New Bullit is here

[cam@nsmb.com]

It looks pretty sweet.

2007 Bullit (http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/mail/2007bullit.html)

[APT]

Looks good. Pretty much addressed all the shortcomings on the old frame. Looks pretty similar to the old one though. However, I do have to wonder........at US$1200 maybe there are just too many other options at that price these days?

[DaveM]

Looks good.

With the 150mm rear, floating brake, lifetime pivot bearing warranty and 1.5 headtube, it looks like they've addressed pretty much every complaint about the old Bullit while still keeping the familiar styling (albiet with a few changes).

*edit*

Hey Poser, thanks for posting almost exactly what I had to say, but typing it out faster :lol:

[Geologyboy]

Awful lotta hype for a single pivot design that has been around for a long time.

[Buzom]

Looks awsome..

[APT]

Awful lotta hype for a single pivot design that has been around for a long time.

What did you expect? There's not much you can do to alter a single pivot.

[APT]

Looks good.

With the 150mm rear, floating brake, lifetime pivot bearing warranty and 1.5 headtube, it looks like they've addressed pretty much every complaint about the old Bullit while still keeping the familiar styling (albiet with a few changes).

*edit*

Hey Poser, thanks for posting almost exactly what I had to say, but typing it out faster :lol:

I beat you by 4 minutes.

[DaveM]

I beat you by 4 minutes.

Now you know my typing speed!

As far as Geology's comment. The Bullit was a huge seller for SC with a strong, almost cult like following. They didn't need to change much, there's other models for that (Nomad, VPFree) they just needed to update it.

Hopefully (for SC) technology (or the marketability of technology) hasn't surpassed the Bullit in it's absence.

[trail worker]

I found my 04 bullit to be a great bike despite the single pivot. The main thing it suffered from was lateral stiffness and a bit of brake jack, and it looks like SC has adressed the problems fairly well. I don't know if I'll buy another one, but at that price for frame only it's a pretty smokin deal. Then and again for another chunk of cash the VP-free is preeeetty nice.

[Geologyboy]

I didn't expect them to change much. I know it is a solid frame, best bud rides one can't say enough good.

I was more surpised about the amount of hype the frame was getting. The did some minor fixes, but this isn't anything revolutionary. Yet we were treated to spy photos, a launch website, front page news. They got a lot of milage out of the rerelase of this frame. Good advertising on their part.

[nouseforaname]

What? - LIFETIME BEARING REPLACEMENT - that is huge. If they had kept the old design and only done that, then that would have been a huge step up. Does anyone else offer this?

I am stoked to see them finally release it - looks like its going to be a huge hit - build it how you want, a do it all bike just like the nomad, but half the cost.

[StefB]

Wow.

Really impressed with the new out-board-bearing-like setup for the main pivot.

Any more info on that Cam? Are all model's going to be re-vised with that setup?

The short bearing life that people have always complained about with the VP bikes might be thing of the past.

Good move SC.

[apeshape]

Yep, Its a Bullit.

I really liked my 03 but I am sucker for the VP suspension now so I kinda wish SC had made a 6" VP ride out of it but this new version should satisfy the Bullit-core.The lifetime warranty is just pure customer satisfaction guaranteed from the good bikes people at SC.

[Wayne P]

A good single pivot is as good as anything. I think people are reading way too many magazines.

[cheryl@nsmb.com]

I think that people who love the Bullit, will always love a Bullit. They ride really nice and if you are a Bullit guy, you shouldn't ride anything else.

[Jeff M]

A good single pivot is as good as anything. I think people are reading way too many magazines.


Agreed, how many people even take the time really to set up their suspension? Not the 5 minute parking lot preload and rebound bounce around, but studying some theory actually dialing in each setting. But they'll know all the supposed advantages and disadvantages of miniscule differences in wheel path.

I like the new Bullit. All the updates the frame needed, none it didn't. And the lifetime bearing warantee is huge. It even has a floating brake for people who think they need it.

I personally would have liked to see longer/lower geometry on the frames, but obviously the current geo has been working for lots of people.

[Trini-dad72]

I like it. Stiff looking bearing and swingarm set up. Revised frame design, well slightly anyway... 7" of travel, looks like a great bike for all reasons and seasons to me.

[Wayne P]

Agreed, how many people even take the time really to set up their suspension? Not the 5 minute parking lot preload and rebound bounce around, but studying some theory actually dialing in each setting. But they'll know all the supposed advantages and disadvantages of miniscule differences in wheel path.

