PF30 question - Shimano HT2 crank installation

hampstead_bandit · 06-09-2012, 07:13 PM

been having ongoing problems, since day one...over 5 months now, with the crank and BB on my Stumpjumper Evo 29er hardtail (2012) which uses the PF30 BB standard and matching SRAM 1250-S (single ring) PF30 crank with E13 XCX seat tube mounted chain device

the problems have led me to want me to ditch the SRAM crankset for tried and tested Shimano HT2

was recommend to try the "Wheels Manufacturing" PF30 adapter for Shimano HT2 cranks by the UK distrib. of Wheels; this reduces the ID of the PF30 bearing to 24mm for HT2 axles.

got the adapters, they fitted fine into the PF30 bearings, but the Shimano SLX HT2 crank spacing is completely out of whack, and won't allow the chainring to sit far enough outboard to clear the backplate of the chain device

I tried spacing out the SLX cranks by introducing several 24mm ID shims between the Wheels adapter and the crank spider, but all this does is reduce the length of the HT2 axle on the non-driveside, to a level where installation would be dangerous due to lack of axle depth

has anyone tried putting HT2 cranks into a BB30 or PF30 bike? Any tips you can suggest? I tried ringing the UK Distrib. for both Wheels (Madison a.k.a. Shimano UK) and Specialized UK and both drew a blank.

the only thought I have had is to get Saint HT2 in 83mm so there is more axle depth to work with, but would ideally like to keep a perfectly working pair of SLX HT2 cranks if possible

JCL · 06-09-2012, 09:51 PM

Rob,

What about the press fit to BSA Sram adapter? That's what I run on the Demo with 83mm GXP Descendents.

http://www.hammerheadbikes.com/sram-...b-adapter-kit/

nouseforaname · 06-09-2012, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCL

Rob,

What about the press fit to BSA Sram adapter? That's what I run on the Demo with 83mm GXP Descendents.

http://www.hammerheadbikes.com/sram-...b-adapter-kit/

Sram cranks have a tapered axle, Shimano is 24mm on both sides.

IDK why the adapter that you have doesn't work.

DrewM · 06-10-2012, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCL

Rob,

What about the press fit to BSA Sram adapter? That's what I run on the Demo with 83mm GXP Descendents.

http://www.hammerheadbikes.com/sram-...b-adapter-kit/

My, personal, experience with these - plastic - adaptors is awful. They are, generally, not resuable and they tend to walk (walk = destroyed) when you press them in (yes, threading the BB cup in first as per the instructions) and they are ridiculously expensive for a piece of threaded plastic (threading your alloy BB into plastic?!)

-

I have also used a PF30 BB w/ the Wheels Manufacturing reducers. It worked fine but I found the bearing life in the BB was shit.

In my experience the plastic cups seem to press in fine. I had no problem with the chainline with a Shimano HT2 crank (M980 XTR). I seem to recall the two adaptors are different sizes: LH / RH? Are you sure you have the right one on each side?

-

In my Raijin I have been using a RaceFace PF30 BB (PF30 -> 24mm RaceFace/Shimano) that is fantastic. Alloy cups, replaceable bearings and I am very happy to say excellent bearing life (WAY better then past RaceFace offerings considering it is still going strong after a nasty winter of riding).

So, (for everyone else who hasn't already bought a BB + Adaptors): If you are going to put 24mm Cranks into a PF30 frame (and a lot of frames seem to be going that way, see -> all of Specialized) this is the best product available.

Last I heard they were going into production, so bug the hell out of your RaceFace dealer to get some instead of wasting your money on a SRAM BB + reducers.

-D

*Edit: I don't have a close-up of the RaceFace BB but I will try and take one today.

nick · 06-10-2012, 05:26 PM

Why press in BB's??? That's one standard I don't get. I hear of so much troubles with them after a few years (I guess all those frames are disposable anyway...) Good old fashion threaded, never have troubles. I just hope that Chromag, Ragley and other brands like them don't change, you never hear of problems with them...

hampstead_bandit · 06-10-2012, 07:57 PM

thanks to everyone who replied to my thread, has given me more information to use

something we found out today in the workshop, when I stripped my crankset and BB down again; I also tried a rear wheel from a 2012 Specialized Carve and new pedals, etc. to eliminate all possibilities

