Unsupervised Kids at NSMBA Trail Days

[trouble]

I just thought I would see what people thought about the somewhat increasing amounts of unsupervised kids showing up at trail days. By kids I am thinking about 12 and under or so.

Disclaimer 1: I was not at the CBC trail day as I am currently on the other side of the continent for a week, but I have been at most over the last 2 years.

Disclaimer 2: I am not a grumpy old man, I'm only 25 (maybe I am a grumpy young guy).

Disclaimer 3: I am all for parents bringing their kids up with them.

At the last oilcan trailday this issue seemed to be the largest, but the cynic in me suspects that some parents are dropping kids at the trail day as a means of free daycare and lunch, when in actuality it may not be the safest environment for them. We have people dropping snags in the forest with chainsaws, rolling big rocks down the trail, etc and there are a lot of kids in general going up and down the trail, doing little to no work and possibly putting themselves in a dangerous situation (who by the way aren't old enough to sign the waivers I believe).

Also, less in regards to safety, but these also seem to be the people who are consuming the most trail day resources.

1. Bringing a bunch of tools down the trail and then not using them.
2. Being first in line for food and swag.
3. Announcing that everyone should go up for lunch when its still an hour away. (this only happened once).

Just thought I would throw that one out there to see what people thought about a minimum age (not sure what age it would be exactly) for unsupervised kids at trail days. I think some parents may be getting the idea that trail day organizers have the time to watch after their kids, when they really don't.

[heckler]

I haven't really noticed the 'unsupervised' part. I think it's great that parents are bringing young ones out to instill a sense of community. There were several father/son teams on CBC, and a mother/ 7 yr old team that did awesome work! The little spitfires may not carry huge buckets full of dirt, but they will grow into strong riders that also give back to the trails.

I agree though that parents shouldn't drop a 10 year old off expecting babysitting services, but I really don't think that's happening.

I'm all for 14-15 year olds coming out on thier own, since they're probably riding with thier buds and not thier parents.

Parents - if you have been dropping your kids off, please come with them and help out!

[enduramil]

There is actually a pretty simple solution to this.

That is to have a designated age that is the cut off. So if you are below that age you must have a parent or gaurdian with you. If none you can't be there.

In this day and age one thing gets taken out of context or misinterpreted and the next thing NSMB is on the front page going to court.

[TheGiggler]

Parents - if you have been dropping your kids off, please come with them and help out!



i agree with everything Heckler said.

i have yet to see any unsupervised kids. all the kids i've seen had parents or other "guardians" with them. maybe not during the entire trail day (kids do run around) but there were there.

some of the kids do get in the way, but they are only trying to help, which is a good thing. we have a lack of volunteer trail workers so anything that will get kids into it is a good thing ...

[TheGiggler]

In this day and age one thing gets taken out of context or misinterpreted and the next thing NSMB is on the front page going to court.


it's the nsmbA not nsmb. big diff. sorry but this is a pet peeve of mine.

[enduramil]

it's the nsmbA not nsmb. big diff. sorry but this is a pet peeve of mine.

Sorry, I keep forgetting. Consider it one of the negative's of living and riding too far away from where one belongs.

[thebigchin]

I've been to every trailday but 1 this year. While I often see kids screwing around, they mostly seem to be supervised. In many cases its better to have the kids messing around in the bush than in the middle of rock work.

Its sometimes hard to tell who belongs to who, but I don't think I've seen anyone younger than 12 dropped off and left until the end of the day. Also, any chainsaw work seems to be done with safety as the top priority. I've never seen any people in the fall zone.

As the kids get older and stronger, they'll be come awesome rock workers.

[synchro]

I just thought I would see what people thought about the somewhat increasing amounts of unsupervised kids showing up at trail days. By kids I am thinking about 12 and under or so.

At the last oilcan trailday this issue seemed to be the largest, but the cynic in me suspects that some parents are dropping kids at the trail day as a means of free daycare and lunch, when in actuality it may not be the safest environment for them. We have people dropping snags in the forest with chainsaws, rolling big rocks down the trail, etc and there are a lot of kids in general going up and down the trail, doing little to no work and possibly putting themselves in a dangerous situation (who by the way aren't old enough to sign the waivers I believe).

Also, less in regards to safety, but these also seem to be the people who are consuming the most trail day resources.

