freeride fading to the background?

[TylerDurden]

I was reading the 06 Steed Team roster (see below), and am starting to think that "Decline" is indeed a good title for a DH/FR publication these days.....

Everyone knows Steed has sent a zillion FR&DH rigs out the door over the years, but lately I think you'd have to agree the focus is away from all things hucking and shuttle. The roster below is another signpost that we're seeing a change in the mtb ridership (the peeps who buy stuff from bike shops).

Yes, Crankworkx is bigger than ever, but the TransRockies also sold out in record time. Similarly, the Test sold out fast than ever this year.

So while we've watched local XC scene take the back seat in 1999-2005 to freeride, are we now witnessing another changing of the guard? The shops have to gauge interest really well in their bookings, so I count them as the 'canary in the mine' for the state of things.

So is marathon, backcountry (no heli), and xc cycling the new "freeride". Everyone and their dog has ridden a 40lb sofa down A-line or Ned's by now, so are we seeing a shift-in-the-masses who've 'been there done that" and are looking for a new mtb experience? Are the DH&FR set heading towards the eccentricity and obscurity reserved for big mountain, cliff huck ski comp's? Sure, freestyle tailwhipping on 26"s will continue in the press but what will the dollar-spending rider do when he gets out on his bike?


"2006 Steed Cycles Elite Team
Courtesy Jonathan Gormick

Steed Cycles is pleased to announce their Elite squad for 2006. The Steed Cycles Elite Team prides itself on allowing riders to compete in multiple disciplines and '06 promises to be an epic season for the team. On the road/XC/cyclocross side of things are Kim Steed, Jonathan Gormick, Scott McGregor, Jason Leber, Scott Malone and Mike Judge. Enduro/adventure racers are Carey Sather and Dean Irvine while the DH and 4X racing will be left to Shawn Pettersen."

[seand]

like all tides, things change. I know I am going to get more pedal time in this season than the last few. I want to spend less time in a truck and more time in the saddle. Will that mean I ride the "freeride" trails less? Nope...just means I plan to actually ride to them.

I think the need for big sofas is going away because the smaller bikes are finally becoming strong enough to take what only the big bikes could handle. I also think people are focusing more on style and flow of lines over big silly moves.

[Bryce]

I think the need for big sofas is going away because the smaller bikes are finally becoming strong enough to take what only the big bikes could handle. .

good point. To add to that, freeriders' skills have improved to the point that they can do a lot more with less of a bike.

And maybe people who got into the sport a few years ago because of the obvious appeal of shredding downhills have broadened (deepened?) their perspective and are now interested in more diverse riding. And I can think of a few who have gone back to XC after a few harsh injuries on the big bike.

[the Master Plan Dan]

I could not agree more... I ride a 2004 Shore, while it is a big bike, I am swaping out my Super T Pro for a far more nimble 66RC. Yeah hucking large stuff is cool, but in the end the only thing that separates good riders from the great is Style. You can tell by the bikes that now fly off the shelves... 6 and 6's are the next thing, a bike that you can throw down the likes of A-line and neds (as discussed above) but can still haul over the mountains and 'ride' up the shore or any other given mountain/hill/knoll/curb.

[KING-OF E-VILLE]

I think the need for big sofas is going away because the smaller bikes are finally becoming strong enough to take what only the big bikes could handle.

This is exactly whats happening, and what I hope to buy in to this season. the new platform pedal tech and the new 32-36 lbs all mountain rides are killer. I ride a 44 lbs VPS 1 with all the strongest parts I could hang off it, and while I love that think when its pointed downhill, it is a pig to do anything else on. I have suffered with it across the Baden Powel too many times, and really miss the nible feel of a more XC based bike. the new tech of todays bikes brings the best of the DH/Freeride Rig and meshes it with the lighter XC feel that makes rippen through the woods so fun.

I am a bit nervous about what to buy this season, cause I am hard on bikes, and don't want to buy something too light, too heavy or un-proven.

