"Trails find you when you are ready"

[Templeton Peck]

So I've heard the saying "trails find you when you're ready" thrown around a bit lately and it got me thinking. There is an obviouis code on these boards not to post trail directions, but even when people ask to be PM'd directions they get a response that ranges from annoyed to asshole.

I'm wondering when you are at Seymour, Grouse, Cypress, Woodlot, Eagle or where ever, and someone approaches you at the top or bottom and says they have never ridden there b4 and asks for directions, do you give them the same response you give them on here. ie. "trails find you when you are ready", or do you give them the goods or tell them to tag along?

I tend to let them follow or give them directions. If it appears they are over their head, like if they have no armour and their seat is cranked up 2 feet I might include a warning and directions to an easier trail, but on a whole I don't have any problem giving directions. Am I the minority here??????

[Neo]

i tell them to screw off.

[sAFETY]

I tell them about the amazing trails that are hidden in the area, the kind that are plastered on the covers of bike mags and will haunt their dreams for the rest of their lives.

Yeah, I can take them there..... For a price....

[Taylor_P]

i tell people, if the trail is that great then there is also a good chance that its hard to find.

[Uncle Duke]

basically Im a slut and take them w me and then regret it.

[discowitch]

basically Im a slut and take them w me and then regret it.

well, as long as you can admit it. (LOL)

[jonny.zee]

basically Im a slut and take them w me and then regret it.

Yup. I've reaped the benefits of your whoring habits. But I'm very grateful!

j/k - I don't think any of the trails you took me on were "secret." But they were awesome.

[jonny.zee]

I agree with what Templeton is saying in that I would never say something so ridiculous to someone asking for directions. I also feel that sometimes we come down on a guy too hard when he asks for directions here.

But... as for trails finding you when you are ready - I am a firm believer in the concept. Truer words have never been spoken, IMO. For e.g - if you go out and ride & hang out on Fromme enough, you will find GMG. If you're asking where it is then chances are you haven't put in enough time over there.

[Uncle Duke]

Yup. I've reaped the benefits of your whoring habits. But I'm very grateful!

j/k - I don't think any of the trails you took me on were "secret." But they were awesome.


c'mon!!! I wasn't talking about you! lol.

this summer was the summer of the random rider...and they just seemed to keep finding me.not including moe..moe yer dynomite baby.

i dunno if we have any truly secret trails on the coast.probably and I dont even know about them..

[freakonaleash]

Im gonna get flamed for this but...

When im at the location, and someone tells me, i tell them where they all. I enjoy seeing people progressing. I dont enjoy a person stumbling upon a trail like flying circus and killing themselves because they didnt know what was what. I feel if you tell them where the trail is (at there skill level) than its cool.

[Universe]

Im gonna get flamed for this but...

When im at the location, and someone tells me, i tell them where they all.

wtf

I guess grammar also finds you when you are ready

[clown]

wtf

I guess grammar also finds you when you are ready


hahahahahahahaha!!!

[E.Long]

wow, 1000 posts and you have only been here since june. wow

[kookboy]

When time lets me, I'll go and ride the huckwagon up. Hopefully with a map and some munchies, I'll find my way down solo and have fun while I'm at it.

I love Whistler, but I miss the days when I used to explorer trails with buddies.

Unfortunately for me, I've never been to the shore.

Fortunately, I now have time. Be it winter, but what the heck.

I agree though.

Trails find you when you are ready.

Knowing my luck, I will end up on Boogieman for my 1st ride (so I hear it's the balls). :)

[freakonaleash]

Knowing my luck, I will end up on Boogieman for my 1st ride (so I hear it's the balls). :)

Take a right at the end of pingu ;)

[mattj]

I think the reason (one of anyways) why trail directions are not given on the forum is because more people read the forums than just riders looking to progress their riding or someone who saved up all year (or more) so that they can come ride the North Shore and see (if not ride) the stuff they fantasize about from the videos/mags/net. I'm talking about the bad people who don't like mountain biking, and would soon see the trails get torn down and turned into hiking trails.

If I met freakonaleash (or whoever that other kid asking for directions) on the hill riding Id take him to any trail he wants to see. But on the internet, you bet I'll tell him to eff off. How do I know it's not Craver's chainsaw-wielding cousin asking for directions under the guise of a mountain biker looking to progress...

So I guess what I'm saying kind of sounds like I am going against my own sig, but I think that giving directions on the net and finding trails to progress your own riding are two completely different issues.


-m

[Couch_Surfer]

wtf

I guess grammar also finds you when you are ready

that's awesome - sigged.

[Testy]

I think the reason (one of anyways) why trail directions are not given on the forum is because more people read the forums than just riders looking to progress their riding or someone who saved up all year (or more) so that they can come ride the North Shore and see (if not ride) the stuff they fantasize about from the videos/mags/net. I'm talking about the bad people who don't like mountain biking, and would soon see the trails get torn down and turned into hiking trails.

If I met freakonaleash (or whoever that other kid asking for directions) on the hill riding Id take him to any trail he wants to see. But on the internet, you bet I'll tell him to eff off. How do I know it's not Craver's chainsaw-wielding cousin asking for directions under the guise of a mountain biker looking to progress...

So I guess what I'm saying kind of sounds like I am going against my own sig, but I think that giving directions on the net and finding trails to progress your own riding are two completely different issues.


-m

Yup pretty much sum's it up. Sometimes we'll just give directions and sometimes invite the rider along. Depends on the day.
Although sometimes I don't have a clue where I am on the mountain.

[freakonaleash]

I guess grammar also


Hey look, i can quote half sentences too !

