Armstrong stripped of titles (Merged Lance threads)

[walleater]

Originally Posted by Uncle Duke

they are all doped going waaaaay back.

Yep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Simpson

But on a more light hearted note, I love this:

[CraigH]

Originally Posted by switch

Tyler Hamilton was on Anderson Cooper. Interesting.

Long interview but helps with the context of what was going on.

[Lady Gravity]

if they all dope, then the playing field is level. so what's the problem?

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Lady Gravity

if they all dope, then the playing field is level. so what's the problem?

They start dying.

[Tom]

It's not a level playing field. Not everyone responds the same way to blood doping. If you have a naturally low hematocrit level (like lance) you will gain more advantage from doping than someone with a naturally higher level. And if you can afford to hire the preeminent doping doctor in the world, and pay him enough to keep him from working with other cyclists it's not level. And if you're able to bribe the governing body of cycling it's not level either.

[Tom]

Former WADA head says UCI was in on it:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...redible_261380

[switch]

What a mess.

If UCI is complicit, what will be done? Can they just write this all off, or is there some other body that can bring charges or fines or something?

I read the first 30 or 40 pages of the USADA report, and it has people commenting on how Lance was ecstatic about his levels were. I would think that if he was tested as much as he apparently was, there would have had to be some indicating high levels of hematocrit.

On a side note - feel bad for Ryder just losing out on the final stage of the Beijing race.

[tungsten]

1978

• Michel Pollentier of Belgium was caught trying to cheat the drugs control with someone else's urine in a rubber bulb in his shorts after victory at Alpe d'Huez. He was ejected from the Tour. Ironically his own urine tested negative

[PaulB]

Originally Posted by switch

I read the first 30 or 40 pages of the USADA report, and it has people commenting on how Lance was ecstatic about his levels were. I would think that if he was tested as much as he apparently was, there would have had to be some indicating high levels of hematocrit.

As I understand it, as long as his levels were below 50% on testing days, he would pass. In once instance, the rest of the team all lined up for testing before him so he could complete a saline IV infusion (which was brought in to the hotel right past the testing crew) to dilute his blood.

This is what I think gives some insight into the way LA thinks, from Vaughters affadvait:

Early on at a Postal Service training camp I had a conversation with Lance in which he told me that the UCI should have detected a high level of HCG in his doping controls when he had cancer but had failed to do so. Thus, in Lance's eyes the UCI was somewhat at fault for the extent of his cancer. In any case Lance said, "if I ever have a doping problem, I have this card to play."

[KenN]

Originally Posted by Lady Gravity

if they all dope, then the playing field is level. so what's the problem?

The team with the biggest budget gets the newest, bestest drugs and has the means to hide them from detection. It's no longer a "best man wins" competition, but a technology race to the bottom. The win is purchased.

In the pre-salary cap NHL, fans complained when the teams with biggest budgets could stack their roster with top players ... just before the trade deadline. Nobody wants to watch a contest where the winner is predetermined.


Kn.

[Tmack]

Someone should test Aaron Gwin

[FlipFantasia]

a great comment from this article... http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderre...g-_-after-fire

that photo 'connections' flow chart we were talking about earlier in the thread has Amgen content.......

Posted by: Johnny Chicago October 12th, 2012 at 9:46 pm
The underreported aspect of this story is the prevalence of EPO…which, of course, is manufactured by the largest non-cycling sponsor of pro cycling in the United States — Amgen, of Amgen Tour of California fame.
Surely I’m not the only person who finds it not a coincidence that Lance Armstrong was a widespread user (and, in fact, a pusher) of Amgen’s EPO while the company was simultaneously supporting Armstrong, Livestrong, and cycling in general.
I hope aggressive reporters like Joe Lindsey have the wherewithal, and the support of their independent publishing companies, to investigate Amgen’s involvement in cycling, and I hope fans work tirelessly to remove the company from the sport.

[PaulB]

Originally Posted by KenN

The team with the biggest budget gets the newest, bestest drugs and has the means to hide them from detection. It's no longer a "best man wins" competition, but a technology race to the bottom. The win is purchased

It may not even just be the doctors and dope that made a difference. From Tyler Hamilton's interview with Cycling:

If you have money, you have knowledge, like good doctors, and you have the equipment … it’s crazy to talk that a plane can win the tour, but you don’t have to worry about sneaking a (blood) bag into France on a private plane—I don’t know that for a fact but I have heard it.

[clarklewis]

Saw lance in an airport once. If it happens again I'll punch him square in the nut.

[Buster Bluth]

Originally Posted by clarklewis

Saw lance in an airport once. If it happens again I'll punch him square in the nut.

I'd rep you but that might be bad karma as you're mocking a cancer survivor. Ah hell, I'll rep you because I chortled hard.