Does MTB riding increase core strength?

[teflon_cock]

Its obvious after a while most regular riders build muscle mass but I've always wondered if downhill and technical riding increases core strength significantly over time.

It's my opinion that technical riding demands alot of sustained balance skills, muscle endurance and control so I'm sure all these components of shore riding must have some benefit on core strenthening.

Maybe a physiotherapist who rides might be able to give a good answer here.

[Standard web definition of "core strength": development the abdominal and back muscles that surround the core area of the body with a tight and powerful support structure of muscle bundles running in different directions. The core muscles act as shock absorbers for jumps, rebounds, or plyometric exercises; stabilize the body; and represent a link, or transmitter, between the legs and arms.]

[bcbud]

I feel pretty good from riding 80+ days this year, almost all DHing too, my core is solid I guess, but I also ski so that helps a shit load, especially riding pow so much last year, gotta keep those feet underneath you and having a solid middle is key.....

[TheGiggler]

not any significant in core strength IMO.

sure it will build legs and arms/shoulders ... but core muscles, not very much IMO.

at least, when my core muscles are tired and sore that never, ever seems to matter while riding. yet if you ride with sore/tired arms/shoulders/legs it definitely impacts downhill riding performance.

for real core strength workout, i suggest xc skiing or trail building as alternatives to workin out in a boring staled aired gym ...

[synchro]

yes

[biggles604]

I would say that you need good core strength to ride. After all, what connects your legs to your arms? I don't do sit ups unless I can really help it, and I never seem to be out of shape because of it.

[Lady Gravity]

i think that biking definitely improved my core strength, however, i go to the gym as well to build muscle mass/improve strength so i can a) recover from injury faster b) have more strength to move my bike around. it's definitely helped (been working out solidly for almost 2 yrs) but maybe guys don't need to do this since they've already got more upper body strength than women. i have found that my endurance is longer since i've been working out.

[mattj]

The answer to your question is no. It keeps you fit but it can't be considered "core training" when you ride DH/freeride.


-m

[Incorrigible]

I beg to differ. The problem is that it is basically a sprint when DH'ing. So not enough time is spent to do any good to your body. But enough get enough runs in, and it is bound to help core strength.

[XXX_er]

I would say no

I have had core issues to a point of being a complete basketcase while maintaining an active lifestyle including mtn biking ,running,xc/alpine/telemark skiing,hiking,and WW kayaking.In fact I am pretty sure wedging myself into one of those small playboats is what bothers my sciatic nerve . You need to do specific exercises to increase or even maintain core

Pillates/yoga at the Y is what has fixed my back and those classes are not boring ,they are at least 75% female ,SO you can always put yer sticky mat at the back of the class and enjoy the scenery

[synchro]

The answer to your question is no. It keeps you fit but it can't be considered "core training" when you ride DH/freeride.


-m

I would say no

I have had core issues to a point of being a complete basketcase while maintaining an active lifestyle including mtn biking ,running,xc/alpine/telemark skiing,hiking,and WW kayaking.In fact I am pretty sure wedging myself into one of those small playboats is what bothers my sciatic nerve . You need to do specific exercises to increase or even maintain core

Pillates/yoga at the Y is what has fixed my back and those classes are not boring ,they are at least 75% female ,SO you can always put yer sticky mat at the back of the class and enjoy the scenery


the question isn't whether dh/freeriding is considered core training but whether it can increase core strength. for an otherwise sedentary individual, mtb'ing will have a positive impact, albeit limited on their core strength. it will not improve it as much as dedicated core training, but it will make enough of a difference to have a positive benfit in their health.

[TheGiggler]

the question isn't whether dh/freeriding is considered core training but whether it can increase core strength. for an otherwise sedentary individual, mtb'ing will have a positive impact, albeit limited on their core strength. it will not improve it as much as dedicated core training, but it will make enough of a difference to have a positive benfit in their health.


basically it will do nothing for core strength.

just like pure shuttling without climbs does basically nothing for cardio fitness.

the reality is that DH/FR riding is a sprint/anareobic type activity for the most part. if you want to work on your cardio then do long slow pedalling rides. if you want to work on your core strength then do exerices targetted for that.

pure DH/FR riding while OK for burning some calories is really quite a poor workout compared to a real cardio or core workout.