I'm 6'-2" 195 lbs, any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Trini-dad72]

I must agree too. My big bike has served me welll, but in the intrest of actually being able to ride more terrain, and ride more often without the need of shuttles, and stuff, I am really thinking hard on officially selling it and buying a 6x6 bike too. After seeing trail/AM bikes improve into what they are now, they have become far more appealing. As my life heads towards school and a carreer the desire to "go big" has lessend, and has been replaced with the desire to just ride. I can do everything in the shed, and SFU on a 6x6 bike just as well as with the Devinci. I'll ride safer, and smarter too as I cannot afford to crash.

[M_Dub]

slopestyle is the only real original mountain bike event, and crank worx and monster and all those are gonna be the future of this sport

small travel fullies 6x6, 7x7s at tops will start to dominate the sales
all slopestyle is, is north shore with more innovative stunts mixed with skateparks and dirt jumps... it brings everyones favorite type of riding to one spot

[seand]

well, i made the change for this upcoming season...

i went from this beast (55lbs when all said/done):
http://gallery.autisticpig.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_monster_chap.jpg

to this (sorry no built photos yet) which is 33.65 lbs all built up:
http://gallery.autisticpig.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_CC%20Photos%20002.jpg

I loved my chap...but as stated above, anything except shuttle runs and bikepark riding, and it got bad. baden powell killed me, as did the push up eagle and the ride up woodlot...a very welcomed change.

[BrianPark]

As my life heads towards school and a carreer the desire to "go big" has lessend, and has been replaced with the desire to just ride. I can do everything in the shed, and SFU on a 6x6 bike just as well as with the Devinci. I'll ride safer, and smarter too as I cannot afford to crash.
Also, it's not like you can't go big on a 6x6 bike.

[R.kelly]

it might have more to do with kim.. since he rides xc and all his friends do and his shop sells xc bikes and road stuff. i dont think he really cares about freridish shit anymore and most of his team riders have moved onto independent stuff or other shops.

[APT]

to this (sorry no built photos yet) which is 33.65 lbs all built up:
http://gallery.autisticpig.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_CC%20Photos%20002.jpg



Excellent choice!! I'm currently riding its big brother (VPX) and it is sitting at 41lbs. Not bad for an 8 x 8 bike and it pedals amazingly well. With a few more changes in parts, it can easily go down to 38-39lbs.

[Wayne P]

it might have more to do with kim.. since he rides xc and all his friends do and his shop sells xc bikes and road stuff. i dont think he really cares about freridish shit anymore and most of his team riders have moved onto independent stuff or other shops.

Well yes and no... Kim's interests are XC and road personally moreso than freeride or DH, but much of his business is still FR/DH. He wouldn't be in business if he wasn't on top of that market, in which he does quite well I might add.

Why has his DH team all but disappeared? There's a bunch of us that have moved on or moved away. Simple as that. He's had some riders there since he opened about 8-9 years ago, and there's only so long someone will continue racing (they move on). Unfortunately, there's not a large pool of sponsor worthy DH racers who are busting down the door, if you know what I mean. If there was some DH racers who could fill the gap, all ya got to do is ask.

Plus, having a small but quality team that can not only put in results, but more importantly sell the product you are riding, is crucial to its success. Bryon Enns is there and even though he's an old man at 40 years old, he's more marketable than mostly anyone I know. This is part of the reason why SRAM/Rock Shox still ponies up large amount of product for the team.

Moved on or quite racing:
- Me, Jason Winters, Adriano, Sandy Close, and several others within a year.

[Danny K]

slopestyle is the only real original mountain bike event, and crank worx and monster and all those are gonna be the future of this sport

small travel fullies 6x6, 7x7s at tops will start to dominate the sales
all slopestyle is, is north shore with more innovative stunts mixed with skateparks and dirt jumps... it brings everyones favorite type of riding to one spot

race dh you canucks

[R.kelly]

kyle mclaws ... jamie wakeling.. scott pilecki (not that he EVER rode !). yah and it seems most of his buisness comes from non-big bikers so he probably wants to push that as the local market is pretty flooded. especially when he runs a much smaller operation than the competition which limits what he can offer riders

[Wayne P]

kyle mclaws ... jamie wakeling.. scott pilecki (not that he EVER rode !). yah and it seems most of his buisness comes from non-big bikers so he probably wants to push that as the local market is pretty flooded. especially when he runs a much smaller operation than the competition which limits what he can offer riders

:lol: Not naming names, but you'd be surprised at which shops are doing well and which ones are scraping by on borrowed time. Let's just say that just because a shop is small doesn't mean that they are not doing well (downsizing = more profit). Case in point, Simon's Bike Shop is numero uno by a long shot.

