Huck Wagon

[Sprocket]

A new huck wagon website is up and running, with loads of new stuff for 2006. Whistler shuttle look pretty sweet!
www.huckwagon.com

[RiotGirl587]

40 bucks is a alot of money...for a ride to whistler...

[synchro]

A new huck wagon website is up and running, with loads of new stuff for 2006. Whistler shuttle look pretty sweet!
www.huckwagon.com

just a thought, but you should edit this line as it's quite insulting.

from the huckwagon website on the seymour page:

"High gas prices, maintenance, gst and NSMBA contribution all take away a nice chunk! "

[nouseforaname]

just a thought, but you should edit this line as it's quite insulting.

from the huckwagon website on the seymour page:

"High gas prices, maintenance, gst and NSMBA contribution all take away a nice chunk! "

jesus, is Tim still running it?

[mattdh]

just a thought, but you should edit this line as it's quite insulting.

from the huckwagon website on the seymour page:

"High gas prices, maintenance, gst and NSMBA contribution all take away a nice chunk! "

Yup, that's pretty lame that they state the NSMBA contribution in a negative way.

Maybe they have to raise the price because they actually plan to give the NSMBA any money this year.

[Uncle Duke]

$10/run up seymour..pretty steep.

[TheGiggler]

$10/run up seymour..pretty steep.


yeah but so is his gas/insurance and i've seen some days where his loads are pretty small, but yeah, others were he's pretty full.

i'd actually heard he was giving up on Seymour and just doing the Whis runs ...

the NSMBA line is pretty funny ... gee, what nerve of the folks who maintain the trails that provide his income to ask for a little funding ... :lol:

[Universe]

just a thought, but you should edit this line as it's quite insulting.

from the huckwagon website on the seymour page:

"High gas prices, maintenance, gst and NSMBA contribution all take away a nice chunk! "

Stupidity can also cost money.

[Rat]

I like the Vedder unimog pricing when he was still around 5 bucks for a ride in the back 7 and you he'll get you high in the cab.

Also. "Fuck I need a beer anyone who has a cold beer can get a ride up for a cold one"

Damn I love Chilliwack.

[Uncle Duke]

the NSMBA line is pretty funny ... gee, what nerve of the folks who maintain the trails that provide his income to ask for a little funding ... :lol:


yea thats a funny one there..

def cant be cheap to operate the service..hard to say how many times I will pop down a tenner for a ride up.

[Rat]

yea thats a funny one there..

def cant be cheap to operate the service..hard to say how many times I will pop down a tenner for a ride up.


No need when we have the new Team Shuttlewhore super burban.

Im haveing the rack welded on now. 8 - 9 Bikes and riders, basicly its shit hot.

[Uncle Duke]

BANG! just took it up a notch!

[Lady Gravity]

hmm they're taking trips out to the woodlot, and showing people platinum. granted it's a hard hike to the top, however, i hope the woodlot builders are aware of the possible increased traffic to their trails. maybe a contribution to the fvmba is in order?

[WoodlotBuilders]

hmm they're taking trips out to the woodlot, and showing people platinum. granted it's a hard hike to the top, however, i hope the woodlot builders are aware of the possible increased traffic to their trails. maybe a contribution to the fvmba is in order?
Thanks to a couple of folks on this board, we are aware of HuckWagon's plans for bringing people out to the Woodlot. The HuckWagon made a few trips out to the 'lot last year and FVMBA information was left on the windshield so I'm comfortable that they're aware about our group and how to contact us.

To date, we haven't heard anything from them, but before anyone starts ragging on the guys or speculating on their intentions, I've contacted them privately to discuss the issue. I'll keep you posted on how the whole thing plays out. Thanks again to everyone who's keeping an eye out.

Cory H.
FVMBA, Area Rep -- Maple Ridge // Woodlot

W: www.fvmba.com (http://www.fvmba.com)

[Uncle Duke]

Thanks to a couple of folks on this board, we are aware of HuckWagon's plans for bringing people out to the Woodlot. The HuckWagon made a few trips out to the 'lot last year and FVMBA information was left on the windshield so I'm comfortable that they're aware about our group and how to contact us.

To date, we haven't heard anything from them, but before anyone starts ragging on the guys or speculating on their intentions, I've contacted them privately to discuss the issue. I'll keep you posted on how the whole thing plays out. Thanks again to everyone who's keeping an eye out.