[Knnn]

Well, after 2 years of riding, I have gained a one pack (the ones just under the ribs), so only 5 more to go. It's been almost 27 years since I last saw any evidence of a 6 pack, so I think biking has helped my core strength or may be, as already suggested, it's the trail building?

[synchro]

basically it will do nothing for core strength.

just like pure shuttling without climbs does basically nothing for cardio fitness.

the reality is that DH/FR riding is a sprint/anareobic type activity for the most part. if you want to work on your cardio then do long slow pedalling rides. if you want to work on your core strength then do exerices targetted for that.

pure DH/FR riding while OK for burning some calories is really quite a poor workout compared to a real cardio or core workout.

this is what i love about these fitness questions, all the experts have a theory.

why don't we first define "core", "strength" and "increase in strength" before saying that mtb'ing will do nothing for core strength. you may be right that some individuals will not experience an increase in core, but some will. to say that mtb'ing does nothing for core strength is effectivley saying that you do not use your core muscles while mtb'ing.

oh, and in regards to your comment about pure shuttling doing basically nothing for cardio fitness again you need to define your terms before making erroneous blanket statements like that.

[Sharon]

I don't think it can actually increase your core strength. It may help stabilize you.

What I did find when I did specific core strength training ( pilates etc ) that I became a stronger rider. I could keep my upper body quiet while my lower body was working harder.

When I stopped doing specific core strengh training, the biggest thing I noticed was how my back felt after a long ride.

So now I do a lot of core training mostly for my back.

[TheGiggler]

this is what i love about these fitness questions, all the experts have a theory.

why don't we first define "core", "strength" and "increase in strength" before saying that mtb'ing will do nothing for core strength. you may be right that some individuals will not experience an increase in core, but some will. to say that mtb'ing does nothing for core strength is effectivley saying that you do not use your core muscles while mtb'ing.

oh, and in regards to your comment about pure shuttling doing basically nothing for cardio fitness again you need to define your terms before making erroneous blanket statements like that.


i call it as i see it.

i did pure shuttlign for one month this winter (January) and I never felt so out of shape after that. also it did nothing for core strength. i also know a bit about cardio and core strength training from xc ski racing days.

realistically if you're in decent shape you should not expect to get much of a workout from DH/FR riding.

the climb to the top of the hill is where you get the real benefits IMO ...

if you're talking about someone who has just come off being a couch potato sure my statements won't apply; i assume we are talking about people who already have a resaonbaly decent level of fitness

[synchro]

i call it as i see it.

i did pure shuttlign for one month this winter (January) and I never felt so out of shape after that. also it did nothing for core strength. i also know a bit about cardio and core strength training from xc ski racing days.

realistically if you're in decent shape you should not expect to get much of a workout from DH/FR riding.

the climb to the top of the hill is where you get the real benefits IMO ...

if you're talking about someone who has just come off being a couch potato sure my statements won't apply; i assume we are talking about people who already have a resaonbaly decent level of fitness

c'mon trev, you can't honestly expect to take your experience and transfer that over to everyone else. you're an exception to the rule as your fitness level is probably in the top 5% of most riders out there. i'd guess that a lot of riders don't have even a reasonably decent level of fitness.

i don't disagree with you that someone in already decent shape (which should be defined) is not going to see much if any improvement in core or cardio fitness through mtb'ing. it can have a positive impact for some people though.

[Lady Gravity]

how about this....you rarely see a fat xc rider, however, dh'ers can certainly run a bit on the chubby side, specially if all they do is shuttle.

[synchro]

how about this....you rarely see a fat xc rider, however, dh'ers can certainly run a bit on the chubby side, specially if all they do is shuttle.

the amount of fat someone carries arround their midsection is not necessarily an indication of their aerobic, anaerobic or core strength fitness levels. there are overfat people who are fit.

[Home_Piece]

While working closely in tandem, core strenght and the 'six pack' abdominal muscles are two different things. Here's a good quote on core strength, from Canada.com: (http://www.canada.com/topics/lifestyle/fitness/story.html?id=ef7ef9cd-e211-434f-8074-f58caefd6b5d&k=81466)

"It acts like a stabilizer, a belt that helps stabilize our midsection and back, the spine," she said. "It can add stability so that we get good motion with our arms and legs in the activities we do throughout the day, particularly with athletes and sports performance."

