Armstrong stripped of titles (Merged Lance threads) - Page 11

enduramil · 09-01-2012, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlipFantasia

dude, what the f*ck do you think Armstrong's been doing? Cheat, use winning to build up oneself, surround with adoring cancer surviving folks, get them to build your persona, which you then massively profit from. HE IS A FUCKING FRAUD, he's blatantly deceiving people and profitting from it, jesus christ, I mean I'm cynical, but you take it to a whole new level!

Dude... of course it's about the money. If it wasn't Pitbull Bryant wouldn't have written 28 seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlipFantasia

Is clean sport really that much of a pipe dream? .

Yes it is. It's been a mess for decades in most sports. All we really see is damage control to keep it under control. If it's not drugs it's screwing over about other stuff.

Let's look at Alpine skiing, specifically the beginning of the Crazy Canucks era.. early 70's. We used to be misled that we where being given the best skiis. Bull shit, we got B Grade skiis while the Euro's got the actaull race version. No one knew till a Euro made a slip up to one of the guy's. Unlevel playing field? You bet your natural white arse.

Drugs, equipment, and whatever else can be manipulated to win... it will be done. Reality is you would have a better chance of finding clean sport at a Twoonie race then at this level.

Tom · 09-01-2012, 08:46 AM

Outside magazine's take on Hamilton's book:

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/media/books/Lance-Armstrong-Case-Closed.html?page=1

enduramil · 09-01-2012, 10:18 PM

Got this from a buddy. From Peter Twist... note the observation on human behavior.

Quote:

Not making it right nor how we encourage athletes to live clean and compete hard with integrity, Lance Armstrong did compete in an era where doping strategies to aid performance in his sport where the norm – at the top echelon a level playing field.

Beating advanced stage cancer, returning from the severe degradation to body structures and to brain, to not only live and not only regain function but to rise back up to be best in the world many years in a row, and at worst using the same strategies as his competitors, is a most remarkable accomplishment.

Others die. Or if able to survive they exist with diminished body structure, chronic depression and never return to full function and life engagement. This man crushed it all and rose to the top - then gave of himself to raise over $500M for cancer and inspired thousands to push harder to survive, recover, return, rebuild and engage fully in life.

Who we focus on hanging in society and why we are always anxious to tear down those who rise is a curious human nature.

It has been a given that the top cycling athletes of that generation were all competing on a level playing field – at least those in the running – that’s a known for years and an old story. You don’t win 7 years in a row totally clean, while competing against the very best thoroughbreds in the world who themselves had significant advantages of performance aids. Figure it out.

The analysis is who from that level playing field won. Who won many years in a row. Above his peers. Who illustrates the most amazing come back story ever. And who turned it all into serving the greater good.

The question of integrity is not doping in that era or the legitimacy of his accomplishments, it is the integrity to speak honestly to it today. That’s where character and authenticity can be demonstrated and the conversation honest, focussed on using influence and history to ensure the sport exists in a way today that permits athletes to train and compete to the top without jeopardizing their health.

Today is a new chapter where wide efforts focus on a clean level playing field that respects the health of athletes and permits each to train to be their best and compete with integrity. That is a better level playing field. That’s the conditions we want to graduate our young athletes into as we coach them and build their abilities to graduate towards the top. Once approaching the top, having the trust that the playing field is level will permit each to stay clean train hard and measure up athlete to athlete fairly.

Tom · 09-02-2012, 12:28 AM

Lol at "level playing field"

When you have tons of money behind you, access to drugs others don't (Hemassist, anyone?), are paying off the UCI, and tipping off the UCI in regards to your doping competitors, that's hardly a "level playing field".

That "500 million dollars for cancer" is bs too. I'd like to see numbers to explain that. Is that 500 million raised by the Lance Armstrong foundation (livestrong.org)? Or 500 million dollars at the for profit merchandising livestrong.com? If its 500 million raised by LAF...how much of that was spent on "cancer awareness"? How much was spent on flying lance around to functions where he charged livestrong and other cancer charities an appearance fee?

Tom · 09-02-2012, 04:31 AM

Quote:

The question of integrity is not doping in that era or the legitimacy of his accomplishments, it is the integrity to speak honestly to it today. That’s where character and authenticity can be demonstrated and the conversation honest, focussed on using influence and history to ensure the sport exists in a way today that permits athletes to train and compete to the top without jeopardizing their health.

Today is a new chapter where wide efforts focus on a clean level playing field that respects the health of athletes and permits each to train to be their best and compete with integrity. That is a better level playing field. That’s the conditions we want to graduate our young athletes into as we coach them and build their abilities to graduate towards the top. Once approaching the top, having the trust that the playing field is level will permit each to stay clean train hard and measure up athlete to athlete fairly.

You can't get to that without unmasking the stuff that is still being perpetrated in cycling by the players in the Armstrong saga and their business associates.

tungsten · 09-02-2012, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

That "500 million dollars for cancer" is bs too. I'd like to see numbers to explain that. Is that 500 million raised by the Lance Armstrong foundation (livestrong.org)? Or 500 million dollars at the for profit merchandising livestrong.com? If its 500 million raised by LAF...how much of that was spent on "cancer awareness"? How much was spent on flying lance around to functions where he charged livestrong and other cancer charities an appearance fee?

