XC trails?

[G-spot]

Planning a XC/AM ride up to Vancouver and was wondering if there are any xc type trails in the area?

[TheGiggler]

Planning a XC/AM ride up to Vancouver and was wondering if there are any xc type trails in the area?


nothing worth riding really IMO around Van itself.

drive on a little further to Squamish where they have terrain and room for some real xc trails ... the shore's xc is very limited and most of it is beat.

[ryando]

Delta Watershed has some great technical XC trails

[onepunch]

Red mountain in Mission...Camp brick/john thompson( fig eight) loop in lower seymour reserve. Still pretty techy in some spots.

[McTB]

I enjoy Burnaby Mountain on my XC bike.

[TheGiggler]

yeah but EVERYTHING you guys listed at the 3 locations could be easily ridden in one day.

if I was driving up from the states i would def drive on thru to Squamish. those areas mentioned are pretty small and limited ...

[taprider]

plenty of xc/am on North Shore, infinite ways to do the Triple Crown

If an XC race is held on a trail it is therefore XC:
Bridal Path, Pangor, Neds, Severed Dick, Bottle Top, Dales
Kings Crawl, Griffen, 7th, Leppard, Bob Sled, Warden's etc. are all xc trails

[notasslowasu]

Quiet now Rod or your going to ruin the shore for everyone. Next thing you know there will be people actually riding there bikes instead of shuttling.

[TheGiggler]

if those are the shore's best XC trails then you've just proven my point.

all those trails are either rocky and beat to shit and/OR essentially straight downhill with very little in terms of rolling terrain and uphills.

if you want to call that xc, fine. but to most people who dont ride the shore that would be pedalling uphills to ride shore gnar ...

[shorelocal]

If an XC race is held on a trail it is therefore XC

So I guess the quote "if a DH race is held on a trail it is therefore DH" would hold true, eh? When's the sign up for the DH race in the demonstration forest or the UBC endowment lands??

[TylerDurden]

I'm surprised nobody has mention Mt Thurston (chilliwack), Burke Mt (Coquitlam), Belcarra (Port Moody), Delta Watershed, Manning Park, or Bear Mountain area (Mission).

There's a whole world of local riding beyond Fromme, Cypress and Seymour !

[BareFootMeshback]

I would second the Bear Mountain area recommendation. The DH is serious fun, could be done on an XC bike. Right across the street is Red mountain with a fun XC course. Just don't wander off into the rifle range. Know some guys to took a wrong turn and came out facing a bunch of guys with bows.

How is the riding in Belcarra? I haven't been there since I was in highschool (and then only once). It would be nice to find some good trails for mellow days when I don't feel like a road ride or heading to SFU.

[Testy]

Is this a riding trip exclusively? If so I'd recommend coming up for a week at least and i'd definitely bring your XC/ AM bike, start the trip off in Whistler,
(Contact www.worca.ca to hookup with a few locals) hit the world class xc trails up there for a day, then definitely rent a DH sled at Whistler and hit the bikepark for a day, you'll have a blast. Then down to Squamish for a couple days (contact www.sorca.ca to hookup with a few locals) and ride as much classic XC as you can handle (ride the Gearjammer race course for a great 45km sampling). Then come on down to the shore and hit some of the lower stuff on Fromme, Seymour and Burke (ontact www.nsmba.com to hook up with a few locals). It'll test your limits but you'll see some amazing woodwork and have a ton of fun.

7 days of fun.

[Heathen]

I'm surprised nobody has mention Mt Thurston (chilliwack), Burke Mt (Coquitlam), Belcarra (Port Moody), Delta Watershed, Manning Park, or Bear Mountain area (Mission).

There's a whole world of local riding beyond Fromme, Cypress and Seymour !

Anyone have any good maps of these trails. I would love to hit them on my XC rig.

[BareFootMeshback]

I think the watershed would be one where you could just show up and go exploring. I'm sure someone on here can tell you how to get there. I haven't been there in years. I remember it being fun though. Largely flat, with small rises.

[G-spot]

Well this is not just a riding trip ,visiting the in-laws and showing some friends around who have never been.I've ride seymour before and the bike park in whislter. My friends are mainly XC,ers and are not in to the Freeride thing ,but do not mind Xc-dhing.