1. Bringing a bunch of tools down the trail and then not using them.
2. Being first in line for food and swag.
3. Announcing that everyone should go up for lunch when its still an hour away. (this only happened once).



we have a lack of volunteer trail workers


Have a designated age that is the cut off. So if you are below that age you must have a parent or gaurdian with you. If there is none then you can't be there.

i agree with the initial post. there aren't enough resonsible and educated/aware people on the trail days to do the work required and teach/supervise the uninformed and/or the youths.

our cut-off for showing up by yourself should be the age of majority, 18 i beleive. if you are younger you are welcome to still come out but must show up with a parent or legal guardian.

[thebigchin]

our cut-off for showing up by yourself should be the age of majority, 18 i beleive. if you are younger you are welcome to still come out but must show up with a parent or legal guardian.

So I guess that means that Earl can't come any more unless he brings his mom? That sucks, because he does more work than any two of me.

In all seriousness, tho, I think that 18 is a bit old for the cutoff.

[Testy]

I've been going to traildays fron Van to Squamish for years and have always been greatful to the kids who come out, both youngens with their parents and the teens who come out on their own.

The suggestion that parents are using a trailday for babysitting and a free lunch is ridiculous.

An age cutoff? What's gonna happen if they're "under age"? Do they get kicked off the mountain? Fined? C'mon you guys, most trailsdays are just a bunch of mountainbikers havin fun, giving back, and sustaining our trails, mostly on Crown Land. Give the kids a pail and get them to help dig and carry some gold.
No need for the fun police over thinking traildays. We deal with so much Rules, Regulations and Micromanagement at work and the daily grind we certainly don't need it on a Sunday morning trailday.

End of Rant. Need to ride now...

[LeeLau]

I don't see it as a problem. Not been any baby sitting

[TheGiggler]

So I guess that means that Earl can't come any more unless he brings his mom? That sucks, because he does more work than any two of me.

In all seriousness, tho, I think that 18 is a bit old for the cutoff.


true that. i think anyone who is in high school should be responsable enough to come out on their own.

[synchro]

So I guess that means that Earl can't come any more unless he brings his mom? That sucks, because he does more work than any two of me.

In all seriousness, tho, I think that 18 is a bit old for the cutoff.

ok, well maybe not a parent or legal guardian, but they must come with a responsible adult. you could sponsor earl!

[synchro]

I've been going to traildays fron Van to Squamish for years and have always been greatful to the kids who come out, both youngens with their parents and the teens who come out on their own.

The suggestion that parents are using a trailday for babysitting and a free lunch is ridiculous.

An age cutoff? What's gonna happen if they're "under age"? Do they get kicked off the mountain? Fined? C'mon you guys, most trailsdays are just a bunch of mountainbikers havin fun, giving back, and sustaining our trails, mostly on Crown Land. Give the kids a pail and get them to help dig and carry some gold.
No need for the fun police over thinking traildays. We deal with so much Rules, Regulations and Micromanagement at work and the daily grind we certainly don't need it on a Sunday morning trailday.

End of Rant. Need to ride now...

i think it's a good topic for debate because what if some unsupervised kids are running along the trail or by the trail and get hit by falling debris?

[enduramil]

ok, well maybe not a parent or legal guardian, but they must come with a responsible adult. you could sponsor earl!

Working for the city I can big time see how how many problems this could cause.


Let's face reality, the kids we are talking about are still in the age bracket where if anything goes wrong there could be a major shit storm. Especially if they aren't working with another adult. I don't doubt that Earl works hard. I'm more thinking about how the parents can manipulate or take what they hear from their kids the wrong way.

Say one thing or share something with the kid and the next thing you know it's on the front page of the Globe and Mail and on BCTV about how evil the NSMBA members are and so on.

I want to see the kids out working. However at the same time we must watch our backs.

[thebigchin]

ok, well maybe not a parent or legal guardian, but they must come with a responsible adult. you could sponsor earl!

OK, I'll take that on! You hear that, Earl... Now you're Sp0wnz0r3d!1!1

I'll make up a few BigChin t-shirts that you have to wear when you ride.

[synchro]

OK, I'll take that on! You hear that, Earl... Now you're Sp0wnz0r3d!1!1

I'll make up a few BigChin t-shirts that you have to wear when you ride.