I like the new Bullit. All the updates the frame needed, none it didn't. And the lifetime bearing warantee is huge. It even has a floating brake for people who think they need it.

I personally would have liked to see longer/lower geometry on the frames, but obviously the current geo has been working for lots of people.

You're right on the money. Dave Turner proved that there's minimal differences between a well placed single pivot vs. Horst link. The shock's damping makes the most difference. That's great news for the consumer.

And remember, this bike is for people who want it and like it, not for those who don't.

[biggles604]

I didn't expect them to change much. I know it is a solid frame, best bud rides one can't say enough good.

I was more surpised about the amount of hype the frame was getting. The did some minor fixes, but this isn't anything revolutionary. Yet we were treated to spy photos, a launch website, front page news. They got a lot of milage out of the rerelase of this frame. Good advertising on their part.

Santa Cruz is the master of the hype, and a formidable marketting machine. They do have some really good ideas though, such as the availability of very reasonably priced bearing kits and bearing removal tools for their bikes in the online store. I wish more companies would go that route.

That said, as far as single pivot goes, this bike is innovative as I have seen them, the outboard bearing idea is really good, and it does hit a good price point.

Whoever said it before hit it on the head, Bullit owners are almost a cult, I never liked them, but there are so many people who swear by them and would be repeat customers.

[TheGiggler]

i would bet that bullit w/ floater is almost indistinguishable from the newer VPP bikes on the trail. except for the fact that bullit won't need pivot maintenance every few months (if you ride hard and frequently).

as for the floater ... just cause pro's don't need them doesn't mean they have no application for regular riders who do not have either the speed or breaking points of a pro.

i would tend to agree with those who say SC did a good job on this one. next up, i'd like to see them re-do the Heckler with 1.5 headtube and optional floater ...

PS, it's brake SQUAT, nor brake jack.

[IFO]

looks good all over except at the headtube junction..

that goofy bend really throws off the symetry, and almost makes the design look liek they tried to correct a angle problem at the last minute..

[partswhore]

That would be there for this reason:

"Build it up anywhere between 32 and 44 pounds, climb it like a long travel trail bike, kill it like a freeride bike. It's even built to be bar-spin friendly..."

[pump]

What? - LIFETIME BEARING REPLACEMENT - that is huge. If they had kept the old design and only done that, then that would have been a huge step up. Does anyone else offer this?

I am stoked to see them finally release it - looks like its going to be a huge hit - build it how you want, a do it all bike just like the nomad, but half the cost.

bearings are dirt cheap(NOT FROM BIKE COMPANIES), but from bearing distributers(there is one in coquitlam by silvercity, can't recall the name)

and they probably buy mass quantity= dirt cheap.
it's not a huge attraction for me.

new bullit over 600cdn norco shore frame? SC better offer something better than a set of bearings.

edit*--
im surprised to hear brakejack is not included w/ the frame set.

[trail worker]

Does anyone know the claimed weight of the frame/shock yet?

[big ben]

the single pivot really excites me, I like simple designs like that. I'd like one with a dhx coil and a totem. not too bad a price either...

[Trini-dad72]

Hey, Steed's got a Bullit!!!!!!
I just looked at their Flickr page and it's there, and it's durrty!

[M@M]

non-replaceable hanger?

[Couch_Surfer]

bearings are dirt cheap

cheap bearings are dirt cheap - not all bearings are made to the same standards.

[Chunk]

I didn't expect them to change much. I know it is a solid frame, best bud rides one can't say enough good.

I was more surpised about the amount of hype the frame was getting. The did some minor fixes, but this isn't anything revolutionary. Yet we were treated to spy photos, a launch website, front page news. They got a lot of milage out of the rerelase of this frame. Good advertising on their part.

What hype? I never heard any hype.

I never heard a damn thing about the new frame. No claims, no hype, hardly any speculation. I think most people were EXPECTING huge things. But I NEVER heard any claims about the frame. I think SC went above and beyond on the bullit. I mean, the Nomad is pretty much in the same class as the bullit, but its alot more expensive. Offering the bullit as an inexpensive alternative to the nomad was a great idea.

[Mic]

non-replaceable hanger?

this is weird.

[yoonior]

I think that people who love the Bullit, will always love a Bullit. They ride really nice and if you are a Bullit guy, you shouldn't ride anything else.