Cory H.
FVMBA, Area Rep -- Maple Ridge // Woodlot

W: www.fvmba.com (http://www.fvmba.com)


prof. response, good job dude.

[Kootenay Hack]

jesus, is Tim still running it?


Martin, who owns Extreme Sports Camps (ESC), recently bought Huckwagon from Tim. Tim is now sippin' on margaritas on the beach somewhere enjoying the high life on a vacation.

Let's hope Huckwagon can continue to support the NSMBA, the FVMBA, the community and trails with their increased trafffic to trails like Platinum.

[ESC]

Hey guys and thanks for the feedback. We will need a lot of constructive stuff like this from you to make things work. As it was, the shuttle was not a viable undertaking and the choice is to either to shut it down or improve what can be improved.

Concerning the first issue- there was a bit of a misunderstanding with NSMBA last year-granted. I was not very involved with Huck Wagon and I knew very little about it. Tim did the right and worked things out with NSMBA and the record is straight. We will be working with them abit closer to make things flow better.

No worries- I will change the wording on that paragraph- last thing I want to do is to offend anyone... However I want to make sure everyone know that we're not getting rich here. Closing the shop is not an option in 2006 because I beleive we could make it work and also because I already have 2 rediculously pimped out vans, but 2007 might be the end if there is not enough interest.

You are right in saying that we should look at options how we can help each other, for the most part I was not even aware of the FVMBA (http://www.fvmba.com/). I'm sure we can work things out and support those guys in any way we can. Anybody volunteers for a free ride to Woodlot for their trail day in the future? Send me an email and we'll make things happen! We will post more info when we get it.

Oh btw- we also go to Squamish every once in a while ;) - can anyone give me the info on guys who work on those trails?

If you have any comments- go right ahead and email me info@escbc.com and I promise a speedy reply.

cheers
martin

[WoodlotBuilders]

I just spoke with Martin and can say that we (the FVMBA (http://www.fvmba.com)) will do what we can to keep things with the HuckWagon on the up-and-up.

Nothing more to say at this point, other than I'm encouraged by our initial conversation and look forward to working with him in the future.

[Rat]

Im sure there are other tour groups go to the woodlot, what do they do?

[WoodlotBuilders]

Im sure there are other tour groups go to the woodlot, what do they do?
Most of them actually make contributions to the FVMBA // area builders. As I mentioned, I had a positive conversation with Martin, and I'd like to leave it at that. No need for mud slinging or fire stoking since it does nothing except piss people off.

Cory

[Uncle Duke]

seems like a good starting point..excellent, and Im curious to see how this develops.

[synchro]

No worries- I will change the wording on that paragraph- last thing I want to do is to offend anyone

thanks martin, i appreciate it.

[CraigH]

Oh btw- we also go to Squamish every once in a while ;) - can anyone give me the info on guys who work on those trails?

SORCA would be a good place to start.

http://www.sorca.ca/

[ESC]

[QUOTE=CraigH]SORCA would be a good place to start.

thanks! Will get in touch with them.
m

[Sunday Rider]

Glad to see the huckwagon will be starting earlier at 8AM. Hope you get the turnout to make everything viable.

[ratherberiding]

i think the huckwagon will become more popular than ever if we can rely it.

[Wayne P]

I think the prices are appropriate for what is offered because a) its bloody expensive to operate, and b) its a business.

Whether or not the people who are using the service find it afforable is another thing.

Martin, your other thread went down the shitter because it 'seemed' that your purpose behind making the thread was to take shots at the competition while subtily proping up yours. If that was not your angle then we owe you an apology.

[BRT]

Martin drop me an email(or PM) if you really want to up to get up to speed on Squamish. Cheers.

[seand]

You are right in saying that we should look at options how we can help each other, for the most part I was not even aware of the FVMBA (http://www.fvmba.com/). I'm sure we can work things out and support those guys in any way we can. Anybody volunteers for a free ride to Woodlot for their trail day in the future? Send me an email and we'll make things happen! We will post more info when we get it.

Oh btw- we also go to Squamish every once in a while ;) - can anyone give me the info on guys who work on those trails?