OMFG! can i have one too?

[trouble]

the main reason I brought it up was in regards to the liability aspect. Apparently the young kids are going with parents though so I guess we are all good.

Also, funny that earl gets mentioned since it was myself, earl and my buddy nick talking about this in the first place.

-Joel

[Testy]

I want to see the kids out working. However at the same time we must watch our backs.

That sound's NIMBY to me.

Sorry to be blunt but I'm tired of the dumbing down of anything fun for fear of a CTV bubblehead doing a 5 minute news spot about it, and some self serving local politition using that news spot to further their career.

Or we could get a trail building video game for the teens and sit them in front of the TV on Sundays, that way nobody gets hurt. Geesh.

And Yup Synchro, I aggree this is a good topic for debate.

[enduramil]

That sound's NIMBY to me.

Sorry to be blunt but I'm tired of the dumbing down of anything fun for fear of a CTV bubblehead doing a 5 minute news spot about it, and some self serving local politition using that news spot to further their career.

Or we could get a trail building video game for the teens and sit them in front of the TV on Sundays, that way nobody gets hurt. Geesh.

And Yup Synchro, I aggree this is a good topic for debate.

Call it what you will. I have to deal with this level of fear everytime I go to work. It's really annoying, kind of like that house next door with the alarm going of 3 times a night when you are trying to sleep.

Personally, try to help the kids and such here. Try to take the time and show them how to build stuff. Like the DJ's that got built. When we ride them now alot of us stop and basically watch over the kids riding. Sort of monitoring them, more so they don't hurt themselves.

[the Master Plan Dan]

OK, I'll take that on! You hear that, Earl... Now you're Sp0wnz0r3d!1!1

I'll make up a few BigChin t-shirts that you have to wear when you ride.

Big Chin.... so dreamy!

Can I have one too?

:LOL:

[enduramil]

I now picture Synchro running a trail day youth monitoring service.

[synchro]

must resist attempt at evil joke cross referenced to some other hot debate thread

[Sharon]

The times when there are kids running around seemingly uncontrolled are usually when community groups who have kids mountain biking camps bring the group to a trail day.

This has happened a few times and so long as the ride leader is there ( one time they went for a ride while the kids stayed back and "worked"... ) then its ok.

[SkunkworkS]

I'm not a kid.

[enduramil]

I'm not a kid.

*Joe Pesci accent*

Ok, then you are a Yut.

[heckler's better 1/2]

I'm not a kid.

but you did come with a responsible adult.












who left you on the trail at the end of the day :cry:

[SkunkworkS]

His name is Sbeen Lube-kake.

Left me in the Mushroom lot with a saw and an axe.

:(

[Faithless]

I'm intrested in trail days, but have little to no experience building. I'd be willing to come out to the next one if its convienent to my schedule.

Infact anyone that regullarly attends could throw me a pm, I'd actually like to learn a little more.

[seeformiles]

His name is Sbeen Lube-kake.

Left me in the Mushroom lot with a saw and an axe.


And now... I will get my revenge!

Seriously though, what do you guys think of having a 5 minute orientation session at the start of trail days for n00bs? Let them know about tools, lunch arrangements, and how/where they can help out. It'd also be a chance to spot any 'unsupervised kids'.

[old&new]

My 10 year old and I were at the CBC trail day on Sunday . My kids love going to trail days. They have been going for the last few years and have always had a great time and learned a lot. They do help out a bit and it teaches them so much about what goes into making a trail, it is truly a valuable experience for them.

I know that at times my son will ask to run up or down the trail and look at what else is being built. It might, at times, seem that he is unsupervised, however, if they were not allowed to attend it would be a real shame. They feel that they are part of the mountain bike community and they feel good about contributing what they can. Remember they are the future. If we get them hooked on building at a young age more of them might turn into great kids like Earl instead of hanging out at the 7-11. When their friends ask them to help build a trail they will inform them that they need a permit etc... or they will know how to build a proper trail. A hands on education is key to maintaining the trails on the shore. Why not start them young

[TheGiggler]

^^^^ nice post

if we want to keep riding on the shore we need to get kids involved. think the NIMBY people will ever give up on getting riders out of their neighbourhoods? i somehow don't think so.