[Couch_Surfer]

if those are the shore's best XC trails then you've just proven my point.

all those trails are either rocky and beat to shit and/OR essentially straight downhill with very little in terms of rolling terrain and uphills.

if you want to call that xc, fine. but to most people who dont ride the shore that would be pedalling uphills to ride shore gnar ...

Heaven forbid - I'm going to actually have to agree with Giggler on this.
Did bridle path for the first time in 12 years this weekend and while it was super fun to do that again, compared to some of the gorgeous long XC rides in Squamish or Whistler, it's no contest.

Lots of fun, but there is better XC than the NS mountains.

[Testy]

Well this is not just a riding trip ,visiting the in-laws and showing some friends around who have never been.I've ride seymour before and the bike park in whislter. My friends are mainly XC,ers and are not in to the Freeride thing ,but do not mind Xc-dhing.

Good to know, If you can spare 3 random days, I'd say:
Whistler for a day, (ride River Runs Through It both directions in the am then Bikepark in the pm)
Squamish for a day, (you can put together a pretty epic XC loop of 40 plus km out of Alice Lake)
And in Vancouver hit Fromme for a half day, ( climb up then down Pipeline, back up then down Natural High) Both of these won't kill you on an all xc / all mountain bike if you chose a walk around in a couple places.

By contacting the local clubs you'll definitely be able to get hold of a couple locals to ride with. May cost a pint or two.

[G-spot]

Testy, that sounds about what we want to do and I contacted one club ,who said that i had to join the club if I want it to ride with them. I know that is not tipical of most club ,and an still looking around. I did get one member from this forum to say they would meet up and ride with us. and hope to meet some more of the locals up there, as in one day the wife and I plan on moving up to the Vancouver area.

[Testy]

Testy, that sounds about what we want to do and I contacted one club ,who said that i had to join the club if I want it to ride with them. I know that is not tipical of most club ,and an still looking around. .

Yup not typical of most clubs at all, you must have a butthead on the other end of the dialogue. You wont have any problems finding a few locals on this board to ride with in each location. Hell, me and my buds will take you guys out in the shore trails. And I have lots of riding buddies in Squamish to hook you up with. Post again closer to arrival, and pm me some details and I'll hook you up.

[Tom]

Another vote for squamish.

[M.A.X]

if those are the shore's best XC trails then you've just proven my point.

all those trails are either rocky and beat to shit and/OR essentially straight downhill with very little in terms of rolling terrain and uphills.

if you want to call that xc, fine. but to most people who dont ride the shore that would be pedalling uphills to ride shore gnar ...

I totally agree with TheGiggler on that one. XC on the shore just feels so forced...sure you can ride uphill on many of the trails but it does not remotely compare to rolling smooth flowy up/down singletrack in whistler or squamish. If you say those 'flowy' trails are too easy and not technical and thus you ride 'shore xc' I would then recommend you go ride Comfortably Numb in whistler...that's a technical XC trail that was built for bikers from the ground up and although it's very demanding and technical it still has flow and is simply EPIC. I love comfortably numb...

[TylerDurden]

I totally agree with TheGiggler on that one. XC on the shore just feels so forced...sure you can ride uphill on many of the trails but it does not remotely compare to rolling smooth flowy up/down singletrack in whistler or squamish. If you say those 'flowy' trails are too easy and not technical and thus you ride 'shore xc' I would then recommend you go ride Comfortably Numb in whistler...that's a technical XC trail that was built for bikers from the ground up and although it's very demanding and technical it still has flow and is simply EPIC. I love comfortably numb...


Anybody see a common trend in the replies to this thread? I mean, isn't it time trail work efforts move away from re-buffing boogeyman, and building something XC ? We've got so much choice for tech trail, and so little flowy XC trails. Oh, and here's a hint: if average riders can't ride their hardtails down it with their seat up, clipped in, without blood spilling, it's not XC.

I know there's been great efforts on Crink'em etc., but obviously it hasn't gone far enough or else you guys wouldn't be telling everyone to head straight to Squamish.

I don't mean to derail this thread, just couldn't help but notice the common comment from posters about the state of affairs....

