View Full Version : Cypress Mountain - Old Growth Forest VS Mountain Biking?
Sharon
02-21-2006, 10:05 AM
It doesn't have to be.
Two years ago the District of West Vancouver commissioned a study to assess an area that could support Mountain Biking on Cypress mountain.
One area they came up with was part of the Old Growth Triangle ( where Blind skier, Reaper used to be ).
This then brought up concerns that if this area were designated a Mountain Bike Park, riders would start riding into the Old Growth Grove that sits adjacent to the park.
There have been many meetings regarding this area. They are well attended by Streamkeepers, Friends of Cypress and the Wetland group ( some of you are familiar with people who are involved with this group since they are also involved with protecting Mountain View Park ).
The meetings have not been well attended by Mountain Bikers.
The District Staff would like to see mountain biking on Cypress. But unless some mountain bikers come to these meetings, they may feel that mountain bikers do not want to ride on Cypress.
If you want to see mountain biking continue on Cypress, I would recommend you attend this meeting:
http://www.westvancouver.net/article.asp?c=853&a=4121
Old Growth Park
Final Open House:
Tuesday, February 28, 2006
5:00 pm - 9:00 pm, Presentation at 7:00 pm
Seniors' Activity Centre, Marine Room
695 21st Street, corner Marine and 21st in West Vancouver.
Your opportunity to review and provide comment on the draft Old
Growth Park Strategy for Protection.
Draft Observations & Options Summary - distributed at the January
10, 2006 Old Growth Park Open House
Since the Old Growth Park was established, the best protection strategy has been to leave the Park alone. However, with mounting use in the vicinity, now is the best time to formulate a Strategy for Protection. Recognizing this, Council and staff are eager to ensure that conservation of old growth features within the Park remains paramount - especially in the light of a proposal for a mountain bike park nearby.
do u have to be a NV loc to have any real say in whats going on ???
or can u attend and have your input taken seriously if u live elsewere???
thewwkayaker
02-21-2006, 04:44 PM
Cypress is in West Van so NV res.wouldn't have any more pull than anywhere else.
Sharon
02-21-2006, 04:58 PM
The more mountain bikers that show up to support mountain biking the better.
The last meeting 2 of the 3 mountain bikers were from North Van. The rest of the 40 people were non- mountain bikers some of whom were not north van residents.
When push comes to shove West Van residents need to be there pushing. Its up to them.
sorry i didnt mean NVlocs as in them speicfically i meant do u have to be a residetn of teh actual area in question...
but thx for the info nonetheless...
ratherberiding
02-21-2006, 07:50 PM
is their food?
KING-OF E-VILLE
02-22-2006, 12:00 AM
is their food?
LOL :rocker:
Big Dipper
02-22-2006, 12:21 PM
is their food?
ha ha, Not last time and I actually complained about it!:pizza:
Sharon, is there anyway that NSMBA or another group can put forward a position in writing about this issue? the discussions seemed to be random and although i felt i made progress at the last meeting in persuading the old growth people that the mtb proposal is ZERO threat to the old growth park, i have a feeling that something in writing might be helpful.
for what it's worth, here is a letter that i almost sent to a complete a-hole that i met at the meeting. i'm not naming any names and nor did i send this letter because i decided there is no point. however, it may be of use in formulating some kind of points or written position.
Alex
I write regarding our brief meeting at the Senior’s Activity Centre Open House for the Old Growth Park on January 10, 2006.
I forgive you for the hostility and disrespect that you showed me on January 10, 2006 when we spoke briefly regarding the proposed mountain bike park in the area outside the Old Growth Park. In my view, you do a disservice to the things you believe in to dismiss anyone who might possibly disagree with your personal views on an issue. I use the word “possibly” intentionally because, as I explained to you, I was new to the issues and had not yet formed an opinion on any of them. Though you would have denied it to me, the fact is that I had just as much right as you to be present at the Open House, to learn about the proposals with an open mind and to form my own opinions.
It is unfortunate that you did not remain at the meeting to hear the entire presentation from the consultants or to engage in the very meaningful dialogue that ensued. I had a number of very respectful and constructive discussions with Friends of Cypress. We all agreed that mountain biking has posed no threat and had no impact whatsoever in the Old Growth Park in 15 years (which is roughly the length of time that the sport has! been around on Cypress).