If you have any comments- go right ahead and email me info@escbc.com and I promise a speedy reply.

cheers
martin


while I think it is about time that the huckwagon starts looking helping those that keep its lifeline (the trails it takes riders to), it seems almost futile.

The last few seasons, I watched, at various locations, lots of riders get taken up in the huckwagon vans and dumped off at trailheads. On the various trails that those who use the services provided by the huckwagon, I have run into many of the builders. I have asked them about what the huckwagon has donated to them and I usually got a laugh. Alrighty then.


To me, it would make far more sense to arrange something with all the local advocacy groups BEFORE even embarking on your business again to solidify a reputable relationship between you and the builders. Obviously, if there is no group, it is much harder to get intouch with the individual builders...but the places that the huckwagon goes happen to have such groups - nsmba, fvmba, sorca, worca, etc etc etc...

Why not cease operations until such a relationship is established? This would not only put you on solid ground with the groups/builders, but also in the eyes of various onlookers and potential clients...Maybe work out a certain amount of money the groups would deem acceptable as a donation for what you are bringing to their trails (the number of riders is what I am referring to here), as well as a promisary amount of time in trailwork. I know, if I saw a horde of riders coming down a trail of mine that was due to the huckwagon, I would expect ATLEAST an acceptable amount of trailwork put in by your business.

If you can't afford the time/money/resources to respectfully give back to those who provide the trails, maybe you shouldn't be offering your services in those locations until it is managable...maybe start with JUST the FVMBA or NSMBA and only service the riding areas under their umbrella until you can work out how to work with the other groups...

Remember, your business lives/dies by the backbreaking efforts of those who have no ability to break even on their time/money spent making the trails a place they are proud of. Without those builders and those trails, there is no huckwagon.

[Sunday Rider]

I doubt the Huckwagon is a big money-maker so $1 for every rider seems pretty generous...imagine if EVERY rider down gave $1 to NSMBA?

[seand]

I doubt the Huckwagon is a big money-maker so $1 for every rider seems pretty generous...imagine if EVERY rider down gave $1 to NSMBA?


I am more than certain that if they were serious about giving back to the various groups, and sat down with a rep from each one, they would be happy with just donating time to helping with the upkeep of the trails....

I like the idea of giving those otherwise unable to ride, the ability to get to the places and enjoy the woods...so I hope the new ownership steps up in the right way and makes all parties smile :)

[ESC]

Martin drop me an email(or PM) if you really want to up to get up to speed on Squamish. Cheers.

BRT-- I tried to find your email but the site (nsmb) tells me you requested not to be emailed... You're welcome to email me at info@escbc.com


cheers

[ESC]

while I think it is about time that the huckwagon starts looking helping those that keep its lifeline (the trails it takes riders to), it seems almost futile.

The last few seasons, I watched, at various locations, lots of riders get taken up in the huckwagon vans and dumped off at trailheads. On the various trails that those who use the services provided by the huckwagon, I have run into many of the builders. I have asked them about what the huckwagon has donated to them and I usually got a laugh. Alrighty then.


Hey thanks for your feedback! I'm glad that you recognize our efforts to work with everyone involved and the intentions are good in all our dealings. Keep in mind- I personally have very little to do with the past, Tim was running most of the trips and tours. Many of you know that he is an awesome and chill guy and whatever he does he always has good intentions, but his attention to details was a bit off and hence the misunderstandings...

I want to start fresh this year, I cleared things up with NSMBA, I'm working with the Valley guys and I just contacted the Squamish people (thanks for the link btw). There is a need for that and I understand that very well. Not only can we give back to the builders for the groups we bring but we have access to the network of sponsors and I'd love to be an advocate for the trail builders and bring more SERIOUS help and resources to the table...As long as we get your support and the support of everyone involved, we can do it...

I'm happy with my conversation with Craig from FVMBA, he explained a few things to me that I was not aware of and we will work together for sure.

thanks for bringing up all these issues. I can't fix what I'm not aware of; always feel free to contact me personally with ideas or feedback!

M

info@escbc.com

[seand]

martin,

it sounds like you know whats up, what needs to be done, and that a plan is in the works to get it all lined up.