I will say this, Kim gives more to his riders via product and assistance than most shops do, big or small. So don't judge a book by its cover.;)

[R.kelly]

hey i was once on the steed cycles race team ! not that i ever raced

[mtbgal]

we have to remember that the freeriding peice of the broad biking spectrum is small and has been a flash in the pan compared to some of the other biking mediums. it grabbed a lot of attention, and will hold it's place, but some attention will definitely fall back to the origins.

I say be multi-sport and enjoy as much of the biking styles that you can afford...or that your body can handle!

[connor]

slopestyle is the only real original mountain bike event, and crank worx and monster and all those are gonna be the future of this sport

I think this might be a bit of a stretch. Slopestyle is more an original Snowboard event, that got copied to Skiing, and now MTB. It is probably the most exciting format we've seen on snow or bikes though.

[Wayne P]

More time/effort in = more from your sponsor.

I co-managed that team with Kimbo and did a lot of pro-bono work and I was rewarded quite nicely.

[redsdisease]

Of course freeriding isn't dying out, it is far more popular now than ever. Just because one shop has a smaller DH team than they used to doesn't mean that the whole sport is finished.

[mtbgal]

i don't think that Steed is the only shop that has cut back on the dh teams...
Giant? Luna Chicks? Specialized? Oakley?

[Universe]

:lol: Not naming names, but you'd be surprised at which shops are doing well and which ones are scraping by on borrowed time. Let's just say that just because a shop is small doesn't mean that they are not doing well (downsizing = more profit). Case in point, Simon's Bike Shop is numero uno by a long shot.



Gee, who expanded recently.

:dead:

[whistler110]

I don't see where downsizing a DH team has anything to do with the health of Freeriding. I think DH racing is suffering, as most racing is, unfortunate but it's not like people are leaving the sport.

I don't think Freeriding is declining, look at how many Bike Parks are starting up and doing well, look at the growth of Whistler. The preffered rig keeps changing but they're still riding.

If someone takes a cyclo cross bike down Whistler is that Freeriding?

[Revscene]

freeriding will always be there, bikes are getting smaller and lighter, but thats just a progression of technology as well, whats the point of a 55 pound rig if you can rip on one 10 pounds lighter and just as strong now?

[biopace]

i don't think that Steed is the only shop that has cut back on the dh teams...
Giant? Luna Chicks? Specialized? Oakley?
I've heard from several shops that sponsored freeride riders don't equal sales.

Nobody sees Wade ride a sick line and credits the bike. Bikes (arguably to some) weren't the determining factor at the Rampage. Just because a freerider rides a certain bike doesn't mean it will make you ride better or faster or smoother. Which leaves a disconnect between buyer and advertiser.

Racing is different. XC riders will notice tiny things that pros do, because the tiniest thing can make a big difference. If no Trek XC pros are riding their XC Fuel bikes, that hurts sales. But if tonnes of Giant pros are riding and winning on NRS bikes, that tells XC'ers that that bike is the one to buy, making the sponsorship of XC racers worthwhile.

[HIBuLlitT]

I love my 8X7 and plan on a demo 8 in the future. I think that BECAUSE of
technology you can now have more inches and better pedaling. I know my
dhx lets me out pedal the guys riding the older 5ths, I just made the switch
from a monster to a 888 not to do more xc but to be able to do more "freeriding".