We also agreed that the proposal to put a mountain bike park at the south end of Lot 5 (outside of the Old Growth Park) should pose no threat to the Old Growth Park. This park would be even further from the Old Growth Park than the existing ‘informal’ mountain bike trails located at the southern tip of the triangle and that run along the downslope border of the Old Growth Park. As the consultants explained, those existing trails have had no impact on the Old Growth Park. There is simply no evidence that those trails, which have been used for at least 15 years, have caused any harm or that mountain bikers have veered from those trails into other areas. This impressive record speaks for itself.
I can tell you from personal experience that part of the reason that the existing trails off Lot 5 have had no impact in 15 years is because they are hardly ridden. Those trails are relatively flat and for most of the year are extremely wet and muddy. There are numerous sections of trail that are not rideable at all. That is likely the same reason why no mountain bikers have ever ridden, let alone constructed a trail, through upper part of the Old Growth Park. The terrain in the Old Growth Park is similarly relatively flat and very wet. Apart from wishing to avoid mountain biking in the Old Growth Park for environmental reasons, this is simply not an attractive area for mountain bikers to ride. It defies logic and a proven record of nearly 20 years of activity in the area to suggest that mountain bikers would ride out of their way from a designated bike area located to the south of Lot 5, uphill and across flat, wet and unrideable terrain and across a planned buffer of vegetation, in order to intentionally ride in a protected old growth area.
The protection of the Old Growth Park is a personal issue of importance to anyone who cares about wilderness and the environment, myself included. My family fought passionately to protect the Old Growth Park years ago with the Friends of Cypress. It is of the utmost importance to me that the Old Growth Park is protected.
It is also important to me that I and future generations be able to enjoy the forests on Cypress. My limited understanding of the proposed mountain bike park off Lot 5 is that it is a controlled environment intended to be used by families and kids. In particular, the park would be used for high school mountain bike teams in West Vancouver to train for races. These teams currently have no facilities in their own municipality at which to train and must travel to other jurisdictions to train and race.
I grew up in West Vancouver and have been hiking, skiing and mountain biking in those forests for nearly 25 years. I recognize that mountain biking has an impact on the environment and that mountain biking trails must be done right in order to earn a place in our forests. To that end, I have been a constant supporter of the North Shore Mountain Bike Association (NSMBA), whose mission includes promoting “respect for the environment through cooperative trail maintenance and education”. The “Seven Commandments” of the NSMBA are as follows:
1. Ride on open trails only.
2. Respect other trail users.
3. Respect the environment.
4. Always stay on the trail.
5. Ride don't slide.
6. Pack it out.
7. Know your limits.
I am frankly surprised at the blanket dismissive attitude you appear to direct toward mountain bikers and that you directed toward me. I hope that what I have written here might change your views regarding the possibility of a bike area off Lot 5. We are all entitled to our opinion on this and related matters, but we are also all entitled to respect, even if we disagree. I require that you show me that basic courtesy in future.
Sharon
02-23-2006, 10:52 AM
Hi Alex,
good letter!
We are working with district staff so they know our position.
We also presented a slide show before council in 2003 during the Upper Lands OCP presentations before council.
For those who haven't seen it:
http://www.nsmba.bc.ca/cms/pdf/Presentation_to_WV_Council2003.pdf
Hi Alex,
good letter!
We are working with district staff so they know our position.
We also presented a slide show before council in 2003 during the Upper Lands OCP presentations before council.
For those who haven't seen it:
http://www.nsmba.bc.ca/cms/pdf/Presentation_to_WV_Council2003.pdf
thanks. please feel free to copy any or all of it if it's helpful. same for everyone else.
That was very well written and thought out, Axl. Good job!
jace mace
02-24-2006, 02:00 PM
As is typically done, the friends will arrive in the Benz. Ha ha just being jejune and facitious...as this is not the issue.
If they are worried about a transmorphism of the old-growth area because of it's lateral/oblique vicinity to the proposed mountain bike park then we must have (recent) historic evindence to assuage and/or demonstrate the fallacy of the speculation; which when truly analyzed (of their proposals) are not that difficult (in all aspects) for a reversion occurance.