I hope it all works as planned and the huckwagon is seen as a great thing for this upcoming season :)

cheers!
-sean

[stubz]

However I want to make sure everyone know that we're not getting rich here..................., but 2007 might be the end if there is not enough interest.



i can understand that its not a big money making thing but why did you raise the whistler shutte 10$ from last season, i though you would be able to make the most buisness with that than any other shuttles, wouldnt you have more intrest if the price was lower?.....not complaining but just giving you some feedback

[ESC]

i can understand that its not a big money making thing but why did you raise the whistler shutte 10$ from last season, i though you would be able to make the most buisness with that than any other shuttles.....not complaining but im just wondering

If you think about it its only $5 increase for the Whistler shuttle. Most people know they want to go a couple of days ahead of the trip. Book it online 48hrs in advance (we'll bend the rules a bit to say cut-off 8pm 2 days prior) and you're only paying $40. There have been people bailing on the morning of the trip and I remember Tim having to drive to Whislter with 3 or 4 people...

Also this year Huck Wagon has to pay gst on all sales so that the gst is already included in the $40...($37.38 without tax)

I hope this helps a bit to cope with the increase ;)

M

[jeebus]

its a good deal if you have a seasons pass but if you dont thats alot of money cause its gonna be like 45 for lift ticket 20 for food and 45 for huck wagon thats like 110$ in a day

[heckler]

If you wanna play, you gotta pay....


Or pedal up.

[couch@nsmb.com]

its a good deal if you have a seasons pass but if you dont thats alot of money cause its gonna be like 45 for lift ticket 20 for food and 45 for huck wagon thats like 110$ in a day

Nobody said WHistler is cheap - actually it is bloody expensive no matter how you cut it.

Couch

[Chief]

yeah whistler is a expensive place. they are busy the whole summer people are willing to pay the current prices. i bet they could raise the prices 20$ and still see an increase compared to last year.

you can pay to take the chair and ride kick ass trails or you can ride up the shore and ride kick ass trails. its up to you

[lets ride]

Take your own lunch and save the $20.

[Tom]

It would easily cost me $40 in gas to drive to Whistler and back. And I hate driving on that road. It doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.

[jeebus]

40$ in gas jees what do you drive a tank

[Chief]

i dunno 40 for gas for the drive sounds like a pretty realistic number.....not everyone drives a toyota prius

[mettlehead]

one thing that all commercial operators need to be aware of is that the new ministry of sports, tourism and arts (motsa) and the district of squamish (dos) are starting to take a active roles in mountain bike tourism in b.c. and squamish.

what this means on a provincial level has yet to be determined. the new recreation officer position for motsa will be filled in early march. their mandate at the very least will be to ensure that all commercial operators on crown land are "registered" with motsa and have valid insurance for operating their business.

from the dos stand point they are currently having their by-law department ensuring that any company doing tours within dos boundries have a current business license. also and although it is a ways off they are looking at some sort of fee structure depending on the number of trips that take place within dos boundries.

many of the trails within the dos boundries are on private property. these land owners have over the years been very generous with allowing mountain biking on their lands with little to no concern. one of them however now that he is starting to take a more active role in what goes on on his land is starting to become concered with the fact that their is commercial activity taking place on his land without his knowing about it. as a matter of fact it pisses him off and rightly so. you may want to contact the local landowners as well to get their permission to operate on their land.

[WoodlotBuilders]

one thing that all commercial operators need to be aware of is that the new ministry of sports, tourism and arts (motsa) and the district of squamish (dos) are starting to take a active roles in mountain bike tourism in b.c. and squamish.

Great post! The business license thing is something that I totally forgot about. Most municipalities require that businesses who do any sort of work within the District's boundaries are registered with a valid business license...

[Uncle Duke]

Remember, your business lives/dies by the backbreaking efforts of those who have no ability to break even on their time/money spent making the trails a place they are proud of. Without those builders and those trails, there is no huckwagon.


this is an important message for all those thinking of running groups(tours or instructional) down any of the trail networks.. be it squamish,woodlot or even here on the coast.

[Big Dipper]

take take take take take....

Doesn't matter if it is business or the typical rider...95% of those on the Shore are on the take and the SHore is the worse for it.

Now government is getting involved. Once they have their take, there won't be much left.



PS - with Tim gone does that mean I have to pay now? :(

[Kootenay Hack]

this is an important message for all those thinking of running groups(tours or instructional) down any of the trail networks.. be it squamish,woodlot or even here on the coast.

This is so true...

