I should have been killed at that time.

[chupacabra]

Originally Posted by enduramil

There is no cure. All one can do is take the required meds to help you handle living with this condition.

This whole sordid tale ignores the huge problem here. That problem is this... the individual feels good taking the meds and has everything handled. Because of this they stop taking the meds and regress.

This is exactly how I feel on the subject. I have a friend that is manic and he has done this 3 times. He hasn't proven to be dangerous but he is totally delusional and the first time he lost his shit he was telling people that I was a vampire so I wouldn't want to be near him when he loses it again. The last time he lost it a few of my buddies went to his place to take him to the hospital (it's in the middle of nowhere) and when they got there his truck was in the driveway, his door was open and there was a open box of shot gun shells on his kitchen table. They decided to go out in the bush and risk getting shot and found him wet and naked burning his clothes by the beach (no gun). When he got better they told him that was the last time they risk it.

So if a friend that has not even hurt anyone scares me because I know he might stop taking his meds, then a guy that decapitated and ate someone definitively should not be set free IMO.

[Kram]

He lost me at "bible study".

[go-t]

Let me clarify my somewhat open ended position. There are degrees of rehabilitation, it's my belief that Li can at least come to grips (and he appears to have done so) with what he's done. I don't think that means that he should be released - I don't ever think he should be released. He needs the help of a good mental hospital in order to not slip, eventually he could be allowed to volunteer at a community organization somewhere, or work outside of the hospital... but that should always be home so that he can be properly supervised and we can ensure that his medication is taken.

[Buster Bluth]

But what if he's right about the aliens? Shouldn't we have him at the ready? He's bloody good with a knife!

[enduramil]

Originally Posted by go-t

Let me clarify my somewhat open ended position. There are degrees of rehabilitation, it's my belief that Li can at least come to grips (and he appears to have done so) with what he's done. I don't think that means that he should be released - I don't ever think he should be released. He needs the help of a good mental hospital in order to not slip, eventually he could be allowed to volunteer at a community organization somewhere, or work outside of the hospital... but that should always be home so that he can be properly supervised and we can ensure that his medication is taken.

The problem I have with the closing of most mental institutions in the 80's was removing of needed facilities. part of the reason is 800 pound gorilla in the corner there that no one outside Quebec wants to do...pay more taxes. We want to pay less.

But the other reason in all the emotion and fear mongering about mental institutions is simply the need. For now things are okay for people who are like this and famiuly take care of it. What happens when it gets worse, family dies off and have none, or like my Aunt in Law who's husband is 75.? As people get oolder we know the human brain starts to degenerate some what. How will this effect Schizophrenia? Does it make it worse? These are hard questions we need to start facing as a large percentage of our population ages. It's easy to say they are better off cared by family but the reality is at a certain point family can't cope with it any more and options are needed.

[biggles604]

I had an interesting lunchtime discussion about this today, and nearly everyone seems to think that Vince Li is guilty of a criminal charge. I take the stance that mental illness is serious, and suppressed in society, when it should be talked about openly and with respect like any other illness. I think it's unfortunate that Vince got to the point that he did, and I believe that if we collectively talk about things like schizophrenia, and there are open avenues to seek out counselling or treatment, then perhaps he would have recognised that something was wrong earlier on and looked for treatment. Instead, we are programmed to suppress the problems else we get labelled as crazy or faking it.
Making it worse is the stigma that mental institutions are for totally insane people and some of the stories that surround them only promote fear, meaning no one wants them around.

[enduramil]

Originally Posted by biggles604

Making it worse is the stigma that mental institutions are for totally insane people and some of the stories that surround them only promote fear, meaning no one wants them around.

This is the problem.

We need to accept the fact that for some people that the best option for them is to be in some kind of facility. Not because they are listening to 25 voices in their heads. But because circumstances .. like their parents are 75 and will die soon. It is better they live out the rest of their lives some place where they are cared for instead of left alone to their own demons.

[XXX_er]

there is a difference between insane and criminaly insane

if you took the wrong door at Riverview you would meet an insane person but they were all pretty harmless OTHERWISE they would have been at the colony farm where the public doesnt get to open a wrong door ... the patients were locked up

[enduramil]

Originally Posted by XXX_er

there is a difference between insane and criminaly insane

if you took the wrong door at Riverview you would meet an insane person but they were all pretty harmless OTHERWISE they would have been at the colony farm where the public doesnt get to open a wrong door ... the patients were locked up

The problem here is the reality that people will get up in arms about the closing of a criminal facility... even if the patients are simply transfered to another location. But don't give a shit about all the rest living under the Georgia Viaduct because they have no where to go.

[Adam West]

Originally Posted by biggles604

Making it worse is the stigma that mental institutions are for totally insane people and some of the stories that surround them only promote fear, meaning no one wants them around.

I've seen hellraiser 2

[DirtySanchez]

Originally Posted by enduramil

This is the problem.

We need to accept the fact that for some people that the best option for them is to be in some kind of facility. Not because they are listening to 25 voices in their heads. But because circumstances .. like their parents are 75 and will die soon. It is better they live out the rest of their lives some place where they are cared for instead of left alone to their own demons.

Agreed 100%

Originally Posted by XXX_er

there is a difference between insane and criminaly insane

I agree, but what's your point? What is the difference other than the consequence that led to their being labelled either or? It's only a degree of severity is it not? So this means the potential is there with some insane people; to those labelled criminally insane, it was just a shift along a plausible time line.

Bottom line is, being "universal" in our existence as humans [meaning we can communicate and grasp and understand neural symbolism greater than any other known species]; we try to protect, house, facilitate, mitigate and protect-society-from these examples. Below our superiority of species, Darwinism would have seen it that these examples would naturally atrophy from the societal, and potentially, gene pools. Look at any other species' lineage, and those that are psychologically unfit - die or get killed. Now, I'm not saying this is the route to take - obviously - but this is where the conundrum exists as to what do we do as a humankind with these examples of citizens(?). Insane or criminally insane, the difference is often only a matter of time or circumstance - or both.

There are no answers as we're still evolving as a growingly dense society/world civilization. Parameters shift, stresses and stimuli are always changing and in turn, so do we at the collective and independent level. We'll never completely eradicate mental and psychological aberrations and their implicit vagaries. We need to figure it out on the fly.

And during this figuring it out on the fly, are we humane or detached and clinical? Choice is ours.

DS

[enduramil]

Originally Posted by Adam West

I've seen hellraiser 2

No, that's what your parents called you.

[XXX_er]

Originally Posted by DirtySanchez

Agreed 100%

I agree, but what's your point? What is the difference other than the consequence that led to their being labelled either or? It's only a degree of severity is it not? So this means the potential is there with some insane people; to those labelled criminally insane, it was just a shift along a plausible time line.

what happens after a patient gets into the system "Insane " is different than "violent and insane" because violent and insane used to get you locked up

At river view I would be working on HW and it would hear over the 2way radio that a patient was on the move on the grounds which were not gated or fenced but at colony farm that didnt happen cuz the place was locked down

[jitenshakun]

Originally Posted by Adam West

I've seen hellraiser 2

I've seen it two.

[enduramil]

The reality is that the current situation will continue until the dayour elected officials have the personally effect them. All joking aside do not think for one second if PM Harpers son started to show a mental illness there wwould not be a change in how this was funded.