Hukk Bikes

[duke420]

Are these bikes as bad as they look. Does anyone have any feedback on them it would be really cool to support the hand built craftsman.

[sAFETY]

You could support a support a local craftsman by finding out what bike shop he now works at and spending your money there. Hukk bikes is dead.

[Ispy]

HUKK Lives!

[sAFETY]

HUKK Lives!

Are you sure? I've heard from 3 seperate sources that they're gone. Not that these people were lawyers representing the estate or anything so it's entirely possible that this could be a myth.

If they're still kicking, they need to get some PR out there as there are many claims of it's demise.

[nouseforaname]

Not the full story or anything but..>> I think Danu is just regrouping. He still has the desire, and drive, but i think he is concentrating on a more "Knollyesque" approach. Job by day, design by night. At least thats the impression i got recently.
The bikes weren't by any means bad, and in fact incorporated some cool stuff, like a Saint specific swingarm. They just got lost in the noise of the bike industry IMO, where everyone brings out a new design, then starts the groms salivating over the "new" new model 6 months later.

Not that i'm not a huge techno weenie gear slut, but the signal to noise ratio of the bike industry seems skewed sometimes.

[Ispy]

Shop is gone but the ride is still there. Not sure if they're still producing at the moment but don't count 'em out just yet.

[biggles604]

Not that i'm not a huge techno weenie gear slut, but the signal to noise ratio of the bike industry seems skewed sometimes.

The SNR is really bad. There are so many people out there with an opinion and no facts to base it on. Hype and fashion are a bigger driving force than science and testing.

[the Master Plan Dan]

I hope you guys are correct... Danu is such a great guy... and his collection of cruisers was nuts!

While I never rode them, I heard from several people that they were great bikes...

Dan

[newgirl]

dan you make it sound like he's dead....

rest assured he was spotted at the black bear. good times at the opener party I think i remember....where was the blowout goodbye bender?

[shirk]

The SNR is really bad. There are so many people out there with an opinion and no facts to base it on. Hype and fashion are a bigger driving force than science and testing.

Agree with you on this.

[duke420]

Thats funny I went on the website got the number and talked to the man, and he said he still had some frames left. And he was at work, I'm Asking how did the bikes perform has anyone ridden them, I don't care about the new technology I only care about the "What works best technology".

[C.Lee]

they look ok.. i dont like the square tubing =s

gotta hurt if u miss a pedal.. and land on TT

[fitchy]

they look ok.. i dont like the square tubing =s

gotta hurt if u miss a pedal.. and land on TT


and round tubing will be all the better?

[baloom]

Are these bikes as bad as they look. Does anyone have any feedback on them it would be really cool to support the hand built craftsman.

They are certainly not my 'cup of tea' but if they work well, who cares what I think. I am always surprised at what people will buy. I like my bikes a bit on the 'industrial' side but they still have to look good enough to keep my attention (though how it works is still the ultimate issue for me). I don't get off on the new school swoopy lines (ie. Nomad, Demo 7) but those bike work great so, ultimately, who cares what it looks like (within reason). Now if every bike was the aesthetic equivalient to the Chevrolet Aztek, I think I might give up on this biking thing.

[duke420]

They are certainly not my 'cup of tea' but if they work well, who cares what I think. I am always surprised at what people will buy. I like my bikes a bit on the 'industrial' side but they still have to look good enough to keep my attention (though how it works is still the ultimate issue for me). I don't get off on the new school swoopy lines (ie. Nomad, Demo 7) but those bike work great so, ultimately, who cares what it looks like (within reason). Now if every bike was the aesthetic equivalient to the Chevrolet Aztek, I think I might give up on this biking thing.

You might be on to something.

[Oldfart]

Danu is wrenching at Steed these days. You can tell he knows his shit just taking to him. Plus he's Ken Maude's buddy which makes him my buddy. The bikes reminded me of an overbuilt Super Eight.