Austin specializes in physical therapy and training of athletes. However, "It's not just athletes who need the core. People also need the core to pick up their child, get groceries out of the car or do yard work," she said.

Even athletes can be fooled about their core strength.

"It's not just strengthening them, it's also being able to (use) them," she said. "Someone may look strong having (nice abs), but in reality, they don't use the other muscles of the core, so the strength in their midsection may not be as strong.

"And it might be strong, but they don't know how to use those muscles, to recruit them, when we need to. An example is swinging a bat. How do you get all of the muscles that come into play to work together?"

The abdominal muscle -- the rectus abdominis -- that gives you the six-pack is not by definition a true core muscle, because it runs vertically instead of horizontally..."

But yeah, i think that riding will help improve your core strength - if done properly. One of the most important things to remember when training your core, is that it must be 'activated'. To feel this activation, place your hands just on the front of your hips, about level with your belly button. Clench the muscles you would use to stop peeing mid-flow, and try to tilt your belly button up and back.

[guss chiggens]

Just so you know I know absolute shite bout the technical side of this argument but, I remember hearing an interview with a Canucks trainer and he said that playing hockey will get you to a certain level of fitness but that it does more to breakdown your body than build it. That is why the players workout constantly throughout the year so they can maintain and build upon a high level of fitness. I'd think hockey and DHing are similar in that they both beat the crap out of your body.
So I'd think that you would have to do controlled exercise/training to build upon and properly maintain wut you already have.

[synchro]

The abdominal muscle -- the rectus abdominis -- that gives you the six-pack is not by definition a true core muscle, because it runs vertically instead of horizontally..."

not a bad little piece, but i disagree with her reasoning as to why the rectus abdominus is not a true core muscle. for example the multifidus runs vertically but is considered a core muscle. many people forget that core muscles are not limited to the muscles of the abdomen but also include some muscles of the spine and hip. the probelm rests with how some people define what the core is. realistically, the core muscles could/should be defined as those muscles which connect the pelvis to the spine and ribs.

[parts]

how about this....you rarely see a fat xc rider, however, dh'ers can certainly run a bit on the chubby side, specially if all they do is shuttle.

haha. carefully chosen words considering the audience.

dunno about helping or gaining any core strength but I do know that if you have a solid core then are off the bike for a long stretch (injury or whatever) you sure feel a nice searing sensation in your stomach to let you know the six pack is short a couple cans & it's been a while since you did a decent climb. I guess it's likely the same with balance or bike control- doesn't help the core much but if you have a jelly-belly you're worse off.

C'mon I'm sure some DH bike co. can kick in some $$$ to fund a study saying shuttling/ bike parking/ DH'ing helps your core strength. In the same vein as wine & coffee companies funding all these health studies showing how great their products are for us. Just imagine a *insert heavy DH bike co here* study heralding the health benefits of a DH run/ day.

[enduramil]

I'll take Synchro's knowledge for the win.

But to add a little stirring. Trials is a part of riding not only as a branch off discipline but alot of trials skills transfer to say shore riding. It would be interesting to see how much core involvement Ryan Leech has in his riding.

[HIBuLlitT]

If you use the techniques that Brian Lopes mentions in his book (wifey got it
a few months ago for me), while weighting and un-weighting, pumping every
backside and pulling up on every rise, you will build core muscles. I know that
my physical fitness has increased since I've been putting Lopes' advice
to use. I shuttle here a lot, but we also have a lot of uphill pedaling on our DH
run too though.

I also notice that when I don't ride, I have back issues, and when I ride I don't.
I 'feel' that it's my 'core' muscles that are strengthening and keeping my back
in check. I also find that I am way more out of breath when I'm bombing a DH
trail at full tilt than when I'm climbing to get there when there's no one to shuttle
with.

Either way, great question, and interesting answers.

[Millstone]

ride street. dirt jump.

[APT]

This is how I measure my core strength.....

20+ whistler days in 2005 -> Garbo non-stop top to bottom run = no problem.