[ratherberiding]

nobody older than 19 should be allowed at traildays.
-Earl

[Knnn]

My 10 year old and I were at the CBC trail day on Sunday . My kids love going to trail days. They have been going for the last few years and have always had a great time and learned a lot. They do help out a bit and it teaches them so much about what goes into making a trail, it is truly a valuable experience for them.

I know that at times my son will ask to run up or down the trail and look at what else is being built. It might, at times, seem that he is unsupervised, however, if they were not allowed to attend it would be a real shame. They feel that they are part of the mountain bike community and they feel good about contributing what they can. Remember they are the future. If we get them hooked on building at a young age more of them might turn into great kids like Earl instead of hanging out at the 7-11. When their friends ask them to help build a trail they will inform them that they need a permit etc... or they will know how to build a proper trail. A hands on education is key to maintaining the trails on the shore. Why not start them young


Absolutly, well said!

My nine year old son was seen by some of his class mates on the recent CTV segment on trail building on the shore (Last Oil can trail day). He was well chuffed and a lot of his friends want to have a go at 'trail building' and get a NSMBA tee shirt. He wears his 'I build on the shore' tee shirt with a great deal of pride.

He may not be able to do a lot of constructive work but he now understands a lot of the principles, he even remonstrates his buddies when we ride not to drag their rear brakes because he has to fix the damage! When out hiking he points out braids and helps drag crap into the line to prevent more damage. Now if only we could get all the adults to do the same .....

[trout]

Make a sign that says, "Unsupervised children will be given a chainsaw and a mickey of bourbon."

[shirk]

Make a sign that says, "Unsupervised children will be given a chainsaw and a mickey of bourbon."

What if I am not really a child but just act like one, can I get the chainsaw and bourbon?

[Dantes Inferno]

i think it's a good topic for debate because what if some unsupervised kids are running along the trail or by the trail and get hit by falling debris?


What if an adult gets hit by falling debris, its suddenly the fault of the sawman?


Who ever is pushing a rock down a trail, cutting a tree, or doing something dangerous. It is their responsibility to make sure their actions do not put others in danger. That means taking the proper precautions. And if those are taken, no one will get hurt.


When a person crosses the street, i slow down instead of maintaining speed in my car. Get it, nuff said.




Ps. This threads a joke.

[Dantes Inferno]

Call it what you will. I have to deal with this level of fear everytime I go to work. It's really annoying, kind of like that house next door with the alarm going of 3 times a night when you are trying to sleep.

Personally, try to help the kids and such here. Try to take the time and show them how to build stuff. Like the DJ's that got built. When we ride them now alot of us stop and basically watch over the kids riding. Sort of monitoring them, more so they don't hurt themselves.


Seriously man, the fear everytime you go to work. Your F*cked up to put it as nice as I can. That has to be the most rediculous thing Ive ever heard an adult say. Its on par with those people who try and sue trail organizations cus they broke there face on some root. Dont tell me thats next on your list. FEAR FEAR, pave the trails cus you might get hurt. Or some young kid is going to put a stick in your spokes. :fruit:

My god, that kid over there. Hes young. I think he might take that shovel and dig a hole, but on the other hand..... He might cut my head off with it.

[ratherberiding]

everybody stay calm

[heckler]

I'm intrested in trail days, but have little to no experience building. I'd be willing to come out to the next one if its convienent to my schedule.


Unfortunately, it'll have to be on a 2007 trail day. I'm sad to say that the 2006 trail days weren't convenient to your schedule, because we can use all the help we can get! Yes, you'll be hunting rocks and digging dirt on your first few trail days, until you have an idea of what and how it needs to be done.

You can always help out the guys on Natural High They're out there quite often.
Natural High thread (as if you haven't lurked here yet) (http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=73020&page=44)

Here's some writeups about 2006 trail days (scroll to the bottom of the page) that'll give you an idea of what goes on.
Click here for trail day tales by BigChin (http://www.nsmba.bc.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=26&Itemid=39)

[heckler]

Do my links above work for anyone? They keep crashing my IE.

[TheGiggler]

What if an adult gets hit by falling debris, its suddenly the fault of the sawman?