This I can demonstrate by saying a similiar situation has already occured in West Van. with similiar ideas initially governing it/them.
As I have stated earlier, much to the chagrin of some anarchist/ environmemtalists I know, I was the impetus for the Trans-Canada trail travelling through the Nelson Creek/ canyon watershed up to Eagle/Dick Lake. I had been looking at this area at the Eagle Harbour end of the Seview Trail back in the mid/late eighties, and would often explore it on foot and by bike.
I looked at a map after a few times of going there with my alternative school SWAP (now ACCESS) to count fish, and found out that it was called Nelson Canyon Park. So I looked for trails below Highway 1's Nelson Canyon bridge and found one that was very grown over, and connected to the old highway bridge (with a nicely built rock cairn-type structure at the big bend by the old bridge that is unfortunately no longer there.) Anyway, I used to take the steep beginning section that was through the unlooked gate and over the train tracks by the train tunnel entrance/exit; but it was too steep for most, and of very loose soil.
Well low and behold somebody made and ingenious section that went from the Seview trail just before the gate where the trail heads done to Cranley, and cut up and over the train tunnel on very firm ground to where the bench is now. As I said, very well done. The Trans Canada Trail Society must have seen that and just drooled, because they sent in a crew and put in stairs (boo) and a bridge and the bench and laid down a fine, firm gravel/limestone trail lining up to the old bridge. However, enough rambling cut to...
...Back in the mid/late 90's I went to the Outdoor Adventure Show at BC Place and told the (then, not sure about now) head of the Trans-Canada Trail Society, (a Quebec fellow) of the possibility of getting the trail up to Skyline Trail on Hollyburn Ridge. I told him there was an old telegraph trail behind the water tower that ended up an old logging-access road that circumvented towards the water tower above Cypress Park Estates and then could link up via the Sub-Station next to Cypress Falls park.
Well, not only did they use this trail through Nelson Canyon and up to that access road; but they went right up to the water tower just below Eagle/Dick Lake, (which has a few old hidden signs with Watershed Keep Out, and rust and pellet holes of course.) They did this because they say they have plans to build a suspension bridge accross Cypress Creek to connect to Skyline Trail (it would probably come out some near 5th Horseman...but they have done nothing yet...also, notwithstanding the work that has been done for another project up there by excavators etc.;for the new intake pipe and mini-hydro poroject that West Van. built so they could sell excess power to the GVRD and gain revenue, which is another issue al together, building a hydro project in a water resevoir...which in all hilarity the first year or so didn't work because the water was so low in that drought/ fire summer a few years ago. Sorry for rambling again.
So, I propose that if a trail can be built through a watershed with all its repercutions and reactions from denizens (tainted/ contaminated water etc.), yet so far prove that nothing has occured within a fairly long trial (relatively speaking) then I propose that a trail can be built in location of this section of old growth forest without the speculation(s) of portentous occurances arrising. (Even a trial could be made with an "introductory" trail [as a future template] to gleen knowledge of the enivironmental occurances.)
A couple of final things: I know CBC Jeremy is correlated to the Streamkeepers, and am almost 100% positive he belongs to the group, (as he does care about streams, and grew up around the West Bay area I think...ask him about his hiking/hitching experience back when it was party and transform your mind time, and see what happens; he loves to be a raconteur...so maybe he could talk to this group. Also the mayor, Pam is reported to be more "alligned" with biking than Ron Wood was: And finally, and some would say most impotantly, a while ago I wrote that the district had photocopied a pile of imput forms on the design and idea etc. of the West Van. Bike Park and put them at the Gleneagles Rec. Centre for people to fill out. I rarely noticed any in the drop box. I was going to take a pile and send them to NSMBA to mail out or try to give them to bikers (on the trail, shuttle/trailhead etc.), but I never did (forgive me for being indolent.) But we as a group are the catylist/impetus for this. Enough said, I will be there and lock up my hardtail outside so all know who I am and why I am there.
jace mace
02-24-2006, 02:01 PM
As is typically done, the friends will arrive in the Benz. Ha ha just being jejune and facitious...as this is not the issue.
If they are worried about a transmorphism of the old-growth area because of it's lateral/oblique vicinity to the proposed mountain bike park then we must have (recent) historic evindence to assuage and/or demonstrate the fallacy of the speculation; which when truly analyzed (of their proposals) are not that difficult (in all aspects) for a reversion occurance.