8 whistler days in 2006 -> Garbo non-stop top to bottom run = can't do it.

I guess DH riding does improve your core strength (at least for me).

[dudski]

yeah bmx buffs the fuck out of you.

[Lady Gravity]

the amount of fat someone carries arround their midsection is not necessarily an indication of their aerobic, anaerobic or core strength fitness levels. there are overfat people who are fit.

i agree, just trying to point out the correlation that i've noticed. also, i can safely say that dh is definitely hard work, and anyone that says it isn't doesn't know what they're talking about. i'm not sure if dh riding increases core strength however, i guess it would depend on how much is done.

[SIDESHOW]

definately not. Riding bikes actually creates serious imbalances that must be rectified with sport specific gym training.

a yoga program, possibly pilates is a great combo with what we do.

Yes a stronger core will make you a better rider, but you must work off of the bike to achieve this.....climbing especially tech stuff will improve your core, mostly based on the concept of trying to keep your balance...

if you fight your bike enough to truly build "real" core strength you are going very slow, and chundering your way thru the wonderful world of flowy fast riding.

yoga will reduce armpump, take that to the bank kids.

[synchro]

definately not. Riding bikes actually creates serious imbalances that must be rectified with sport specific gym training.

a yoga program, possibly pilates is a great combo with what we do.

Yes a stronger core will make you a better rider, but you must work off of the bike to achieve this.....climbing especially tech stuff will improve your core, mostly based on the concept of trying to keep your balance...

if you fight your bike enough to truly build "real" core strength you are going very slow, and chundering your way thru the wonderful world of flowy fast riding.

yoga will reduce armpump, take that to the bank kids.

so why don't you share your educated opinion with us and tell us why riding definitely does not build core strength, what muscle groups these imbalances lie within and how they can be corrected?

[Splan]

Would it be true to say that if you rode a lot of skinnies that you may see an increase in core muscle strength? I thought core muscles play a large part in keeping your balance.

Hockey player increase core muscle strength by jumping on those large exercise balls and balancing don't they?

[synchro]

Would it be true to say that if you rode a lot of skinnies that you may see an increase in core muscle strength? I thought core muscles play a large part in keeping your balance.

Hockey player increase core muscle strength by jumping on those large exercise balls and balancing don't they?

yes, core muscles play a key role in balance. balancing on swiss or physio balls is on e of many ways to help build core strength.

squats and deadlifts are also good ways to help build core strength.

[LeeLau]

Would it be true to say that if you rode a lot of skinnies that you may see an increase in core muscle strength? I thought core muscles play a large part in keeping your balance.


Only if you rode those skinnies with a big cross around your neck and sandals nailed to your feet.

or if you rode those skinnies with a big diaper and sucker necessitating constant weight shifts to maintain balance

[Rat]

This is how I measure my core strength.....

20+ whistler days in 2005 -> Garbo non-stop top to bottom run = no problem.

8 whistler days in 2006 -> Garbo non-stop top to bottom run = can't do it.

I guess DH riding does improve your core strength (at least for me).


were discussing core streagth not Hardcore streagth. two differnt things

[seand]

how about this....you rarely see a fat xc rider, however, dh'ers can certainly run a bit on the chubby side, specially if all they do is shuttle.


Faulty logic :) I have seen some overweight, and just plain fat roadies. These roadies smoked the super-fit looking guys they were riding with.

Some people just store a warming layer and cannot get rid of it no matter their diet or workout regiment. This does not mean they are not more or less fit than someone based on appearance.

anywho...
I find lapping places like Whistler for hours and hours, days on end really does help the exterior strength (shoulders, upper back, arms, theighs, and hands) but does zip for my core strength. This is where other activities come in.

[Silk]

pure DH/FR riding while OK for burning some calories is really quite a poor workout compared to a real cardio or core workout.


Remember some time back the guy from Uvic wanted some guys to do some testing for him on Fromme mountain?

I did do the test for him and the results were interesting.

On the climb my heart rate was a steady 175 bpm and I was pushing hard "did the climb to 7th in 36 minutes.

What I found weird is going down the trails my heart rate jumped to a steady 190 bpm all the way down and I was out of breath big time.