[LeeLau]

tyler

North Van terrain just doesn't lend itself to XC. Try to find a flattish piece of land without houses on it or better still any land where you can get permission to build a classic xc trail. I know where you're coming from but it ain't going anywhere

[taprider]

why does XC have to be easy?

not all routes at the Whistler Mtn Bike Park are black diamond, so freeride does not automatically mean hard and technical, and xc does not automatically mean non-tech and easy.

much of the single track in the Squamish Gearjammer course is similar in difficulty to Leppard, Griffen, Neds and Bridal Bath.

just call the North Shore trails Black Diamond XC and see how that messes with MBA's pursuit to relable "freeride" as black diamond

although I do enjoy that Shore trails that have been buffed (on my 24lb xc race bike with 1.95" tires) such as Dempsy-Braemar, Pipeline and the upper part of Lower Oil Can (upper lower oil can or is lower upper oil can?) these became rideable downhill for intermediate "local" XC'ers and rideable uphill by advanced "local" XC'ers.

Bridal Path has a reputation as either being easy or hard. Sure even a beginner freerider can ride every downhill part without trouble, but you would have to be pretty advanced and fit (XC'er, trailrider, freerider what ever) to ride it all non-stop.

[sridout]

If your coming up from the states stop at Galbraith outside Bellingham in Washinghton, miles and miles of trails. For long distant XC goto Sqaumish and Roberts Creek on the Sunshine Coast. As far as the club thing goes, it's not that don't want you ride with them, it's that it's that you need the club insurace. Something goes bad and 1 jack-ass sues the club, and there is no insurance, say by to the club. The good news there is no shortage of individaul riders who would more than happy to show you around.

[TylerDurden]

tyler

North Van terrain just doesn't lend itself to XC. Try to find a flattish piece of land without houses on it or better still any land where you can get permission to build a classic xc trail. I know where you're coming from but it ain't going anywhere

Remember Old Buck in '97? Look at it now. Granted, that's bit extreme for buffing, but you get the point. It is possible in our terrain, and there just has to be the will to do it. Sorry Lee, don't buy the terrain argument.

[gary j]

tyler

North Van terrain just doesn't lend itself to XC. Try to find a flattish piece of land without houses on it or better still any land where you can get permission to build a classic xc trail. I know where you're coming from but it ain't going anywhere

what a load of crap!!!!

NS "trails" don't lend themselves to XC, not the terrain.

most lines on the NS were hand picked to be the hardest possible way down the hill. steeps, rock faces etc.

don't get me wrong; it's perfect and i wouldn't want it to change for all the XC trails in Moab.

the north shore is not steep; look in the woods on fromme; flat open terrian that could host a great two way switchback trail for families and beginners. the seymour path could so easily support a 20+ km loop trail to the hatchery and back.

the terrain exists. but the elders wanted gnar and that's what we've got.

if you want a vacation full of lycra and hammerfests go to moab. if you want to best-hardest-most tech-well constructed trails on the planet, here they are.


disclaimer: there is still tons quality XC on the north shore and especially in the surrounding communities. and great folks that will gladly take you out.

[gary j]

but lee is right. permission is the stumbling block

[TylerDurden]

What sounds better: "come on out and help the elders keep their gnar trails in shape" or "come on out and get active in trails that matter to you, because we represent all riders". ?

The internal will, amongst mtb'ers, must be there before we can begin to seek permission from land managers. Trouble is, the new-to-sport riders (ie high schoolers, spouses etc) don't have a voice like that of the elders.

I think more and more this lack of trail type is going to be the "big elephant in the room", particularly as bike parks and DJ areas grow.

[LeeLau]

I'm not looking to get a hostile argument here. Just stating my first hand experience with hiking and biking in this terrain and other parts of the world a fair bit and trying to get permission to build here.

Tyler am I putting words in your mouth when i say that you are talking about what I call easy xc or maybe xc in the more conventional sense?

To get my definitions out of the way, Taprider and I consider Pipeline and Seventh to be XC. For most people I would submit that our definition of what is XC might be a bit over the top. Frankly, I find there's a lot of terrain in North Van that I ride all lycra'ed up on a ti hardtail with 3" of travel and by my definitions, any trail I can do that on is an XC trail. But we're not talking about my definitions i believe.

I would submit that most North Van terrain does not lend itself easily to conventional XC.

When I say terrain I mean terrain that's open for building.

You could easily put a nice XC loop into the flattish bench leading up Mosquito Creek from the water for example. Problem is that it is surrounded by schools, houses, etc.

Another place that would have a great XC loop is the SDF area near the LSCR - problem is that it's a demonstration forest.