[sleeper]

Danu is wrenching at Steed these days. You can tell he knows his shit just taking to him. Plus he's Ken Maude's buddy which makes him my buddy. The bikes reminded me of an overbuilt Super Eight.


Those were my thoughts too, Design looked old, they were heavy, and not exactly appealing to the eye.

[Air Supplier]

You could support a support a local craftsman by finding out what bike shop he now works at and spending your money there. Hukk bikes is dead.
ya the owner Danu (hopefully I spelt it right) now works at Steed Cycles in North Van and I believe Steed will soon be a carrier of Hukks.... and no they are NOT dead! I saw one the other day that Danu had and it looked SICK!

[Air Supplier]

Danu is wrenching at Steed these days. You can tell he knows his shit just taking to him. Plus he's Ken Maude's buddy which makes him my buddy. The bikes reminded me of an overbuilt Super Eight.

haha sorry I didnt see this...

[flattire]

There is some validity to the criticism these types of manufacturers take. The owner of HUkk likley doesnt have the R&D tools, engineering teams, ability to manipulate suppliers, budget, etc, to design and manufacture a frame that will be competitive with the big players. I doubt that HUkk framesets were modelled in FEA software for research purpose of removing excess materials for lighter weights, improved permormance, etc. I recall someone telling me the frame's were fairly pricey (?). For me, I'll stick with specialized, cannondale, intense, to name a few, where I have that confidence.

[nouseforaname]

There is some validity to the criticism these types of manufacturers take. The owner of HUkk likley doesnt have the R&D tools, engineering teams, ability to manipulate suppliers, budget, etc, to design and manufacture a frame that will be competitive with the big players. I doubt that HUkk framesets were modelled in FEA software for research purpose of removing excess materials for lighter weights, improved permormance, etc. I recall someone telling me the frame's were fairly pricey (?). For me, I'll stick with specialized, cannondale, intense, to name a few, where I have that confidence.

No, but he did have access to some of the worlds best riders and a testing ground - the shore and locale - that other brands would kill for.
FEA is fine if you want to hone a bike to Ginsu like fineness, but when you need to chop wood you need an axe. IIRC the frames were in the range of $2500 -which is pretty comparable with a Demo from SBC.

No matter how much money you tell me those guys you mentioned above spent on their R+D i can still tell you that i've seen em all broken (and Hukks too) what does that tell you about their R+D?

[big_perm]

No matter how much money you tell me those guys you mentioned above spent on their R+D i can still tell you that i've seen em all broken (and Hukks too) what does that tell you about their R+D?Tells me that they spent more money on advertisement and sponsorships than r&d

[sAFETY]

No matter how much money you tell me those guys you mentioned above spent on their R+D i can still tell you that i've seen em all broken (and Hukks too) what does that tell you about their R+D?

That's the problem with buying a small company's bike. No matter how cool it is to support a smaller manufacturer, there's still a very good chance that bike company will go out of business and you'll be left with a frame that's not supported when you break it.

I almost bought a PDC, glad I didn't. I'd buy a Rotec, but how long are they going to be around?

Even when simple things like link plates and der. hangers break you'll be SOL

[IFO]

That's the problem with buying a small company's bike. No matter how cool it is to support a smaller manufacturer, there's still a very good chance that bike company will go out of business and you'll be left with a frame that's not supported when you break it.

I almost bought a PDC, glad I didn't. I'd buy a Rotec, but how long are they going to be around?

Even when simple things like link plates and der. hangers break you'll be SOL

EXACTLY...

[SEKTER13]

That's the problem with buying a small company's bike. No matter how cool it is to support a smaller manufacturer, there's still a very good chance that bike company will go out of business and you'll be left with a frame that's not supported when you break it.

I almost bought a PDC, glad I didn't. I'd buy a Rotec, but how long are they going to be around?