A friend of mine "gets into" xc every once in a while. EVERY time he does he
comes back saying the same thing, "The problem w/ XC is that when you get
to the fun stuff (DH) you're on the worng bike". 6X6 might be fine for someone
with 20 y/o knees but at 40, 8" is sweet. There will come a time I can't huck
but till then...giv'er

More people in my area are buying dh/fr 8x8 rigs. Some people just like abusing
themselves though. Ya you can ride a ht at whistler but you will pay later.
I think that as tech gets better with better pedaling you'll see 6 and 7 inch
xc rigs.

IMHO

[mattdh]

I've got a 7X7 ('04 Diablo and a Junior T) and I love it. I don't care what the trend is I will always ride a bike that suits my riding style. I have been on the Shore for years and I am not even close to growing tired of it. For me, exercise is just an added bonus of riding, I don't care how I get to the top of a trail.

[Wayne P]

i don't think that Steed is the only shop that has cut back on the dh teams...


Kim hasn't cut back, there's just slim pickin's to replace the riders that left. Kim would gladly hook up the right people if they asked and showed genuine interest.

[HIBuLlitT]

^ I think he's trying to tell you fast riders out there something...
Wayne maybe say it again a few more times...haha

[Wayne P]

Hey, I'll help anyone get to Kim if I know they're legit.

[Mic]

Err..has "freeriding" something to do with the type of bike you are riding/preferring???

[BrianPark]

I've heard from several shops that sponsored freeride riders don't equal sales.
That being said, Specialized is producing 2348972308972340983240983407934 SX Trails this year, and I'd say the reason there is such a demand for them is seeing lots of big riders on them.

[Universe]

That being said, Specialized is producing 2348972308972340983240983407934 SX Trails this year, and I'd say the reason there is such a demand for them is seeing lots of big riders on them.

..and they are a quality bike.

[Oldfart]

Many times a shop sponsoring a race team is more headache than it's worth. So some rider wins a local race. He get's on the podium and a bunch of other riders already sponsored by their local shop cheer. It doesn't put much money in a shops pocket. When I worked in a shop I used to see the supported riders abuse their priveleges. Friday night I need a wheel built for the race tommorow types, the I am a racer I should get stuff free types. IF you are lucky enough to obtain assistance ALWAYS think about what YOU can do for the person assisting you, not what can I get from the shop. The shop does not have to sponsor anyone.

On freeride dying? Don't think so. Changing? Maybe. I think the pendulam might be swinging towards bikes that are not dogs to get up the hill under your own steam. Interesting though, I haven't really changed my ride style in the esense that I tend to remain within a comfort bubble, but the trails have changed significantly such that to remain within my personal comfort level of difficulty means I walk or get more suspension. I bought a VPFree last summer and I really ride it a lot like an XC bike, albeit a lot slower on the ups. But I used to find Neds awful rough and not a lot of fun on my Blur. Most of the trails on Fromme were similar. I will never be a high skinny big huck rider, but I really like going fast down trails like Ned's.

I know XC racing lost numbers when DH grew. As the number of races shrunk the participant levels dropped even further. Personaly if one wants to compete, I think DH and XC are far better than freeride comps. No judging. Pure time and nothing else.

[wa90]

That's a very good point. I can't really imagine relatively newbie riders rocking up to an open freeride contest and just giving it; whereas they could for something like DH or XC.

But then freeride isn't really about the contests ... wasn't that the point? I dunno any more, I still like riding my bike whatever we decide to call it.

[Oldfart]

But then freeride isn't really about the contests ... wasn't that the point? I dunno any more, I still like riding my bike whatever we decide to call it.

Struth! Oxymoronic ain't it. But that is human nature. We are competitive. Just about every pastime turns into a competition. Even riding with buddies. "Look what I can do. Bet you can't!" Or the sandbagging we have all done to unknowing friends which makes us look like superstar riders.

[Wayne P]

Sponsoring a racer, especially here, is not about getting customers directly into shops as a result of a racer getting on the podium. The main reasons to help out riders with sponsorship is to sell an image on behalf of the shop, to get volunteers to help for special events, clinics, or to simply wear the shop's jerseys when out riding.

Some shops don't see how racing/competition can be beneficial to their shop in any way, that's fine. My money goes to the ones who see the importance in setting goals and competing.