Another great place is the flat benches running at about the 500m elevation mark above British Properties and Millstream. Problem is that its slated for development/

Another great place is the entire watershed behind Capilano. Problem is that its a watershed.

See what I mean?

[LeeLau]

and tyler - I'll be blunt. If you want to do something about this then you'd better think about organizing the effort yourself.

[sridout]

10 years ago riding up to Neds then going down it was what I considered a XC ride, but that was when there was still loam on it. It used to be kinda like the trails on the SSC. Not the same expeirence today.

[gary j]

but well said

[gary j]

What sounds better: "come on out and help the elders keep their gnar trails in shape" or "come on out and get active in trails that matter to you, because we represent all riders". ?

The internal will, amongst mtb'ers, must be there before we can begin to seek permission from land managers. Trouble is, the new-to-sport riders (ie high schoolers, spouses etc) don't have a voice like that of the elders.

I think more and more this lack of trail type is going to be the "big elephant in the room", particularly as bike parks and DJ areas grow.

seeing as this year's trail days have had around 100 participants i would have to go with gnar. it seems to me that the majority of builders and volunteers like theshore the way it is.

i hear you loud and clear tyler. i live on the north shore and primarily pedal an XC bike. with the loss of krinkum my options (XC vs. total trail network) are quite limited. and like lee, my take on XC riding is probably a little different than the average.

[heckler]

The internal will, amongst mtb'ers, must be there before we can begin to seek permission from land managers. Trouble is, the new-to-sport riders (ie high schoolers, spouses etc) don't have a voice like that of the elders.


yes you do!

Come to NSMBA members meetings and volunteer. There is a lot of new blood being infused. There's just only so much a few people can do, no matter what thier age.

[TylerDurden]

yes you do!

Come to NSMBA members meetings and volunteer. There is a lot of new blood being infused. There's just only so much a few people can do, no matter what thier age.


Bin there done that, and what was clear was that the status quo is here to stay. Been to trail days, been to the meetings, been to their AGM's. It's the elders (and their followers), and the elders want it to stay the same, and hence ex-members like myself are alienated. Meanwhile, I hear school-series teachers commenting on the lack of XC trails, and everyone here was saying skip the shore and head to squamish etc....obviously Pipeline and 7th aren't cutting it for this audience.

I'm not trying to keep the trails hard for me and my riding - I trying to open the sport up to be more inclusive to local ridership or attract new riders.

[Testy]

Holy Derailment Batman!

But I'll chime in, Lee's right, because of Terrain "and" Access issues Fromme, Seymour and Cypress are today pretty much impossible to establish a new XC network to rival Squamish or Whistler, SSC etc. Maybe twenty years ago this could have been accomplished but not now.

I'm amazed though, that any biker living in the lower mainland has anything to complain about regarding the trail network we are blessed with here.

We've got lower Seymour and Fromme trails, Burke,SFU etc etc etc for quick evening XC rips.
We've got upper Seymour, Cypress, Fromme, Eagle etc etc etc for quick evening freeride rips.

We've got any combination of the above for all day rides.

We've got SSC, Squamish, Whistler , Vedder, etc etc etc for epic day trips (either xc or freeride)where we can ride all day and still be home in the eve.

EVERY mountain I've described above is within 90 minutes of any home in the lower mainland and most are within 45 minutes. Alot of it can be ridden year round.

Quit Bitching.

[heckler]

fine, then I guess you'll be organizing something yourself Tyler.

[LeeLau]

Wish you success tyler.

[synchro]

If an XC race is held on a trail it is therefore XC:... Dales ...are all xc trails


:lol::lol::lol:

[synchro]

Bin there done that, and what was clear was that the status quo is here to stay. Been to trail days, been to the meetings, been to their AGM's. It's the elders (and their followers), and the elders want it to stay the same, and hence ex-members like myself are alienated. Meanwhile, I hear school-series teachers commenting on the lack of XC trails, and everyone here was saying skip the shore and head to squamish etc....obviously Pipeline and 7th aren't cutting it for this audience.

I'm not trying to keep the trails hard for me and my riding - I trying to open the sport up to be more inclusive to local ridership or attract new riders.

i've been wating to put in a nice xc loop on seymour for a few years. lscr would like it to happen to. the reason it won't work is not terrain or politics, but us the riders.

what tdo you think would happen to a nice open, flowly singletrack xc descent with wide open corners? dh speed demons would take it over and turn it into freeway. any doubters? anyone remember a trail called ned's? the shore is what it is, and if you want nice xc unfortunately you have to go off the shore.