Even when simple things like link plates and der. hangers break you'll be SOL

This is very true and unfortunately makes it quite hard for new companies to get a start in this industry.

[Mic]

This is very true and unfortunately makes it quite hard for new companies to get a start in this industry.

In a way this is sad, because the smaller companies do kind of bring in new impressions - which is generally a good thing, since it keeps the big ones honest (maybe). Hmm.

[Couch_Surfer]

There is some validity to the criticism these types of manufacturers take. The owner of HUkk likley doesnt have the R&D tools, engineering teams, ability to manipulate suppliers, budget, etc, to design and manufacture a frame that will be competitive with the big players. I doubt that HUkk framesets were modelled in FEA software for research purpose of removing excess materials for lighter weights, improved permormance, etc. I recall someone telling me the frame's were fairly pricey (?). For me, I'll stick with specialized, cannondale, intense, to name a few, where I have that confidence.

I don't know if I agree with that - look at a company like Knolly. One man operation (until fairly recently). But a strong engineering background and an even stronger riding background combined for a killer frame design. Those frames are totally competitive with the big players (in boutique space - I'm talking Tuner, Foes).

A lot of the small companies seem to have made some mistakes in where they spent there money. Don't hire too quickly, don't go spending cash on interbike until the business can support it.

[M@M]

don't go spending cash on interbike until the business can support it.

Noel got that one right :lol:

I totally agree with what you said, I think Knolly is a very good example of a small company that is now flourishing, but is not out of the clear yet. For that matter, no company is every out of the clear, and that's what keeps them making good product. Just look at what happens when a company makes a crappy product for one or two years, *cough*manitou*cough*. But now that Knolly has developed a small market for its V-tach over the last 4(?) years, they are able to branch out, and are now making several other frames. I think Hukk has potential, but unfortunately, I think they were just unlucky. Knolly was able to maintain its market even with a long travel bike because of the engineering put into said bike. Now, they can apply the same engineering to their shorter travel bikes. If Hukk is/was able to make a product which could be marketed to the masses, then they will/would have a hope.

[coverider18]

i saw a brand new hukk bike just yesterday... it looked good

[duke420]

Well after talking with danu he is all about moto which he fashions his bikes after and that's awesome, Hukk bike here I come.

[sulley]

Well my take on small companies is a bit bias to say the least.

For one, being the owner of a small bike company like Rotec has been an adventure filled with long hours and tens of thousands dollars spent on the premise that other riders will share the same feeling and excitement that I have.

For the most part its been a great experience. I have no regrets getting involved at this end of the bike industry. Though I do feel that the general public has a misconception of small builders.

I got involved because I felt we could produce a better version of what was already produced, meaning the Rotec brand. But I find it hard to get past the old feelings some have of the brand name and hence don't give it a second thought which is sad.

Personally, Rotec is here to stay. Its been around since 1996, I bought it in 2001 and well its 2007 and I'm still making bikes, supporting my riders and supporting my customers.

The guys that started companies like PDC, Hukks, Canfields, Knollys and of course myself did so because of the love of creating and of course to see the company make money and of course.....a living.

We're not INTENSE, SANTA CRUZ, GIANT or SPECIALIZED......hell I'd love to see us all become that successful but the reality is that it takes hundreds of thousands if not millions invested over a long period to become like that.

I myself have invested a small fortune to get to where we are today and its only going to get better. We plan on being around for a long time because what would be the point.

Hell, if someone wants to invest the $$ to get us to that big guy level then by all mean, step up and be heard. In the mean time give us small guys a chance to become successful instead of saying we're not going to buy stuff from you because you might not be around in the future.

How the heck can you expect any small company to be around if you don't give them a chance......and oh yeah......Pay!!

I'd love to sponsor everyone too but then again I want to be here in the future as well!

Hey guys, without the riders (you) their wouldn't be customers so you've got to support as well as love what you ride if you get my drift.

