Pangor, nice work BUT

[mayday]

Rode Pangor today for the first time in a while (normally ride Fromme); really nice to see all the work done recently BUT why are all the wooden ramps/bridges 3ft wide? No skill at all is required to ride them(except of course that one sweet log ride:-). The last bridge (over swamp) built on top of the old bridge is a perfect example; the old one was just narrow enough to need a little bit of skill/ luck to make it over and if you did make it, gave a nice sense of acomplishment. Now you can do it with your eyes closed. There should be more to riding these trails than just being able to huck 10ft drops. If going fast is all you are interested in, might as well just pave the whole thing. Anyways, as mentioned, the hard work is appreciated but lets keep the big picture in mind.
Rebutals?

[Niggz]

its awesome work but i am sorta agreeing with you here. i think because pangor is the "n00b" alternative to boogieman that all the mandatory stuff should be easy. but yah challenging skinnys would be a nice challenge. i think for a trail like that, alternate skinny lines would be good but then that takes a lot more work and maintainence.

[Sharon]

This trail is considered an easy trail, hence the wider bridges.

But yes, a skinnier option would be nice. Maybe after the main work is done the guys may go back and put in those lines.

I agree with the width of the old bridge, wide enough to make it, skinny enough to make you wonder...

[tazzmenn]

great work on pangor. as the trail progresses it will surely get some doulble diamond lines, the harder the better. did i mention great work.....

[Putty]

Originally posted by mayday

Rebutals?

fix the a line first, get rid of puddles, pangor is an intermediate trail and needs to remain that way. once the trail flows and works in the wet, there will be double diamond lines added, but first we have to fix the trail.

on swamp monster....not an optional part of the trial, also needs to be intermediate

you will notice that I am putting in skinnies near the first berm and i can guarantee you when I am finished there will be lines that will be a challenge for everyone...i'd rather fix creeks and fill up holes before putting in lines that only a small percentage of the riders will use.

i don't actually think any bridges are 3 feet wide, more line 1.5 to 2 feet

[brock]

Originally posted by putty

i don't actually think any bridges are 3 feet wide, more line 1.5 to 2 feet

nsmb ruler

[Putty]

Originally posted by brock
nsmb ruler

*LOL*
:)

[mayday]

Intermediate? You're kidding right? With the banked woodwork at the start (nicely done by the way) and the wide bridges it is beginner at best.
As far as the argument that it is a beginner trail and boogeyman is the advanced trail; how do people expect these newbies to progress if there are just the two extremes?
Again, nice work but just because there are sections that have no bypasses doe not mean they should be wheelchair accesable.

[Putty]

Originally posted by mayday
Intermediate? You're kidding right? With the banked woodwork at the start (nicely done by the way) and the wide bridges it is beginner at best.
As far as the argument that it is a beginner trail and boogeyman is the advanced trail; how do people expect these newbies to progress if there are just the two extremes?
Again, nice work but just because there are sections that have no bypasses doe not mean they should be wheelchair accesable.

that's interesting. i haven't seen any beginners hit the top of the berms with speed, but i have seen good riders carry shitloads of speed through the first part of the section, air the little ride down, and land on the second berm, with huge speed. a beginner can ride the section, but they will not be hitting the berms with speed and most likely taking the low flat path through the bridges.

seems to me that most people are enjoying the trial more, and are able to hit stunts within their comfort level.

if pangor is too easy for you, don't ride it. i am not about to turn a traditionally intermediate, old school trail into another boogieman, and there are still a lot of noobs on that trail, so hence the wide bridges. i still see peeps walking some of the stunts i have built, so i don't think i am making things too easy.

like i said before, there will be harder lines going in, but they are second priority and will always be optional.

[Tool]

Nice work Putty, still haven't had a chance to check it out yet. Hopefully soon. I know people aren't exactly complaining, but last year in the rain the trail was pretty much not worth riding at all, it's nice to see someone taking it on:D

[LeeLau]

Originally posted by mayday
Intermediate? You're kidding right? With the banked woodwork at the start (nicely done by the way) and the wide bridges it is beginner at best.
As far as the argument that it is a beginner trail and boogeyman is the advanced trail; how do people expect these newbies to progress if there are just the two extremes?
Again, nice work but just because there are sections that have no bypasses doe not mean they should be wheelchair accesable.

Mayday.

I don't know how well you ride but relative to the rest of Seymour, Pangor is a beginner/intermediate trail. Its got roots and some decent grades after all. Bridle Path and the SDF trails are the only true beginner trails

So this doesn't get personal, let me first say that I realize this is all personal opinion.

