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Old 05-05-2003, 07:11 PM   #1
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Unhappy Using dead fall

I read a thread on the weekend where someone was all against using deadfall for building, and recommended instead to buy 2x4's. The reason was that putting deadfall up in the air would take away from a forest floor's nutrients and the forest was some closed loop or something. I disagree. Wood on a ride lasts max 2-3 yrs, so you're only borrowing the tree food for a couple of years, after which you return it all mulched up. Trust me, the trees will not notice!!! Plus by simply hanging out in the forest you take all the carbon from that carbohydrate in your breaky and you donate it to the trees every time you exhale. You can more than make up for the fact you're borrowing some wood from the forest floor by taking a piss by the trees. Piss has nitrogen in it which trees use to make amino acids to grow. As for not nailing stuff to trees cause it might hurt em I say if the tree is big enough and you need to put a nail into it, just do it!!! Trees have been evolving over milll's of yrs to deal with bastards like woodpeckers and beavers mashin holes in em, they can handle a few nails! Just make it up to the tree by exhaling lots of CO2 and taking a good piss.
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Old 05-06-2003, 01:54 AM   #2
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Where do the 2x4's come from... clearcuts usually. Tell me that a clear cut is more environmentally friendly than picking up a month old log on the forest floor. The wood will still rot if you take deadfall. Also, 2x4's are usually treated with all sorts of chemicals.

Deadfall (with 1 month) for me.
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Old 05-06-2003, 03:17 PM   #3
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im all over using deadfall cuz going out and buying 2x4's big money
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Old 05-06-2003, 04:13 PM   #4
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Originally posted by theoriginalhardcore
im all over using deadfall cuz going out and buying 2x4's big money
Damn straight. Also, the cedar deadfall is closer to the trails than home depot, and I don't have a key to the gate (yet).
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Old 05-06-2003, 04:32 PM   #5
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using factory built kiln dried lumber to build trails is wrong. Trail building goes back to the stone age, when building materials were taken from the surrounding landscape. What are we going to reinvent the wheel here, it is ugly to see 2x4. Nothing is more beatiful then a trail carved from the surrounding terain.
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Old 05-07-2003, 08:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by ATN
Where do the 2x4's come from... clearcuts usually. Tell me that a clear cut is more environmentally friendly than picking up a month old log on the forest floor. The wood will still rot if you take deadfall. Also, 2x4's are usually treated with all sorts of chemicals.

Deadfall (with 1 month) for me.
Good luck building a trail with only 1 month old deadfall cedar. How much cedar falls in 1 month ? Not that much. There's no getting around the fact that you need to cut live trees to build stunts. As long as you cut anything under 8" or so down, your giving more nutrients to the bigger trees. Its called thinning. The Europeans have successfully been doing this for decades in the forest industry.

Only Cedar should be used for building. Cedar is strong and durable (almost as strong as oak), and has natural anti- bacterial and anti-fungal properties. All native totem poles are made out of cedar.

Only a small % of structural lumber is actually treated. Most lumber is just kiln dried (19% and under moisture content). The treating process consists of high pressure and a wood preservative chromated-copper-arsenate (CCA). The problem with CCA lumber is chemicals (Copper, Arsenic, Chromium) leeching into the environment.

Some species of trees (Douglas Fir, for example) need sunlight to grow (shade intolerant). Therefore, you need to clear cut to replant. Douglas Fir is very desirable due to the structural strength, integrity and appearance.

Fact: For every tree that is cut down, 3 are replanted. Each with a 80% or better of surviving.

Its also more economically feasible to clearcut. Rmember foresty is still #1 industry in BC. Hundreds of thousands of jobs depend on it.

More harm is done to the environment from farming than forestry. To make farmland (not in all areas), you must remove all the trees (which will never grow again). Pesticides and herbicides leech into the water supply. No one ever protests about this !

I do think that clearcuts need to be done but on a small basis. The size of the clear cuts that used to be is appalling.

The BC Forest Practices Code does have valid points and is generally really good towards logging and the environment.

Clear Cuts are also needed for control of the Mountain Pine Beetle. Its out of control in the Williams Lake area, so much of the forest is dead. The only way to fight it is fire, logging or pheromones.

National and Provincial Parks also need to be logged. They are tinderboxes. With all the fire suppression, the forest floor is so dry. Forest fires have been around since the beginning of time and by us fighting fires, we are playing god. We need forest management there. Look what happened to Yellowstone National Park in 1988: 800,000 acres burnt (36% of park), $120 million to fight and 9,500 firefighters.

The goal is to have a sustainable working forest that involves room for industry, recreation, native settlements, parks, city development etc. The hard part is deciding how much gets what.


End of rant.
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Old 05-07-2003, 09:30 AM   #7
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I like fires
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Old 05-07-2003, 04:09 PM   #8
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Even if some live trees had to go, I still won't be buying 2X4's.
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Old 05-07-2003, 10:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by tazzmenn
using factory built kiln dried lumber to build trails is wrong. Trail building goes back to the stone age, when building materials were taken from the surrounding landscape. What are we going to reinvent the wheel here, it is ugly to see 2x4. Nothing is more beatiful then a trail carved from the surrounding terain.
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Old 05-08-2003, 12:16 AM   #10
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dont just go cutting down every tree u se only cut down what u need
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Old 05-08-2003, 06:45 AM   #11
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part of the challenge is winding the trail thru trees, without having to cut many. sometimes its unavoidablebut its sweet to rip thru tight trees
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Old 05-08-2003, 03:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jerry-Rig
Rmember foresty is still #1 industry in BC. Hundreds of thousands of jobs depend on it.

Actually, our #1 industry is tourism - has been for years. So, on that note, leys build more trails and keep a thriving economy, shall we?
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Old 05-08-2003, 03:32 PM   #13
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Cut off the trail.
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Old 05-09-2003, 06:17 AM   #14
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Originally posted by Zedbra
Actually, our #1 industry is tourism - has been for years. So, on that note, leys build more trails and keep a thriving economy, shall we?
I am mistaken but Foresty is a close second.
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Old 05-09-2003, 06:56 AM   #15
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There's more to life than economix
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