[sanrensho]

what tdo you think would happen to a nice open, flowly singletrack xc descent with wide open corners? dh speed demons would take it over and turn it into freeway.

This man speaketh the truth. It would be like Old Buck on a busy day with DH sleds bombing down.

[gary j]

if the trail didn't have shuttle access, and was rolling terrain, (like the LSCR) it keep those lazy downhillers off of it.

NSMBA honch richard juren has been pushing for this trail for a long time now, lets hope he is successful.


counterpoint: most DH racers that i know don't ride two way trails. too dangerous and too scary. you mostly (don't) see them riding out of the way trails like on cypress and such.

fromme = old school mountain bikers
seymour = shuttle whores
cypress = rowdy gnar junkies
lynn headwaters = family trails

[synchro]

if the trail didn't have shuttle access, and was rolling terrain, (like the LSCR) it keep those lazy downhillers off of it.

NSMBA honch richard juren has been pushing for this trail for a long time now, lets hope he is successful.


counterpoint: most DH racers that i know don't ride two way trails. too dangerous and too scary. you mostly (don't) see them riding out of the way trails like on cypress and such.

fromme = old school mountain bikers
seymour = shuttle whores
cypress = rowdy gnar junkies
lynn headwaters = family trails

sure, but seymour is the most obvious choice as the landowners are willing to work with the mtb community. cypress is a possibility but you won't get the elevation to make it worthwhile because of land ownwership rights with BPP and the road layout kinda screws it up too. plus it'll never happen on fromme, or at least not in the forseeable future anyways.

[taprider]

there is a way to do two-way trails on steep side hill on the Shore

there must be frequent ups on the down and down on the ups
there must be frequent tight radius turns and narrow areas (no fast flow for the downhill) and don't make the trails wide but have frequent parallel single track to allow two way and passing,

go around both sides of a tree rather than removing trees or re-routing around tightly spaced trees, use a skinny on one side and a tight radius turn on the other to ease the gradient (the roots of the tree can still be protected).

overall, have enough technical terrain features that slow down the flow of the descenders without making it too technically difficult
ramps steeper on the uphill side than the downhill side
pinches before and after switchbacks, but a large turning platform to do your 180 (the switchback would be easy slow but very difficult fast, such as some corners on the Power House Plunge

The end of Recycle in Squamish is a starting point for a reference, just add parallel single track to be two way

[TheGiggler]

as people have stated, the difficulties in terrain and in keeping peple from bombing it as a DH course can be overcome. the real reason is that no group of people have been able to get the landowners on board, and for good reason. and as mentioned, it's about 100X easier to build fall line trails than xc trails.

synchro says Fromme is out of the question, but IMO, fromme has huge potential as a) the terrain is relatively mellow for any traversing trails (there already are some) and b) it isn't a shuttleable mountain. and as taprider said, if you make the trail so that it has rolling up/downs when ridden in both directions, the pedalling involved to keep your speed up will keep almost all the speed demons off it.

the big problem here is getting the land owners on board, getting funding (massive dollars needed -- think a shitload of bridges and rock work no matter where youbuild), etc.

Tyler, when was the last NSMBA meeting you attended? with the new influx of people and directors to NSMBA, maybe you might want to consider getting involved again. I know Richard like this plan, so what is needed is a group of peple to run with it, write a proposal, get a grant, etc ,etc. or we could just sit on the interweb and talk shit about the NSMBA people who are working their asses off on our behalf :rolleyes:

[gary j]

i honestly believe the demonstration forest is the ticket for a great XC trail.
perfect terrain.
easy access for construction
willing land managers
and great facilities once the trail is open.

fromme is a non starter. there is a moratorium on new trail construction
seymour will never make good XC because you can drive to the top.