There are lots of intermediate trails out there. Severed is intermediate. There is also Dales which is intermediate. IMO, CBC is a classic intermediate trail. Newbies can learn on those trails. Let Pangor be the "easy" trail. What is wrong with that?

Boogeyman is, again IMO, the only difficult trail on Seymour.

In fact, almost all trails on Seymour are beginner or intermediate RELATIVE to North Shore trails.

So I don't think your critique of the Pangor stunts is correct if only because not all those Pangor structures you point too are terribly beginner. Sometimes I think we forget how hard the trails are to ride.

SOme other points that you might not have realized:

1. The main reason for Pangor being rebuilt is because it was trashed.

2. Its hoped that Pangor will become a nice trail to ride to take some of the wear and tear off Boogeyman.

2. Pangor will likely get a lot of traffic - just like Boogeyman. If this is true then IMO it is a good thing to build bombproof wide structures so it doesn't become a Boogeyman clone ie skinny more challenging structures.

[mayday]

"a traditionally intermediate, old school trail "
My point exactly; these wide banked sections turn it into a speed fest; how fast can I go, how big can I drop. Nothing wrong with that style of riding but not exactly intermediate old school. Just saying that if you are accepting responsibility for the trail, the original flow should be kept in mind.

[Putty]

Originally posted by Tool
Nice work Putty, still haven't had a chance to check it out yet. Hopefully soon. I know people aren't exactly complaining, but last year in the rain the trail was pretty much not worth riding at all, it's nice to see someone taking it on:D

Thanks Tool! That's a lot nicer to hear than complaints about bridges being too wide!

I am hoping we can make Pangor a year round trail, within the next year or so.

[LeeLau]

Originally posted by mayday
Rode Pangor today for the first time in a while (normally ride Fromme); really nice to see all the work done recently BUT why are all the wooden ramps/bridges 3ft wide? No skill at all is required to ride them(except of course that one sweet log ride:-). The last bridge (over swamp) built on top of the old bridge is a perfect example; the old one was just narrow enough to need a little bit of skill/ luck to make it over and if you did make it, gave a nice sense of acomplishment. Now you can do it with your eyes closed. There should be more to riding these trails than just being able to huck 10ft drops. If going fast is all you are interested in, might as well just pave the whole thing. Anyways, as mentioned, the hard work is appreciated but lets keep the big picture in mind.
Rebutals?

You should check out 7th down to Crinkum btw . Now that's a beginner trail

[Putty]

Originally posted by mayday
"a traditionally intermediate, old school trail "
My point exactly; these wide banked sections turn it into a speed fest; how fast can I go, how big can I drop. Nothing wrong with that style of riding but not exactly intermediate old school. Just saying that if you are accepting responsibility for the trail, the original flow should be kept in mind.

yeah, they turn into a speed fest if you are good. for a beginner, they can still ride them slow and be challenged by the little ride down, or choose options off the log. then as you get to know the trail better and improve you can hit the berms harder and faster and see yourself get better. something for everyone.

side huck the end of the log and tell me that's a beginner stunt, there are options for going big everywhere with some imagination...isn't that what freeriding is all about?

[mayday]

Ok, one last comment and we can let this one die.
I agree with your last post, and admit I did enjoy the new sections, and there were multiple lines on the new stunts for those not so inclined. It used to be a mess after a rain so any work has been an improvement. My original point was more the fact that the swamp bridge was changed to something wider, taking some of the fun out of it.

[Putty]

Originally posted by mayday
Ok, one last comment and we can let this one die.
I agree with your last post, and admit I did enjoy the new sections, and there were multiple lines on the new stunts for those not so inclined. It used to be a mess after a rain so any work has been an improvement. My original point was more the fact that the swamp bridge was changed to something wider, taking some of the fun out of it.

i can dig that. we are thinking of putting a sicker skinny through that swamp as a b line. trust me..you'll fall and it will be fun. just need some time as there are more cruicial issues on the trail

no hard feelings

:thepimp:

[wilkez]

i think hes right, seymour needs an easy trail. cuz really neds is full of crazed spead deamons, boogy is very intimidfating to n00bs and those are really the main trails that any new rider would know about.

[m33p]

Um. not to trash this thread again but do you work on any trails Mayday? One guy can only do so much on a trail. mega props out to Putty and the others working on Pangor, I still haven't checked it out or even ridden Ned's since I did any work on it:( I gotta ride some day...