These are just my thoughts based on what I've read on this thread. This IS NOT meant to flame any one person or group.....so please no attacks.

With the exception of Hukks owner I personally know most of the smaller builders or at the least been friendly to them in person or on the trail. We love doing this and most love what we've created......and for me that's matters the most.

Peace,
John Sullivan
Owner, Designer, Warranty, Shipping, Marketing, so on and so on!

Roteccycles USA
1-425-220-8663

[Mic]

nicely put. :)

[Air Supplier]

exactly they are doing something that they love! most people that work hate their jobs, so why not have fun!

[Couch_Surfer]

Great post sulley.

[sAFETY]

Sully,

On the flip side, there are so many risks in buying from such a small manufacturer.

if the company goes under, there goes your:

warranty
access to replacement parts

smaller companies generally have limited:

products
colours
availability
sizes

The smaller budgets mean there's a lot less R&D potential, that's why you see most small companies based around single designers (Turner, Canfield, Knolly, you). If the brain behind the brand isn't a genius, there's no money to buy the R&D otherwise.


Add this to the fact that these smaller company bikes cost a lot more and it becomes harder and harder to justify.

That said, these smaller companies are a lot more flexible to adapt to the needs of the market. Look at companies like Transition who come out of nowhere and absolutely explode because they offer exactly what riders want, before the big companies catch on.

So where is the sweet spot? When do the offerings of a smaller bike company begin to warrant the big risks and high price?

(I should say that I came very close to ordering an RL9 for this season, the sweet spot might be personal, but that bike is pretty close to that).

[terrorfirma]

[QUOTE=sAFETY;1686606]Sully,

On the flip side, there are so many risks in buying from such a small manufacturer.

if the company goes under, there goes your:

warranty
access to replacement parts

smaller companies generally have limited:

products
colours
availability
sizes

The smaller budgets mean there's a lot less R&D potential, that's why you see most small companies based around single designers (Turner, Canfield, Knolly, you). If the brain behind the brand isn't a genius, there's no money to buy the R&D otherwise.


Add this to the fact that these smaller company bikes cost a lot more and it becomes harder and harder to justify...
QUOTE]

I would have to jump in and say small is a relative term... Turner for example is a massive company compared to Knolly; sure they don't seem as popular here but in the US they have a pretty big following.
I don't think size plays that big of a part, but sound business practices do. Generally I do agree that the smaller business guys tend to be bike guys with little experience running the day to day operations and things can get ahead of them if they aren't willing to delegate to professionals who know what they're doing.
There are plenty of examples inside and outside the industry of big companies going out of business. Lets hope that riders keep supporting the smaller brands so that we all aren't riding around on Treks [not that there's anything wrong with that]. I remember Gerome at Balfa years back coming out with innovative designs that the big guys were copying. If it wasn't for the competition I guarantee we wouldn't have half the designs we do now. Companies like Santa Cruz were small at one point and now have grown... I really think this should be one of your last considerations when getting a bike which you'll probably only own for about 3 years max.

[DrewM]

I remember Gerome at Balfa years back coming out with innovative designs that the big guys were copying.

The only company I can think of using parallel links before Balfa is a strange looking Bianchi I saw in a magazine once.

Now they are used by Giant, Iron Horse, Cove, Banshee, BMC, Canfield, IBIS (so sad), and a host of other brands I'll probably remember later.



I really think this should be one of your last considerations when getting a bike which you'll probably only own for about 3 years max.I took this into consideration when I bought my Balfa 2-Step and Minute Man years back. Steel rear ends are a great idea on full suspension bikes (and hardtails) because that seems to be where most bikes break. I figured with the repair-ability of steel I was in the clear.

Noel protects you pretty well from this on his frames too. At least on the V-Tachs the rear derailleur hanger is a BEAST as are most the machined pieces. No worries about those chainstays cracking at the Horst link (can I call it that?) even if they are aluminum.

...