If we can get everyone contributing in some way, we can have a great future that works for everyone. Whether you bring to the table; people, trail work, awareness, ideas, communication, volunteers, finances, or media coverage, it's all advocacy and the the trail groups and associations who are out there need ALL the support they can. The work they do on the trails is incredible, not to mention gruelling and quite often taken for granted.

I think some props are in order these days for the work that has been taking place around the Shore and BC. The work these days is unbelievable!

Thank you to all the trail builders and trail workers. I think we may need to tell their stories sometime soon. There are some real unsung heroes out there!

DB

[Uncle Duke]

Thank you to all the trail builders and trail workers. I think we may need to tell their stories sometime soon. There are some real unsung heroes out there!

DB

telling their stories is one thing, i am more talking about fianancial compensation to trail builders from businesses that either run tours or educational groups down trails for their own private profit..

here on the sunshine coast I have built a number of trails from scratch..no touching up old skidders roads, actual from scratch.

not that their are such groups but..the thought of private groups ,running for profit events, on my trails with out talking to me is very annoying.

[Kootenay Hack]

telling their stories is one thing, i am more talking about fianancial compensation to trail builders from businesses that either run tours or educational groups down trails for their own private profit..

here on the sunshine coast I have built a number of trails from scratch..no touching up old skidders roads, actual from scratch.

not that their are such groups but..the thought of private groups ,running for profit events, on my trails with out talking to me is very annoying.


Which is exactly why these stories need to be explored. If we can create some better awareness for this kind of effort and hard work, maybe we can develop a system that works to compensate the trail builders and associations etc who've devoted their livelihood to the cause.

Many companies out there contribute to their communities in different ways but I think this raises a great topic that should be explored creatively.

DB

[Uncle Duke]

...but I think this raises a great topic that should be explored creatively.

DB


I agree.

[Gary Harder]

Support those who support you.
I keep hearing lots of talking,but not a lot of walking.
Any smart business reinvests into their business,long term thinking gets things done. Bike shuttle services,bike shops,local bike companies,riders.
You all have a vested interest to make this sport grow,better trails and more access. Ask in your group who belongs to their local trail advocacy group??
If ten percent of the riders in your area supported either nsmb/fvmba or??
locally the trails are in great shape,yes subdivisions are eating trails and will continue, but the amount of work is ramping up,and quality is slowly getting better. I repeat "support those who support you".
One barbed wire fence can put a end to a whole network of trails.
politically in the valley we face FVRD/GVRD/MOF/CITY/WOODLOT OWNERS/ lack of support from riders.
I know all our directors are working full on like myself,yet our paid membership numbers lag,pity.
Were committed, what we need is others to show it as well.
g

[WoodlotBuilders]

For sure Gary.

As much as many of the riders out there want mountain biking to remain a grassroots, underground type of activity, other pressures -- urbanization, increasing popularity of the sport, complaints from other user groups, etc. -- threaten access to the areas where we all ride and the sport is now moving into a critical spot, in terms of public perception.

And as much as I build trails for my own satisfaction, it is a bit of a downer seeing parking areas filled every weekend while membership numbers with local advocacy organizations remaining stagnant. In Maple Ridge, we're starting to see a few area businesses sign on in recognition of the work builders are doing on the trails but, imo, the numbers are too few and too far between. It's also a bit frustrating when it seems as though many of the for-profit, bike-related businesses out there aren't being proactive in building relationships with local trail groups -- I personally think it's a bit lazy for businesses to sit back and wait for overworked volunteers to contact them. Do your due diligence and be proactive and you'll get way more brownie points in the long run.

Personally, I'm tapped out re. the amount of time I can devote to volunteer work. In this past week, I've spent over 10 hours on the phone or in front of the computer dealing with access issues and talking about trail quality... I don't mind pulling my weight but, c'mon, I have a full time job, a family to hang out with, and time to spend riding and trailbuilding on top of those hours...

And in all honesty, the paper-shuffling work gives me the least amount of satisfaction out of the things that I do; also, I 'inherited' the position when no one else wanted to do it. The worst part? I'm probably not alone out there.

Basically, people need to buck up and join the FVMBA, the NSMBA, SORCA, WORCA, whatever and support these groups if riders want to see the level of access we currently have carry on into the future. And if I'm preaching to the converted, then it's time for the 'converted' to start getting others to sign on. Remember that membership numbers can be used as leverage / examples of influence when dealing with Ministry of Forests, local governments, and land managers -- low numbers translates directly into a lesser degree of clout...

