Shimano Dura Ace 2007/2008 patent applications

[thewalrus]

I'm sure many people here have already seen the prototype Campy Record Electric system, it's been used at Paris-Roubaix and other races as a prototype for the past couple of years. Here are the European patent office applications for Shimano's new electric system.

Interestingly the control mechanism is supposed to go within the seatpost. The Campagnolo prototype has the battery and computer mounted in a rectangular block under the downtube water bottle cage.

Diagrams:
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdraw?IDX=EP1609716&RPN=EP1609716&DOC=cca34af198500dc48442fab77f39e0b057&QPN=EP1609716

Seatpost and full application:
https://publications.european-patent-office.org/PublicationServer/documentpdf.jsp?iDocId=415745&sDummyParam=.pdf

Shifter diagrams:
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdraw?DB=EPODOC&IDX=DE69829234T&F=0&QPN=DE69829234T

[Kye]

Mavic had an electric der. a few years ago, i will see if i can dig up some photos.

[brian]

http://www.yellowjersey.org/mavmek.html

[Kye]

http://www.europeiskacykel.com/produkter/komponentgrupper/mavic_bild/images/mektronic.jpg

[synchro]

that's gonna be a big hit on all the weight weenies.

[sanrensho]

Campy has been field-testing an electronic grouppo in the pro peloton for a couple of years. Personally, I hope it never sees the commercial light of day and Shimano follows suit.

There are enough problems with the mechanical aspects of bike components without adding in the electronics factor. I sure as hell do not want to deal with electronics and further black boxing on something as simple as a bike.

OTOH, it could be nifty to have on a town/cruiser bike. I expect to see it in those applications first.

[sanrensho]

http://www.europeiskacykel.com/produkter/komponentgrupper/mavic_bild/images/mektronic.jpg

Thanks for posting that. Now I can die knowing that I've seen the world's ugliest brifter every made.

[sanrensho]

Shimano already has working prototypes, as seen on these Gerolsteiner team bikes:

http://www.velonews.com/phorum3/read.php?f=2&i=131500&t=131500#reply_131500

[Mattman]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/news/03-09

[pete@nsmb.com]

Shimano already has working prototypes, as seen on these Gerolsteiner team bikes:

http://www.velonews.com/phorum3/read.php?f=2&i=131500&t=131500#reply_131500

I saw it in the flesh about three weeks ago on Ronnie's bike. Derailleurs are FUGLY in person. Shifters look fine (but get rid of the displays - plus if you think about it, most people have their hands in the way and levers rotated in such a way that they'd never be able to read the display even if they used it).

I don't know, it seems a bit far-fetched, especially when the biggest advantage they list for racers is foolproof shifting when tired...

"Oh yeah, I was second wheel and pulled out to start my sprint with 160 meters to go. My legs felt great but my index finger was tired. i couldn't slam it into my 11...McEwen, who has studly finger strength, shifted fast and clean and got by me." Pssssh - whatever.

I tend to agree - for city bikes it might make more sense. The Gerolsteiner rider, Ronnie Scholz, likes it, as does Hans-Michael Holzcer, the DS - he's a no-nonsense dude who's very finiscky and knowledgeable about gear, so if he says it works...it either does, or... he's whoring for a few extra gruppos for the team.

But even if it doesn't seem that practical, it's good to see attempts at tech and improvement - who knows where it will lead.

But I love my 10 speed Dura Ace, and don't think you could improve much on the shifting. Wait until SRAM, though - it looks good...

[thewalrus]

But I love my 10 speed Dura Ace, and don't think you could improve much on the shifting. Wait until SRAM, though - it looks good...

I think I will be happy with a cable-actuated SRAM group :D

The shifters are 90g lighter than Dura Ace... They're about the same weight as Record Carbon. You get the sexy X0 style rear derailleur too. The crank in the prototype group CSC is using is still badged as Truvativ, but this is pretty close to how the final group will look. There are some photos floating around on the net of Bjarne Riis riding his bike with "FORCE" printed on the carbon levers. Here it is on a Cervelo Soloist:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/phpBB2/files/sram01_800x600h_241.jpg

[sanrensho]

I saw it in the flesh about three weeks ago on Ronnie's bike.

Thanks for the report, Pete. Very interesting to read your comments.

One advantage I could see is greater long-term reliability from shifters by doing away with the cable actuation. It could be lighter, too. Did the Gerolsteiner folks give any indication of the comparative grouppo weights?

OTOH, the whole weight issue is negligible at the high end/pro level, since it is only becoming easier to build bikes under the UCI weight limit.

I'd be much more interested in seeing a Nexus 8 internal hub system with cable-free electronic shifting and cable-free disc brakes. Now that would be a commuter's dream (assuming the electronics hold up).

[pete@nsmb.com]

Thanks for the report, Pete. Very interesting to read your comments.

One advantage I could see is greater long-term reliability from shifters by doing away with the cable actuation. It could be lighter, too. Did the Gerolsteiner folks give any indication of the comparative grouppo weights?

OTOH, the whole weight issue is negligible at the high end/pro level, since it is only becoming easier to build bikes under the UCI weight limit.

I'd be much more interested in seeing a Nexus 8 internal hub system with cable-free electronic shifting and cable-free disc brakes. Now that would be a commuter's dream (assuming the electronics hold up).

Gerolsteiner said nothing - we were in a garage the mechanics were using while getting the bikes ready for the GP Chiasso which takes place in my neck of the woods (in fact, for the second year in a row the race went right down my street). I hoped to get pics this year but I left for Egypt on race day...plus it was rainy.

There was a guy there from Shimano Japan who was friendly enough but had nothing to say about the gruppo. So no, I have no idea about weight but concerning the pro peloton, yes, you're right - several teams are adding weight to bikes to make the limit the last few years.

Your cable-free commuter would be awesome, indeed. I think an electronic system would also be more useful in the dirt world where contaminated cables are a way bigger problem (not to mention torn cables).

[thewalrus]

I have heard that the whole electric group weighs about 100 grams more than regular dura ace 7800/7801. Weight is saved in the shifters, but gained in the battery and solenoids. Some parts in the prototype group are unchanged (crankarms, BB, rings).

It's not hard to build a bike to 14 pounds and still be strong, it just costs a lot of money... Witness in the last few years Jan Ulrich riding around on 3000 euro carbon-sports.de Lightweight wheels with "SHIMANO" painted on the side.

:D