Grip strength actually increased after the ride

before was 50lbs
after was 55lbs

Leg strength was the same it increased after the ride.

I would say IMO that dh riding is one good workout when your pushing it.

[Lady Gravity]

Faulty logic :) I have seen some overweight, and just plain fat roadies. These roadies smoked the super-fit looking guys they were riding with.

i believe i said "rarely", not "never" :rolleyes:
i also think a lot of factors come into play with respect to body fat vs. fitness.

[teflon_cock]

definately not. Riding bikes actually creates serious imbalances that must be rectified with sport specific gym training.

May be true but sadly I've heard this spiel from too many sales consultants zealously trying to sign me up for expensive memberships in trendy gyms. I'm not inclined to spend time in gyms lifting weights while balancing on balls or karma sutra-ing in a snobby lycra-thong yoga studio (even with nice 'scenery') when I could be on the trails.

2 years ago I took a fall and really hurt my lower lumbar ... Dr. Chiro told me I needed to improve my core strength, so with a few weeks of therapy and 2 years of riding later my back seems to be stronger than ever. I'm convinced riding with good technique and control has helped strengthen my back.

[synchro]

you don't need to do anything fancy. all you really need are a few simple exercises and about 15min of time 2-3 days per week to effectively train your core.

[teflon_cock]

http://www.jiggscasey.com/images/movies/bloodsport-chongli.jpg

I bet he has good core strength :lol:

[APT]

you don't need to do anything fancy. all you really need are a few simple exercises and about 15min of time 2-3 days per week to effectively train your core.

15min 2-3 times a day? Sounds like my kinda of workout. PLease share.

[teflon_cock]

isn't that the marketing tagline for Bowflex?
15 mins a day for a bowflex body .. or is it 20 mins cant remember

[TheGiggler]

This is how I measure my core strength.....

20+ whistler days in 2005 -> Garbo non-stop top to bottom run = no problem.

8 whistler days in 2006 -> Garbo non-stop top to bottom run = can't do it.

I guess DH riding does improve your core strength (at least for me).


but why cant you do it? my guess is arms/fingers/legs get tired and sore.

that is not core strength.

[TheGiggler]

Remember some time back the guy from Uvic wanted some guys to do some testing for him on Fromme mountain?

I did do the test for him and the results were interesting.

On the climb my heart rate was a steady 175 bpm and I was pushing hard "did the climb to 7th in 36 minutes.

What I found weird is going down the trails my heart rate jumped to a steady 190 bpm all the way down and I was out of breath big time.

Grip strength actually increased after the ride

before was 50lbs
after was 55lbs

Leg strength was the same it increased after the ride.

I would say IMO that dh riding is one good workout when your pushing it.


you rode 7th/krikum no?

1. that is not core stength, but anareobic workout. anarobic workout while good is not as good as a real cardio workout in terms of burning calories and getting long distance shape

2. those trails are more xc than DH/FR

3. that isnt core strength either

:)

[APT]

but why cant you do it? my guess is arms/fingers/legs get tired and sore.

that is not core strength.

Arms & Fingers are fine. The problem is my back just does not seem to support the body halfway down the mountain. Is this related to core strength?

[synchro]

you rode 7th/krikum no?

1. that is not core stength, but anareobic workout. anarobic workout while good is not as good as a real cardio workout in terms of burning calories and getting long distance shape

2. those trails are more xc than DH/FR

3. that isnt core strength either

:)

ok, smart guy. why don't you tell us what core strength is?

[Bryce]

i would think trailbuilding would be a decent core workout. Keeping heavy rocks and awkward logs stable as you carry them up hills and over obstacles (with uneven footing) uses a lot of different muscles.

[TheGiggler]

ok, smart guy. why don't you tell us what core strength is?


why? so you can rip my layperson's definition apart? :)

[TheGiggler]

i would think trailbuilding would be a decent core workout. Keeping heavy rocks and awkward logs stable as you carry them up hills and over obstacles (with uneven footing) uses a lot of different muscles.


much more so that biking, IMO.

cross country skiing is probably the funnest way to work on core strength though

[seeformiles]

Isn't unicycling supposed to be extremely good for core development?