Who ever is pushing a rock down a trail, cutting a tree, or doing something dangerous. It is their responsibility to make sure their actions do not put others in danger. That means taking the proper precautions. And if those are taken, no one will get hurt.


for sure.

but dont forget that it can be harder to control kids than adults, i.e. get them out of the danger zone and keep them out.

whats next, banning people from bringing dogs to trail days? i mean one of the may get hurt and they often try to steal the lunch from my pack ...

[TheGiggler]

Do my links above work for anyone? They keep crashing my IE.

they work fine for me. get a real browser ;)

[heckler]

Aside from the dog that stole my cookie on Sunday, there will be absolutely no banning of anyone on trial days! Everyone is welcome!

See you next year (or at the NSMBA AGM)!

[Faithless]

Unfortunately, it'll have to be on a 2007 trail day. I'm sad to say that the 2006 trail days weren't convenient to your schedule, because we can use all the help we can get! Yes, you'll be hunting rocks and digging dirt on your first few trail days, until you have an idea of what and how it needs to be done.

You can always help out the guys on Natural High They're out there quite often.
Natural High thread (as if you haven't lurked here yet) (http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=73020&page=44)

Here's some writeups about 2006 trail days (scroll to the bottom of the page) that'll give you an idea of what goes on.
Click here for trail day tales by BigChin (http://www.nsmba.bc.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=26&Itemid=39)

Oh, I just bought a bike, like 2 days ago. Have been out of the scene for a while. Attending a trail day just passed my mind when I was thinking about it.

I'll see you out in 2007 then :)

[enduramil]

Seriously man, the fear everytime you go to work. Your F*cked up to put it as nice as I can. That has to be the most rediculous thing Ive ever heard an adult say. Its on par with those people who try and sue trail organizations cus they broke there face on some root. Dont tell me thats next on your list. FEAR FEAR, pave the trails cus you might get hurt. Or some young kid is going to put a stick in your spokes. :fruit:

My god, that kid over there. Hes young. I think he might take that shovel and dig a hole, but on the other hand..... He might cut my head off with it.

Funny you should mention that.

Last fall was the year of the TRCA/City of Toronto Don Chainsaw Massacre. A rider rode a stunt and screwed up. Broke his collarbone. He admited his error and that he screwed up, no one was to blame but him.

One week day I show up at the Loblaws trail head and see a work crew with chainsaws and a Bobcat. Stacks of stunt remains they hauled out.

The city had apparently heard a rumour that a lawsuit was pending and freaked out. Sent in the chainsaws because they are afraid of being sued. Though it might have just been spin off from the lawsuit from the guy who smaked his face of the ground near Barrie. He was suing a bunch of people including UofT.

This is the mentality the city has towards any hint of a lawsuit. Very institutionalized. It seems to be a different mentality out here. Isn't PC wonderfull?

Only 11 month's till we return to the land of the sane. Be advised we are accepting donations to our escape fund.:P

[synchro]

What if an adult gets hit by falling debris, its suddenly the fault of the sawman?

Who ever is pushing a rock down a trail, cutting a tree, or doing something dangerous. It is their responsibility to make sure their actions do not put others in danger. That means taking the proper precautions. And if those are taken, no one will get hurt.

When a person crosses the street, i slow down instead of maintaining speed in my car. Get it, nuff said.

Ps. This threads a joke.

the only joke her is your attitude towards this topic. when operating a saw you're not watching the forest, you've got your eyes on what you're cutting. even when you take all the necessary precautions things can still happen. and that's just one example of. the last thing we need is someone's kid getting hurt and a parent over-reacting and suing or threatening to sue the nsmba or the district. say good-bye to trail days if that ever happens. we need to make sure we are doing our best not only to protect everyone but also to make sure people have a fun and productive time at the traildays.


Seriously man, the fear everytime you go to work. Your F*cked up to put it as nice as I can. That has to be the most rediculous thing Ive ever heard an adult say. Its on par with those people who try and sue trail organizations cus they broke there face on some root. Dont tell me thats next on your list. FEAR FEAR, pave the trails cus you might get hurt. Or some young kid is going to put a stick in your spokes. :fruit:

My god, that kid over there. Hes young. I think he might take that shovel and dig a hole, but on the other hand..... He might cut my head off with it.

read up on a topic called due dilligence before spouting off and sounding like a jackass.

simply bringing th topic up for discussion has brought forth some good ideas that can easily be implemented for the trail days next year.