The devil is in the details.

icebreaker · 09-02-2012, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

Lol at "level playing field"

When you have tons of money behind you, access to drugs others don't (Hemassist, anyone?), are paying off the UCI, and tipping off the UCI in regards to your doping competitors, that's hardly a "level playing field".

That "500 million dollars for cancer" is bs too. I'd like to see numbers to explain that. Is that 500 million raised by the Lance Armstrong foundation (livestrong.org)? Or 500 million dollars at the for profit merchandising livestrong.com? If its 500 million raised by LAF...how much of that was spent on "cancer awareness"? How much was spent on flying lance around to functions where he charged livestrong and other cancer charities an appearance fee?

While on the subject, what the hell is "Cancer Awareness"? This has always bugged me. I think most people are aware of Cancer.

If that "$500 million" hadn't been re-directed away from actual research, would we be further ahead today?

Of course that wouldn't have allowed his Lanceness to travel in style in a jet paid for by gullible donors.

enduramil · 09-02-2012, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

Lol at "level playing field"

I believe that part is referring to them all doing it. Sounds familiar doesn't it? We all got upset with Ben Johnson thinking him taking it was cheating and making a unlevel playing field. Yet we where all shocked to learn that they all took the stuff.

Tom · 09-03-2012, 04:14 AM

The playing field was NOT level between USPS and the other dopers for the reasons I listed.

enduramil · 09-03-2012, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

The playing field was NOT level between USPS and the other dopers for the reasons I listed.

Nothing relevating there. Well to us North Americans when it comes to any aspect of sport. So the USPS took it to a whole new level is no surprise to me. Really it was only a matter of time before someone came along to organize it to that level.

Mattman · 10-10-2012, 08:34 PM

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/six-...ans-from-usada

Now what can Lance say??

KenN · 10-10-2012, 08:45 PM

CBC's version:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/cycling/sto...armstrong.html

Kn.

Duncan · 10-10-2012, 09:24 PM

I think the TDF should have "no winner" for the Lance years. Here is a list of the riders who finished runners up:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/cycling/sto...de-france.html

KenN · 10-10-2012, 10:27 PM

sigh

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...by-doping.html

Kn.

icebreaker · 10-10-2012, 10:39 PM

For anyone who may be interested, the material is here:

http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org

The file referred to as the Reasoned Decision, is in fact the summary for the public ( a cynic would say that by releasing the summary they ensure the UCI cannot bury it) - the summary is 202 pages.

All of the supporting affidavits and exhibits are in the next tab.

There are 628 separate files available for download. A lot of reading, though some of it is in Spanish and Italian.

10-10-2012, 08:45 PM	#162
KenN I'm with the pedalphiles Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: eNVy Posts: 12,459 Rep Power: 18916626	CBC's version: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/cycling/sto...armstrong.html Kn. __________________ When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion.

10-10-2012, 09:24 PM	#163
Duncan My name is not nousefora Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: ,Location,Location Posts: 3,914 Rep Power: 11231368	I think the TDF should have "no winner" for the Lance years. Here is a list of the riders who finished runners up: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/cycling/sto...de-france.html __________________ WHEN YOU'RE A MAN...SOMETIMES YOU WEAR STRETCHY PANTS...

10-10-2012, 10:27 PM	#164
KenN I'm with the pedalphiles Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: eNVy Posts: 12,459 Rep Power: 18916626	sigh http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...by-doping.html Kn. __________________ When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion.

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09-01-2012, 08:46 AM	#152
Tom Witch Hunter Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Red and Bear Posts: 6,949 Rep Power: 3022322	Outside magazine's take on Hamilton's book: http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/media/books/Lance-Armstrong-Case-Closed.html?page=1

09-02-2012, 12:28 AM	#154
Tom Witch Hunter Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Red and Bear Posts: 6,949 Rep Power: 3022322	Lol at "level playing field" When you have tons of money behind you, access to drugs others don't (Hemassist, anyone?), are paying off the UCI, and tipping off the UCI in regards to your doping competitors, that's hardly a "level playing field". That "500 million dollars for cancer" is bs too. I'd like to see numbers to explain that. Is that 500 million raised by the Lance Armstrong foundation (livestrong.org)? Or 500 million dollars at the for profit merchandising livestrong.com? If its 500 million raised by LAF...how much of that was spent on "cancer awareness"? How much was spent on flying lance around to functions where he charged livestrong and other cancer charities an appearance fee?

09-03-2012, 04:14 AM	#159
Tom Witch Hunter Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Red and Bear Posts: 6,949 Rep Power: 3022322	The playing field was NOT level between USPS and the other dopers for the reasons I listed.

10-10-2012, 08:34 PM	#161
Mattman Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: North Shore Posts: 209 Rep Power: 510370	http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/six-...ans-from-usada Now what can Lance say??

10-10-2012, 10:39 PM	#165
icebreaker Registered User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 168 Rep Power: 299682	For anyone who may be interested, the material is here: http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org The file referred to as the Reasoned Decision, is in fact the summary for the public ( a cynic would say that by releasing the summary they ensure the UCI cannot bury it) - the summary is 202 pages. All of the supporting affidavits and exhibits are in the next tab. There are 628 separate files available for download. A lot of reading, though some of it is in Spanish and Italian.