OHVs allowed in parks...could your riding place be next?

[HIBuLlitT]

So there is a big push to get the CRD to change their bylaws and allow OHV's at Harbourview (and Broomhill to a lesser extent). This movement has the support of the Sooke mayor and the mayor of Metchosin. After a few years of
fighting and going through the process, we were weeks away from getting this designated a bike park (like the dump
but with hiking too). Now the OHV group with support from some CRD staff have tabled it and are looking to "review"
the park, which could mean a few more years of going through the "process".

Then end result will be quads and MX's on mtb trails. Even now with the gate closed and posted "no motorized vehicles"
OHVs have been ripping up quite a bit of our trails. If the gates are open, you can say goodbye to these trails. We need
the support of anyone, and if you guys could find the time to write a letter, it would help. Of importance is mentioning
that you would no longer want to come to our city to ride bike and SPEND MONEY in Sooke if there's no place to ride without
OHVs.

This is the groups FB page:http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/...d=236921441704

Some of the destruction they cause:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAZQm...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA2ri...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzops...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5nHS...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=918wf...eature=related



If you need talking points:

FOR MTBing:
*Health benefits of MTBing
*Low impact/footprint
-http://www.imba.com/resources/science/trail_shock.html
-http://www.imba.com/resources/scienc...mpey_2007.html
*History of trail maintenance volunteering
*Involving youngsters will help reduce drug use
-http://www.ehow.com/way_5325092_drug...-children.html

AGAINST OHV's:
*Habitat destruction
-http://www.glorietamesa.org/ohv-orv-facts-sheet.php
-http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/ohvdamageaccount/index.html (it's so bad in Minnesota they have a state fund to pay land owners for damage).
-http://www.glorietamesa.org/in-the-news.php
*Noise (many OHV's don't have good muffler systems)
*Dangerous to hikers and bikers (high speeds, vehicle traffic where people are hiking)
*Displace wildlife
*If they open the HV road, how much will it cost to maintain it with all the extra
traffic?


Contact information (BE POLITE, CURSING AND ANGER WILL NOT HELP):
(CRD staff) http://www.crd.bc.ca/about/board/directors/index.htm
(Sooke council and mayor) http://www.sooke.ca/EN/main/contacts/feedback.php

The OHV people argue that they have no place to ride...not true, they have WAY more places
to OHV than we do to ride a bike or hike.

Examples:
Stamp Mountain
Boneyard main
Butler main
Neild road motorbike club property
Jordan River trials trails
Olifant lk
Burnt bridge
Bamberton
Emerald forest (west Shawnigan)
Western Speedway dirt bike track
...these are just the ones I know about, I don't OHV.

If the CRD allows OHVs in parks, this could have implications throughout the province.
This would set a precedent for other local, federal and provincial land managers.

Please help.

[drummer_dil]

kids will do drugs with or without vehicles in parks

[HIBuLlitT]

Originally Posted by drummer_dil

kids will do drugs with or without vehicles in parks

Yeah, their point is that everything else is so boring so if they can't do OHV stuff
they'll do drugs.

[juan]

This is a tough one to call. It was a recreation area before it was a park afterall. Just no official title.
You can thank the OHV crowd for putting in many of the trails out there. I am aware that a large number of MTB specific trails have been built as well. That is great. I enjoy riding those trails.
The Harborview area has some of the best 4x4 trails in the Pacific NW. People were coming from all over North America to test themselves and their equipment. They are a user group, just like MTB that is being pushed out farther and farther.
I know as a mountain biker, I do not care to ride on bike paths like the goose. So to look at it from an off roader perspective I would not be thrilled to drive up and down logging roads.
There are bad apples in all groups. There are also responsible users as well.
I remember the Island Rock Crawlers doing massive clean ups out there, taking out tons of garbage.
Maybe all user groups could come together on this one
It would be great to have a true Multi-use recreation area out there.
The trail system is in place already. Why not use it.
just my 2cents

[HIBuLlitT]

The need for a non-motorized park area is huge. There are very few hiking and
biking options in the Sooke area. There are lots of areas to OHV. Sooke is in dire
need of a economy, and OHV isn't going to cover it all. Sooke is prime to be a destination
not just some place people drive through to get to the west coast trail. Fishing
charters are starting to fill that bill and there's ziplines...but, we need to bring in
the families and with the opening of the new hotel(s), there will be a need for hiking
and outdoor recreation without fear of being run over by some punk on a quad.

Yes "some" of the trails we ride on were made by mx's, but most were made by us. Access was created by the logging companies.

By fighting for this one area they are loosing support for their other fights out
toward JR. If they're such a good user group, why is it that the logging companies don't want them on their land anymore? Liability? Destruction of roads? Trash?

[juan]

The logging companies do not want anyone out there period. It is not just the OHV crowd that is doing the damage. Enviro activists hiking in and torching equipment. Mount bikers cutting down trees. Hikers straying off trail.
No off roading is not going to turn Sookes economy around. Sookes future is based on being a suburb of a growing Victoria.
The point I am trying to make is that the Harborview area is HUGE!!!! The trails are in place. Why go and put new trails in farther out in Jordan river? There are an abundance of Hiking trails between Vic and Port Renfrew. Juan de Fuca, Kludak and it's off shoots, East Sooke Park. West coast trail. And many smaller ones.
I would just like to see a true Multi use area where all user groups can be accommidated and work together.