[JdanS]

..... kids showing up at trail days. By kids I am thinking about 12 and under or so.......



This is an awesome idea! I have been missing trail days due to spending time with my kids but now that my oldest is probably big enough to be a help I think this is going to be a great way for us to spend some quality time together and to bring him more into the biking community.

I can't believe I didn't think of this myself..... sheesh.

[the Master Plan Dan]

What if I am not really a child but just act like one, can I get the chainsaw and bourbon?

Agreed... can I have one!

I think I should win... I only have one good arm!

Let the kids come out. They are the future and teaching them young helps them understand the issues better.

[trouble]

JdanS --- thank you for the partial quote. You used it to its full extent to twist my words


Ok, I think some people may have misunderstood/misread what I wrote originally. I was only referring to young kids showing up by themselves and hypothesized that some parents thought their kids were being supervised (probably by "them", the same people who magically fix the trails) at the trail days when in fact they really weren't, and that this possibly could be a problem. Now, the upper levels of nsmba people (who actually look at the sign in sheets) have clearly stated that this is not a problem and my perception of this was off.

I think its great when parents bring up their kids to help out with them. This idea that to ride trails you also need to maintain trails is something that is a lot easier to learn at a younger age than as an adult

[Lady Gravity]

maybe you just think that kids should always be well behaved and stick close to their parents rather than running around and playing and stuff. which is what normal kids do. i would highly doubt that any responsible parent would "drop off" their kids to a trail day :rolleyes:

[Testy]

Funny you should mention that.

Last fall was the year of the TRCA/City of Toronto Don Chainsaw Massacre. A rider rode a stunt and screwed up. Broke his collarbone. He admited his error and that he screwed up, no one was to blame but him.

One week day I show up at the Loblaws trail head and see a work crew with chainsaws and a Bobcat. Stacks of stunt remains they hauled out.

The city had apparently heard a rumour that a lawsuit was pending and freaked out. Sent in the chainsaws because they are afraid of being sued. Though it might have just been spin off from the lawsuit from the guy who smaked his face of the ground near Barrie. He was suing a bunch of people including UofT.

This is the mentality the city has towards any hint of a lawsuit. Very institutionalized. It seems to be a different mentality out here. Isn't PC wonderfull?

Only 11 month's till we return to the land of the sane. Be advised we are accepting donations to our escape fund.:P

Yup, thats not the first time and not the last time a muni will rev up the saws out of fear of a lawsuit. They do it to themselves by implementing unenforcable regulations upon recreational areas.

Large, organized traildays are a great way to combat those actions.
Family participation in any sport or recreational activity makes government land managers sit up and take notice.
There is strength in numbers...the easiest way to get the numbers is family participation. That means kids. The young ones with their folks and then the teens who come out on there own.

To address an earlier point of age limiting the kids' access to a trailday for "FEAR" they're too difficult to control and could get hurt. Who wants to "control" them anyway? Work with them and have fun. Teach them various aspects of trail building. That will help them learn respect for our mountains and trails. Start em early.

This thread is wierd,
On this board a lot of energy is spent on pretty colourful discussions between the old guys(me) and teens about respecting the trails, other riders, the trail builders etc etc etc.
There's also a ton of discussion about how only few do the work to benefit all.

And then to even discuss limiting child/teen access to a trailday, where they could learn alot about these things, meet some of the guys/girls who have put alot of hard hours into nsmba just seems ridiculous.

[enduramil]

everybody stay calm

But if you are staying calm does that mean you don't understand the situation?

[synchro]

maybe you just think that kids should always be well behaved and stick close to their parents rather than running around and playing and stuff. which is what normal kids do. i would highly doubt that any responsible parent would "drop off" their kids to a trail day :rolleyes:

yes of course because we know that:

a - only responssible parents bring their kids to trail days
b - there are no irresponsible parents in greater vancouver

[synchro]

To address an earlier point of age limiting the kids' access to a trailday for "FEAR" they're too difficult to control and could get hurt. Who wants to "control" them anyway? Work with them and have fun. Teach them various aspects of trail building. That will help them learn respect for our mountains and trails. Start em early.