[Luudwig]

I say be multi-sport and enjoy as much of the biking styles that you can afford...or that your body can handle!

I could not agree more!!
I started in XC over ten years ago and have never abandoned it even when I got into Freeride/DH.
Our group has a motto: "Full Spectrum Riders". We make sure that we maintain skills in ALL aspects of riding. Last year I added the 24 hour race to the arsenal. This year I am seriously considering the solo class in that race (probably the ultimate test). BTW I believe a "full spectrum rider" needs at least 2 bikes in his/her quiver (i admit it gets expensive but its worth the sacrifice).

[Luudwig]

[QUOTE=biopace]

Nobody sees Wade ride a sick line and credits the bike. Bikes (arguably to some) weren't the determining factor at the Rampage. Just because a freerider rides a certain bike doesn't mean it will make you ride better or faster or smoother. Which leaves a disconnect between buyer and advertiser.

QUOTE]

another point that I totally agree with.
I believe THE key aspect is the skill of the person. When I still skied (had to give it up because I like biking better) I could blow away, on my ghetto gear, any posers on the latest expensive equipment. I believe its no different on a bike. In fact I have seen it on the Shore where really talented riders on their simple hardtails were schooling folks on fancy suspension bikes.

[trout]

What does it matter if freeriding is popular or not? Will your enjoyment of it diminish if it's not in Outdoor Magazine as one of the top ten coolest sports?

[thewalrus]

So while we've watched local XC scene take the back seat in 1999-2005 to freeride, are we now witnessing another changing of the guard? The shops have to gauge interest really well in their bookings, so I count them as the 'canary in the mine' for the state of things.

So is marathon, backcountry (no heli), and xc cycling the new "freeride". Everyone and their dog has ridden a 40lb sofa down A-line or Ned's by now, so are we seeing a shift-in-the-masses who've 'been there done that" and are looking for a new mtb experience?

I've seen more than a few posts from people who own 40-45 pound sofas now buying or building nice 5"/6" trailbikes under 33 pounds. Giant Reign 1/2, Scott Ransom, Fisher Fat Possum, Intense 6.6, etc. Lots of 145mm bikes with Nixons.

the reign 1 stock comes in at 29.5 pounds...

[redsdisease]

BTW I believe a "full spectrum rider" needs at least 2 bikes in his/her quiver (i admit it gets expensive but its worth the sacrifice).
That is not true. I ride XC, Downhill, dirtjumps, street, trials and even do some drops on my bike. With a really well thought out bike you can do anything. Saying that you need two bikes to be a "full spectrum rider" is totally ridiculous.

[Chuck D. Railer]

That being said, Specialized is producing 2348972308972340983240983407934 SX Trails this year, and I'd say the reason there is such a demand for them is seeing lots of big riders on them.

...and all of them without a granny ring
what kind of an enduro is this?!?! for bike park (not you brian, the one with the lifts) and shuttle?

lame IMHO

[Luudwig]

That is not true. I ride XC, Downhill, dirtjumps, street, trials and even do some drops on my bike. With a really well thought out bike you can do anything. Saying that you need two bikes to be a "full spectrum rider" is totally ridiculous.

Hey you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.
Perhaps in Portland you can get away with having only one "do all" bike but here in BC (where the REAL riding is IMHO) its much more difficult without having to make major compromises (which I am not willing to do ). I believe in bringing the "right tools" to the task and not be limited in any way (like having to pass up a 20 foot drop on the Shore because my "do all" bike is going to implode on impact).
Cheers

[Tom]

I was flipping through the MBA buyer's guide at the grocery store (I know...but it was the only bike mag in the rack), and they didn't have any freeride bikes. They had these "black diamond bikes" though. :lol: At the top of the article they said that most people shouldn't even buy them, that they should stick to trailbikes or dirtjump hardtails.

[Trini-dad72]

I was flipping through the MBA buyer's guide at the grocery store (I know...but it was the only bike mag in the rack), and they didn't have any freeride bikes. They had these "black diamond bikes" though. :lol: At the top of the article they said that most people shouldn't even buy them, that they should stick to trailbikes or dirtjump hardtails.