Interesting to see how this thread has been hijacked...

ch

[HIBuLlitT]

Maybe make maps and charge, or talk to lbs' and get a donation from them.
Lbs' could tack on a $1.00 charge on "trail" items. They are just as responsible
for any trafffic on trails in thier area, probably more so than the Huckwagon
shuttle type operations. How many riders can they take a day...20 maybe
(to each spot). How many bike riders are on each trail per day? And how many
of those riders bought their bike from a lbs?

I know I would be more than happy to pay an extra $1.00 for my bike or tires
or any other item over $30.00.

As far as $45.00 to ride to whislter, put things in perspective. Gas ain't cheap,
and it's getting worse every year/week. For most people, a trip to whislter has
a plane flight and hotel room on top of the food and lift ticket.

I pay more than $10.00 to go for a shuttle ride over here, not to mention the
time of going up and down to pick up the truck(s) left at the top.

The shuttle services would do good if they gave "refunds" for every trail day
that they shuttle you to. For instance, you go on a trail day and get a coupon
for 25% off next shuttle to Whistler. Has anyone tried to get food places to
"sponsor" trail days, like provide food? How about pros giving out free clinics
afterward to anyone that shows up.

I'm just throwing out ideas, bad good and ugly...

[Highrider]

Biking is an expensive sport! The more inticement to get out and work on trail days, then be offered a discount on a shuttle is a great idea! It is a way to get people out and to save some cash! We would all win!!!

[ESC]

For sure Gary.


Basically, people need to buck up and join the FVMBA, the NSMBA, SORCA, WORCA, whatever and support these groups if riders want to see the level of access we currently have carry on into the future.

ch

ESC and HW have actually adopted a trail on Fromme- its Bobsled, and we've been maintaining it for the past 6 years so we know the feeling in general. I pitched an idea last year to have color-coded stickers available through the local organizations (nsmba, etc..) which you would simply stick on your fork...Easy to spot yet small and easily removable (no damage to the bike)
Something like a bright orange, yellow, etc... that you buy from your local bike store for say $10, $20, $30 /season. Kind of an honor system, a voluntary pass to the trails. I think most riders would buy it and thus support the organization. Then there would be a $50 or $100 sticker for a business... When the Huck Wagon goes to Squamish we would stop by the bike shop, I would make everyone buy a sticker and everyone on the hill would know that we support the trails. Maybe a discount rate to one-time foreign riders or a group rate???

so that squamish would have a different sticker color than north shore and so on....But then you would have to put signage up on trails encouraging people to do this kind of stuff. I think this was the main problem with the lack of comunication. There should be some kind of sign near a trail with say email address of the builders, maybe a laminated cards, etc so that people can contribute in an easier way...Have bike shops sponsor the signage and printing materials (after all they will get more trafic)

[seand]

if each area had a different sticker, and you were a rider that liked to ride all over the place with frequency, you would have a fork that looked like an item from a grocery store with paid stickers all over it...no thanks :)

as far as signage goes....if you wander into ANY of the trails on seymour, you have to be completely blind to not notice the laminated signage asking for help with piling rocks with contact information at the bottom...

at the trailheads of various woodlot trails, there is an email address to contact them....

I think the burdon should fall on the laps of those, like the huckwagon, when it comes to contact...the builders/orgs (as you know as an adopter of bobsled) have enough on their plates to worry about without having to bother with ensuring that anyone who wants to use their network has a means to contact them. It is NO secret, nor should it be, to anyone who uses these trails, which groups are responsible for them. If you don't know, there is surely someone who will gladly give you a method of contact to reach who you need...everyone knows the local shops are a great place to start this hunt...

sorry for the here-and-there response but my mind is moooosh after my last meeting at work.