Not true.
I ride 2003 Bullit for three full years now and my next bike will have either FSR (read SX Trail) or some sort VPP/DW/Maestro. No more single pivots. Period.

Honestly, I love my Bullit, how it rides uphill, how it's nimble in the air, how medium sizing is ideal for me, this all makes truly do-it-all one bike.

Unfortunately on the other hand I hate it for extremely high BB, horrible suspension stiffening/blocking when riding very technical terrain, hate its chain growth and pedal kick-back when susp cycles thru travel. Hate its small wheelbase and the feeling like you're riding it "high on top of the bike" and not "in" bike.

And I will never agree with anyone who says there's almost no difference of how bike rides with high-single-pivot vs. FSR or VPP-alike.

[Mic]

WOw. YOur English is pretty good, yoonior.

[yoonior]

WOw. YOur English is pretty good, yoonior.

Thanks!
You know, otherwise they wouldn't understand us Euros - the Barbarians :D

[Mic]

Thanks!
You know, otherwise they wouldn't understand us Euros - the Barbarians :D

:lol: :werd: so true...:lol:

[biggles604]

non-replaceable hanger?

SC have always had non replaceable hangers, they claim it makes the derailleur interface stiffer for crisper shifting. I'd still rather replace a $10 part than my der though.

[yoonior]

SC have always had non replaceable hangers, they claim it makes the derailleur interface stiffer for crisper shifting. I'd still rather replace a $10 part than my der though.

New Bullit seems to have reaplaceable dropouts if my eyes don't deceive me :)

[DaveM]

^^^ I believe you're right. It looks to have a similar replaceable dropout system as the Heckler, as opposed to the non-replaceable deal it was before on the Bullit. I wonder if they incorporated a bottle opener on the other side too.

[thewalrus]

A good single pivot is as good as anything. I think people are reading way too many magazines.

Aside from the reasons about licencing costs, I think Gary Fisher agrees with you...

[biggles604]

^^^ I believe you're right. It looks to have a similar replaceable dropout system as the Heckler, as opposed to the non-replaceable deal it was before on the Bullit. I wonder if they incorporated a bottle opener on the other side too.
Yeah, but the derailleur hanger is part of the dropout like all their other bikes.

[CraigH]

as for the floater ... just cause pro's don't need them doesn't mean they have no application for regular riders who do not have either the speed or breaking points of a pro.


I run a floating brake on an old Bullit and where I noticed the biggest improvement is at slow speed, very rough rock faces. A DH pro isn't going to see that kind of feature in a race. That said a certain WC DH champ has been running a floating brake on his bike for the last few years.

[CraigH]

...horrible suspension stiffening/blocking when riding very technical terrain, ...

That is the reason to get run a floating brake. If I hadn't gotten one of the first floating brakes for the Bullit, I would have sold mine and bought something else.

[CraigH]

Hey, Steed's got a Bullit!!!!!!
I just looked at their Flickr page and it's there, and it's durrty!

Link please?

[xy9ine]

That said a certain WC DH champ has been running a floating brake on his bike for the last few years.
though fabien's floater is set up to actually induce more brake squat - supporting the argument that squat can actually be a good thing in some circumstances (ie, counteracts brake dive - sacrifice a bit of suspension compliance under breaking for more stable chassis geometry).

[CraigH]

Ya, I've talked to Brian @ Brake Therapy about that. No one other than Fabien likes it that way though.

Suspension set up for the slow speed FR type of riding here in Vancouver is much different than what a WC DH pro will want.
A few years ago I had a discussion about that with the RockShox service truck guys up at Whistler when they were rebuilding my Boxxer. How they set up a Boxxer for FR or DH is different.

[RossputiN]

Link please?


http://www.flickr.com/photos/94419185@N00

Here you go, but you should really go down before X-mas and have a look at it yourself...much nicer in person. I was there yesterday doing some last minute shopping and the fella told me they have the only one in the lower mainland sofar, and that it's dirty because the boys at the shop have been taking it out for a spin. Unfortunately, no customer test rides alowed. :(

Oh! And it does have the DHX coil and new Totem fork on it....sweeeeeeeet ride.

[CraigH]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/94419185@N00


Thanks for the pic link! +Rep

[yoonior]

That is the reason to get run a floating brake. If I hadn't gotten one of the first floating brakes for the Bullit, I would have sold mine and bought something else.

Simple floating brake will not solve all problems with single pivot's suspension.