[Tom]

I have no problem giving directions in person.

[TheGiggler]

in addition to what Mattj said, there's also the fact that some random person asking for directions, you have no idea of their riding ability or mindset, or ...

i've been asked many a time where GMG is and unless i know the person i will always fake ignorance on where GMG is. there is no way i'm going to tell some random person where the trail is on the off chance they managed to get injured and need to be evac'd ... that would not be a good thing for the trail considering the DNV these days. nor would that be a good day of riding for them.

i think we've all ran into someone who makes claims about their riding ability which we have later found were quite exagerated.

for this reason, i usually only give verbal directions in person to the easiest trails on whatever mountain it is. on fromme i will always suggest pipeline or 7th/krikum and even then with the caveat that there is really tough sections for a beginner and esp in krikum's case you can easily get lost at some of the junctions. and funny enough, 90% of the time those are the trails people are looking for.

my personal opinion is that someone new should either:
1. go riding with someone to get shown the trails
2. start early, way before dark, have a map and go exploring


but that's mainly cause i'm quite anti-social on my solo rides, and the last thing i want to do is ride with someone else of unknown ability. sorry but you're on you're own, good luck on pipeline. obviously tho if somene is otherwise stranded on the mountain at dark i would guide them out of sheer guilt ...

[DHbiker]

I'm not wondering where the trails are, but can you guys post pictures of some of the trails mentioned such as GMG?

[Neo]

I have no problem giving directions in person.

agreed.

[heckler]

I'm not wondering where the trails are, but can you guys post pictures of some of the trails mentioned such as GMG?


buy the NSX movies and support the local film makers.

[ukal]

I like the mystique in"trails will find you",
but I show folks around my local, unless they look like they'll hurt themselves.
Though I tried 2 years to ride the shore, I've done CBC 3 times
Am I really that bad?

[Universe]

Hey look, i can quote half sentences too !

Wow...you really aren't smart.

[cam@nsmb.com]

The quote is actually 'When the rider is ready, the trail will appear.'

[AllShockedUp]

The quote is actually 'When the rider is ready, the trail will appear.'

And it's really too bad that things got blown up so much that this isn't a reality anymore.

Also, I love how the initial post seems to see no difference between someone asking for directions on the internet, and someone asking for directions in an actual conversation at the mountain.

[drummer_dil]

showing people around is good,
just today i showed 2 off coast people the goods

[ShoreIH]

Only in person and if they are obviously riders. And only to well known actual trails (on maps etc..). If I know about a trail which is obviously "hidden" and not supposed to be known about, I would not share it with other random riders out of respect for the builders of said trail.

[Templeton Peck]

Also, I love how the initial post seems to see no difference between someone asking for directions on the internet, and someone asking for directions in an actual conversation at the mountain.

I don't see much of a difference to be honest with you. I don't post directions in an open forum but I'll PM directions. When I started riding there was no NSMB, hell there was no internet. I found trials by word of mouth and later on when the first trail books with maps came out I started using those to help find stuff.
Times have changed, now there is the net and if people want to know where a trail is why not tell them? I'd tell them at the mountain so why not here? Yeah they might be some crazy guy in a hockey mask with a chainsaw pretending to be a biker, but I think I'm willing to take that chance.

[Taylor_P]

Hey look, i can quote half sentences too !


he quoted a full sentence.

[freakonaleash]

he quoted a full sentence.

Yah I know, and I quoted a half sentence

I like the mystique in"trails will find you",


Thats so true. I remember at UBC when i found those dirt jumps, i was so stoked.

[cam@nsmb.com]

I don't see much of a difference to be honest with you. I don't post directions in an open forum but I'll PM directions. When I started riding there was no NSMB, hell there was no internet. I found trials by word of mouth and later on when the first trail books with maps came out I started using those to help find stuff.
Times have changed, now there is the net and if people want to know where a trail is why not tell them? I'd tell them at the mountain so why not here? Yeah they might be some crazy guy in a hockey mask with a chainsaw pretending to be a biker, but I think I'm willing to take that chance.

Hmm. What's the difference between actual human contact and the internet? No difference I guess.

On the internet I suppose something could be passed on to 15 buddies in a matter of seconds no matter where they live. Is that different? On the internet you could give directions to a 10 year old boy without knowing you were giving directions to a 10 year old boy. Is that different? On the internet directions that were sent by pm could be posted in a forum a moment later. Any difference?

The actual code is that you don't tell anyone where certain A List trails are. You take them there and show them if you think they are up for it. That way the spread of trail info is slow and sensible rather than exponential.

If you care about the trails and continued access this is the only way to do it. Have a look at what's happening right now on Seymour if you don't get what I'm saying. It's bound to hit the fan over there because people aren't being discrete and responsible.

There are certain lines that should only be ridden occasionally and that you should always walk in (rather than skidding in hooting and hollering) but riders don't seem to give a shit anymore.

Do you give a shit?

[heckler]

well said Cam.

[Hack On Wheels]

Hmm. What's the difference between actual human contact and the internet? No difference I guess.

On the internet I suppose something could be passed on to 15 buddies in a matter of seconds no matter where they live. Is that different? On the internet you could give directions to a 10 year old boy without knowing you were giving directions to a 10 year old boy. Is that different? On the internet directions that were sent by pm could be posted in a forum a moment later. Any difference?

The actual code is that you don't tell anyone where certain A List trails are. You take them there and show them if you think they are up for it. That way the spread of trail info is slow and sensible rather than exponential.

