AT bindings

[MudPie]

I'm getting ready to go backcountry skiing. I think I'm going to get AT gear, rather than tele gear, which most of my experienced friends use. There seem to be two types of bindings available: the old AT ones and the much lghter newer type (see here) with the two pins that stick into the front side of the boot. Anyone tried both? I been told you can ski agressively with the new type, but I'm not entirely convinced and would appreciate some more opinions and insight.

Also as I'm spending a load of money, thinking of ordering over the web from the US to reduce the sting. Any good online shops that you can recommend...?
cheers

[gooch]

If you are going to ski hard

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_d...=1137101008448

Here they are a REI

http://www.rei.com/online/store/Prod...I_SSHP_SKI_TOC

Cheaper in Canada

[Oldfart]

The Dynafit bindings have prooven themselves to be plenty skookum over the years for touring and you see people riding the lifts with them too. Bear in mind that you need special boots as you've probably noticed and those boots will NOT be like your old Lange plug boots. They are quite soft in comparison but nothing you can't adapt too. Thing is, in the backcountry, kilometers away from help, you do not want to ski anything crazy. Even a blown knee that you can't walk on could mean dying of exposure. Also bear in mind that the releaseability of a Dynafit is quite simple in comparison to a modern alpine binding.

There are other options such as Fritschi and Naxo where you get better release capabilities at the cost of weight. And if you already own alpine boots they go in no probelm. Alpine boots won't tour as well, but if you just want to get some lines off the top of Whistler and Blackcomb, it's not that big a deal. Some people have had some breakage issues with early models of Fritschi and Naxo. Like me. I have looked at the Silvretta Pure bindings too. They "look" flimsy and I'm told the toe doesn't hold the boot down so well. A little slop according to one friend.

[Rat]

Pretty tough to find the stuff cheap. reality is that a full AT set up including skis and personal gear is going to run over 2 grand

[MudPie]

Maybe I'll go for those Diamirs, shame they're a whole 2 kg - although I could probably shed more than that off my gut. I know it's not advisable to go crazy on a big trip, but it can be nice just to work up and down a forested area and let rip

This process is as painful as buying a bike. You end up over spending and craving two or three set-ups.

2 K and then the clothing....

[kalisto]

Being so used to alpine skiing, I find when I'm touring, I'd rather be on an alpine setup. Seeing that alpine trekkers are kind of a pain (and weigh a ton), Fritschi seems like the best option. Downhill skis (in april can get pretty cheap), alpine boots (which you already own), and Fritschi Freeride bindings will cost about 1 grand. It'll be a little heavy, but as long as you're not doing long trips, it's a great setup. You can always get touring skis and still use alpine boots. Personally I prefer alpine boots vs. touring boots, but that's just me....

EDIT: If you're just getting introduced to backcountry, try renting a pair of alpine trekkers and skins to see if you will truly like it, because if you don't... You get the point. Also, I havn't really seen any of those Naxo bindings around, but they look pretty good, and still fit alpine boots.

[LeeLau]

What size are your feet? What ski will you put them on?

Contrary to popular opinion Dynafits are very good for skiing inbounds or out of bounds. They lack a riser so are closer to the snow - which is not so great for railing on hardpack but is good for ski-crampons; sidehilling etc.

But personally i think Dynafits are a little finicky for our wet coastal snow. They are super light weight but the pinholes in the boots pack up with snow and ice in our wet coast snot.

I use Fritschi myself. Its a lousy time of the year to get them as you will end up paying full price. Escape Route in Whistler carries them also as well as all the gear you will need. Also see the thread I posted about free introduction to ski touring.

[MudPie]

Hey nice shots on Chief Pascal Lee

I'm normally a 44 european (normally that's 10 in UK and I think 11 Canadian)...while we're on sizes: 5'10 / 80 kg...you selling gear?

Not sure about the skis, my back-up option is Kodiak bears...I know couple of people riding them, seem fairly happy. I'm more about the good skiing than the super-long touring though. I've got a pair of dh skis for rocks n bushes, so I'm happy to get these purely for plush backcountry snow. Suggestions welcome

I just got told by an old backcountry hand that those dynafits are a lot more stable than people suggest. He reckons the style you need is slightly different, which makes the transition feel wobbly...that aside some pretty extreme riders use them. He mentioned ice can make them a bit finckety sometimes

[LeeLau]

I saw some nice boots on ebay that are Dynafit compatible but you're not close to that size -they're sz 9. If you want to buy used you should be looking at the MEC gear swap board; the Tetongravity.com forums and telemarktips.com

[hecklin at y'all]

