I remember years ago accidentally coming down the BP on the shore. It was made clear to me then that if bikers are going to stay on the mountain than they needed to stay off the BP. Just my thoughts

[parts]

That sucks that ride don't slide has gone to shit. I was on it ~ 5 years ago and had a hoot. Thankfully there;s a trail a little higher up still rocks- it seems to have changed very little in the past 10 years. It's still a toss up what's more fun skiing or biking on that side.

Does anyone know of a reroute to avoid the mess once tunnelvision turns into the DJs sharon alluded to? I discovered those last year and couldn't figure it out. I thought it'd be paved by now.

[Sharon]

The muni deactivated that section for some reason. There doesn't seem to be an alternate line. I think they did it to stop motorbikes.

Tunnel Vision will be rerouted around Kadenwoods.

BP - you can ride the Baden Powell except on a couple of sections that you really physically CANNOT ride. It is and always has been a multi-use trail. The section from Fromme down to Lynn Canyon is closed to bikes because it is a series of stairs that you can't ride very successfully anyway.

[FlipFantasia]

they're rerouting TV? there is that new section the rerouted last year, comes out just above the road up to kadenwood........as for bikers taking over hiking trails, could part of the problem be a lack of communication? I mean kyber is listed on the bike trail map, so as far as anyone who picks that up knows it's good to go on bikes....that doesn't excuse poor riding technique and tearing up the trail mind you, but with the prolifiration of bikers in this town I could see how people wouldn't know a trails history, I've been here since october and still don't know a lot of this stuff....mind you I'm starting to learn! I hear you on the build and forget about it mentality though, my roomate and I have rebuilt a couple of sketchy bridges on the upper part of mel's, still have two to do, and I want to fix some sketchy stuff lower down, and build a new birdge over a real swampy area that's getting overly eroded, it is hard to find all that time though!