[TheGiggler]

fromme is a non starter. there is a moratorium on new trail construction



sure fromme is still under-going the Alpine Rec plan, but i'm talking long term. by the time this is really rolling, the situation on fromme will have changed drastically.

honestly, the location is not the issue, by any means.

the issue is that no one has stepped up to form a group that will head this project. look at how Sharon raised all that money for work on CBC and BP and that was her first efforts at grant writing. with the right group and hard work, a shitload of money could be raised to make this happen. and when that happens, i highly doubt the landowners will raise obstacales against having a sustainable xc trail.

face it, 90% of our current trails are fall-line barely-sustainable lines. the future of the shore will not be in these lines as they take a shit-kicking every time it rains. the future of sustainable riding is switchbacked "xc" trails where you can actually divert water off of them and control erosion. sooner or later the landowners will clue in to this fact and realize that a real xc loop will not only make the sport more inclusive to beginners, but it will also be much more sustainable long-term.

you guys may think i'm out to lunch, but ask Sharon about how she raised like 30gs for trail work in one year on her first effort. the money can be found, and once the funds are there i'm sure that the LSCR would be on board if the the DNV still hasn't figured out that this would be about the best thing that could happen to fromme.

anyways

[gary j]

i was speaking short term.

and i agree 100% that a two-way XC trail is exactly what fromme needs.

we live right at the base and there are very few trails my wife can even ride. and after 1000 or so trips up that road, i can honestly say i won't miss that climb.

i'm not much of a grant writer but would be the first in line to build this line.

[ChunkyMonkey]

seymour will never make good XC because you can drive to the top.
What if you made the trail such that it's not shuttleable? Perhaps a loop type of trail that starts & finishes off the BP or Bridal and is equally difficult in either direction. If there aren't any long DH sections, and loads of low-speed switchbacking for any steep sections, there won't be a shuttlewhore issue. You could also put a 15k+ section in the middle that has no bailout - ala CNumb. This will also help keep the traffic down.

All adds up to an instant classic XC on the shore. Probable - no. Possible - absolutely.

[sanrensho]

What if you made the trail such that it's not shuttleable?

A long trail running along the east side of Seymour River would be nice. Something with lots of up/downs and maybe a flat trail running parallel to the river (a la Fisherman's) as a concession and bail out track.

[brian]

I ride Fisherman's a fair bit abd for the first time went on the Spur 4 road the other night. looks like the terrain could be ok in there and having to ride Fisherman's first or the bike path would be a good warm up and deter the big bikes. Sanrensho's right that a trail on the east side would be good. I think you would have to start it around Bottletop and go north.

[heckler]

and i agree 100% that a two-way XC trail is exactly what fromme needs.



have you tried the BP? I rode it east from LOC last week on my Fuel, and had to turn around a couple times to ride it back and forth.

yes, short, but it's a great rip on a light bike.

[sanrensho]

I think you would have to start it around Bottletop and go north.

*Still dreaming* I haven't looked at the topo data, but they could start it right at the Twin Bridges crossing and begin a long, sharp climb from there. That would really discourage any big bikes, as well as discourage riders dropping in from Bottletop.

BTW, how far did you go up Spur 4? I've gone that way a few times and it seemed to end pretty quickly at the service road on a steep climb. (I might be completely mixed up on the directions.)

[brian]

I only thought from Bottletop because you would end up in the same area if going from Twin Bridges. plus there's a cliff band right by the bridges. if you put a switchback climb up a few hundred feet that deter a few people.

I rode to around the 8km sign and ran across a bear but not sure if it was the Spur road. a gravel road heading that way. pretty fun on a cross bike.

[Ninja]

I like the direction this thread is headed.

I'd come out of the woodwork for something like this.

[LeeLau]

the issue is that no one has stepped up to form a group that will head this project.

It's a good thing we have tyler durden who will head this effort up.

[Smoke]

if you want to call that xc, fine. but to most people who dont ride the shore that would be pedalling uphills to ride shore gnar ...

Finally, someone gets it. No, there aren't any gently rolling pleasant little ups and downs with latte stands and cute shoe stores amidst the bunnies and the flowers.

Wipe off the lipstick and SUCK IT UP, PRINCESS. They're ALL XC trails.

[taprider]

Finally, someone gets it. No, there aren't any gently rolling pleasant little ups and downs with latte stands and cute shoe stores amidst the bunnies and the flowers.

Wipe off the lipstick and SUCK IT UP, PRINCESS. They're ALL XC trails.

:smokey: you made me LMFGO (there must be a smilie for that some where)

[gary j]

Finally, someone gets it. No, there aren't any gently rolling pleasant little ups and downs with latte stands and cute shoe stores amidst the bunnies and the flowers.