[synchro]

why? so you can rip my layperson's definition apart? :)

lol - no.

just so we can get an accurate picture of what core strength is. core strength doesn't necessarily involve bending or twisting movements. what if i told you that you could activate your core by only moving one arm?

[HIBuLlitT]

you rode 7th/krikum no?

1. that is not core stength, but anareobic workout. anarobic workout while good is not as good as a real cardio workout in terms of burning calories and getting long distance shape

2. those trails are more xc than DH/FR

3. that isnt core strength either

:)

While I agree that #3 is correct, I disagree w/ your assessment.
I thought that aerobic workout meant that you increased your heart rate for
extended periods thus increasing your breathing rate.

Would everyone agree that riding a pump track would increase your core as
well as your aerobic fitness? If so, then riding DH like you're riding a pump track
should increase your core groups.

Doesn't balance come in to play when you're in the air, making turns, balancing
on logs/skinnies, trying not to slide out while riding down a rock face?

My reasoning may be flawed here, as I am no expert.

[enduramil]

lol - no.

just so we can get an accurate picture of what core strength is. core strength doesn't necessarily involve bending or twisting movements. what if i told you that you could activate your core by only moving one arm?

I think you lost most here with the "activating" part.

Funny how the Ryan Leech and trials comment was ignored.

[synchro]

15min 2-3 times a day? Sounds like my kinda of workout. PLease share.

superman bridges
reverse crunch
one legged squats
weighted or resistance band roatations
180's and 360's

no special eqpt needed.

any more and i have to start charging

[LeeLau]

Arms & Fingers are fine. The problem is my back just does not seem to support the body halfway down the mountain. Is this related to core strength?


How about you do some trail work - that would do for core strength

[synchro]

it's gettin hot in here

[enduramil]

it's gettin hot in here

So open a window.

[ESHER SHORE]

2 things i found have made a bigger difference to my core strength than just freeriding:

Trailbuilding - 8 hours a day, cutting timber, moving timber, building timber trails, moving endless amount of wheelbarrows full of dirt, packing dirt, raking dirt, raking debris

BMX - hell of a work out, 3 or 4 hours down the skatepark, no suspension, 100psi in tires, constantly pumping, jumping, hopping, spinning bike


Rob

[Big Dipper]

my sphincter gets a work out

[enduramil]

I believe now is the time for someone to post a true scientific view of this.

[synchro]

I believe now is the time for someone to post a true scientific view of this.

oh alright. to put this into relatively simple terms:


1. as mentioned earlier, your core muscles should de defined as the muscles that connect the trunk to the hips.

2. building strength can be defined as increasing a muscle's ability to contract against resistance one time or repeatedly over time.

3. the level of strength one can build is influenced primarily by their current strength levels, genetic capabilities and physical activity patterns.

4. increases in strength are specific to the activity performed and the muscle used to perform the activity.

5. any activity that stresses a muscle beyond it's current capabilites will produce an increase in strength specific to the activity performed. (read up on the SAID principle if you want to learn more)

6. a decrease in physical activity will result in a loss of muscle strength and mass relative to the activity no longer being performed.

7. core muscles are not only used for movement but also play an important role as stabilizers for other active muscles. a muscle does not have to produce movement in order for it to activate or contract.

8. when riding a bicyle and especially when aggressively mountain biking, the core muscles play a key role in the balance, stabilization and and movement of your entire body while ridng your bike.

for someone that has not participated in mountain biking activities, regular riding will produce an increase in strength in the core muscles specific to the demands placed on them while riding. increases in strength will stop once the mountain biking activities fail to further stress the core muscles beyond the level to which they have been conditioned to. if you stop participating in mountain biking, your muscles will gradually lose the strength they acquired and return to a homeostatic (pre-mountain biking) level of strength.

to show just how little activity is required to get some of the core muscles to activate or contract let's do a little exercise

1. stand up and raise your right arm to shoulder level.

2. place your left thumb just to the left of your spine at the same level as your waist.

3. move your hand up and down about six inches. you will feel the multifidus muscle activate.

notice that the only part of your body that is moving is your arm, and in a very small range of movement, yet some of your core muscles are working.

copyright 2006
Mark Rowe
NSCA-CPT

[enduramil]

Synchro, figured it was time to provide a difinitive answer to this.