MBA lives in their own universe, I swear... I still buy it though.

[derwood]

I cant wait for "freeriding' to fade away.....

finally get some peace and quiet on the trails around here.......


you know you agree with me........

[Shocker]

steed cycles downgraded their freeride team AHHHHHHHHHHH SHIT what the hell are we guna do fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

[stubz]

steed cycles downgraded their freeride team AHHHHHHHHHHH SHIT what the hell are we guna do fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

my thoughts exactly

[Tom]

I cant wait for "freeriding' to fade away.....

finally get some peace and quiet on the trails around here.......


you know you agree with me........

I sure do.

[seand]

Hey you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.
Perhaps in Portland you can get away with having only one "do all" bike but here in BC (where the REAL riding is IMHO) its much more difficult without having to make major compromises (which I am not willing to do ). I believe in bringing the "right tools" to the task and not be limited in any way (like having to pass up a 20 foot drop on the Shore because my "do all" bike is going to implode on impact).
Cheers


wholly elitist batman :eek2:

while I agree that having more than one bike is quite essential, it is not NEEDED. I have seen plenty of people around fromme, woodlot, whistler, seymour, cypress....yada yada yada...you know, where the REAL riding is, with smaller travel, lighter bikes...usually it is their ONLY bike. I rode the lift last summer with a dude who was rocking a heckler with a smile. We got talking about his bike and I asked him (assuming he was using his lighter bike for the day) how he liked riding whistler on a smaller bike compared to a bigger one...I learned quickly that this was his do-it-all bike for everything. I guess he isn't from BC, hey?

Or the people who ONLY ride a demo9 and pedal it up cypress, or seymour...or people like mattj who pedal their demo up fromme faster than some can get a 30lb hardtail up....who have ONLY a demo and use it for everything...also not a BC rider?

passing up a 20 foot drop on the shore because your do-it-all bike isn't strong enough? come on now...if your bike is exploding on impact you either A) have no idea how to properly build a bike up an/or B) need to work on flow/being smooth before dropping 20 feet out of the air... besides, did anyone notice the bikes being used at crankworx? what was it that berrecloth was using when he 360/x-up'd that monster roadgap?

For you, having atleast 2 bikes may be necessary, but for many, it is not. I believe a well-planned bike that comes in at 35lbs and under can be used for everything...I believe that so much infact, I am going to try the one-bike-for-everything thing for this season...

[Luudwig]

"while I agree that having more than one bike is quite essential, it is not NEEDED."

for you quite essentail...for me Needed. Hey dude I think we are pretty close here so I won't waste any more time discussing what I think is a small remaining difference in opinion.


"what was it that berrecloth was using when he 360/x-up'd that monster roadgap?"

Sorry dude but my skills are NOwhere near berrecloth's and never will be so using him as an example is a non-starter.


"For you, having at least 2 bikes may be necessary, but for many, it is not. I believe a well-planned bike that comes in at 35lbs and under can be used for everything...I believe that so much infact, I am going to try the one-bike-for-everything thing for this season..."

If one bike works for you then great. I have tried it and it didn't work for me so now I have resolved to spend my hard earned bucks on more than one bike...I don' t believe that's elitist (for making that choice I get to drive a beater car that's 14 years old...but whatever)
Cheers

[APT]

Yeah, you can get away with one do-it-all bike but there will be some compromises here and there. I tried consolidating into 1 bike and it just did not work for me. I like having the different ride characteristics that each bike gives me. On top of that, it makes me appreciate the +/-'s of each bike on different terrains.

