e.13 pedals.. interesting stuff on sicklines

[Wayne P]

Why do you guys care so much? Its not like we're talking important stuff like brake cleaner here.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Wayne P

Why do you guys care so much? Its not like we're talking important stuff like brake cleaner here.

I use brake cleaner to wipe off the dirt on the sidewalls of my Michelins so that I can read the directional arrow... and then mount the tires backwards!

[mattj]

About pedal pins being screwed in from the top or the bottom, I don't think it matters. When you're pinning it and you smoke a rock, you're gonna lose the pin no matter which side of the screw the tool interface is. Whether or not your pedal's threads are wrecked (allowing you to replace the broken/lost pin) is a lottery in either design.

I'm just not interested in a pedal that uses multiple pieces for the main body. As for the bearings vs. bushings issue, the '08 Straitline pedals run on a bearingless bushing interface. Time will tell if this is a good system or no, but so far I'm hearing nothing but great feedback from my customers. I know that personally with something as expendable as a pedal, I don't service or replace the bearings. By the time the bearing goes, there is enough other damage to justify another set of pedals. But for the crowd that likes to service their parts rather than replace, I'm certain that there will be the opportunity to do this on the new E13 pedals too...

Basically I'm not hating on the product per se, I'm just disputing the material choice, the sandwich construction merging 3 pieces where previously one sufficed, and the inevitable high price that this item will carry...

Also the claim about innovation too - cause there's nothing conceptual these pedals are doing that hasn't been done before...


-m

[Jonas]

Timmigrant,
I'm not sure how we've managed to miss three communication attempts. Bearings seizing is certainly not normal behavior, either is destroying a roller. Sorry you've had this experience. Feel free to give me a call directly and we'd be happy to help sort out your roller concern. Maybe we can troubleshoot what's going on. We feel that a properly setup DRS systems is the unsung hero of our product lineup. We're happy to see more and more riders moving towards two rings on their bicycles. It's been a long time coming, but it's really where the future of our sport is headed.

978.537.9313

Jonas

[Dean W]

There are a lot of crabby gear whores on this board right now.

Ride more, bitch less.

[Playdead]

Originally Posted by mattj

About pedal pins being screwed in from the top or the bottom, I don't think it matters. When you're pinning it and you smoke a rock, you're gonna lose the pin no matter which side of the screw the tool interface is. Whether or not your pedal's threads are wrecked (allowing you to replace the broken/lost pin) is a lottery in either design.

I'm just not interested in a pedal that uses multiple pieces for the main body. As for the bearings vs. bushings issue, the '08 Straitline pedals run on a bearingless bushing interface. Time will tell if this is a good system or no, but so far I'm hearing nothing but great feedback from my customers. I know that personally with something as expendable as a pedal, I don't service or replace the bearings. By the time the bearing goes, there is enough other damage to justify another set of pedals. But for the crowd that likes to service their parts rather than replace, I'm certain that there will be the opportunity to do this on the new E13 pedals too...

Basically I'm not hating on the product per se, I'm just disputing the material choice, the sandwich construction merging 3 pieces where previously one sufficed, and the inevitable high price that this item will carry...

Also the claim about innovation too - cause there's nothing conceptual these pedals are doing that hasn't been done before...


-m

Those Straitline pedals look sweet! If they don't cost too much I'll be looking at those when getting new pedals, when I can afford it.

I just think that the Staccatos look pretty cool and was amazed to see everyone dismissing them outright. Innovation may have been too strong a word in this situation though, it's a creative design that hasn't been done before (edit: in this way) and I think that's cool.

[mattj]

group hug!


-m

[shirk]

Originally Posted by thedude

There are a lot of crabby gear whores on this board right now.

Ride more, bitch less.

nah just people that see past marketing hype and fuax engineerding bs.

[Couch_Surfer]

Originally Posted by Jonas

Bearings seizing is certainly not normal behavior, either is destroying a roller.

A> Big props to you for responding to this thread.

B> Uh - really? It's a pretty common conversation here if you bring up DRS performance for people riding the Shore. It gets gummed up, stops rolling and then just gets chewed up by the chain. I'm not even one of these cursed Stinger fan-boys *shakes fist at sky* and I gripe about it.

Seriously, you must have heard this complaint coming from this region before this thread.

[Jonas]

Maybe we can start another thread on it? Might help for readers in the future looking for some info on the subject.
I don't want to hijack this one, but certainly want to hear the feedback.
Otherwise, feel free to give us a buzz.

[Jonas]

Man, it’s crazy to see everyone separate like oil and water over the past couple years. The dynamics of the forum conversations these days are incredible.
Someone once pointed out to me “Almost everyone can get along for a while, but at the end of the day everyone needs to belong to a tribe.” Maybe it’s a quote from someone or somewhere specific, I don’t know. Maybe I didn’t even get it right, but that was the gist of it. It seems to make sense though.
Hate a brand or love a brand, competition drives innovation, and who benefits in the end?

You.

