climbs on fromme

[dey]

where are the tunnel of love and king of the shore climbs on fromme, cant seem to find them on any maps

[Oldfart]

Start down upper Griffen when you come out in a clearing which has a very large puddle in it which is an old logging road, there are two choices, continue straight down, Tunnel of Love or go right and take the first left after oh, 30 metres?, that's King of the Shore. It used to be that Griffen was only the section past that. Where the big wooden sign is that says Griffen was the lead in to Tunnel Of Love.

[Bryce]

they're generally done downhill but you can do em uphill too

[taprider]

The trail was originally and still correctly called the "Kings Crawl" not King of the Shore. Mitch Diem built/reactivated the Kings Crawl as the climbing portion of his King of the Shore race series back in the 1990s. The trail is meant to be ridden uphill and is still 100% percent cleanable.
The entire King of the Shore circuit includes Kings Crawl, Roadside Attraction, Upper Griffen (which used to have a different name) and Tunnel of Love (which used to be overgrown/thickly lined with young trees, and was really narrow and dark).
The real Griffen is just the lower switchback bit immediatly above the Frog Pond. Named for son of Marcie Woods (Marcie is the former Western Canadian Champion Downhiller and maybe XC Champion too)
Baden Powell/Wardens Trial was also cleanable up from the Frog Pond to the lower gate prior to NSMBA's trail work, but there is still an alternate trail for the lower portion which is cleanable (while rolling and not requiring trials hopping).

[white ri0t]

feel free not to post directions on the board, much better if you PM them to the member.

[Graydon]

Not post directions to sanctioned North Shore Fromme trails???

huh?

[heckler]

they're generally done downhill but now that I think about it you could pedal up from Mtn View park, up the switchbacks (aka Down and Out, aka Red Legged Frog...), right on the doubletrack, and then the second left up KOTS or just continue straight up Tunnel. I've never tried it though


Now that MVP is paved (literally), it's a great XC climb, until you get about half way up the switchbacks. I've done it twice now on the new Fuel. With some more practice I think 75% of the S-B's are also ridable (just not the steep corners)

[Duncan]

Not post directions to sanctioned North Shore Fromme trails???

huh?

Note these boards are trolled by anti-MTB people - and the residents around MVP have recently persuaded the DNV to start requiring "large groups" to obtain permits to ride Lower Fromme which set conditions on who can ride what where and when. This is probably the first baby-step, testing the waters for full-blown trail closures, unless enough people express an opinion otherwise. So you be the judge on whether it is appropriate to publicize detailed ride routes and directions on a public forum. I'm not being a smartass, I'm just saying its a grey area that it is a judgement call. I personally would PM the person ... D.

[Bryce]

So you be the judge on whether it is appropriate to publicize detailed ride routes and directions on a public forum. .

never thought of it that way. Edited

[enduramil]

Go by a bike shop and pick up a trail map. It will show you where some of the trails are. Other than that check under ride planning for a group ride.

[smoochy]

never thought of it that way. Edited

How about this:

the more secretive we are about the trails, the less the residents and the district are going to trust us.

if those parties wish to issue permits and shut down trails, we should respond to those issues with openness and good faith.

i vote for transparency.

[taprider]

Isn't it easier for the District to shut a trail down if they believe that very few people ride it, or that the only ones who ride it are overly aggressive speedsters. Isn't it better to make it known that many of us bike from our own home, take "ALL" the urban trails up to the Frog Pond and enjoy biking up from there. The more people who bike uphill and don't use a car, the more Green we appear politically, and therefore, the harder to justify shutting a commonly used trail down.

I bike uphill from the Frog Pond to the 1st switchback more than I ride downhill on the so called hardcore freeride trails. I don't like it when our representatives say that mountain bikers don't use Baden Powell ( I do and its part of my favourite climb).