I'd love to see that happen, but to do it properly we need more experienced people that can coach the youngins at the traildays.

i notice basically every trail day that at times there are younger kids standing/playing around instead of learning and participating. it's a great opportunity being lost.

see point #1

[enduramil]

yes of course because we know that:

a - only responssible parents bring their kids to trail days
b - there are no irresponsible parents in greater vancouver

Obviously hasn't been watching some of today's parenting skills.

[Testy]

I'd love to see that happen, but to do it properly we need more experienced people that can coach the youngins at the traildays.

i notice basically every trail day that at times there are younger kids standing/playing around instead of learning and participating. it's a great opportunity being lost.

see point #1

Yup, you're right, but look at things from a forward thinking standpoint...

Hopefully some of the yougen's coming out now will the experienced people coaching the next gen of little trailbuilders. The experience you are referring to comes from hands on interaction, not from being told to stay home, you're too young. Its actually worth it if a couple of the senior dudes at a trailday hang with the kids and show them what's up. It may slow down the productivity of the day a bit, but it will perpetuate new blood coming into the fold for future years.

And regarding the standing and playing around, with any kid you're gonna get some hard work and some playtime and chillin time. The more Sunday mornings the youngens spend in the woods at traildays the more they'll learn as to what is cool playtime/ chillin time, and what is potentially dangerous.

Also, on a side note, whenever I brought my yougens to traildays (which has been many through the years) I've always capped the day at 3 Hrs and out.
Traildays stop being fun to young person after 3 or 4 hours, that's when they start horsing around.

[Dantes Inferno]

One day, your gonna host a trail day. And its just going to be old people. Your not going to have anything to bitch about, so your gonna turn on each other.

There will be a lord of the flys situation with naked old men running through the forest with sandwiches up there butt, common. Whos irresponsible now.

How do you think the Van Tan Club started.

[heckler]

^^ Funny, but only in an internet kind of way.

We get lots of kids and teens out, and they're more than welcome!

[enduramil]

One day, your gonna host a trail day. And its just going to be old people. Your not going to have anything to bitch about, so your gonna turn on each other.

There will be a lord of the flys situation with naked old men running through the forest with sandwiches up there butt, common. Whos irresponsible now.

How do you think the Van Tan Club started.

You must hate authority. Spent most of your school career outside the principles office?

[enduramil]

Yup, you're right, but look at things from a forward thinking standpoint...

Hopefully some of the yougen's coming out now will the experienced people coaching the next gen of little trailbuilders. The experience you are referring to comes from hands on interaction, not from being told to stay home, you're too young. Its actually worth it if a couple of the senior dudes at a trailday hang with the kids and show them what's up. It may slow down the productivity of the day a bit, but it will perpetuate new blood coming into the fold for future years.

And regarding the standing and playing around, with any kid you're gonna get some hard work and some playtime and chillin time. The more Sunday mornings the youngens spend in the woods at traildays the more they'll learn as to what is cool playtime/ chillin time, and what is potentially dangerous.

Also, on a side note, whenever I brought my yougens to traildays (which has been many through the years) I've always capped the day at 3 Hrs and out.
Traildays stop being fun to young person after 3 or 4 hours, that's when they start horsing around.

Other then the comments from a slect few. I think this thread has been good. In that certain concerns have been raised and ideas put forth. That in theory will help with things in the future.

The whole kids part has reminded me of something and teaching them the sport. But that will be for a different thread at another time as I don't want to cause a threadjacking.

[dirty deeds]

There will be a lord of the flys situation with naked old men running through the forest with sandwiches up there butt, common. Whos irresponsible now.

How do you think the Van Tan Club started.

You, my boy have your head up your butt; which is a far more serious situation.

Please enlighten us on how the Van Tan Club started.

[JdanS]

JdanS --- thank you for the partial quote. You used it to its full extent to twist my words


My appologies if you misunderstood. I snipped it so it wasn't taking up a lot of space.

I was trying to thank you for reminding me how I could attend the trail days, spend time with my son and give him some great memories all rolled into one.

fyi my son won't be unattended and will be a help contributing to the trail day.

see you out there!

[dirty deeds]

as usual on these bb's it seems to end up in a shit fight. Back to the original post. I know the group of 12 - 14 year olds the original poster was talking about. they didn't have their parents there, and they enjoy running up and down the trail more than hauling rocks. That's cool. at least they're there. you can't ban them from trail days. one day they'll be working.