Well, I am a little biased as I work for Diamir, but here are some facts.
Dynafit (Comfort Tour Lite .740 KG w/o brake, brake weights .280 KG making the set-up 1.2 KG. The Tech Tour Lite weighs .680 KG w/o brake)- Light, strong, low to the ski. If you are going to be using a fat or stiff ski, you will want a built in riser for the Dynafits (as offered by Naxo, Silveretta, and Diamir), but then you are starting to add weight.
You need a specific boot for Dynafit. No big deal, but you can't just rent a boot if the airline company looses your boots, or if you have any other footwear issues.
The most important issue is Dynafit will NOT! release while in touring mode. Think about it. You get into some fluff, then the fluff gets bigger. Next thing you know, you are heading downhill in a slide. Your skis? Sorry, they stay attached, acting like a pair of knives cutting, slashing, and twisting. The slide ends. It's nothing major, just a small snow fracture slipping a few meters. You skis, however, are still attached to your boots, and now they are under 2 ft. of snow. Yummy.
Just something to consider.
Naxo. There are two versions. The lighter one (NX01 2.177KG) is very flexy, and not super stable as a skiing binding. As a touring binding, the design is great, but for skiing, not so much. Their heavier binding (NX21 2.265KG) is exactly that. Heavier. You can use any Alpine or Touring DIN boot in Naxo bindings. They tend to tout their DIN 13 properties. Great if you ski a DIN 13, but not so important for most touring applications. Once you get past 12, there is no DIN standard anyway, just the manufacturers own interpertations as what a DIN 13 feels like.
An interesting aside. Naxo was developed by Diamir, but they refused to use it due to breakage issues, and the lack of skiing control/torsional rigidity, nor did they bother patenting it for the same reasons. The owners of Naxo left Diamir and took the design with them.
Silveretta Pure(1.2KG)-Light, a nice touring binding, but again not torsionally stable, so you suffer in skiing situations. Even the Pure-X (1.5KG) gives alot to Diamir in the flex department.
Diamir Freeride (1.99 KG). OK weight, great skiing, very torsionally stable. Will take Alpine or Touring DIN standard boots. It's the number 1 touring binding in sales across the world. The Explore is the lighter sibling (1.68KG w/o brakes). The Explore is a DIN 3-10, and sits 93mm off the ski while the Freeride is a DIN4-12 and site 97mm off the ski (I think that is the rise. sorry, I'm at home typing this, not at work). All parts (except for the bar, toe plate and heel DIN piece) are replacable (and shipped out of Burnaby). Acts the same as an alpine binding in set-up and release (Horizontal toe release, vertical heel release). 2 year full warranty, plus a 2 year conditional/courtesy warranty.
If you are looking for a full set-up, we are selling a pair of 2005 Mustang T-Stix with Diamir Explore bindings for $650. These skis are pretty much brand new. Let me know if you are interested in looking at them.
Tim...can back up all comments with independent reviews and testing.

[MudPie]

foolishly took my prior/dynafit skis out for a morning run on grouse yesterday. oouch. bust a heel pin. came off a steep at the last minute noticed I was landing on a hard upsloping landing, was expecting serious damage. the snapping pin saved me. I'll take the rock skis next time I'm on Grouse...2.5 m lol
took it took MEC, fortunately, the tech was the one I knew. Stuck a new pin in in ten minutes and 0$ later was to good to go.

[gary j]

three seasons on Fritschi freerides and no problems.

they are mounted on B3's so clearly i'm not a weight weenie.

they are great as i can use my alpine boots when lift skiing and have full confidence. they also have three riser positions that can be EASILY adjusted with a pole.

as you said before: the place to shed weight is on your gut...not your gear


if you end up touring with a gazelle just take the back until they break and all will be even.

[MudPie]

Originally Posted by gary j

they are great as i can use my alpine boots when lift skiing and have full confidence. they also have three riser positions that can be EASILY adjusted with a pole.

yeah I skied on some rental Freerides last year and my friend's NX21 and they seemed pretty solid, but I still ended up with these. Well I found the Naxos a bit weird actually.

I ski mainly deep snow, preferably very steep amongst lots of trees, but bare hills 'will do'. For these conditions the guy I know that fixes them reckons they are the most reliable AT binding. (Apparently the pin braking is extremely rare.)

They certainly take some getting used to. My first day B/C with these (bindings was a very painful learning experience. Getting used to stepping into them in powder and on slopes, learning to switch heel heights quickly, not stiffening the release setting on the front when climbing, not noticing and then remembering to check snow build up under the front springs and learning and remembering to prevent that...all made for a bad day. This and the fact that they don't look as solid as they are I can see why some slate them. I have to say, having invested a little time in them, they are awesome.

Riding backward is not so go, they're like a din4 this way, and landing on hard flats isn't good either. But that stuff doesn't rock my boat.)

[XXX_er]

Ya it will take you years to learn telemark compared to no learning curve if you already ski alpine.The Freerides make alot of sense if you already have alpine boots cuz you can use AT or alpine boots

the dynafits are more skookum than they look , I know a guide up here who uses them for everything including guiding for heli ski outfits .Once instaled I don't think they have alot of adjustment for different size boots,you absolutley need to get someone to instal them who knows what they are doing and you would be limited to only dynafit compatible boots are a couple of down falls to the dynafits


if you absolutley know what you are ordering try telemarkpyrennes.com in france

I ordered my t-1's from them and saved 10% after all taxes and shipping , would you believe 3.5 days from france to prince george,quicker than MEC ... and oh yea MEC was out of stock in december

[kokanee]

I say fritschis over dynafits any day. I've done 2 week tours in the fritschis no prob. I think you need the burl to ski the good stuff. Another bonus to the fritschis is you can buy spare parts to take with you on tours. Last big one I went on, my partner had to buy a spare set of dynafits and bring a complete extra binding$$$.

I've had good success with telemark-pyrenees.com as mentioned above. Just make sure to visit the section of their website on duties etc.

Also, I tele'd for a long time and also did some long tours on pins. Although I love tele for the fluidity and grace as well as the shear ease of day touring with that gear, I decided to go with AT as it would be the most flexible set up for me who could only afford one set up other than my alpine gear. Tele on a long tour with a big pack in variable snow is not fun. Also, when I was there, tele binders did not release-might be different now.