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Old 12-11-2002, 07:16 PM   #1
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Building for a wider range of riders

I have a question, possibly a proposal, about trailbuilding techniques..

Now I'm an intermediate level rider. My technical skills are up to par with most expert level riders, but my lack of confidence and balls holds me down. I will admit, bigger drops frighten me. Any section of trail with above normal consequence scare me.

It seems to me, to make a trail fully rollable without taking away from the fun for the advanced riders is not too difficult. Just because there's a steep ladder down a drop doesnt mean you can't still huck it. A ladder across the top of a double doesn't mean you can't still hit it.

It also makes the trails a heck of a lot safer, especially to those not too familiar with them. And possibly most important of all.. It allows riders who don't have the guts or skill to ride these sections, to try them without the consequence of not having these safeguards..

Just something to remember when building your trails... I'm certainly NOT trying to suggest making trails easier, just try to build your stuff so people can not just ride them, but progress on them too. Isn't that what it's all about? We are all learning, at different levels..
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Old 12-11-2002, 07:53 PM   #2
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Re: Building for a wider range of riders

Quote:
Originally posted by LostBoyScout
I have a question, possibly a proposal, about trailbuilding techniques..

Now I'm an intermediate level rider. My technical skills are up to par with most expert level riders, but my lack of confidence and balls holds me down. I will admit, bigger drops frighten me. Any section of trail with above normal consequence scare me.

It seems to me, to make a trail fully rollable without taking away from the fun for the advanced riders is not too difficult. Just because there's a steep ladder down a drop doesnt mean you can't still huck it. A ladder across the top of a double doesn't mean you can't still hit it.

It also makes the trails a heck of a lot safer, especially to those not too familiar with them. And possibly most important of all.. It allows riders who don't have the guts or skill to ride these sections, to try them without the consequence of not having these safeguards..



Just something to remember when building your trails... I'm certainly NOT trying to suggest making trails easier, just try to build your stuff so people can not just ride them, but progress on them too. Isn't that what it's all about? We are all learning, at different levels..
MOst trails already have alternates, and in fact a few have well built challenging alternates as well. I think the problem is precisely the opposite at this time. I'm not sure of the root of the problem, but it seems that the truly challenging lines are rapidly disappearing on the North Shore. Every time I ride it seems, the line that you have to think ahead for (tight spaces, off camber turns, difficult roots or rocks) are being paved into mindless side walks. Whatever happened to learning. Have tyhe big bikes paved the way to paved trails?
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Old 12-11-2002, 08:13 PM   #3
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I do agree the opposite happens too. Expert level trails should ONLY be worked on by expert level riders, for sure.

I guess it's more in dirtjump type situations that my post is more relevant. But also I find a lot of ladder sections only have a drop at the end and I think having a ladder down is better. Yeah I admit my post seemed like it doesn't happen and I agree that most do have such
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Old 12-11-2002, 08:30 PM   #4
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Even those of us who can ride don't want to ride it all the time. Maybe its just me. (ie: LEAVE NED'S ALONE!!)
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Old 12-11-2002, 08:51 PM   #5
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I think the philosophy that ALL trails are for ALL people is a slippery slope. The diving board drop is just that, a diving board. To expect builders of trails to adapt their vision to riders below the level of the trail only encourages them to hit trails above their ability level. In most cases what makes a trail double black is not necessarily the stunts or construction, but the terrain. To encourage riders of lesser ability to ride double black trails by dumbing down the stunts will only cause more problems. I'm with you on gaps, I don't believe in them, especially in inaccessable areas like we ride in. I feel that there should only be tables on the mountain, but many will disagree...
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Old 12-11-2002, 09:31 PM   #6
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You're taking my points much more extreme that I meant them - I completely agree with what you say! I guess I just see a gap between easy and hard - there's not a lot of 1.5-3 foot drops, and especially not many fun ladder sections that DON'T have a big drop at the end n stuff

It might just be that my skills are lopsided too!
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Old 12-11-2002, 10:36 PM   #7
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I'm building intermediate level stunts on Pangor. (There will be some sick sh*t as well, but it will all be optional)
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Old 12-11-2002, 11:05 PM   #8
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Re: Re: Building for a wider range of riders

Quote:
Originally posted by Ah-Choo
MOst trails already have alternates, and in fact a few have well built challenging alternates as well. I think the problem is precisely the opposite at this time. I'm not sure of the root of the problem, but it seems that the truly challenging lines are rapidly disappearing on the North Shore. Every time I ride it seems, the line that you have to think ahead for (tight spaces, off camber turns, difficult roots or rocks) are being paved into mindless side walks. Whatever happened to learning. Have tyhe big bikes paved the way to paved trails?
I think you are just getting that much better
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Old 12-12-2002, 12:20 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by gimped
Even those of us who can ride don't want to ride it all the time. Maybe its just me. (ie: LEAVE NED'S ALONE!!)
I will relay a message from our good friend John, here is what he has to say:

Um, So you want me to leave logs with no rungs and not make safer routes around the tehcnical areas to help the not so good riders? I have been workin on important stuff, new down ramp to aid riders that were falling off it. I have seen 4 people fall off that steep downramp on the section I was workin on. I am helping to improve the trail, if you cannpt see that go eat shit asshole, I don't see you coming from coquitlam to work on the shores trails.
More will be fixed this weekend and then Iwill work on rock work and other ladder issues up top, want to make a sugestion why I should leave neds alone? Or do you want to shut the fuck up and be happy I maintain a trail for hundreds of riders a week.
In closing, Shut up, "Even those of us who can ride don't want to ride it all the time". Next time think before you say something. I'll be up there Sat and Sunday this weekend, come by and I'll be sure to give you more of my mind.
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Old 12-12-2002, 12:24 AM   #10
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LostBoyScout has some really good points. I feel the same when I am riding. It's true that you in order to get BETTER you have to go BIGGER, but going bigger can mean injury, and that doesn't make you better. A trail should be forgiving for your first ride on it, but then you can ride in the next day/week and go bigger.
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Old 12-12-2002, 12:47 AM   #12
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While I applaud those who do any work at all, I still side with the guy who says leave Neds alone. Neds has always been a beginner trail, and should always be one. While John works diligently to build more ladders, the trail surface itself has eroded to the point that it is little more than a small canyon.

There is a serious shortage of beginner trails, and an even worse shortage of people willing to build and maintain them. Trails like Pangor and Neds have always been traditionally beginner trails, and I really think that they should remain that way. The problem is that nobody wants to be the one to do it. Every trail seems to need a signature move, and we've all gotten caught up in building stunts. When will it be cool just to shovel dirt?

I've gotten caught up in the new stunt parade, and am probably the worst offender...its like smoking, not good for you but you just can't stop...

anyone got a smoke?
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Old 12-12-2002, 01:13 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ah-Choo
While I applaud those who do any work at all, I still side with the guy who says leave Neds alone. Neds has always been a beginner trail, and should always be one. While John works diligently to build more ladders, the trail surface itself has eroded to the point that it is little more than a small canyon.

There is a serious shortage of beginner trails, and an even worse shortage of people willing to build and maintain them. Trails like Pangor and Neds have always been traditionally beginner trails, and I really think that they should remain that way. The problem is that nobody wants to be the one to do it. Every trail seems to need a signature move, and we've all gotten caught up in building stunts. When will it be cool just to shovel dirt?

I've gotten caught up in the new stunt parade, and am probably the worst offender...its like smoking, not good for you but you just can't stop...

anyone got a smoke?
I talk to john on MSN quite a bit and he has in fact been doing some work,or is planning on doing some work on the trail such as rocking it and whatnot.



as for the original topic of this thread...i agree with you in full...I am not a big hucker,but instead prefer to roll smooth downramps.i hate coming to the end of a bridge just to be faced with a drop that i cant do.Sure,say what you want:..."get better and do the bigger hucks", but i just dont see why we cant just throw a little downramp in there to smooth things out for everyone.
I agree with a-choo...there are alot of alternate lines that are being made that are challenging,but i like to be able to ride a bif peice of sky-bridge then roll a nice downramp off of it,not just have to stick to the traill and skip the bridge because i cant ride the last 1 foot of it!
Also,i really think that youre point of people getting caught up in building only stunts is really a valid one...it DOES seem that way.
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Old 12-12-2002, 01:18 AM   #14
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If anyone has ridden Flywheel on Burke Mountain you can see what happens when people just build bridges to solve problems, but the bridges are crappy and the trail is eroded and full of puddles. I want to fix that..
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Old 12-12-2002, 01:18 AM   #15
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I think you have lost the point. John is fixing all the stuff that needs repair. He is not building "Pildriver" type drops everywhere...
The work that John has done on Ned's was MUCH NEEDED. He fixed the ladder going down the Logride so BEGINNERS wouldn't eat it going down and breaking rungs (Which happened to my friend).
Neds Is still a beginner trail. I enjoy honing my skills on it. There is nothing on the trail that is dificult to the point that you would injure yourself largely trying it.
John on the other hand has made the Ramps (For the easy ride arounds) safer and more accessible to the beginner riders. He is also fixing the stuff that is worn for the more advanced riders (ie Trannies and Bridges) Not once has he said anything about building expert only stunts.
I agree that neds is getting beat, but that trail sees more volume than most combined. The trail is still hella fun and more than an easy ride... Lighten up, if you don't want Neds touched, then maybe you should take over fixing it. John went out of his way to fix up a trail that was getting beat, and one that hundreds of riders enjoy weekly. The LEAST you could do would be to apprecitate that fact and give him props. If you want to make suggestions for building be POLITE and helpfull.

I for one applaud John for all his hard work and will be stopping on the weekend to give him a hand and share some Bubba with him.
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