[Silk]

ESC and HW have actually adopted a trail on Fromme- its Bobsled, and we've been maintaining it for the past 6 years so we know the feeling in general. I pitched an idea last year to have color-coded stickers available through the local organizations (nsmba, etc..) which you would simply stick on your fork...Easy to spot yet small and easily removable (no damage to the bike)
Something like a bright orange, yellow, etc... that you buy from your local bike store for say $10, $20, $30 /season. Kind of an honor system, a voluntary pass to the trails. I think most riders would buy it and thus support the organization. Then there would be a $50 or $100 sticker for a business... When the Huck Wagon goes to Squamish we would stop by the bike shop, I would make everyone buy a sticker and everyone on the hill would know that we support the trails. Maybe a discount rate to one-time foreign riders or a group rate???

so that squamish would have a different sticker color than north shore and so on....But then you would have to put signage up on trails encouraging people to do this kind of stuff. I think this was the main problem with the lack of comunication. There should be some kind of sign near a trail with say email address of the builders, maybe a laminated cards, etc so that people can contribute in an easier way...Have bike shops sponsor the signage and printing materials (after all they will get more trafic)

be carefull with the words "trail pass" the second you start charging even an voluntary one you could open us all up to some nasty lawsuit from some tourist who breaks his neck on a local trail.

I dont think anyone here wants to test the occupiers liability act yet :)

[Robot]

I dont think anyone here wants to test the occupiers liability act yet :)

Nope, and speaking of the liability act, I have a meeting with the Ministry of Forests in about 20 minutes re. the biking trails at the Woodlot.

I pitched an idea last year to have color-coded stickers available through the local organizations (nsmba, etc..) which you would simply stick on your fork...Easy to spot yet small and easily removable (no damage to the bike)

So when people ask why we don't do this or that little thing, it's because many of the people out there are doing things that actually keep the trails open to everybody, and, basically, they do it for free. We do what we can and we prioritize and, usually, we do it behind the scenes -- if your personal issue isn't on our radar, there's probably a reason for it. In the end, suggestions on a public forum are merely lip service. Real actions are the things that provide real results.

As for signage, there were signs up at most trailheads at the Woodlot. I write were because they've been torn down and thrown in the bush by people who just don't have a clue.

[ESC]

be carefull with the words "trail pass" the second you start charging even an voluntary one you could open us all up to some nasty lawsuit from some tourist who breaks his neck on a local trail.

I dont think anyone here wants to test the occupiers liability act yet :)


this is an interesting point. It makes me wonder how does the NSMBA deal with our direct $1 donation from each rider... It could be looked at as a fee of some sort...But on the other hand Sharon has access to some good lawyers and apparently thats not an issue...

[Tom]

Because the NSMBA is a registered not-for-profit organization.

[seand]

this is an interesting point. It makes me wonder how does the NSMBA deal with our direct $1 donation from each rider... It could be looked at as a fee of some sort...But on the other hand Sharon has access to some good lawyers and apparently thats not an issue...


:nono:

What good could a post like that bring? It is not a hidden fact that any/all donations from people....

lets look in their site, shall we?


Where your money goes:
Your generous donation goes towards materials for tools and trail maintenance, mailouts, stationary for notices, forms, etc. As well as insurance for our Directors and Officers and third party liability for the land owners and sponsors of our events.

A receipt can be provided by request for donations of greater then $20.00.

People participating in an NSMBA event that involves riding (NS Ripper, Twoonie Races), and NOT Trail Maintenance are required to pay $27.00 for Cycling BC Associate member insurance. More information on insurance can be found here. This insurance also covers you for events from other Cycling BC Insured Club Events such as SORCA or WORCA twoonies.


How on earth could you even surmize a similarity between...you know what, this has just become not worth it. that comment is a cheap shot.

i can see certain groups asking you to please not bring riders to their trails with comments like these.

seriously...

[HIBuLlitT]

I feel for you guys, I had a guy start a MX tour on our one Mtb trail.
The guy doing it got shut down by some of our more "physical" riders.

I would like to hear a response from ESC as soon as he takes his foot
out of his mouth...

[bansheeair]

I am going to bounce back and forth between rider and as someone who profits from the trails so bare with me. I do agree that there are some companies out there that do not put back into the trails that we profit from, but I think that as riders some of the responsibility lies with us as well. Whenever I travel to a different country or new area to ride I make a point of trying to get in contact with builders via email or whatever and find out if there are companies that actively put back. I will use that company or I will try to hire the builder to show me around for cash. My partner and myself, for our company, are both past and present members/executives of our local advocacy group, FVMBA, as well as we regularly assist the builders of two Fraser Valley Mountains, as well, all the shops we associate with contribute money to the FVMBA and local trailbuilders. I just think that as a 'responsible' rider some of the responsiblity lies with us as well to do our research and not just take for granted what it says on websites as they are mostly used for advertising our wares.