Now I've come to the realization that I change bikes more often then Rock Shox doubles the number of models in its fork line (anyone still bother trying to keep track?). Whenever I buy a frame I just buy two extra derailleurs hangers (unless if it uses an H-hanger... you know the Kona/Brodie/Norco/everything else hanger) and usually I sell it before I need to use either of them.

[DrewM]

In the spirit of the thread (Hukk bikes).

Danu looked after you pretty well too in the what happens if it is no longer made department.

No linkages to replace, no derailleur hanger at all (they use a Saint axle/derailleur). Anything you do to that bike isn't going to be a small part replacement (unless if it is a bearing... which is pretty easy). And they are built like a brick shit house to boot.

Plus the guy who welded those frames has been around the local frame welding industry for a while and supposedly (as far as I know I have never owned a frame welded by him... so I can't say from experience) he really really knows his shit... thats at least what I've been told by folks who I think know their shit.

[knollybikes.com]

Again, as has been said already, size is NOT indicative of financial success. Most business make a transition at some point from a small company to a medium company (often considered to be the riskiest size financially) to a large company...

There are lots of one man builders who absolutely thrive in this industry - just look at some of the custom steel frame builders - particularly in the road scene. Guys like Sacha White of Vanilla Cycles and Richard Sachs have 4-5 year wait lists for their bikes.

Secondly, I'd wager that most of the beneficial R&D done in the bike industry has been done by the small companies - in fact, often by one person. Why? Because most big companies are risk adverse. Let's look at some examples:

Horst Links: OK - Specialized NOW owns the three patents, but they were originally written by Horst himself, and are in his name - not some company's name. If he worked for a large bicycle manufacturer, the COMPANY would OWN the patent while the inventors would be named on it. That's not the case in the "Horst Patents". When granted, they were solely in the possession of Horst.

Parallel linkage bikes: originally introduced (designed and manufactured in reasonable numbers) by Balfa and Karpiel - again companies with under 10 (five?) employees.

DW Link: a specific incarnation of the dual linkage design designed to achieve a particular wheel path relationship with chain tension: Again, Dave Weagle ON HIS OWN.

VPP: originally designed and manufactured by Outland. Again: small company. Now licensed by Santa Cruz and Intense.

Knolly Four by 4 Linkage (I have to throw it in here :) One person, in his spare time...

I think Lawill was also on his own, but I'm not going to look up the patent right now to check that out... Sulley - do you know?

The small companies are different - often they're enthusiast run by people who are really in touch with the scene, their local terrain and the latest technology in the industry.

The problem with big companies is that they budget money to be spent but often the wrong people get involved in the job. Because there are more designers and engineers, often the project looses focus of the real target (which in bikes - unless it's marketing driven - should be performance and reliability). Some companies have fantastic product managers while others have very very out of touch ones.

"Edit - removed..."

Anyway, there's a lot to be said about doing your homework before buying. Lots of big companies are great as are lots of small companies. And lots of them (big and small) suck and should not be in business. Educate yourself, test ride if possible, ask your friends and see what works for you and your needs.

Cheers!

[sulley]

Hey Noel,

Heres some info to digest:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5121937.html

[seand]

Not to derail...

BUT

Sulley, I was surprised at the number or Rotecs at Port Angeles last Saturday. Impressive how strong the numbers have gotten when only a few years ago there were only a couple floating around :)

[sulley]

Hey Sean,

Long time no hear, hows things? I've been swamped and have no time for mysely these past few months so I've missed the last two events. I wish I had gone.

Its great to see the numbers increasing localy, now to work on the National and world-wide numbers and increase them as well for the next run!

Things have been looking good so far this year.

Keep in touch.

Sully

[duke420]

Guys just talked to Danu and my Frame just got painted, I'll post some pics when he sends them. Also he told me his riders did pretty well at crankworks and he said he has a new frame in mind, its going to focus on less travel soo well see whats up.