[Putty]

Originally posted by m33p
Um. not to trash this thread again but do you work on any trails Mayday? One guy can only do so much on a trail. mega props out to Putty and the others working on Pangor, I still haven't checked it out or even ridden Ned's since I did any work on it:( I gotta ride some day...

Thanks m33p!

its funny, cause about 2 weeks ago i started building a stupid skinny off the first wood berm. i was expecting peeps to bitch that it was too difficult (its not finished yet). and then this thread came along and i have to laugh, because if you actually went up there and saw it now this whole thing would have been a moot point, but oh well.

i have a pretty good vision of how i see the sections i work on, and people will just have to wait until they are finished to start bitching.

until then, if you got energy to bitch, come help me build and it will get there faster, otherwise....

[Lady Gravity]

hey pangor sounds cool - i can't wait to check it out. Being a "n00b", boogie is not an option for me at this point :)

[Cucumber Jones]

Props Putty. Your work is outstanding! I am really happy with what you have done and I know it will only get better!!

[Putty]

Originally posted by Cucumber Jones
Props Putty. Your work is outstanding! I am really happy with what you have done and I know it will only get better!!

Thanks Man. Its nice to hear. I rode all the stuff I build for the first time this weekend, and I have to say that I am pretty happy with it.

I still stick to the "you can make you path as difficult as you want" principle, as I took turns going slow and seeing the noob side of the trial, and hitting the berms with speed. I think they are fun either way.

I will be putting in more 3 foot bridges soon;)

[Cucumber Jones]

Putty - what cool plans do you have for Pangor?? Any good ideas for the big uphill?

I think there is tones of opertunity on that trail for cool stuff. Far more then boogie.

Keep up the GREAT work!

[Putty]

Originally posted by Cucumber Jones
Putty - what cool plans do you have for Pangor?? Any good ideas for the big uphill?

I think there is tones of opertunity on that trail for cool stuff. Far more then boogie.

Keep up the GREAT work!


My Pangor plans:

1. wooden switchbacks for the hike a bike (high priority)--so you can ride up the big hill you mention

2. I want to put in some completely sick optional skinnies in certain areas. you can see the first one that I am in the process of building off the first wooden berm near the top.

3. Fill in all the mud during the first trail day.

4. I want to build a ski-jump type stunt as well as some type of roller coaster somewhere on the trail

5. an Adjust-a-Huck (TM) a huck that get progressively larger and starts at about a foot. This would be good for people to practice and push their hucking. I want to make it so it goes up to 6 or 8 feet for the local ninjas.

6. Big Exit stunt at the first of the new log ride (where the x is now). I am not sure what this will be.

My main idea is to keep the non-optional stuff rideable by most with some sick, stupid, huge optional stuff that the "boogieman" crowd can have fun on.

We are also talking about a cut off from boogie before the log, so that people that are not comfortable with riding/walking the log, could cut up to Pangor and skip it. This will be done after the hike a bike is finished.

And then I will rest, and drink beer, and...:thepimp:

[Cucumber Jones]

Great ideas - I am looking forward to all of them. I have been also thinking that a cross over between Boogie and Pangor would be a good idea (not just at the top of the hill).

However there is loads of room at the top of the hill for cool stunts that would be optional.

Don't listen to thoes who complain - Pangor was always a mellow trail and you are just making it much better.

Will you be making a up an over at the log that you have too step up too? The one that has a roll down but no up option?

Keep up the great work!

[Xayvian]

Originally posted by Cucumber Jones
Will you be making a up an over at the log that you have too step up too? The one that has a roll down but no up option?



That would be great. Some riders are able to get up on the big log the way it is now so it would be good if there was a new ramp you can go down by heading straight ahead between the two trees.

[Putty]

Originally posted by Xayvian
That would be great. Some riders are able to get up on the big log the way it is now so it would be good if there was a new ramp you can go down by heading straight ahead between the two trees.

that's also high on the priority list.

[JSinclair]

Pangor was fun. We rode it on Saturday, and Putty you are kicking ass. The berms were fast and railable. making trasfer line from the log (Where the X is) back to the trail is interesting..:lol: there is a big root right there. I was wondering what the plan was for the section at the end (Where the drop is X'ed off)...looks like the line goes straight into the tree :eek:

Anyway, the mud was pretty deep (Almost worthy of a snorkle), so i will probly consider avoiding it until the weather dries out a bit as not to add to maintanance issues.

Major props though, I like fast flowy trails. If I wanted to ride skinnies I would go to Fromme.

Not everybody wants skinnies on the "A-Line". Riding a V10 on skinnies is not as much fun as you might think.

Keep up the good work.