For me, it's basically a matter of safety and chainsaws. kids, young and old are attracted to them like flies to a turd. as soon as one starts up on a trail day. We've just gotta be very careful using them. I would like to see NO felling on trail days. It's just too dangerous. Too many people around and you can't account for everyone. there's enough dead wood on the ground. if there are standing dead trees that have to come down, I think we should do it prior to the actual trail day.

Don't ban the kids. Work safer.

[Tom]

I would like to see NO felling on trail days. It's just too dangerous. Too many people around and you can't account for everyone. there's enough dead wood on the ground. if there are standing dead trees that have to come down, I think we should do it prior to the actual trail day.

Don't ban the kids. Work safer.

What he said.

[TheGiggler]

yup. and if you have to fall something (e.g. dangerous snag over trail), then get some responsible people to watch the falling zone and ensure no one walks into it. seems pretty simple.

[Dantes Inferno]

but it must be way more complicated than that, come one now. These kids.... there evil.

[derwood]

i think it's a good topic for debate because what if some unsupervised kids are running along the trail or by the trail and get hit by falling debris?
I do not think this is a good topic for debate on a public forum,although it would be a good topic for the AGM of a certain trail advocacy group.

[Dantes Inferno]

You, my boy have your head up your butt; which is a far more serious situation.

Please enlighten us on how the Van Tan Club started.


Trail builders from the 70s. They went insane because all the youngens and women ran away. They split into two tribes. Thats just the surviving tribe who claimed king of the castle.

We are just witnessing history repeat itself. Sad really. My only question is if they will claim cypress or seymour.... Maybe they will go to fromme, cus as the old Tanners slowly return to the earth, the new ones of this very thread will hold onto the legacy another 30 years.

This has been a dramatization.
In reality, the point, the real point. BANNNIG any age group from traildays can have only a negative effect on trailbuilding and mountain biking as a whole. Why would you want to make a negative impression on the very group of people you expect to succeed you and keep what you love alive.

PS If you really want to get into a irresponisble, potentially dangerous "discussion". We could just talk about drinking and riding aka the triple crown, but since its "adults" taking part in those activities and Labelling it as good ol fun.... It must be ok right?

[barry]

If you feel theres a lack of supervision maybe you need more supervisors! Maybe they're bored and not working as hard as they could be because they're unsure about things. A trail under construction should be treated the same as a construction site as far as delegation goes. Maybe better communication will help with those wanderers/freeloaders. As Kiewit says, "Watch out for your Buddy"

PS - I didn't bother reading past the first page... sue me.

[derwood]

Trail builders from the 70s. They went insane because all the youngens and women ran away. They split into two tribes. Thats just the surviving tribe who claimed king of the castle.

We are just witnessing history repeat itself. Sad really. My only question is if they will claim cypress or seymour.... Maybe they will go to fromme, cus as the old Tanners slowly return to the earth, the new ones of this very thread will hold onto the legacy another 30 years.

This has been a dramatization.
In reality, the point, the real point. BANNNIG any age group from traildays can have only a negative effect on trailbuilding and mountain biking as a whole. Why would you want to make a negative impression on the very group of people you expect to succeed you and keep what you love alive.

PS If you really want to get into a irresponisble, potentially dangerous "discussion". We could just talk about drinking and riding aka the triple crown, but since its "adults" taking part in those activities and Labelling it as good ol fun.... It must be ok right?
The worst part is when mountain biking parents leave their kids unsupervised on this BB.......

[Dantes Inferno]

Cant help it, Im only 12.

Ill start posting again when I turn Grumpy.

[Testy]

The worst part is when mountain biking parents leave their kids unsupervised on this BB.......


:lol: :lol:

[ratherberiding]

i agree with derwood
how about everybody gather their thoughts on this issue and discuss it at the AGM.i think that was the goal of this thread. not to have a debate, just to see where people stand on this issue.

[Rat]

how about chaining the kids to the section there working on. Shit leave em there for a few days or at least untill they get the job done

[enduramil]

i agree with derwood
how about everybody gather their thoughts on this issue and discuss it at the AGM.i think that was the goal of this thread. not to have a debate, just to see where people stand on this issue.

Sure, you bucking up for my airfare?