(brand new bearings were put in Friday..but the bike still 'clicked' on each pedal stroke straight out the door of the shop..the problem since day one has been clicking / creaking when pedalling and I've had SRAM UK check the cranks, replace the BB, replace bearings a number of times)

with the PF30 left (non-driveside) cup removed, the brand new 6806 bearing is completely smooth running

with the PF30 cup installed (press fit using Park headset press), the same bearing becomes graunchy and has a rough spot

remove the PF30 cup again, and the same bearing is completely smooth running

also tried installing the PF30 right (driveside) into the left side of BB shell, and the same phenomonen was experienced

I've seen this before, some seasons back, with my Banshee Wildcard which was one of the first from the first production run. it had the same clicking, and after weeks of experimentation (changing all the parts on the bike) we found the bearing "socket" (bore) in the swingarm was slightly ovalised.

brand new bearings would graunch once pressed in, remove the same bearing and it was smooth again, press back in and graunching re-occured. The solution on the Wildcard was to take an old bearing and literally beat in into the swingarm / remove about 20 times with small shards of aluminium coming off, until we tried a new bearing and it did not become graunchy

obviously with a PF30 BB I cannot repeat this "procedure" so am off to see Specialized UK tomorrow morning in Chessington and see what their take on this is

JCL · 06-11-2012, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrewM

My, personal, experience with these - plastic - adaptors is awful. They are, generally, not resuable and they tend to walk (walk = destroyed) when you press them in (yes, threading the BB cup in first as per the instructions) and they are ridiculously expensive for a piece of threaded plastic (threading your alloy BB into plastic?!)
.

I've had no problems with them. I've taken mine out and reused it. I press them in without the cups as it will keep them square. Plastic won't stretch the BB shell as easy either.

walleater · 06-11-2012, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick

Why press in BB's??? That's one standard I don't get. I hear of so much troubles with them after a few years (I guess all those frames are disposable anyway...) Good old fashion threaded, never have troubles. I just hope that Chromag, Ragley and other brands like them don't change, you never hear of problems with them...

Here is the gospel according to Cannondale (complete with spelling errors and a total lack of credit to Magic Motorcycle), including a review by Roberta Millar:

http://www.cannondale.com/can/bb30

In all fairness I don't think there is too much wrong with press in BB bearings, it's just the usual MTB clusterfuck of 'standards' that's the problem.

hampstead_bandit · 06-11-2012, 02:47 PM

went to SBC UK this morning in Chessington, England

spent some time with one of the technical / warranty staff

came back to London, stripped the bike and shipped the frame by UPS back to SBC UK

should find out soon....

hampstead_bandit · 06-14-2012, 05:10 PM

well some bad news from the nice warranty people at SBC UK

my Stumpy 29er Evo frame is buggered, to put it nicely, the PF30 BB shell "bore" is out of tolerance - it had not been manufactured correctly (they confirmed this was causing all the problems I had experienced)

then some good news from the nice warranty people at SBC UK

"we can upgrade you to the Stumpy 29er carbon fibre frame at no charge, if that is ok for you? We'll also include a new chain device because your E13 XCX may not fit" (I reckon I can live with black/white paint and 0.5 degree steeper head angle!)

this is why I tend to buy Specialized bikes....

Oldfart · 06-14-2012, 05:12 PM

WIN!If i was you, I would also buy a lottery ticket because luck is with you now brother.

hampstead_bandit · 06-15-2012, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldfart

WIN!If i was you, I would also buy a lottery ticket because luck is with you now brother.

hearing you there...took the advice and bought the "Euromillions" lottery ticket for this evening

frame turned up today, along with new PF30 BB, new headset, new chain device - nice work SBC UK!

building 'er up right now, will get some pics on NSMB.com asap

hampstead_bandit · 06-16-2012, 11:48 AM

awesome result (also put a reply in the 29er thread)

06-09-2012, 07:13 PM	#1
hampstead_bandit riding hard since 1981!!! Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: LONDON, UK Posts: 446 Rep Power: 263865	PF30 question - Shimano HT2 crank installation been having ongoing problems, since day one...over 5 months now, with the crank and BB on my Stumpjumper Evo 29er hardtail (2012) which uses the PF30 BB standard and matching SRAM 1250-S (single ring) PF30 crank with E13 XCX seat tube mounted chain device the problems have led me to want me to ditch the SRAM crankset for tried and tested Shimano HT2 was recommend to try the "Wheels Manufacturing" PF30 adapter for Shimano HT2 cranks by the UK distrib. of Wheels; this reduces the ID of the PF30 bearing to 24mm for HT2 axles. got the adapters, they fitted fine into the PF30 bearings, but the Shimano SLX HT2 crank spacing is completely out of whack, and won't allow the chainring to sit far enough outboard to clear the backplate of the chain device I tried spacing out the SLX cranks by introducing several 24mm ID shims between the Wheels adapter and the crank spider, but all this does is reduce the length of the HT2 axle on the non-driveside, to a level where installation would be dangerous due to lack of axle depth has anyone tried putting HT2 cranks into a BB30 or PF30 bike? Any tips you can suggest? I tried ringing the UK Distrib. for both Wheels (Madison a.k.a. Shimano UK) and Specialized UK and both drew a blank. the only thought I have had is to get Saint HT2 in 83mm so there is more axle depth to work with, but would ideally like to keep a perfectly working pair of SLX HT2 cranks if possible