[Oldfart]

Isn't it easier for the District to shut a trail down if they believe that very few people ride it, or that the only ones who ride it are overly aggressive speedsters. Isn't it better to make it known that many of us bike from our own home, take "ALL" the urban trails up to the Frog Pond and enjoy biking up from there. The more people who bike uphill and don't use a car, the more Green we appear politically, and therefore, the harder to justify shutting a commonly used trail down.

I bike uphill from the Frog Pond to the 1st switchback more than I ride downhill on the so called hardcore freeride trails. I don't like it when our representatives say that mountain bikers don't use Baden Powell ( I do and its part of my favourite climb).


Here here. (or is it hear hear?) I agree 100%. The so called "progression" of XC mountainbiking to freeriding has changed the nature of the trails on the shore and the riders have changed as well. You be the judge. A non rider resident sees a couple of tired XC riders on "small" bikes covered in mud who probably rode a large loop versus a couple of mud covered guys on what look like motorcycles without a motor wearing full face helmets and pads shuttling several runs a day. What is the perception, right or wrong? Like it or not, I think that there is a perception by many that we are all a bunch of crazy yahoos ripping up the forest to build stunts and that some how all this trail building and riding will disturbe the peace and tranquility of the forest and the creatures which inhabit this second growth will flee in fear. Hmmm. Like the racoons skunks and coyotes in my neighbourhood. And the bears which seem to wander about ingnoring most.

I don't see any reason not to provide trail directions on this board for legitimate open to riding trails.

[Duncan]

I disagree about the "perception thing", especially wrt Lower Fromme. The most vocal anti-MTB people are against MTB in general. They want everyone out of their neighbourhood. There is nothing rational there from our perspective. Its a NIMBY thing, and they will never be convinced otherwise. They don't distinguish between hardcore freeriders, highschool XC teams out for a spin and summer camp rides for 7-year-olds. They want everyone out of their neighbourhood. That precisely is what is happening on Lower Fromme right now. Lower Fromme is the issue because it is heavily ridden.

If you read the original post, dey was asking about trails that he couldn't find on any maps (I'm not sure if the ones he asked about are on any maps - I've never used trail maps). As for sanctioned trails, I don't think there is such a thing. By sanctioning trails, the DNV would be setting itself up for a lawsuit. Suppose, the District says "You can ride your bike here." You ride there and fall off a ladder bridge and become a quadrapalegic. You then try to sue the district because they said it was OK for me to ride my bike there. (Maybe I'm wrong here, but that was my impression - I'm no lawyer however). The District used to pretend they didn't know the trails existed, but that's going to change. From what I understand the District's policy is on Fromme is basically no *new trails* are to be built. I believe it also had very recently a policy of *no trail maintainance* (since modified to trail maintainance with permission/permit). That's my understanding, but anyone feel free to enlighten me ...

[taprider]

I consider Lower Fromme my neighbourhood. Although I live too low down to be part of that Upper Lynn Valley Group

[cam@nsmb.com]

The trail was originally and still correctly called the "Kings Crawl" not King of the Shore. Mitch Diem built/reactivated the Kings Crawl as the climbing portion of his King of the Shore race series back in the 1990s. The trail is meant to be ridden uphill and is still 100% percent cleanable.
The entire King of the Shore circuit includes Kings Crawl, Roadside Attraction, Upper Griffen (which used to have a different name) and Tunnel of Love (which used to be overgrown/thickly lined with young trees, and was really narrow and dark).
The real Griffen is just the lower switchback bit immediatly above the Frog Pond. Named for son of Marcie Woods (Marcie is the former Western Canadian Champion Downhiller and maybe XC Champion too)
Baden Powell/Wardens Trial was also cleanable up from the Frog Pond to the lower gate prior to NSMBA's trail work, but there is still an alternate trail for the lower portion which is cleanable (while rolling and not requiring trials hopping).

Wow - that's some good info. You obviously have some deep Shore roots. Please keep sharing your knowledge - the history of the Shore is an oral one for now but if folks like yourself keep posting here we'll have a record.