If you care about the trails and continued access this is the only way to do it. Have a look at what's happening right now on Seymour if you don't get what I'm saying. It's bound to hit the fan over there because people aren't being discrete and responsible.

There are certain lines that should only be ridden occasionally and that you should always walk in (rather than skidding in hooting and hollering) but riders don't seem to give a shit anymore.

Do you give a shit?

I agree 100%! Perfectly said. Although I can't say I get the Seymour thing, is there something bad looming over there that people should know about?

[heckler]

I think what Cam meant was that he hopes lots of people come out on October 1 and show respect to Seymour on the CBC trail day. He said it in a round a bout, elusive manner, but that's what I heard.

[axisofevelknievel]

Although I don't fully agree with the rule (see the thread from a few months ago) as I think there are legit exceptions to the rule IN CERTAIN INSTANCES, I always enjoy this topic when it comes up for discussion.

People here will provide various reasons why it's bad (some of which are valid and some of which are BS), but the best reason I've ever seen provided is related to the Search feature located at the top of this page. Although there are various downsides (liability concerns, increased traffic) to passing on directions whether in person, by PM, or in a thread, only one of these methods can be searched after the fact by some other random unknown person.

[Universe]

Yah I know, and I quoted a half sentence


Thanks for clarifying.

[AllShockedUp]

Hmm. What's the difference between actual human contact and the internet? No difference I guess.

On the internet I suppose something could be passed on to 15 buddies in a matter of seconds no matter where they live. Is that different? On the internet you could give directions to a 10 year old boy without knowing you were giving directions to a 10 year old boy. Is that different? On the internet directions that were sent by pm could be posted in a forum a moment later. Any difference?

The actual code is that you don't tell anyone where certain A List trails are. You take them there and show them if you think they are up for it. That way the spread of trail info is slow and sensible rather than exponential.

If you care about the trails and continued access this is the only way to do it. Have a look at what's happening right now on Seymour if you don't get what I'm saying. It's bound to hit the fan over there because people aren't being discrete and responsible.

There are certain lines that should only be ridden occasionally and that you should always walk in (rather than skidding in hooting and hollering) but riders don't seem to give a shit anymore.

Do you give a shit?

Thanks for making pretty much my exact reply for me.

[Templeton Peck]

Hmm. What's the difference between actual human contact and the internet? No difference I guess.

On the internet I suppose something could be passed on to 15 buddies in a matter of seconds no matter where they live. Is that different? On the internet you could give directions to a 10 year old boy without knowing you were giving directions to a 10 year old boy. Is that different? On the internet directions that were sent by pm could be posted in a forum a moment later. Any difference?

The actual code is that you don't tell anyone where certain A List trails are. You take them there and show them if you think they are up for it. That way the spread of trail info is slow and sensible rather than exponential.

If you care about the trails and continued access this is the only way to do it. Have a look at what's happening right now on Seymour if you don't get what I'm saying. It's bound to hit the fan over there because people aren't being discrete and responsible.

There are certain lines that should only be ridden occasionally and that you should always walk in (rather than skidding in hooting and hollering) but riders don't seem to give a shit anymore.

Do you give a shit?

You make a few really good points. You are right that directions I give could be to a 10 year old boy and could be passed on to 15 people. Funny thing is, I've heard this arguement b4. But last time I heard it, people were arguing about whether or not there should be any trail maps or trail books.

All these arguments that are coming up now are the same ones I heard about Ladies Only 15 years back. Now they are about GMG (or insert cool trail of the day name here) instead. I've been thru this b4, only last time your site didn't exist.

People have different opinions and I guess mine differs from yours. When someone asks me directions I usually tell them. When I asked for directions people told me. I've talked people out of riding trails who I thought weren't up for it, but if someone insists on walking down a hard trail and looking at it instead of riding it who am I to say otherwise? Even if I don't tell them here, someone or some site will. Hasn't anyone heard of Gutsploder b4?

I don't understand what you are getting at about Seymour. IMO the problems with Seymour are

1.) It can be shuttled
2.) The trails are way to easy.

Considering there is a map of Seymour I don't see how your site can be a problem. Even if no one told anyone where CBC was, I'm sure people would find it due to the map. Maybe if it wasn't paved and insanely easy there would be less traffic on it. Last time I rode there I encountered a bunch of people on CBC but no one on Boogieman. How about make CBC as hard as Boogieman and that might discourage the masses.

So to answer all your questions, yes I have done trail maintenance b4. I've probably done more than most. Do I give a shit? By your definition I guess I don't.

[HeadOverWheels]

^^

I think the point sort of was, when people ask on the internet you don t know who you're getting. Maybe biker, maybe kid, maybe someone that just wants to destroy a spot for bikers to ride. Maybe these people are very stupid and even know about the maps you can buy. These people are NOT very good at 'Letting the trail find them' which is why you started this thread.

If you asked me, CBC is an incredible trail built to handle a beating but you maybe also right that a more difficult trail would spread the usage. But holy hell, i don t see a new trail popping up there anytime soon.

moral of the story, just telling random people where a trail is may just not benefit anyone in the future.

[dudski]

you have a 2 minutes conversation with them in which you gauge by themselves (and their bicycles) if they can throw down...and after that two minutes you either point them in the direction of the good stuff or the almost as good stuff.

i still don't believe no one on here skids when they ride.