My has friend Foes Inferno (Curnutt schock, Ti spring, floating brake - all those bells'n'whistles). I've ridden that bike and although it works better that most of regular single pivots, that's not enough.
Needless to say, my friend wasn't impressed neither. He bought Uzzi VPX then.

I'd say that great rider with excellent technique doesn't really need all that complicated hardware. Peaty was pinning it on Orange which is high single pivot without floating brake. Now he rides VPP suspended V10. He's still fastest man on earth :)

It's us, simple mortals, who ride better and progress faster with more advanced technology. I'm a mere mortal. And you?

[yoonior]

Anyone noticed lack of shock shuttle?

So, there's no way to slacken head angle and lower BB now :(

[CraigH]

Simple floating brake will not solve all problems with single pivot's suspension.

....

It's us, simple mortals, who ride better and progress faster with more advanced technology. I'm a mere mortal. And you?

I never said it would, I was just saying that a FB kept the suspension active under braking.

Less actually. I agree, the fast DH guys would be fast on a bike from Cdn Tire.

[Wayne P]

Also important when making a SP work better is to use a chainring size that lines up with your pivot location. It can make or break the enjoyment of your ride. Its often overlooked by the consumer and manufacturer, but each ring size makes a difference. That's why with a single pivot especially, I would mostly only use one ring. The exception would be with an Appalache/Balfa roller.

Frame design is not where bikes are lacking. Sure one design can be better than another, but mating the appropriate shock to your bike is more crucial. A lot of bike manufacturers put the wrong shocks on their bikes, then people blame the bike design for shitty performance.

Again, if anyone thinks that you've got an advantage on one design over another while riding your backyard trails, then yes you read too many magazines. Racing is different, but like Peatty proves, bike design still doesn't solve much. I'd bet his suspension is re-valved though. The only clear design advantage I see is Santa Cruz's VPP. Not all VPP's, but definitely what they're doing works well (provided you've got the right shock). A crappy shock on a V10 will make it ride like a shopping cart, but another shock will make it shine.

Look at the dirtbike world, they are all using the same basic design, but what's the key differences in them? the shocks and forks. This is still where both mountain bikers and mountain bike manufacturers are behind the MX world. I know MTBs have to deal with pedalling, but good compression damping will counteract most pedalling induced problems without "SPV" or a negative effect on small bump compliance.

[yoonior]

Frame design is not where bikes are lacking. Sure one design can be better than another, but mating the appropriate shock to your bike is more crucial. A lot of bike manufacturers put the wrong shocks on their bikes, then people blame the bike design for shitty performance.

Putting poorly performing shock would ruin best suspension system :)

I'm not an engineer or suspension guru but my old Specialized Big Hit Expert with outdated technologically Fox Vanilla RC easliy outperformed high-zoot Foes Inferno with "the best shock on planet" ie. Curnutt unit.
This means shock innovasion not necessairly is most important thing...

Again, if anyone thinks that you've got an advantage on one design over another while riding your backyard trails, then yes you read too many magazines. Racing is different, but like Peatty proves, bike design still doesn't solve much. I'd bet his suspension is re-valved though. The only clear design advantage I see is Santa Cruz's VPP. Not all VPP's, but definitely what they're doing works well (provided you've got the right shock). A crappy shock on a V10 will make it ride like a shopping cart, but another shock will make it shine.

But again, I suspect that given the same shitty shock, V10 will ride better that most of multi-linkage faux bar systems not mentioning single pivots.
VPP or FSR systems work so well that they really don't need positioning shocks in my opinion. Someone even said that Specialized suffered with Swingers when compared to DHX offered right now.

I don't read too many magazines. And I can definitely feel the difference between my Bullit and Big Hit or Uzzi VPX on 'my' backyard trails ;)

[TheGiggler]

I'm not an engineer or suspension guru but my old Specialized Big Hit Expert with outdated technologically Fox Vanilla RC easliy outperformed high-zoot Foes Inferno with "the best shock on planet" ie. Curnutt unit.
This means shock innovasion not necessairly is most important thing...


this is not really a definitive test ... and as such doesn't really mean much.

- maybe the curnut is blown, defective or badly needign servicing
- maybe the curnutt is "dialled into weirdsville"
- maybe you and you friend are different weights or have different riding styles and his setup doesn't work for you

i know people who have ridden big hits (or other Horst bikes) for years who love the feel of the Foes bikes w/ floaters ... myself included.

