Armstrong stripped of titles (Merged Lance threads) - Page 13

switch · 10-11-2012, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

- he tested positive for corticosteroids in the 99 tour - which was covered up by an illegally backdated therapeutic use exemption
- no test for epo until 2000 or 2001
- no test for homologous blood transfusion (someone else's blood) until ???
- still no real test for autologous blood transfusion
- UCI coverups (tour de Suisse 2001 epo)
- the testing is a joke and the cheaters are way ahead of it

I thought he was tested countless times, and that EPO and homologous transfusion testing has been performed since 2000?

Tom · 10-11-2012, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by switch

I thought he was tested countless times, and that EPO and homologous transfusion testing has been performed since 2000?

USADA has tested Armstrong's blood less than sixty times. Far less times than they have tested Hincapie's blood with no positives and he is an admitted doper.
UCI has taken around 200 blood draws. Many of those blood draws are just for values, like hematocrit levels. They weren't actually looking for a banned substance. That doesn't add up to the 500-600 times the Lance camp claims.

I know you were looking for Coles notes...but read the report. It's fascinating.

Tom · 10-11-2012, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by switch

One of the years Armstrong won, they'd have to down to 8th place to find a rider who's not been nailed.

It is my opinion that those years should be left blank. That's no reason to sweep it under the rug.

patrolskid · 10-11-2012, 05:28 PM

well , as probably one of the last guys to believe lance was clean this latest round of confessors comes as a minor shock .

in the back of my mind i guess i knew it was possible , but i wanted to believe that the guy who had looked death right in the face somehow had what it took to go to another level of suffering to win bike races . seems ignorant now , to think that he could beat the best in the world seven times without using the same pharmaceutical advantages they were using against him .

still , when i think back to that string of victories , the doping / cheating aspect does not take away from the fact that there was some great racing going on .there were lots of great dramas and sport legends created that won't be diminished by time or these new revelations .

despite lances' claims of innocence , i never watched it cheering lance vs the cheaters and now that it comes out he was doping , maybe the playing field was level after all

Oldfart · 10-11-2012, 05:39 PM

Fair enough. All were likely doping but that doesn't mean level playing field because drugs work differently for different people. Some get a boost some don't. Personally I believed LA was on the sauce for a while. But I also saw someone who worked harder and smarter than the competition and someone with a real personality defect where he had to win at all costs. More important to me is what will be the fallout with UCI? How complicit were they in letting the big names get away with shit while penalizing lesser riders?

patrolskid · 10-11-2012, 06:09 PM

i agree 'fart , he prolly was juicing for a while , but like you said , he brought a whole new level of training to the sport , like training rides on the big hills of the tour , multiple times in a day !

as well , the tech team behind USPS were able to build his team mechanical advantages that other teams didn't have access to even research , let alone create .

sure i'm disappointed , and i'd sure like to see him 'fess up ( not holding breath on that one ) but in the end he'll probably be remembered as a cheater who beat the other cheaters , seven times .

all the cover up , who knew what and when stuff still doesn't take away from the great racing that went down .

Dude · 10-11-2012, 06:32 PM

I'm of the mind that they were all on the program...if you weren't, you were either suffering at the back, or racing semi pro in the US and Canada.

None of this diminishes it for me because I always felt they were on it.

That being said, do they now go "fix a wrong" and give Floyd Landis back his 2006 title?

We have now entered the slippery slope...

Buster Bluth · 10-11-2012, 06:57 PM

Maybe he needs the drugs to treat the STD's he got from Cheryl Crow.

icebreaker · 10-11-2012, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrolskid

i agree 'fart , he prolly was juicing for a while , but like you said , he brought a whole new level of training to the sport , like training rides on the big hills of the tour , multiple times in a day !

as well , the tech team behind USPS were able to build his team mechanical advantages that other teams didn't have access to even research , let alone create .

sure i'm disappointed , and i'd sure like to see him 'fess up ( not holding breath on that one ) but in the end he'll probably be remembered as a cheater who beat the other cheaters , seven times .

all the cover up , who knew what and when stuff still doesn't take away from the great racing that went down .

It was in fact the most fatally boring racing the Tour de France has ever seen.

CraigH · 10-11-2012, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

I know you were looking for Coles notes...but read the report. It's fascinating.

Coles notes version from the NY Times:

How Lance Armstrong Beat Cycling’s Drug Tests - NYTimes.com
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/12/sp...pagewanted=all

Dirk · 10-11-2012, 09:01 PM

I keep hearing from non cyclists things like "why does it matter if they were all doping" or "why aren't they allowed to dope." The problem with Lance Armstrong wasn't just the doping, it's the near-criminal (maybe criminal) attempt to cover things up and destroy lives in the process. I remember watching the 2004 Tour when he wouldn't let Simeoni go in the break and I was overcome with powerful pangs of hatred for Lance Armstrong. Read this article. He's a bad, bad, bad person. I hope worse things start to happen to him.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...idation_256702

As well, here is my vow. I will never spend a dollar on any Trek, Oakley or Nike product while they continue to support or affiliate with this guy. I know. Big deal.