[synchro]

I don't understand what you are getting at about Seymour.

on all the mountains there are trails that are not on the map, call them secret trails for lack of a better description. these trails cannot sustain high levels of traffic and stay in primo shape. the small group of people that know about them would like to keep them in great shape. most of these people stay off these trails in the wet and don't ride the crap out of them. because of this, they stay nice and loamy and don't turn into rutted out messes like ned's or end up completley paved like cbc or UOC.

by keeping the knowledge to people who respect the trails these "secret" or lesser know trails stay in nice shape. as they knowledge spreads though, and the idiots start riding the lesser know trails they start getting chewed to crap. (****edited trailname***) HANKYPOO is a great example as over the past couple of years it's taken a fair amount of abuse and it's showing.

by posting directions here the whole world knows. by pm'ing directions to someone you don't personally know you are also effectively letting the whole world know. by only showing people you know and trust you go a long way to helping the trail(s) stay in great shape.

call it elitist, being an asshole or whatever you want, but the fact is that the less people that know about a trail the better shape it stays in. if people learned to ride properly and respect the trails it might not be so much of an issue.

ps - i would hazard a guess that most newer riders (anyone who's stated up within the last 4 years or so) do not know what proper riding technique and respect for the trails are unless they happen to ride with people that have been around for a while.

[Incorrigible]

Our sport is new. We are still attracting new people to it. However, the vast marjority of guys and girls will be very happy to be able to ride down CBC, so show them that. But the other spots (more sensitive trails) will be there for those who go often enough and meet enough people. What builders are saying is that if you put the time in, spend the time to get to know people, you get to ride the more interesting stuff, EVENTUALLY. But most newcomers to the shore can't ride it anyhow, so what's the point in showing it to them?

[Onegear]

As a person who came to the shore 6 years ago, If I had been shown the primo trails that I have just been enlightned to. I wouldn't have appreciate the sweet flowing line or the depth of the pine needles. Not because I'm a granola crunching retro grouch, but because I had grown up riding in Alberta for 6+ year before I moved here.
I had to learn new stuff and to find trails that matched my ability. I started like so many on pipeline, solo. and It was a couple of years ago that I started finding the "supersecret trails" like the dump trail, walk in the clouds, and others. I totally agree with the thread title, if you relax and get a bit adventurous, the trails will find you. or at least let you hook up with some cool folks that know the trails.

[Knnn]

I have been riding for just over two years, I don't think I know any secret trails, which does not bother me in the slightest because I have not ridden all the well known/mapped/gutsploder trails. If people ask for trail locations a helpfull pointer to gutsploder or NSMBA trail maps is more than enough. When people have ridden all these trails then they are likley to have found some of the other less well mapped trails or have met people who know them and are ready to ride them.

[Templeton Peck]

Synchro, good point. I agree with you about HANKYPOO. As always there are exceptions to every rule and that would be one of mine. So maybe I am just another elitist asshole after all.

What actually made me start this thread was the responses people were getting when asking about Platinum. Your point about HANKYPOO is a good one, so I guess the question now is what makes a trail a "secret trail".

Is Platinum a secret trail? I don't think its on Gutsploder, but I would hardly call it secret. It's been in videos and on Dropin. It's not an illegal trail either, yet when someone asks where it is no one will tell them.
The Woodlot has seen a huge increase in the number of riders in the last few years. I prefered the old days when it was locals, but hey the trails are so good, people are going to come. I don't think that sending a few PM's is going to significantly add to the volume of riders. I think that was taken care of when the guy on Dropin was telling everyone it was the greatest trail and everyone should go ride it. Somehow I think that nationally televised show reached more people than a couple of PMs.

[Lady Gravity]

there's just no way i'd tell a random stranger where platinum is IMO the guys that built it would be less than thrilled, regardless of the fact that it's appeared in some movies. however, if i'm riding with a group of friends that i think can respect the trail, then yes i might show them.

[KenN]

HANKYPOO is a great example as over the past couple of years it's taken a fair amount of abuse and it's showing.

Well, one thing about HANKYPOO to keep in mind. It's not a 'secret' trail. Technically, it's illegal. And not illegal in the "DNV turns a blind eye" sense, but illegal in the "BC Parks will charge you if they catch you" sense of the word.

Kn.

[synchro]

Well, one thing about HANKYPOO to keep in mind. It's not a 'secret' trail. Technically, it's illegal. And not illegal in the "DNV turns a blind eye" sense, but illegal in the "BC Parks will charge you if they catch you" sense of the word.

Kn.

Ken, anything that is not on a map or a well known trail i would/could label as secret. a lot of people may not consider HANKYPOO secret, but as the general riding public doesn't know about it that makes it kind of secret in my books.

ultimately, traffic is what kills a trail. if you don't want a trail to get punched quickly or require a lot of maintenance then you keep it on the down low.

[bunny]

Well, one thing about HANKYPOO to keep in mind. It's not a 'secret' trail. Technically, it's illegal. And not illegal in the "DNV turns a blind eye" sense, but illegal in the "BC Parks will charge you if they catch you" sense of the word.

Kn.

what excactly will they "charge" you with? sure it's far from a secret but you aren't going to get thrown in jail for riding it either.

wandering through the woods aimlessly you will find way more interesting stuff then anyone can show you. truley nonexistent trails are the best ever. :)

[Tom]

When I wrote my earlier post in this thread, i was referring to known trails. I would never give directions to "secret" or "less-known" trails to someone i didn't know.

[synchro]

When I wrote my earlier post in this thread, i was referring to known trails. I would never give directions to "secret" or "less-known" trails to someone i didn't know.

i agree, for trails that are general knowledge, i don't see a problem giving directions to people asking on the mountain. on a bb it just doesn't sit right with me. go do some exploring or hook up with someone for a ride if you want to find new stuff.