Because of companies trying to re-design, re-engineer and troubleshoot problems with the latest and greatest technologies the end user now gets to ride 8” travel machines that can handle abuse unheard of ten years ago. Technologies have always trickled down into industries like ours from the top end motorsports worlds. Believe it or not it’s turned face in the past couple years, and because our sport is so demanding on equipment and athletes you get to be the first to use technologies that trickle up. I think you’ll see some big improvements in the motorsports circles because you riders demand so much.

There is no reason to stop demanding. You riders want to push the envelope and that only makes us want to do the same. In doing so e.thirteen has ridden many pedals and picked riders’ brains for the past few years (pros and beginners alike, everyone counts) and come up some points that we isolated as issues with many current designs. You may disagree with the points themselves and that’s perfectly fine. You may even hate some of the design aspects and that’s just fine as well. Each to his (and her) own. What we did discover in talking with so many riders is that we had A LOT of opinions and angles to consider. Pedals are one of the most personal options a rider can choose from. Color and weight and all that crap aside, if a rider is too distracted by a part of their body that’s directly connected to a machine then they’re not concentrating on what’s important - the next berm, the landing, the finish line, the log, the curb, the pedestrian, (maybe the fun?) ….. and that’s what all our research and development have been about. Our goal has been that once you get on the bike you forget about the pedals.

Some thoughts on the new e.thirteen pedals that hopefully clarifies some questions are listed below.
After the recent pedal release we discussed some finer points with riders across the board. Some aspects will be reconsidered.

Pins: The pins are fully custom (every single part of the pedal is, actually), and are shouldered to both help hold the face plates down and resist bending or shearing. They are inserted and extracted via a hex interface from the back side, so there should never be a reason to have a stuck pin. Three difference lengths so riders can customize. We studied the sole patterns and stress points of about three dozen different riding shoes to get where we are at now. Placement options will be increased for production so further personal customization can be had.

Bodies: Right now they are alloy. Again, custom and super strong, even for their thin profile. Because we used IGUS bushings instead of ball or roller bearings we have more room to maneuver in axle and body design. With the attached flats the pedals are only 17mm. The flats are also keyed into the body to further increase structural integrity of the entire system.

Flats: Slight concave on two different axes so a rider will always be able to feel the center of the pedal. Not too much concavity, hopefully. We will be offering some different sizes as well so the rider can customize this aspect as well. The main purpose of using the material we used for this application was b/c it’s pretty ideal for absorbing impacts. Any amount of force absorbed by the equipment means it’s not going to the rider – it can’t be a bad thing.

Colors: The whole color option aspect is simply a bonus to working with the polycarbonate material. Why does ANY company offer colors in their lineup? Why have four color options in the Toyota pickup you just bought? Because the customers demand it. Believe me, it would be much easier for us to just offer one color. Riders seem more concerned these days with whether or not the product will be offered in their favorite flavor before they consider anything else. The Colorways program exists b/c we want to give customers options they demand, but having the resources to offer all options at once is not possible which is why they are produced in limited runs. The Colorways products are more expensive to manufacture and we could probably get away with charging much more for the Colorways product than we do. It’s the same retail price as a standard retention system. It’s hard enough work for a customer to get a hold of one sometimes, we’re not gonna dump salt on the wound as well. Hey, if you are willing to put forth the extra effort to get one then you more than deserve to be treated fairly.

Bearings: We decided to use IGUS bushing, some of the best in the world. A bushing like this can handle the stress loads a pedal deals with much better than a roller or ball system and offer far more room to design axles and bodies around. Plus, with no outboard bearing that can explode we’ve been able to design in a feature that will keep the body from separating with the spindle unless taken apart (which is easier as cake). Not that all other designs have this potential, but we know it happens. The spin control feature does two things. 1. It allows riders to adjust for no spin on crank flips, etc. 2. It allows a rider to adjust out any lateral play along the pedal axis for the lifespan of the bearings. Again, can’t be such a bad thing.

Seals: One of the prime reasons a bearing of any sort breaks down is because of contamination. There are custom seals doubled up to keep this from happening. Not your typical o-ring or tapered seal. They’ve worked perfectly so far in testing.

Pricing: Of course this is all prototype work, but we’ve had some time on these and things are looking good. Pricing of the Staccato 8’s will be competitive to popular models out today. “Boutique” is not what we’re looking for.

Again, you may think some of the points listed don’t need to be revisited by pedal manufacturers, and if the pedal brand/model that works for you is what you’ll stick with then great. Ride what works for you – that’s all that really matters. Just remember that maybe some of what we’ve decided to improve upon in our approach may just light a fire under the ass of your favorite company and they’ll come out with something even better next year.

Ride on.

[Couch_Surfer]

Originally Posted by Jonas

Maybe we can start another thread on it? Might help for readers in the future looking for some info on the subject.
I don't want to hijack this one, but certainly want to hear the feedback.
Otherwise, feel free to give us a buzz.

Good call - and again, big props on responding to the forums. I like my DRS

[Dean W]

Well put Jonas. I can't wait to get a pair.

[PUNKY]

Originally Posted by mattj

group hug!


-m

reach around?

[schoenrock]

i'm gonna buy a set of those plastic pedals just to piss mattj off.

i can't wait!