06-09-2012, 09:51 PM	#2
JCL Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NV Posts: 2,606 Rep Power: 1933556	Rob, What about the press fit to BSA Sram adapter? That's what I run on the Demo with 83mm GXP Descendents. http://www.hammerheadbikes.com/sram-...b-adapter-kit/ __________________ Everything that spins has a point

06-10-2012, 05:26 PM	#5
nick www.epiccyclist.com Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: north shore Posts: 1,501 Rep Power: 829884	Why press in BB's??? That's one standard I don't get. I hear of so much troubles with them after a few years (I guess all those frames are disposable anyway...) Good old fashion threaded, never have troubles. I just hope that Chromag, Ragley and other brands like them don't change, you never hear of problems with them... __________________ http://www.epiccyclist.com/

06-14-2012, 05:12 PM	#11
Oldfart Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Whistler Posts: 4,354 Rep Power: 2825325	WIN!If i was you, I would also buy a lottery ticket because luck is with you now brother. __________________ Debate? Bikes are made for riding not pushing.

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06-10-2012, 07:57 PM	#6
hampstead_bandit riding hard since 1981!!! Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: LONDON, UK Posts: 446 Rep Power: 263865	thanks to everyone who replied to my thread, has given me more information to use something we found out today in the workshop, when I stripped my crankset and BB down again; I also tried a rear wheel from a 2012 Specialized Carve and new pedals, etc. to eliminate all possibilities (brand new bearings were put in Friday..but the bike still 'clicked' on each pedal stroke straight out the door of the shop..the problem since day one has been clicking / creaking when pedalling and I've had SRAM UK check the cranks, replace the BB, replace bearings a number of times) with the PF30 left (non-driveside) cup removed, the brand new 6806 bearing is completely smooth running with the PF30 cup installed (press fit using Park headset press), the same bearing becomes graunchy and has a rough spot remove the PF30 cup again, and the same bearing is completely smooth running also tried installing the PF30 right (driveside) into the left side of BB shell, and the same phenomonen was experienced I've seen this before, some seasons back, with my Banshee Wildcard which was one of the first from the first production run. it had the same clicking, and after weeks of experimentation (changing all the parts on the bike) we found the bearing "socket" (bore) in the swingarm was slightly ovalised. brand new bearings would graunch once pressed in, remove the same bearing and it was smooth again, press back in and graunching re-occured. The solution on the Wildcard was to take an old bearing and literally beat in into the swingarm / remove about 20 times with small shards of aluminium coming off, until we tried a new bearing and it did not become graunchy obviously with a PF30 BB I cannot repeat this "procedure" so am off to see Specialized UK tomorrow morning in Chessington and see what their take on this is

06-11-2012, 02:47 PM	#9
hampstead_bandit riding hard since 1981!!! Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: LONDON, UK Posts: 446 Rep Power: 263865	went to SBC UK this morning in Chessington, England spent some time with one of the technical / warranty staff came back to London, stripped the bike and shipped the frame by UPS back to SBC UK should find out soon....

06-14-2012, 05:10 PM	#10
hampstead_bandit riding hard since 1981!!! Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: LONDON, UK Posts: 446 Rep Power: 263865	well some bad news from the nice warranty people at SBC UK my Stumpy 29er Evo frame is buggered, to put it nicely, the PF30 BB shell "bore" is out of tolerance - it had not been manufactured correctly (they confirmed this was causing all the problems I had experienced) then some good news from the nice warranty people at SBC UK "we can upgrade you to the Stumpy 29er carbon fibre frame at no charge, if that is ok for you? We'll also include a new chain device because your E13 XCX may not fit" (I reckon I can live with black/white paint and 0.5 degree steeper head angle!) this is why I tend to buy Specialized bikes....

06-16-2012, 11:48 AM	#13
hampstead_bandit riding hard since 1981!!! Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: LONDON, UK Posts: 446 Rep Power: 263865	awesome result (also put a reply in the 29er thread)

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