[Templeton Peck]

there's just no way i'd tell a random stranger where platinum is IMO the guys that built it would be less than thrilled, regardless of the fact that it's appeared in some movies. however, if i'm riding with a group of friends that i think can respect the trail, then yes i might show them.

So you check with the builders of all trails before you give directions? Do you ask Digger before you tell someone where Ladies is? How long does the trail have to be in existence for before you stop asking the builders?

Those trails are legal and are built on public land. While I am grateful for the work being done by the builders, I fail to see how they have any authority to restrict someones access to crown land. That being said, everyone should respect posted trail closures due to weather or maintenance/trail conditions or whatever, but I don't see the rationale behind asking the builders before showing someone a completed and open trail.

[synchro]

I don't see the rationale behind asking the builders before showing someone a completed and open trail.

ultimately, traffic is what kills a trail. if you don't want a trail to get punched quickly or require a lot of maintenance then you keep it on the down low.

if you built a trail that required a lot of effort you may not want to see it thrashed quickly.

[Templeton Peck]

if you built a trail that required a lot of effort you may not want to see it thrashed quickly.

If you want to build a trail for you and a select group of friends to ride, don't build it on public land. Build it on private property where you will have a fighting chance at controlling access to it.

So since you built a trail, maybe you could post up your cell number so I can call you before telling anyone where it is.

[seeformiles]

For me, it's about respecting the wishes of the community of people who build and maintain these trails for us all to use. They have built some amazing trails and, more importantly, have done their best to ensure that we can use them. For that they deserve our respect. You can argue from an 'information wants to be free' position, but honestly I prefer their position - it addresses the realities of the situation better than an idealistic approach. I think the reality here is that the trails in question - the trails not marked on other, freely available maps - are trails could not survive as public trails. And the trails that I CAN find on those freely available maps are going to keep me busy for a couple of years yet.

[synchro]

If you want to build a trail for you and a select group of friends to ride, don't build it on public land. Build it on private property where you will have a fighting chance at controlling access to it.

So since you built a trail, maybe you could post up your cell number so I can call you before telling anyone where it is.

lol - the trail i built is public knowledge and on maps so it's not really a worry.

i think the debate comes down to a difference of opinion as there are rational arguements on either side. but, the other thing to keep in mind is that the owners of this site have asked that we not post directions to trails on the bb, to at least use pm's. as we use this service for free, i don't see a problem in respecting their wishes.

[Rat]

can we delete the name of the down low trail guys. thanks

[LeeLau]

Talking openly about riding a trail that Parks has flagged as closed on a bulletin board that's public and waving it in their face -> not a good call.

[nouseforaname]

what excactly will they "charge" you with? sure it's far from a secret but you aren't going to get thrown in jail for riding it either.


No, but you will be paying a $100 dollar fine.

[Lady Gravity]

So you check with the builders of all trails before you give directions? Do you ask Digger before you tell someone where Ladies is? How long does the trail have to be in existence for before you stop asking the builders?

no of course not, but i have met a lot of the woodlot builders and i respect their work, and platinum hasn't really been built to withstand a lot of traffic (unlike salvation). also, it IS hard to find unless you know where you're going, so directions would be hard to give in any event - i think i tried to tell bunny and got her lost :P

[DaveM]

And I'm willing to bet (well maybe not bet) that Platinum is not on Gutsploder because they were asked not to put it there.

[CraigH]

I'm not wondering where the trails are, but can you guys post pictures of some of the trails mentioned such as GMG?

3 here:

http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-24,GGLG:en&q=fromme%20gmg&sa=N&tab=wi

[CraigH]

you have a 2 minutes conversation with them in which you gauge by themselves (and their bicycles) if they can throw down...

A few years ago a guy on the bottom of Cypress asked me where the trails were.

He was on a beat commuter bike, rack included.

I suggested Stupid Grouse (back when there was still something to ride), and gave him a warning about what to expect.

[thad]

First trail I ever rode on the Shore was HANKYPOO. I came into the Cove, at the end of a cross country road trip, thinking I was pretty hot stuff, asking to see the hard trails. "Oh, yeah, eh? Murican thinks he can ride the hard trails?" Gabe Fox took me out. I got WORKED! I thought the shore was all about skinnies and ladders. I had no idea how steep it is. Cartwheeling down every steep corner, but getting back up, to giver again. Alot of laughs were had at my expense back at the Cove, but I made some good friends, too.

I still can't believe Wade gapped to the second face on the double steep hankypoo line on a carbon fiber XC urt rocky.

[BlurryTrees]

Was up on the woodlot making my way up to the head of Blooddonor, felt a little bored so I desided to go for a trek. Stumble upon the infamous Platinum. And...uhmm...yeah, I aint ready for that sucker. I few things I can do, but others make me just sit down, shake my head and ask my self WTF. Non the less...im determined to master that bitch...eventually.

But as I write this, that's exactly what It was like when I found CBC. I asked my self who in there right mind rides this shit. A few years later, it's just a good warm up for the rest of the Mountain.

I guess the saying is true. It may not seem like your ready to others or even to you. You may think your way over your head, but if you found it....then your ready.

[LeeLau]

thad - you're way too humble. Even when I rode with you long time ago on Cypress you still knew how to ride a bike.

[Duncan]

A few years ago a guy on the bottom of Cypress asked me where the trails were.

He was on a beat commuter bike, rack included.

I suggested Stupid Grouse (back when there was still something to ride), and gave him a warning about what to expect.

I think that was me, and I took a few wrong turns and ended up riding down Jet Girl/Jet Boy instead. D.

[DHbiker]

Any pictures of this crazy stuff like Platnium that you speak of?