[Putty]

Originally posted by JSinclair
Pangor was fun. We rode it on Saturday, and Putty you are kicking ass. The berms were fast and railable. making trasfer line from the log (Where the X is) back to the trail is interesting..:lol: there is a big root right there. I was wondering what the plan was for the section at the end (Where the drop is X'ed off)...looks like the line goes straight into the tree :eek:


The first thing I want to do there is rock in the landing so it is smooth. Eventually I want to build a big exit stunt off the end, it will be the biggest stunt on the whole log, as it will be completely optional.

Thanks for the props.

[switch]

The upper part of Boogieman isn't that hard compared to what's on Fromme. Even an intermediate rider will have little problem doing that part of the trail.

Pangor is relatively easy, and when dry, is a great trail to rip down. It flows, with a lot of twists and turns. A lot of the trail is still covered in roots. As for difficulty, try hitting the new section at the top with speed. The very end of the trail (lower section) has really improved; it's now rideable even when wet, and it offers a decent challenge. The upper part is much longer, and drainage is definitely an issue. That means a lot of work. Drain the trail and fill in or bypass sensitive/boggy areas. After that, there's plenty of room for adding technical challenges.

Pangor has a lot of potential, and the builders are bringing that out. With a trail day (hopefully two!!!), and continued great work by Chris and Dave, I think Pangor will be an excellent compliment to Boogieman. Boogieman, Severed, and Pangor, and C-Buster will make up 4 very good mid-mountain trails with their own unique flavour and level of difficulty.

As for the widening of the ladder-bridge on the swamp, that ladder wasn't meant to be some kind of technical feat; it's to get you over a sensitive area of the trail.

Originally posted by mayday Intermediate? You're kidding right? With the banked woodwork at the start (nicely done by the way) and the wide bridges it is beginner at best.
As far as the argument that it is a beginner trail and boogeyman is the advanced trail; how do people expect these newbies to progress if there are just the two extremes?
Again, nice work but just because there are sections that have no bypasses doe not mean they should be wheelchair accesable.

[Putty]

Originally posted by switch
The upper part of Boogieman isn't that hard compared to what's on Fromme. Even an intermediate rider will have little problem doing that part of the trail.

Pangor is relatively easy, and when dry, is a great trail to rip down. It flows, with a lot of twists and turns. A lot of the trail is still covered in roots. As for difficulty, try hitting the new section at the top with speed. The very end of the trail (lower section) has really improved; it's now rideable even when wet, and it offers a decent challenge. The upper part is much longer, and drainage is definitely an issue. That means a lot of work. Drain the trail and fill in or bypass sensitive/boggy areas. After that, there's plenty of room for adding technical challenges.

Pangor has a lot of potential, and the builders are bringing that out. With a trail day (hopefully two!!!), and continued great work by Chris and Dave, I think Pangor will be an excellent compliment to Boogieman. Boogieman, Severed, and Pangor, and C-Buster will make up 4 very good mid-mountain trails with their own unique flavour and level of difficulty.

As for the widening of the ladder-bridge on the swamp, that ladder wasn't meant to be some kind of technical feat; it's to get you over a sensitive area of the trail.

at last, a voice of reason:)

[dwicks]

Of all the many problem areas on pangor (i.e. several mud pits that have swallowed people whole, the hike a bike, and several poorly picked original lines) someone complains about a bridge being too wide?

I guess we all have our own issues.

DW

[Putty]

Originally posted by dwicks
Of all the many problem areas on pangor (i.e. several mud pits that have swallowed people whole, the hike a bike, and several poorly picked original lines) someone complains about a bridge being too wide?

I guess we all have our own issues.

DW

hey you're back, you want to go up to Pangor this weekend and build some 3 foot wide bridges? I know just the place.:P

[dwicks]

Putty, I'd like to go up and work opne day this weekend and ride the other. I'll give you a call. I was thinking of building a 30 foot wide bridge over top on Swamp Monster will guard rails and pillows on the ground. Sound good?

DW

[Putty]

Originally posted by dwicks
Putty, I'd like to go up and work opne day this weekend and ride the other. I'll give you a call. I was thinking of building a 30 foot wide bridge over top on Swamp Monster will guard rails and pillows on the ground. Sound good?

DW

:D im in for both, we should fix the up and over with no up ramp maybe and finish off swamp monster?

guard rails are a good idea, the pros on Pangor could ride them for a more difficult line

[switch]

Chris, did you consider closing the existing hike trail up, and swing around left and then right on the gradual grade up the to the Pangor/Boogieman junction? It seems that the grade would shallow enough even for pedaling a big bike up, and there probably wouldn't be a need for much ladder work.