This I can demonstrate by saying a similiar situation has already occured in West Van., with similiar ideas initially governing it/them.
As I have stated earlier, much to the chagrin of some anarchist/ environmemtalists I know, I was the impetus for the Trans-Canada trail travelling through the Nelson Creek/ canyon watershed up to Eagle/Dick Lake. I had been looking at this area at the Eagle Harbour end of the Seview Trail back in the mid/late eighties, and would often explore it on foot and by bike.
I looked at a map after a few times of going there with my alternative school SWAP (now ACCESS) to count fish, and found out that it was called Nelson Canyon Park. So I looked for trails below Highway 1's Nelson Canyon bridge and found one that was very grown over, and connected to the old highway bridge (with a nicely built rock cairn-type structure at the big bend by the old bridge that is unfortunately no longer there.) Anyway, I used to take the steep beginning section that was through the unlooked gate and over the train tracks by the train tunnel entrance/exit; but it was too steep for most, and of very loose soil. I cleared it up to the old highway, and would descend it on my old Brodie Sovereign.
Well low and behold somebody made and ingenious section that went from the Seview trail just before the gate where the trail heads done to Cranley Drive, and cut up and over the train tunnel on very firm ground to where the bench is now. As I said, very well done. The Trans Canada Trail Society must have seen that and just drooled, because they sent in a crew and put in stairs (boo) and a bridge and the bench and laid down a fine, firm gravel/limestone trail lining up to the old highway bridge. However, enough rambling cut to...
...Back in the mid/late 90's I went to the Outdoor Adventure Show at BC Place and told the (then, not sure about now) head of the Trans-Canada Trail Society, (a Quebec fellow) of the possibility of how to get the trail up to Skyline Trail on Hollyburn Ridge, which was what they wanted to do. I told him there was an old telegraph trail behind the (upper) water tower in Nelson Canyon that ended up on an old logging-access road that circumvented towards the water tower above Cypress Park Estates and then could link up via the Sub-Station next to Cypress Falls park.
Well, not only did they use this trail through Nelson Canyon and up to that access road; but they went right up to the water tower just below Eagle/Dick Lake, (which has a few old hidden signs with Watershed Keep Out, and rust and pellet holes of course.) They did this because they say they have plans to build a suspension bridge accross Cypress Creek to connect to Skyline Trail (it would probably come out some near 5th Horseman...but they have done nothing yet...also, notwithstanding the work that has been done for another project up there by excavators etc.;for the new intake pipe and mini-hydro poroject that West Van. built so they could sell excess power to the GVRD and gain revenue, which is another issue al together, building a hydro project in a water resevoir...which in all hilarity the first year or so didn't work because the water was so low in that drought/ fire summer a few years ago. Sorry for rambling again.
So, I propose that if a trail can be built through a watershed with all its repercutions and reactions from denizens (tainted/ contaminated water etc.), yet so far prove that nothing has occured within a fairly long trial (relatively speaking) then I propose that a trail can be built in location of this section of old growth forest without the speculation(s) of portentous occurances arrising. (Even a trial could be made with an "introductory" trail [as a future template] to gleen knowledge of the enivironmental occurances.)
A couple of final things: I know CBC Jeremy is correlated to the Streamkeepers, and am almost 100% positive he belongs to the group, (as he does care about streams, and grew up around the West Bay area I think...ask him about his hiking/hitching experience back when it was party and transform your mind time, and see what happens; he loves to be a raconteur...so maybe he could talk to this group. Also the mayor, Pam is reported to be more "alligned" with biking than Ron Wood was: And finally, and some would say most importantly, a while ago I wrote that the district had photocopied a pile of imput forms on the design and idea etc. of the West Van. Bike Park and put them at the Gleneagles Rec. Centre for people to fill out. I rarely noticed any in the drop box. I was going to take a pile and send them to NSMBA to mail out or try to give them to bikers (on the trail, shuttle/trailhead etc.), but I never did (forgive me for being indolent.) But we as a group are the catylist/impetus for this. Enough said, I will be there and lock up my hardtail outside so all know who I am and why I am there.
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