Wipe off the lipstick and SUCK IT UP, PRINCESS. They're ALL XC trails.

ya smoke you're the gnarliest ripper to ever shred the shore.

but wait a minute, isn't your job to "sell" mountain biking in BC?

we're not talking about rides that can be done on little bikes, we are talking about trials that beginners can progress on.

i, for one think it's ironic that i live at he base of fromme and have to drive to take my wife, (who is new to the sport) for a ride.

[Smoke]

ya smoke you're the gnarliest ripper to ever shred the shore.

but wait a minute, isn't your job to "sell" mountain biking in BC?

we're not talking about rides that can be done on little bikes, we are talking about trials that beginners can progress on.

i, for one think it's ironic that i live at he base of fromme and have to drive to take my wife, (who is new to the sport) for a ride.

No I think you're missing the point. I AM selling BC mountain biking. I just don't think you're interested in it.

The Shore is NOT XC.
The Shore is NOT DH.
The Shore is NOT Freeride.

The Shore is the Shore.
The Shore is technical.
The Shore is demanding.

See, what gets me is that after 10 years of bs, hype, and propaganda, nobody seems to understand what the Shore is. If you want to ride buffed XC singletrack, move to Idaho or Arizona or California. That's where that kind of riding was made famous, and for a good reason. You don't see phrases like "forgiving" and "fun for grandma, too" when people describe the Shore.

Or, as my Limey friends like to say..."Complete bollocks." The real world is just that...real. Look at the North Shore. Right now. See that? Big gnarly mountains covered in rain and trees and rocks and all kinds of glaciated madness and canyons and roots and washouts. Think you can ride a bike on that? See, its a bit of a throwdown, like telemark skiing or freeclimbing. There's better ways of doing it, but it's the challenge that makes the Shore worthwhile.

Every trail on the Shore can be ridden up to. That makes them as XC as they come. There's PLENTY of easy trails. Especially within easy pedaling of your place.

It looks to me like you're actually suffering from the once commom misconception that women are somehow weaker and inferior to men on the trails. Or are you afraid that your wife might school you on the gnar if she gets a taste of it?

Come on man. I AM promoting the sport. But I won't ever try to promote it for what it's not. Just open your mind and expand your horizons. Quit trying to force the sport into some lame artificial category that was dreamt up by a marketing geek to make a crappy bike look tuff. Pretty soon you'll find out something....

The Shore is fun.

[gary j]

i think you, and anyone that has ridden with me will agree that i can handle all the shore has to offer and enjoy every minute of it.

after all, i moved to the shore, not from it.

and "bullocks" to the thought of me thinking women can't handle gnar like men. my wife regularly hands me my ass when we go climbing.


there are more than enough trails for me to enjoy on the shore, XC or otherwise. what i am talking about are trails riders can progress on. so my wife can one day rip UOC.


we don't have to agree, it's just my opinion

[Smoke]

Disagreements are the best reason to hang out on BB's. I hate it when everybody agrees. So boring....

I guess I should stop picking on you so much tho. This is twice now.

Ahhh, well...progression sessions. Healer, then Bridle, then the Dick, then pretty much anything. Don't forget about Camp Brick and that area too. Super close to your place, and not ridden much.

I usually take the noobs to CBC right away, but they've got a different timeline. Normally they're just here for one day, so I figure even if they walk lots its still worth seeing. In 5 years of guiding, we only had 3 riders who were completely useless. Essentially everyone else picked it up within 40 minutes and generally really liked it. Most of the time, it was the "experienced" riders who hard the hardest time adapting. People with no preconcieved ideas took to it like college chicks to soy milk. Folks who were looking for "XC" riding got lots of questions about their expectations and a fair amount of instruction before starting. 2 people ended up going kayaking instead.

Now, if you know where to look....there's some excellent moderate terrain suitable for more conservative approaches, but that's about all I'd be able to spill about that in a place as public as an internet forum.

About that rant.....when you see as many people as I do complain about the Shore, it rankles pretty quick. On the other hand, I know this valley about 3 or 4 hours from the Shore that is literally covered with smooth singletrack like this....

http://www.bushpilotbiking.com/gallery/albums/wpw-20070419/April-18_5.jpg

[Hack On Wheels]

*snip*
Ahhh, well...progression sessions. Healer, then Bridle, then the Dick, then pretty much anything. Don't forget about Camp Brick and that area too.
*snip*
About that rant.....when you see as many people as I do complain about the Shore, it rankles pretty quick. On the other hand, I know this valley about 3 or 4 hours from the Shore that is literally covered with smooth singletrack like this....

http://www.bushpilotbiking.com/gallery/albums/wpw-20070419/April-18_5.jpg

Smoke, that photo was really not fair! I didn't need to see somthing like that. Now I just want to head out your way and ride those trails. Damnit! :fu:
Ah well, that is what the summer is for!