Oh, and at the entrance to the lower part of Pangor, another log chair would be nice... :D

[JordanJ]

This stuff sounds awesome.... I am planning a trip up to Seymour in a few weeks, and want to be able to hit pretty much every trail. Where is the entrance to Pangor? (I have only been down the CBC/RIGHT TURN/Corkscrew/Neds combo) And does anyone know where to find an UP TO DATE Seymour map on the internet, or does anyone own one that could scan it and e-mail me it? Thanx much

[JordanJ]

Oh yeah, I forgot to add: Putty, itd be awesome if you had the chance to take some pictures of your progreess and post them somewhere (pinkbike?) I am peeing my pants in anticipation! :P

[Putty]

Originally posted by switch
Chris, did you consider closing the existing hike trail up, and swing around left and then right on the gradual grade up the to the Pangor/Boogieman junction? It seems that the grade would shallow enough even for pedaling a big bike up, and there probably wouldn't be a need for much ladder work.

Oh, and at the entrance to the lower part of Pangor, another log chair would be nice... :D

we have considered that, but DW and PD looked at it, and could not find a less steep line to work with. If you have something in mind, let me know...maybe we missed something.

[switch]

http://www.nsmba.bc.ca/maps/seymourtrailsdescription.html

Originally posted by JordanJ
This stuff sounds awesome.... I am planning a trip up to Seymour in a few weeks, and want to be able to hit pretty much every trail. Where is the entrance to Pangor? (I have only been down the CBC/RIGHT TURN/Corkscrew/Neds combo) And does anyone know where to find an UP TO DATE Seymour map on the internet, or does anyone own one that could scan it and e-mail me it? Thanx much

[switch]

Originally posted by putty
we have considered that, but DW and PD looked at it, and could not find a less steep line to work with. If you have something in mind, let me know...maybe we missed something.

It was something Jim (PD) pointed out, and at the time it looked like a good idea. But if he and Dave checked it out, then 'nuff said.

[dwicks]

When PD and I walked it out, the problem was not the grade, but that the reroute would be more work then we first thought. So we will probably stick with the old route. I tried riding as much of the hike a bike as I could and there are only a few sections that are unridable. It's like the hike a bike on C-buster. Most of it can be ridin if you really want to. It just takes some effort and a non 50lb bike!

Dw

[switch]

Originally posted by JordanJ
Wheres CBC on there? Boogieman?

They aren't on there, but they would kinda look like the attached file.

[JordanJ]

I just drove up to Seymour with some friends today, and had a chance to ride Pangor for the first time... Very nice putty! Wooden berms are the shit, very smooth. Too bad it was crappy weather. I ran into two people doing maintenence on the trail... was one of them you? The guy asked me about how I found out about North Shore, since I live in the US. He seemed pretty cool. Anyways, i'm coming up again at least once in the summer, and people told me it is incredible when its dry. Can't wait! Keep up the good work.

[Putty]

Originally posted by JordanJ
I just drove up to Seymour with some friends today, and had a chance to ride Pangor for the first time... Very nice putty! Wooden berms are the shit, very smooth. Too bad it was crappy weather. I ran into two people doing maintenence on the trail... was one of them you? The guy asked me about how I found out about North Shore, since I live in the US. He seemed pretty cool. Anyways, i'm coming up again at least once in the summer, and people told me it is incredible when its dry. Can't wait! Keep up the good work.

hey thanks. the people building on the trail were not me. it might have been dWicks or PD.

It should look really good after trail day on Sun.

[wilkez]

this trail day should be dedicated to filling in the puddles, there are so many mud pits. once those are gone the trail will turn into a-line its gonna be so fast

[Putty]

Originally posted by wilkez
this trail day should be dedicated to filling in the puddles, there are so many mud pits. once those are gone the trail will turn into a-line its gonna be so fast

the plan is to fill the holes...yes

[Sharon]

I rode it on Wednesday. Top was a river but WAYYYY better then last year after a big rain!

The log ride detour around the decaying zig zag rocks! Nice!

[Mark]

Yah, i went up their today for the trail day and the work on it was very nice, excellent job when that trail is done it is going to be a very nice alternative to boggieman

[just ride]

that was my first trail day ever, pangor is a beautiful trail, and i cant wait to go ride it , props to everyone working on all the trails everywhere, i dont get why people can even think they have any right to bitch about the trails (when there are people out there volunteering to do all the work,) and then not go and work on them themselves and expect them to be the way they want them to be? if u dont like it, dont ride it. simple as that.