I checked out Gutsploder and there are some pretty cool pictures but what about this stuff you speak of?

Oh yeah, CraigH thanks for the pictures, that guy on the Unicycle is crazy!

[CraigH]

Any pictures of this crazy stuff like Platnium that you speak of?


:google:

LeeL has some on the bottom of this older page.
http://www.leelau.net/2003/Vedder_WoodlotJuly2003/VedderWoodlot.htm

[heckler]

geez, I wonder if they've built anything on Platinum since 2003...

[thebigchin]

I think that was me, and I took a few wrong turns and ended up riding down Jet Girl/Jet Boy instead. D.

Those are some crazy wrong turns!

[TheGiggler]

fuck man, way too many people who cant keep their fucking mouths shut.

both on this board and in real life.

seems like most people these days just blab about every trail they hear, thus giving most "secret" trails a 6 month lifespan before being punched out like every other trail on the shore.

someone shows you a trail and it's loamy ... how about you do us all a fuckign favor and (a) dont ever post about it on here and (b) dont show it to every fucking person you've ever ridden with

i realize you gotta share the goods with you bros, but too many people take it way beyond that ... sharing the goods with random people they've never met in the parking lot.

you'd almost think that people dont like loamy trails so they want them to get punched out, by how loose people's lips are.

rant over

[LeeLau]

giggler said what I wanted to say but didn't want to say because I have to be all polite and all that bs.

[enduramil]

So you check with the builders of all trails before you give directions? Do you ask Digger before you tell someone where Ladies is? How long does the trail have to be in existence for before you stop asking the builders?

Those trails are legal and are built on public land. While I am grateful for the work being done by the builders, I fail to see how they have any authority to restrict someones access to crown land. That being said, everyone should respect posted trail closures due to weather or maintenance/trail conditions or whatever, but I don't see the rationale behind asking the builders before showing someone a completed and open trail.

Let's look at this from a different angle.

In this day and age with people spending less of their daily life in the outdoors. Especially the teenagers. Less people have the skills to navigate their way around the North Shore.

So one of these individuals posts up asking about let's say Bitches Brew. I give them directions. They ride the trail, fall and get seriously hurt. On top of that they get lost. After North Shore SAR pulls them out who do you think gets blamed.

Anyone asks me where a trail is I tell them to spend the money and get the maps. Plus hook up with others who can show them the area.

[enduramil]

fuck man, way too many people who cant keep their fucking mouths shut.

both on this board and in real life.

seems like most people these days just blab about every trail they hear, thus giving most "secret" trails a 6 month lifespan before being punched out like every other trail on the shore.

someone shows you a trail and it's loamy ... how about you do us all a fuckign favor and (a) dont ever post about it on here and (b) dont show it to every fucking person you've ever ridden with

i realize you gotta share the goods with you bros, but too many people take it way beyond that ... sharing the goods with random people they've never met in the parking lot.

you'd almost think that people dont like loamy trails so they want them to get punched out, by how loose people's lips are.

rant over

Here, here.

I belive Digger used to break fingers in regards to this.

[Tom]

geez, I wonder if they've built anything on Platinum since 2003...

Nope, it's in really bad shape, as is the rest of the woodlot. The builders have gotten lazy so it's not worth the drive out there. Just stick to CBC.

[Bryce]

seems like most people these days just blab about every trail they hear, thus giving most "secret" trails a 6 month lifespan before being punched out like every other trail on the shore.

I've sorta considered not putting names on new stuff for that exact reason. I know it only delays the inevitable but I'm thinking that people don't have a name rattling around in their head, it might help keep them quiet.

"I've been riding that one where you stop on trail x near that rock thing, ya know? and you climb over the big log, ya know the wooden one, and then you traverse until you see the thing with the stuff... ya know that trail?"

[KenN]

Honestly, I think it's something between dangerously stupid and incredibly irresponsible to show up somewhere at the edge of the wilderness with no idea of where you're going.

I mean, seriously, what kind of twit shows up at a place where making a wrong turn could mean spending a night in the cold, serious injury or even death without investing in a simple map? Cause that's the North Shore ... there are some dangerous wrong turns to be made and we see it on the news a few times a year.

So, if some random stranger shows up when I start a ride and asks me something like "dude, where are the trails at", I have no respect for that person's basic preparedness and feel no obligation at all to give him/her directions to the so-called "toughest trails in the world". I sure as hell don't want that person to hook onto my riding group and wind up babysitting someone with that kind of terrible judgement all the way down the trail!

Now, if someone I don't know arranges in advance to meet me (say, friend of a friend) and we have some time to talk and I can assess his/her skill level then I can plan the day and pick a trail accordingly. At least this person has shown enough smarts to arrange in advance for a guide!

Kn.

[enduramil]

Just recalled something from the movie The Emergence.

There is a section with the guy's of Team Herberber talking about this amazing scret, secret trail of Diggers. Digger refused to give any info. One of the guy's kept thinking about it for weeks. Then one night had woke up with one of those "ah ha" moments.

Next day went to the area, bush bashed in, and rode it. Of course running into Digger who wasn't to happy.

A classic example of you will know when it's time.

[TheGiggler]

Honestly, I think it's something between dangerously stupid and incredibly irresponsible to show up somewhere at the edge of the wilderness with no idea of where you're going.

I mean, seriously, what kind of twit shows up at a place where making a wrong turn could mean spending a night in the cold, serious injury or even death without investing in a simple map? Cause that's the North Shore ... there are some dangerous wrong turns to be made and we see it on the news a few times a year.