Lance Armstrong is a piece of shit.

Buster Bluth · 10-11-2012, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk

I will never spend a dollar on any Trek, Oakley or Nike product while they continue to support or affiliate with this guy. I know. Big deal.

It is a big deal. More people should do this. I avoid certain products for much lamer reasons. I'm with you on the say no to Pharmstrong thing.

Buster Bluth · 10-11-2012, 09:57 PM

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...omments_237006

I think it may be time to put Liggett out to the same pasture Murray Walker is grazing in now.

shirk · 10-11-2012, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icebreaker

For anyone who may be interested, the material is here:

http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org

The file referred to as the Reasoned Decision, is in fact the summary for the public ( a cynic would say that by releasing the summary they ensure the UCI cannot bury it) - the summary is 202 pages.

All of the supporting affidavits and exhibits are in the next tab.

There are 628 separate files available for download. A lot of reading, though some of it is in Spanish and Italian.

Just read Barry's affidavit. Interesting stuff, will read more when I have time.

CraigH · 10-12-2012, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster Bluth

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...omments_237006

I think it may be time to put Liggett out to the same pasture Murray Walker is grazing in now.

That article was from Aug. 30th...

10-11-2012, 05:39 PM	#185
Oldfart Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Whistler Posts: 4,424 Rep Power: 3542253	Fair enough. All were likely doping but that doesn't mean level playing field because drugs work differently for different people. Some get a boost some don't. Personally I believed LA was on the sauce for a while. But I also saw someone who worked harder and smarter than the competition and someone with a real personality defect where he had to win at all costs. More important to me is what will be the fallout with UCI? How complicit were they in letting the big names get away with shit while penalizing lesser riders? __________________ Debate? Bikes are made for riding not pushing.

10-11-2012, 06:32 PM	#187
Dude Finding my baseball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Langley Posts: 2,497 Rep Power: 734171	I'm of the mind that they were all on the program...if you weren't, you were either suffering at the back, or racing semi pro in the US and Canada. None of this diminishes it for me because I always felt they were on it. That being said, do they now go "fix a wrong" and give Floyd Landis back his 2006 title? We have now entered the slippery slope... __________________ ***Disclaimer: this post is in no way, shape, or form intended to insult anybody, anything, any animal, any lifeform, or non lifeform, or otherwise, of any kind.

10-11-2012, 06:57 PM	#188
Buster Bluth ANUSTART Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 4,158 Rep Power: 6114700	Maybe he needs the drugs to treat the STD's he got from Cheryl Crow. __________________ Hey brother.

10-11-2012, 09:57 PM	#193
Buster Bluth ANUSTART Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 4,158 Rep Power: 6114700	http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...omments_237006 I think it may be time to put Liggett out to the same pasture Murray Walker is grazing in now. __________________ Hey brother.

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10-11-2012, 05:28 PM	#184
patrolskid Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,506 Rep Power: 3266823	well , as probably one of the last guys to believe lance was clean this latest round of confessors comes as a minor shock . in the back of my mind i guess i knew it was possible , but i wanted to believe that the guy who had looked death right in the face somehow had what it took to go to another level of suffering to win bike races . seems ignorant now , to think that he could beat the best in the world seven times without using the same pharmaceutical advantages they were using against him . still , when i think back to that string of victories , the doping / cheating aspect does not take away from the fact that there was some great racing going on .there were lots of great dramas and sport legends created that won't be diminished by time or these new revelations . despite lances' claims of innocence , i never watched it cheering lance vs the cheaters and now that it comes out he was doping , maybe the playing field was level after all

10-11-2012, 06:09 PM	#186
patrolskid Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,506 Rep Power: 3266823	i agree 'fart , he prolly was juicing for a while , but like you said , he brought a whole new level of training to the sport , like training rides on the big hills of the tour , multiple times in a day ! as well , the tech team behind USPS were able to build his team mechanical advantages that other teams didn't have access to even research , let alone create . sure i'm disappointed , and i'd sure like to see him 'fess up ( not holding breath on that one ) but in the end he'll probably be remembered as a cheater who beat the other cheaters , seven times . all the cover up , who knew what and when stuff still doesn't take away from the great racing that went down .

10-11-2012, 09:01 PM	#191
Dirk Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Kits Posts: 264 Rep Power: 726579	I keep hearing from non cyclists things like "why does it matter if they were all doping" or "why aren't they allowed to dope." The problem with Lance Armstrong wasn't just the doping, it's the near-criminal (maybe criminal) attempt to cover things up and destroy lives in the process. I remember watching the 2004 Tour when he wouldn't let Simeoni go in the break and I was overcome with powerful pangs of hatred for Lance Armstrong. Read this article. He's a bad, bad, bad person. I hope worse things start to happen to him. http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...idation_256702 As well, here is my vow. I will never spend a dollar on any Trek, Oakley or Nike product while they continue to support or affiliate with this guy. I know. Big deal. Lance Armstrong is a piece of shit.

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