[Adam West]

I dont think HV should be multi use, I think they should open butler main though. other than that there really is alot of places for ohv (boyds, J.R, Shawnigan etc.)
a ohv park would be great just not at harbour view with all the dog walkers, hikers and Mtbs on the road adding motorcycles that will just fly by without consideration and trucks will be accidents waiting to happen

[juan]

I do agree that there would be some conflict especially between MX and hikers.
I would like to see a sign in sign out type system, kinda like what you have up and down the island. Plate numbers, Bike vin, etc.. Where you are going. Monitor the access points. Truly manage the area and what is happening within it. To a certain degree

[Wayne P]

Its good for each group to have their own areas to play in without other user groups interfering.

Don't get high and mighty like hikers vs mountain bikers when talking about dirtbike users. In this town dirtbike users are far and away more responsible for their actions than mountain bikers are. I'm very involved in both groups so I see both sides.

Your needs as a mountain biker are no more important than anyone else's. Posting up "anti-" propaganda does nothing for your cause but make your cause look elitist.

Mud bogging is the difficult one because of the massive amount of damage, but those guys need a playground too.

[juan]

I do not think anyone is getting high and mighty Wayne. I also ride MX and hike and mountain bike. Out here on the island the main conflicts are between hikers, mtb, mx and quadtards. That is the reality.

[enduramil]

Originally Posted by Wayne P

Its good for each group to have their own areas to play in without other user groups interfering.

Don't get high and mighty like hikers vs mountain bikers when talking about dirtbike users. In this town dirtbike users are far and away more responsible for their actions than mountain bikers are. I'm very involved in both groups so I see both sides.

Your needs as a mountain biker are no more important than anyone else's. Posting up "anti-" propaganda does nothing for your cause but make your cause look elitist.

Mud bogging is the difficult one because of the massive amount of damage, but those guys need a playground too.

^This.

Out here get the same. Funnily enough had some help placing a log by a couple of dirtbikers today. And they don't even ride the trails- just the doubletrack. Don't expect that from mtbers much.

But the reality is. Thanks to the Big Iron shoot out incident expect all users to come under scrutiny. And expect everyone to be effected by the fall out.

[Adam West]

i wonder how people would feel if it were fromme that would be the area in consideration for ohv "multi use" area

[HIBuLlitT]

Originally Posted by juan

The point I am trying to make is that the Harborview area is HUGE!!!! The trails are in place. Why go and put new trails in farther out in Jordan river? There are an abundance of Hiking trails between Vic and Port Renfrew. Juan de Fuca, Kludak and it's off shoots, East Sooke Park. West coast trail. And many smaller ones.
I would just like to see a true Multi use area where all user groups can be accommidated and work together.

There's no issues with MTBin out JR way, nor do the logging co's bitch about hikers
out that way. They have singled out OHVs, so I ask why? Not conjecture, why after
allowing it for so long have they expressed a desire to get them out (not that
they're trying that hard).

There's no need to cut NEW trails out there, they are already there. The people
wanting OHVs at HV from the CRD should be petitioning the District to have official
access to the land west of there.

This is a bad fight, for a area that we (mountain bikers) need desperately.

Originally Posted by Wayne P

Its good for each group to have their own areas to play in without other user groups interfering.

Don't get high and mighty like hikers vs mountain bikers when talking about dirtbike users. In this town dirtbike users are far and away more responsible for their actions than mountain bikers are. I'm very involved in both groups so I see both sides.

Your needs as a mountain biker are no more important than anyone else's. Posting up "anti-" propaganda does nothing for your cause but make your cause look elitist.

Mud bogging is the difficult one because of the massive amount of damage, but those guys need a playground too.

I just posted all the posts I could find of off-roading in Sooke. That's it, all that
footage was taken in the last year when it was illegal to ride. This is indicative
of the OHV population out this way. While there is a small percentage of OHV
users out here that will/have helped to clean up...most of that clean up has been
the result of OHV users. Riding through streams that feed salmon spawning grounds
with your truck or quad is bad.

If we could open HV road to allow access to Shields lake and beyond and keep
OHVs off of MTB and hiking trails I'd say lets do it. The reality is that the "small"
group that will go where they want (mt Quimper, Sooke mountain, Potholes area)
will do so much damage we will not be able to keep up let alone improve the
area for MTBing and hiking, dog walking etc.

Self policing may work where you live Wayne, but they have shown little ability to
do that over here.

[HIBuLlitT]

Originally Posted by Adam West

i wonder how people would feel if it were fromme that would be the area in consideration for ohv "multi use" area

Why not, if they can open this park to OHVs why not Fromme or Cypress?

[juan]

I just got back from a ride up in Duncan on Mt Tzeouhalem. We encountered a couple of trials motorbikers. We were talking about this same topic.
The Zoo is supposed to be non motorized and biking and hiking only. I feel that if the two guys we saw are riding responsibly then I am not going to jump on a soapbox and start WWIII.
The people I have talked to about squamish, who live there are saying good things about the trials guys on MTB trails. Maybe we can work together.
I can also see the point that some are making about cypress or fromme. And it is valid.
I just think that the area in question out in sooke is so vast, it could work there.
On a side note, the Zoo was wicked today