So, if some random stranger shows up when I start a ride and asks me something like "dude, where are the trails at", I have no respect for that person's basic preparedness and feel no obligation at all to give him/her directions to the so-called "toughest trails in the world". I sure as hell don't want that person to hook onto my riding group and wind up babysitting someone with that kind of terrible judgement all the way down the trail!



well said, and 1oo% true and accurate.

these kind of people are all too common on fromme and especially seymour.

[smoochy]

does shutting up about trails include a ban on dropping massive hints about secret trails and their locations and posting tantalizing pics and stories telling us how wicked it is and don't you wish you were here? and then being surprised that newbs, hacks, tom, dick and harry start looking for your stash because they are curious and adventurous just like you?

just askin' is all...

[synchro]

does shutting up about trails include a ban on dropping massive hints about secret trails and their locations and posting tantalizing pics and stories telling us how wicked it is and don't you wish you were here? and then being surprised that newbs, hacks, tom, dick and harry start looking for your stash because they are curious and adventurous just like you?

just askin' is all...

you mean like that killer rock face filled trail on the north side of fromme that goes down to the hydro station?

[smoochy]

you mean like that killer rock face filled trail on the north side of fromme that goes down to the hydro station?

exactly. but shut up.

[LeeLau]

does shutting up about trails include a ban on dropping massive hints about secret trails and their locations and posting tantalizing pics and stories telling us how wicked it is and don't you wish you were here? and then being surprised that newbs, hacks, tom, dick and harry start looking for your stash because they are curious and adventurous just like you?

just askin' is all...

or how about posting pictures of glorious alpine settings then putting up maps then putting up elevation profiles of how much climbing you have to do to get there? What kind of asshole does that?

[Lady Gravity]

or how about posting pictures of glorious alpine settings then putting up maps then putting up elevation profiles of how much climbing you have to do to get there? What kind of asshole does that?

an elitist one?

[Uncle Duke]

i was thinking it would prolly take a semi-retired lawyer, w bad vision in 1 eye..

[heckler]

at least most of you don't get emails when you're at work full of same pictures of alpine get-aways on Thursday afternoon.

[Incorrigible]

No Lee, not that kind of A... Those directions eliminate a good number due to the climbing aspect described therin the article. Nice one by the way.

[enduramil]

an elitist one?

I was more thinking a rider who really nmees to get back on his meds.

[BertyG]

Another problem is people get shown a trail and then that gets passed on to another friend and then another friend shows someone else ect ect.. destruction of trail. Thus making someones work usless and ruining it for that person and others who put effort in the trail for other people to destroy

[Niggz]

I am not impressed with some of the shit in this thread.

[synchro]

Another problem is people get shown a trail and then that gets passed on to another friend and then another friend shows someone else ect ect.. destruction of trail. Thus making someones work usless and ruining it for that person and others who put effort in the trail for other people to destroy

build it and they will come.

i think you can't really get upset with people that ride a trail on public land whether it's secret or not. you can do whatever you want to try and keep it secret, but people are going to find it anyway. i think you can and should get pissed at people that braid lines and do dumbass things on the trail to accelerate its demise though.

[sid vicious]

\"trails find you when you're ready"


sounds like a bumch of morpheus mumbojumbo

[clown]

build it and they will come.

i think you can't really get upset with people that ride a trail on public land whether it's secret or not. you can do whatever you want to try and keep it secret, but people are going to find it anyway. i think you can and should get pissed at people that braid lines and do dumbass things on the trail to accelerate its demise though.


I AGREE!!!!

For the "minor" amount of building,maintenance I do, nothing makes me smile more than hearing hoots and hollers on "our" trail. Other riders enjoying what "we" have created and crafted.
To me that's what it's all about.
Build it to ride it,
BUT
also to bring that feeling of "flow" to others.

[the flying moose]

and sometimes trails find you when you arent ready and they walk in on you changing or taking a poo.

http://xc9.xanga.com/9bdb60524503242498461/z28414886.jpg

talk about embarassing.

[Jerry-Rig]

what he said...


fuck man, way too many people who cant keep their fucking mouths shut.

both on this board and in real life.

seems like most people these days just blab about every trail they hear, thus giving most "secret" trails a 6 month lifespan before being punched out like every other trail on the shore.

someone shows you a trail and it's loamy ... how about you do us all a fuckign favor and (a) dont ever post about it on here and (b) dont show it to every fucking person you've ever ridden with

i realize you gotta share the goods with you bros, but too many people take it way beyond that ... sharing the goods with random people they've never met in the parking lot.

you'd almost think that people dont like loamy trails so they want them to get punched out, by how loose people's lips are.

rant over

[Farmer]

I completly agree with "the trails find you when you are ready" yesterday, I was hiking up burke, when I noticed a ladder just off on of the roads, where I had no idea that there was a trail. I've been on that road a billion times, and the ladder looked pretty old, so I was amased that I had missed it all those times. If I wasn't already late for dinner, I would have gone and checked it out, but now I'mm gonna have to wait for nexttime I'm up there to find the thing.

On the other hand, if someone wants directions to a trail like CBC or something like that, a trail that is really well known, I'm not gonna tell them to F off or anything

[skimtb1]

fuck man, way too many people who cant keep their fucking mouths shut.

both on this board and in real life.

seems like most people these days just blab about every trail they hear, thus giving most "secret" trails a 6 month lifespan before being punched out like every other trail on the shore.

someone shows you a trail and it's loamy ... how about you do us all a fucking favor and (a) dont ever post about it on here and (b) dont show it to every fucking person you've ever ridden with

you'd almost think that people dont like loamy trails so they want them to get punched out, by how loose people's lips are.


the elitist attitude is kinda lame. then again i'm from nelson where there are probably more trails than die-hard riders...

