Armstrong stripped of titles (Merged Lance threads)

[Circlip]

Originally Posted by enduramil

Just a thought... if the USADA has such a slam dunk case as they are stating. Then why the hell do they need to ask Hincapie to be a witness? Aren't they pretty much judge, jury, and executioner?

No. Where did you get that crap? From one of Team LA's PR minions? The USADA arbitration panel (that Lance declined to participate in) would have had 3 panel members;

- 1 chosen by USADA
- 1 chosen by Armstrong
- 1 jointly chosen and agreed upon by USADA & Armstrong

Complete 50/50. If Lance believed that the evidence lacked substance in any way, it should have been easy for him to win the arbitration hearing.

He chose to fold.

[BJC]

Originally Posted by enduramil

Just a thought... if the USADA has such a slam dunk case as they are stating. Then why the hell do they need to ask Hincapie to be a witness? Aren't they pretty much judge, jury, and executioner?

That is what Armstrong's PR machine is promoting, but the reality of an arbitration is that both sides need to present evidence including witnesses if that is part of the case. The evidence would need to stand up to an appeal at CAS. So they may have a slam-dunk case that relies on witnesses.

Cheers Ben

[enduramil]

Originally Posted by Circlip

No. Where did you get that crap? From one of Team LA's PR minions? The USADA arbitration panel (that Lance declined to participate in) would have had 3 panel members;

- 1 chosen by USADA
- 1 chosen by Armstrong
- 1 jointly chosen and agreed upon by USADA & Armstrong

Complete 50/50. If Lance believed that the evidence lacked substance in any way, it should have been easy for him to win the arbitration hearing.

He chose to fold.

It is a legitimate question. While I know that pretty much the whole peleton is taking stuff. After all one doesn't ride that hard for 3 weeks fuelled only by food and tap water. One should also be asking questions of how USADA does it's processes as well. Buying into what they say as gospel hook line and sinker is not good either.

[nouseforaname]

Good reddit take on Lance VS USADA

[enduramil]

Let's face reality. Everyone here has their own opinion on this and position they hold in regards to Lance. And whether what he did is right or wrong. None of that will change nor fix Pro Cycling . But then again Pro Cycling is like watching IMH or Leadville 100 on ESPN. It's a spectacle and one none of us will ever get there... unless you have a TARDIS and the skills to adjust you mom and dad's DNA. So really we are sniping at each other over something that has nil effect on our actual enjoyment of riding bikes.

Now let us argue about more serious matters,

Does sexual position effect race day performance? is it a performance enhancer?

[Circlip]

Originally Posted by nouseforaname

Good reddit take on Lance VS USADA

Wow. I thought I was a bit preoccupied with Lance vs. USADA tidbits, but Nerdlinger takes it to an entirely new level.

[Circlip]

Originally Posted by enduramil

None of that will change nor fix Pro Cycling.

Maybe not, but it's a pretty good start. Go USADA.

If the Armtrong charges dovetail into some actionable items against the current UCI overlords as a result of their attempts to bury the USADA sanction, then we'll have something to talk about.

[enduramil]

Originally Posted by Circlip

Maybe not, but it's a pretty good start. Go USADA.

If the Armtrong charges dovetail into some actionable items against the current UCI overlords as a result of their attempts to bury the USADA sanction, then we'll have something to talk about.

Doubt it. Look at the Luge federation. 2 years later and nothing changed in their view of the incident at Whistler.

[FlipFantasia]

if you want more info, including LOTS of background on the whole thing, from the very beginning, head over to cyclingnews.....it's a full on data dump

good thread to start in...
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18295

[FlipFantasia]

the part that disgusts me the most about this, is that Lance engaged in a systemic doping program, he wasn't a participant, he was a leader and pusher, then he wrapped himself in the cancer cloak and used that to shield himself from the doping part of his life. he manipulated people in very vulnerable states of their life, to further his own career. yeah, he helped give people hope, by totally lying to them, it's despicable and he doesn't deserve any support.

[taprider]

Originally Posted by FlipFantasia

the part that disgusts me the most about this, is that Lance engaged in a systemic doping program, he wasn't a participant, he was a leader and pusher, then he wrapped himself in the cancer cloak and used that to shield himself from the doping part of his life. he manipulated people in very vulnerable states of their life, to further his own career. yeah, he helped give people hope, by totally lying to them, it's despicable and he doesn't deserve any support.

+1

[enduramil]

24 years ago we had the incident in Seoul... Ben Johnson. Then the Dubin inquiry which revealed what was already suspected. And that everyone was lying. Despite uproar and much hand wringing about change. It in the end hand nil effect to what IAAF tolerates and the athletes. It will be the same result here.

And we will still watch bike races regardless.

[BJC]

They should just get the CSI lab onto the case. Take some blood, put it in a few test tubes, place in the machine that goes "whizz" and hey presto, anything suspicious will show up in a printout and even on a humungous touch screen if required.

Cheers Ben

[Buster Bluth]

Originally Posted by enduramil

24 years ago we had the incident in Seoul... Ben Johnson. Then the Dubin inquiry which revealed what was already suspected. And that everyone was lying. Despite uproar and much hand wringing about change. It in the end hand nil effect to what IAAF tolerates and the athletes. It will be the same result here.

And we will still watch bike races regardless.

To this day Ben still insists that he didn't steal any stereos!

[Tom]

Originally Posted by enduramil

24 years ago we had the incident in Seoul... Ben Johnson. Then the Dubin inquiry which revealed what was already suspected. And that everyone was lying. Despite uproar and much hand wringing about change. It in the end hand nil effect to what IAAF tolerates and the athletes. It will be the same result here.

And we will still watch bike races regardless.

I don't think it's really the same thing. It's not simply a matter of "he doped but so did everybody else".

Several people involved in this conspiracy are still involved on the sport. Some, Such as mcquaid and verbruggen are running it. LA and his fans can call it a witch hunt all they want...he's not even the main target.

What I can't wrap my head around is that there are people out there who still believe he didn't dope.