Just my 2 cents.

Greg
A mtb coaching/guiding company that DOES put back.

[ESC]

:nono:

What good could a post like that bring? It is not a hidden fact that any/all donations from people....

lets look in their site, shall we?



How on earth could you even surmize a similarity between...you know what, this has just become not worth it. that comment is a cheap shot.

i can see certain groups asking you to please not bring riders to their trails with comments like these.

seriously...

No- are YOU serious? Do you ever bother to read a thread a couple of posts back? I'm trying to come up with ideas to make things work for everyone, I offer to volunteer my time to put a better system in place, I just spoke with NSMBA and there are plenty of things that can be done. In one of the earlier posts someone cautioned me about suggesting the word "fees" so I ASKED how do you think NSMBA deals with accepting our $1 per rider without exposing anyone to liability issues. Legitimate question because I don't know. You abviously found something wrong with the question.

I'm satisfied that the official trail builders and local organizations look forward to working with us, and that most people on this board appreciate the effort we're making and will be making in the future to preserve the trails and make them available to everyone.

What I can't understand is that people like you always interpret everything in a negative way and look for hidden agenda when there is none.

If anyone has a suggestion or an idea, please contact me directly. I took note of some cool ideas posted a few posts back- like creating incentives for people that come to the trail days. We would easily throw in a Huck Card or a Pass of 10 to be used in a trail day draw... Ideas like this one are constructive and I love to see more of them, and less "take your foot out of your mouth" comments.

cheers

[seand]

*EDITED*

tired of arguing...

content removed.


best of luck to you and your venture.

[HIBuLlitT]

What I can't understand is that people like you always interpret everything in a negative way and look for hidden agenda when there is none.

If anyone has a suggestion or an idea, please contact me directly. I took note of some cool ideas posted a few posts back- like creating incentives for people that come to the trail days. We would easily throw in a Huck Card or a Pass of 10 to be used in a trail day draw... Ideas like this one are constructive and I love to see more of them, and less "take your foot out of your mouth" comments.

cheers

Now who is jumping to conclusions? I feel you did "put your foot in your
mouth". Not by "asking how NSMBA can get away w/ taking a $1 per rider
fee", but when you inferred that NSMBA is above the law because "...on
the other hand Sharon has access to some good lawyers and apparently
thats not an issue..."

If you don't see how THAT can be misconstrued, then [migh regret saying
this but...]...then there's something else you need to pull out.

Thank you for also taking note of my suggestion to create [in your words]
incentives for people that come to trail days..or [my words] refunds...

My last post was not intended to be an attack on you or your company,
as you'll also note I defended your pricing. I just felt and feel that you did
in fact "put your foot in your mouth" with your NSMBA/Sharon lawyer
reference. Maybe look at it again without the cloudiness that being
defensive brings. I don't think anyone feels you are doing anything nefarious,
just not thinking about the politics of the situation before you make a
statement like that.

Peace

[ESC]

Now who is jumping to conclusions? I feel you did "put your foot in your
mouth". Not by "asking how NSMBA can get away w/ taking a $1 per rider
fee", but when you inferred that NSMBA is above the law because "...on
the other hand Sharon has access to some good lawyers and apparently
thats not an issue..."

Peace

Translation of the last sentence above: Sharon has access to good lawyers who I'm sure have been consulted and who see no legal problems and issues with earlier mentioned set-up.

I give you this: if you try REALLY HARD, my sentece could be interpreted as you interperted it...Fair enough, I should have been more clear. But I'd also appreciate if you gave me a bit more credit, than think that I would say something arrogant or derogative about organization that we sponsor... For the most part I didn't even know what the uproar was about lol.

[HIBuLlitT]

^no harm no foul...

[ESC]

*EDITED*

tired of arguing...

content removed.


best of luck to you and your venture.

Thanks and I'm off this board too... IT seems that everytime I say something, I get misudnerstood so I'm gonna keep my mouth shut ;)

If anyone would like to get in touch with me- you know where to find me (info@escbc.com) or through a from on huckwagon.com

best of luck to all and I hope to see you around! (we start Seymour on April 15)

M