Oh and thanks for the tips on "progression sessions," while they weren't meant for me, I think they would be good for getting a novice friend out on the shore. I always tend to think of Fromme for easier trails, and I completely forget about Bridle and Severed and such.

[G-spot]

Nice photo Smoke and the back drop looks good too.I'm still planning on riding up there this summer, and one year I maybe able to make it up to the new location.

[TylerDurden]

Ok, so I saw Smoke & client crew yesterday as I rode some of the Lower Seymour XC trails that the dedicated NSMBA volunteers have poured their efforts into along with the District and LCSR staff (?). It dawned on my thick skulls that these dedicated groups have indeed done a lot for our xc trail scene, and that we're pretty lucky to have what we got so close to the city.

This is truly a privaledge for the local riders and I want to shout out my appologies if I've miff'd any of the hard working NSMBA members, past or present ,with my comments. I hope to help maintain these trails in the coming months as trails days arise and raise a glass to you all for efforts to date.

Rubber side down,
Mike

[enduramil]

No I think you're missing the point. I AM selling BC mountain biking. I just don't think you're interested in it.

The Shore is NOT XC.
The Shore is NOT DH.
The Shore is NOT Freeride.

The Shore is the Shore.
The Shore is technical.
The Shore is demanding.

See, what gets me is that after 10 years of bs, hype, and propaganda, nobody seems to understand what the Shore is. If you want to ride buffed XC singletrack, move to Idaho or Arizona or California. That's where that kind of riding was made famous, and for a good reason. You don't see phrases like "forgiving" and "fun for grandma, too" when people describe the Shore.

Or, as my Limey friends like to say..."Complete bollocks." The real world is just that...real. Look at the North Shore. Right now. See that? Big gnarly mountains covered in rain and trees and rocks and all kinds of glaciated madness and canyons and roots and washouts. Think you can ride a bike on that? See, its a bit of a throwdown, like telemark skiing or freeclimbing. There's better ways of doing it, but it's the challenge that makes the Shore worthwhile.

Every trail on the Shore can be ridden up to. That makes them as XC as they come. There's PLENTY of easy trails. Especially within easy pedaling of your place.

It looks to me like you're actually suffering from the once commom misconception that women are somehow weaker and inferior to men on the trails. Or are you afraid that your wife might school you on the gnar if she gets a taste of it?

Come on man. I AM promoting the sport. But I won't ever try to promote it for what it's not. Just open your mind and expand your horizons. Quit trying to force the sport into some lame artificial category that was dreamt up by a marketing geek to make a crappy bike look tuff. Pretty soon you'll find out something....

The Shore is fun.


Women are weaker? Maybe if you are dealing with one of those Shaughnessy women who think that real coffee comes from Starbucks and think that taking in the groceries from the car is a real workout.

[G-spot]

Looks like I will be riding on the 5 of Sept, up at Squamish, and trying to do a day at Whislter along with a day in Vancouver (not sure where yet?) maybe delta water shed, burnibey Mt.(msp), or surry bike park?

[skifreak]

the island has some great xc riding if you ever make a trip back up to BC.

[Six]

The Shore is NOT XC.
The Shore is NOT DH.
The Shore is NOT Freeride.

The Shore is the Shore.
The Shore is technical.
The Shore is demanding.

The Shore is fun.

Smoke, I think this a really good way to classify the riding over there. Don't get me wrong...I'm a total XC guy and nothing gives me a riding wood like a ribbon of flowy singletrack stretching over the horizon but I also really love the techincal aspect of the Shore. I read a post where someone mentioned how the Shore was like "inching a long in an Ewok forest"...that made me laugh but it's so true and that is the magic over there. I think adding conventional XC trail over there would be cool (and I don't mean a friggin gravel path...thats not XC that's pathetic) but it's going against what the Shore is. I'm pretty happy to fall off my bike up there and if I want some Epic or what ever I'll head up to Squamish or the chick and I will head up to Whistler for a weekend.