[yoonior]

- maybe the curnut is blown, defective or badly needign servicing
- maybe the curnutt is "dialled into weirdsville"
- maybe you and you friend are different weights or have different riding styles and his setup doesn't work for you

None of these.

Maybe it's personal preference or maybe local trail-specific. Where I live and where I ride, will take some FSR/VPP over single pivot. It works for me. It might not work for everyone. But please do not neglect some of technological achivements.

OK. Back to the topic. Bullits are great bikes, that's for sure :D

[Wayne P]

Putting poorly performing shock would ruin best suspension system :)

I'm not an engineer or suspension guru but my old Specialized Big Hit Expert with outdated technologically Fox Vanilla RC easliy outperformed high-zoot Foes Inferno with "the best shock on planet" ie. Curnutt unit.
This means shock innovasion not necessairly is most important thing...



But again, I suspect that given the same shitty shock, V10 will ride better that most of multi-linkage faux bar systems not mentioning single pivots.
VPP or FSR systems work so well that they really don't need positioning shocks in my opinion. Someone even said that Specialized suffered with Swingers when compared to DHX offered right now.

I don't read too many magazines. And I can definitely feel the difference between my Bullit and Big Hit or Uzzi VPX on 'my' backyard trails ;)

The Carnutt is not a shock I would consider a good performer. The RC was an ok shock when it worked, and mated to the right frame, it worked well. It just had limited adjustments. An RC would work better on an Inferno anyway, and would probably feel every bit as good as that FSR of yours.

A DHX vs. a Swinger on something like a VPP? The Swinger is a better performer hands down. A friend of mine and fellow suspension dork, Bryon Enns, tested both the Swinger 4 Way air and the DHX 5 on the same trail on the same day on his V10. His results were that the Swinger easily out performed the Fox on small bump compliance and big hit damping. I trust his judgment as a good racer and engineer.

And what I was eluding to is that, no, not all bike designs are created equally. SC's VPP is a step ahead in mostly all situations, but will it make a difference to your riding or results? Probably not. I was also implying that most FSR bikes (ie: Specialized) are so similar to some common single pivots (ie: Orange) that a properly equipped rear shock is the biggest factor in performance between the two. If anyone feels that a SP is not up to their standards, by all means marketing is a powerful tool.... and maybe they should lay off the brakes a little more?

One of the best uses of a single pivot and high damped rear shock is the Appalache/Balfa BB7. The Swinger was as supple as a Fox RC with much better big hit performance and never suffered too much from the SPV syndrome (it still bobbed). That same shock on my old FSR link Devinci Ollie felt and performed quite shitty. What gives??? ;)

[jpi]

I ride a bike sometimes...when the weather is nice. I know one thing...that bike is green!

[schoenrock]

I ride a bike sometimes...when the weather is nice. I know one thing...that bike is green!
+1!

[JLW124]

If anyone feels that a SP is not up to their standards, by all means marketing is a powerful tool.... and maybe they should lay off the brakes a little more?

I don't think SP is fundamentally 'worse' than any other design, it depends on the application and execution. In the case of the Bullit, the SP design isn't exactly plush.

I've currently got a 2007 DHX5 on my 'old' Bullit, and a 2006 DHX4 on my Ollie. Both are coils. The bikes have similar builds. For DH-style riding when you're standing most of the time the Ollie feels waaaaaaaaaay better irrespective of shock tweaking and tuning. Prior to the DHX5 I had a 5th Element on the Bullit, that made the difference even greater... and yeah, I drag the brake too much ;)

The Bullit feels much more active when not braking and when the rear suspension is properly preloaded (i.e. seated). As such it makes a great all-mountain ride but a so-so DH-ride, at least for me personally.

[Wayne P]

It really needs another inch and a half or two plus slacker angles to be compared to the Ollie.

[JLW124]

The way I've got them set up, the head angles are fairly close.

[DaveM]

I never knew what brake jack was until I sold my Bullit and bought my Norco. It's there, it's real.

Wayne you've rambled down this road so many times it isn't funny. Why can't you accept that for you certain single pivot characteristics aren't a concern, but for others it just might be. There doesn't have to be a definitive right or wrong answer.


ps. Synchro wants to give you a cod.

[Wayne P]

I'm a ramblin' man!

What's good for the goose.... well, you know how it goes.

I've seen Synchro's cod, its a little fishy.

[Dantes Inferno]

Hmm, I might get that. And if I do, I cant wait to kick some DHR ass.