Dual Air Shock Downhill Bike

[VERT]

A Company in New Zealand called 2Stage is making 2 dual air shock bikes, 1 downhill and 1 freeride. The Dual shock works by the 1st one activates and when it bottoms out the 2nd one activates. They say because of this they have very good pedaling efficiency.

For pics check Here for the Elite 9 (http://www.*************/modules.php?name=Coppermine&file=displayimage&album=lastup&cat=10259&pos=1)

and Here for the Zed 8 (http://www.*************/modules.php?name=Coppermine&file=displayimage&album=lastup&cat=10259&pos=0)

[SysCo.]

doesnt appeal to me.

[BrianPark]

Those bikes are too simple, they need more complex technology.

[*GiMpY_jR*]

hmm i wonder what the weight is on em
cool concept
(just tune one shock right?)

[VancouverIslguy]

so, after losing the weight of a coil shock they throw on ANOTHER air shock. that's freakin BRILLIANT!

[Fat Whacker]

My concern would be your first shock would be constantly bottoming out. Better chances of blowing up a shock IMO. Interesting concept though.

[redsdisease]

Cannondale's team DH bike used to be like. It makes it feel more progressive, but i can't imagine that it'd be worth it.

[Ninja]

Cannondale's team DH bike used to be like. It makes it feel more progressive, but i can't imagine that it'd be worth it.Yeah they scrap'd that design cause it was too hard to tune properly. Not to mention the weight, or extra pivots.

[Jeff M]

A Company in New Zealand called 2Stage is making 2 dual air shock bikes, 1 downhill and 1 freeride. The Dual shock works by the 1st one activates and when it bottoms out the 2nd one activates. They say because of this they have very good pedaling efficiency.

For pics check Here for the Elite 9

and Here for the Zed 8

Are you head of marketing?

[GeoffG]

Looks kind of heavy:S.

[freerider888]

Originally Posted by Jeff M
Are you head of marketing?

I was just thinking the exact same thing.

[Jake the Trog]

yeah..... ok.... two shocks to break!

[slang]

that floating brake on the first bike is in a wonderfully safe position

[eknomf]

They should turn it into a sharkfin to protect the rotors like on a 9.5... then the floater being there would actually be a good thing.

[Scarface]

interesting concept, as for the feel, i dont think we can comment on that until we actually ride the thing, but I have a feeling that if you were to bottom the whole system out, the rider might feel 2 stages of suspension compression and if the shock was to be set up wrong especially with that first shock bottoming out wouldnt you feel the rebound from the first shock kicking in but at the same time your still compressing? I think that would create some mixed feelings for the rider

[VERT]

My concern would be your first shock would be constantly bottoming out. Better chances of blowing up a shock IMO. Interesting concept though.

I think that is how it is supposed to work, the 1st shock bottoms out and when it does it activates the 2nd shock. I think its a pretty cool concept, would be interesting to know how much they weigh.

[Fat Whacker]

I think that is how it is supposed to work, the 1st shock bottoms out and when it does it activates the 2nd shock. I think its a pretty cool concept, would be interesting to know how much they weigh.

But think about what happens when you constantly bottom out a shock. Not good.

[BrianPark]

Well I'd assume one shock would be sprung soft, but ramp up hard, and the other would be sprung slightly harder, but more linear. Then you use the beginning of the soft one, then at some point the linear shock is activated, and then when it almost runs out, the very last bit is a nice ramp.

I'm just assuming though.

[Mitch1616]

i like hte chain guide idea i cant believe no one else has thought of that

[hard_core_biker]

i like foes' idea more, the HUGE shock with the two springs, one soft, other is harder. when the softer one bottoms out, the stiffer one activates...

[d_rider]

the devinci wilson has an air shock also

[VERT]

But think about what happens when you constantly bottom out a shock. Not good.

Maybe it doesn't quite bottom out, maybe it stops just before its about to bottom out before the next one kicks in, I see what you mean though

[PhilJ]

There was a Kestrel DH bike way back that used to have a dual shock option. They ditched that design also. Anyone remeber that?

[PegCityThrasher]

There was a Kestrel DH bike way back that used to have a dual shock option. They ditched that design also. Anyone remeber that?

I do. It doubled as an XC bike, you would juts take off the first shock and replace it with a linkage piece.

[eastcoast-mcneil]

unnessesary

[VERT]

I do. It doubled as an XC bike, you would juts take off the first shock and replace it with a linkage piece.

doubled as a xc bike? what was the point of that?

[PegCityThrasher]

doubled as a xc bike? what was the point of that?
I dunno, but here's the bike. The Kestrel Rubicon. I dug through 20+ back issues to produce these scans, so here they are:

http://photos.nsmb.com/files/2/0/6/2/9/rubicon1.jpg

http://photos.nsmb.com/files/2/0/6/2/9/rubicon2.jpg

I've seen another pic where the link could be replaced with another shock:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v644/jor_el/rubi3.jpg

Some googling revealed this:

http://www.kestrel-usa.com/support/docs/images/mtn-rubiconsx.jpg

http://www.kestrel-usa.com/support/docs/rubiconsx.php

Hope that makes everybody happy.

[Chunk]

I remember that prticular ^ ^ issue was one one of the first ones i ever saw when i FIRST started geting into mountain biking on a "serious" level. I specificaly remember seeing that bike too. I thought it was crazy pimp. My jaw dropped when i saw it. Its funny looking back on it.