[Incorrigible]

Most trails are pretty well empty most of the time on the Shore too. Not that you'd know it from here. Or maybe that's just every time I go back to ride. Those must be the only quiet days.

[Hack On Wheels]

Some of the attitudes may seem elitist but if things are done in some of the suggested ways it can be a good system. People who are beginners to the sport can easily find and ride the well mantained higher profile trails. Then they have a chance to hone skills. They can get more involved in the riding community, trail days, just meeting people when riding etc. They get to know riders who they can learn skills from and then also learn some trail locations. At this point they understand how to ride, how precious the trails are and the effort needed to maintain them. The other option is to do a lot of sleuthing/exploring, most people won't but they have the option.
Frankly, I would love to be told where "secret" trails are, I sure haven't found many but slowly my trail knowledge expands and it keeps me happy... People shouldn't seriously expect to win the grand prize when it's one of their first times playing the game (so to speak).

[mattj]

^well said dude!


-m

[Universe]

an elitist one?

:agree:

[freakonaleash]

I say if its on private property its yours and secret, and you do whatever the fuck you want.

If its on public property, than dont bitch and complain.

[Tom]

Some of the attitudes may seem elitist but if things are done in some of the suggested ways it can be a good system. People who are beginners to the sport can easily find and ride the well mantained higher profile trails. Then they have a chance to hone skills. They can get more involved in the riding community, trail days, just meeting people when riding etc. They get to know riders who they can learn skills from and then also learn some trail locations. At this point they understand how to ride, how precious the trails are and the effort needed to maintain them. The other option is to do a lot of sleuthing/exploring, most people won't but they have the option.
Frankly, I would love to be told where "secret" trails are, I sure haven't found many but slowly my trail knowledge expands and it keeps me happy... People shouldn't seriously expect to win the grand prize when it's one of their first times playing the game (so to speak).

Very well said! Getting involved with trail maintenance is a great way to find out where the goods are.

[axisofevelknievel]

the elitist attitude is kinda lame. then again i'm from nelson where there are probably more trails than die-hard riders...

I used to think that the elitist attitude coming from so many of the Vancouver riders was kind of lame as well until I took into account exactly what kind of political battlefield the whole concept of people out riding through the woods & having fun was. While I'd hate to see that kind of attitude in a small town, maybe it's a necessity in a city. Was that last sentence hypocritical? Maybe.

Part of me would love to know where these secret trails are. Not because I feel like I deserve to know where they are or that I absolutely must ride them ASAP, but because I'd love to know how you can build a trail on the side of a mountain on the edge of a huge metropolitan area where land use issues are so contentious.

[Rat]

the elitist attitude is kinda lame. then again i'm from nelson where there are probably more trails than die-hard riders...


I think you would sing a differnt tune if your trails were as punched as they are up here.

[TheGiggler]

I used to think that the elitist attitude coming from so many of the Vancouver riders was kind of lame as well until I took into account exactly what kind of political battlefield the whole concept of people out riding through the woods & having fun was. While I'd hate to see that kind of attitude in a small town, maybe it's a necessity in a city. Was that last sentence hypocritical? Maybe.

Part of me would love to know where these secret trails are. Not because I feel like I deserve to know where they are or that I absolutely must ride them ASAP, but because I'd love to know how you can build a trail on the side of a mountain on the edge of a huge metropolitan area where land use issues are so contentious.


you really have not much of a clue.

keep asking about secret whis trails on here ... i'm sure the whistler builders LOVE that ... best way to get tight with them for sure

[Rat]

There is only one reason people dont share the very few trails that are still prime. Its not because thier elitists or assholes although in this case thegiggler is both of those.

No matter where a trail is built there is a point where it is self sustaining , a trail will naturally re-loam itself. once there is to much traffic things go to shit in a hurry.

end of story

[axisofevelknievel]

you really have not much of a clue.

keep asking about secret whis trails on here ... i'm sure the whistler builders LOVE that ... best way to get tight with them for sure

Really? I like to think that I have at least part of a clue. Oh well.

Maybe I didn't phrase my previous post very well. For the most part, I don't care where any secret trails are. I ride in Vancouver very rarely and have no need to know where secret trails are, nor do I feel that I deserve to know.

As for Whistler, I've asked about one secret trail. I'm not even sure how secret it is, as its location was mentioned in the Whistler papers a few times last fall in regards to a bike race. I didn't even ask about that trails location, instead I was asking what the trail was like to determine whether it was worth the climb. Although I'm sure that there are several secret trails in Whistler that I'm missing out on, I also know that there are several well-known trails here that I'm missing out on that I rarely or never ride.

[Uncle Duke]

I think you would sing a differnt tune if your trails were as punched as they are up here.


when I was in nellie last yr I thought it was punched out pretty bad actually.

[skimtb1]

when I was in nellie last yr I thought it was punched out pretty bad actually.

maybe we just ride the gnar and don't whine about it?

jokes, jokes, jokes.

i guess what i should be saying is that anyone who tried even a little bit, would be pointed in the right direction by a friendly local.

[wizardB]

Repeat after me;There are no secret trails
There are no secret trails
There are no secret trails
There are no secret trails
There are no secret trails
Now please remember;
There are no secret trails
There are no secret trails
There are no secret trails
There are no secret trails
There are no secret............. .................................................. ......................................

[thad]

I really, REALLY wish people wouldn't post pictures, videos, trail names, or directions of trails that are not on the internet. Do a search. If you can't find the area, don't post.