[Chunk]

HD:
http://www.feedthehabit.com/gear_reviews/bikes/balfa2004/2STEP_dh_250.jpg

FR:
(this aslo happens to be my rig, :) i couldnt help it)
http://photos.nsmb.com/files/2/6/1/9/3/DSC00149good.JPG

2stage:
http://twostage.virtuozzo.co.nz/cmsImages/Zed8_1.jpg

[VERT]

I dunno, but here's the bike. The Kestrel Rubicon. I dug through 20+ back issues to produce these scans, so here they are:

http://photos.nsmb.com/files/2/0/6/2/9/rubicon1.jpg

http://photos.nsmb.com/files/2/0/6/2/9/rubicon2.jpg

I've seen another pic where the link could be replaced with another shock:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v644/jor_el/rubi3.jpg

Some googling revealed this:

http://www.kestrel-usa.com/support/docs/images/mtn-rubiconsx.jpg

http://www.kestrel-usa.com/support/docs/rubiconsx.php

Hope that makes everybody happy.


holey crap thats a bit overboard for a xc bike, looks pretty old skool too

[VERT]

just saw this (http://www.*************/modules.php?name=Coppermine&file=displayimage&album=15&cat=0&pos=9) some crazy custom linkage that some dude has made that uses 2 shocks

[Danny K]

i like foes' idea more, the HUGE shock with the two springs, one soft, other is harder. when the softer one bottoms out, the stiffer one activates...

Not how it works... that would mean you would consistently be getting coil bind which is very bad. Its just a dual rate spring.

[PegCityThrasher]

Fairly horrifying.

http://www.*************/images/albums/userpics/13126/normal_bike%203.jpg

The original C-dale Gemini race bikes were dual shock, hence the name. Kind of hard to see what's going on, but there are 2 shocks.

http://www.totalbike.com/interbike/2001/images/canondale_down.jpg

http://www.totalbike.com/interbike/2001/images/canondale_downclose.jpg

And that mad scientist Alex Morgan who built crazy carbon DH race frames in his garage had a dual shock bike called the 2x4 I think. His company was Buffalo Composite Designs, but I think it's defunct now.

[VERT]

DH Carbon with dual shock, now that is crazy!!

[PegCityThrasher]

Not to mention that he built them in his garage. Yeah, here ya go:

http://bcdracing.com/frames/2x4/2x41.jpg

9" of travel way back in 1998!
http://bcdracing.com/history/2x4/2x4old.jpg

http://bcdracing.com/frames/frameindex.html

Pretty clever bloke if you ask me.

[Air Supplier]

No me gusta!

[::Liam::]

the cannondale geminis had 2 shocks... producing 16 square inchs of travel....

ie instead of the rear arc moving in a straight line it could go in an 8inch vertival and 2inch vorizontal plane which was curved into a snight arc...

1 coil shock controlled the 8inch vertical suspension and 1 air shock controlled another link which allowed the wheel to move horizontally as well...

[VERT]

Not to mention that he built them in his garage. Yeah, here ya go:

http://bcdracing.com/frames/2x4/2x41.jpg

9" of travel way back in 1998!
http://bcdracing.com/history/2x4/2x4old.jpg

http://bcdracing.com/frames/frameindex.html

Pretty clever bloke if you ask me.

Those bikes have the mad linkage, very cool though

[bullit_kid]

article in decline on alex morgan

[PegCityThrasher]

Which issue? I think I read it.

[Tama]

just saw this (http://www.*************/modules.php?name=Coppermine&file=displayimage&album=15&cat=0&pos=9) some crazy custom linkage that some dude has made that uses 2 shocks

This link works: http://www.*************/photos-view-7636-15-normal-0.html

I'm still trying to work out if it's genius or insanity :???:

[xy9ine]

His company was Buffalo Composite Designs, but I think it's defunct now.
bcd is still around, though his production is extremely limited. he's currently working on a "cogbox" design - ie, an inboard gearbox of some type. alex is a fast racer as well - got 3rd at the masters world championships @ sunpeaks last year.

the 2x4 IS pretty freaky:
http://bcdracing.com/frames/phils/frameeeee.jpg

[Ninja]

I think I just puked in my mouth alittle.

[VERT]

I think I just puked in my mouth alittle.

I can relate to that :D

[bighitter]

http://www.2stagebikes.com/pdf/2stage-review.pdf

[builttoride]

good rear bighitter!

interesting design... although now I think I'm coming up with an idea of achieving the same thing... with one shock... hmmmm.

I love the idea of having an axel area rather than path... but think it would mean you might not get a reliable stable feel from the bike.


I still prefer my design to any others in the world... but I like seeing new solutions!

as far as I am concerned there is no such thing as a perfect design... it depends on individual preferance and riding style, each to their own I say!

[VERT]

as far as I am concerned there is no such thing as a perfect design... it depends on individual preferance and riding style, each to their own I say!


true with everything bikes

[Hack On Wheels]

I still prefer my design to any others in the world... but I like seeing new solutions!

So any chance we could get a peek at your design? Or will we have to wait?

[builttoride]

So any chance we could get a peek at your design? Or will we have to wait?

I'm afraid it will have to wait... although keep an eye out for me on a prototype in whistler this summer....;)

[::Liam::]

I love the idea of having an axel area rather than path... !


its possible cannondale have the patent to this becasue of there gemini (origenal one from maybe 5-6 years ago)

[Hack On Wheels]

builttoride, I'll keep my eyes peeled. Hopefully I'll see you up there.

[VERT]

Anyone got a picture of the Gemini with the dual shocks?

[PegCityThrasher]

This page: http://www.totalbike.com/web/interbike/2001/cannondale.html has some big pics but they don't show up with the tags.
And here's some cmall crappy shots...

[IMG]http://www.mbaction.com/archive/cann3.jpg

http://www.mbaction.com/archive/CANN2.jpg

[VERT]

That Gemini looks damb cool (mind you I have always liked them) is that a coil with an air shock?

[mattymc]

sexy bike:woot:

[VERT]

nm

[frmstreetrider]

i like the look of hte frames
i wonder how they ride