[Lady Gravity]

i think having more than one bike is just common sense (assuming you can afford it). what happens if you blow up your shock, and it take the shop several weeks to fix? or cracking your frame and trying to get warranty. having to spend several weeks off your bike in the middle of the summer can be worse torture than running your fingers down a chalk board. besides...there's nothing like saying "oooo which one shall i ride today" :P

[TylerDurden]

Wow, lots of good points out there for sure. Shocker - Steed team is the canary in the mine, not the whole enchalada. Derwood - you point is the same one from freeskier EricPehota when asked about freestyle skiing explosion, so again I see parallels in the big drop crowd for both sports. Eric and his kind have been taking a back seat more and more to other kinds of skiing because the masses have a louder voice. So in the same way that Luudwig doesn't want a trail bike under him on the 20 footer, why should the average riders have Luuding's 40lbs+ sofa under them for riding 99/9% of the singletrack out there. After all, the % of riders doing 20+ drops is so miniscule, why should production bikes and associated sponsorships be geared to them. Many would say that gear for these guys should be a special order from a catalogue, not the bikes on half the shop's floor. Again, it's about the right tool for the job and what the masses are doing out on the trail.

For the same reason I hate seeing a Dakar-Insprired,V8 SUV tackling the rigors of Metrotown's parking lot, I shake my head at the new rider schlepin a 40lb VPS down Corkscrew or 7th Secret etc. Its like bringing a bazooka to a knife fight. So what's the new rider do? He jumps in a shuttle truck to top. But honestly, today's 5 n 5 bikes with singlecrowns can handle all the abuse 99% of trails can dish out. Heck, Berecloth rode an Enduro at Crankworx - why would any mortal need more bike than that?

So perhaps retailers know the gig is up and the 40lb+ dual crown'd sofa bike will soon occupy about as much North American shop space as cyclocross.........

[cam@nsmb.com]

There's a location (more than one actually) that should be considered in this discussion.

The Whistler Mountain Bike Park. Record number of riders in 2005 despite horrendous weather to start the season.

[smoochy]

BTW I believe a "full spectrum rider" needs at least 2 bikes in his/her quiver.

not to beat this one:

Lady gravity has a good point that >1 bike system has practical side to it. but so does owning and riding a single machine.

some people can get away quite nicely with the compromises presented by the one bike system and be no less "full spectrum" than others.

this assumes that we are talking about difference facets of MTB on a non-competetive level - hard to be a top notch BMX'er on saturday then take the Cat1 crits on sunday on the same bike!

i guess i'm seeing a certain amount of statements here (and on the rest of the BB's) that can get a fellow down - certain things getting repeated like "6X6" , 33 lbs, 69degree head angle, HID lights, shouldn't put more than 5" on a hardtail or ride a big bike for more than 3 hours of XC at a time. i'm as gear paranoid as anyone, but being told what i can and can't do gets a bit frustrating. where did the freedom go in freeriding when we are suddenly locking ourselves into these paradigms of what the ultimate bike or style should look like?

of course, everyone has an opinion so maybe it isn't the message, but the delivery? :announce:

not trying to be sanctimonious here, so hopefully this isn't taken the wrong way. all i'm saying is enjoy your ride.

are we all holding hands and getting weepy now? :couple:

[Rat]

Wow, lots of good points out there for sure. Shocker - Steed team is the canary in the mine, not the whole enchalada. Derwood - you point is the same one from freeskier EricPehota when asked about freestyle skiing explosion, so again I see parallels in the big drop crowd for both sports. Eric and his kind have been taking a back seat more and more to other kinds of skiing because the masses have a louder voice. So in the same way that Luudwig doesn't want a trail bike under him on the 20 footer, why should the average riders have Luuding's 40lbs+ sofa under them for riding 99/9% of the singletrack out there. After all, the % of riders doing 20+ drops is so miniscule, why should production bikes and associated sponsorships be geared to them. Many would say that gear for these guys should be a special order from a catalogue, not the bikes on half the shop's floor. Again, it's about the right tool for the job and what the masses are doing out on the trail.

For the same reason I hate seeing a Dakar-Insprired,V8 SUV tackling the rigors of Metrotown's parking lot, I shake my head at the new rider schlepin a 40lb VPS down Corkscrew or 7th Secret etc. Its like bringing a bazooka to a knife fight. So what's the new rider do? He jumps in a shuttle truck to top. But honestly, today's 5 n 5 bikes with singlecrowns can handle all the abuse 99% of trails can dish out. Heck, Berecloth rode an Enduro at Crankworx - why would any mortal need more bike than that?

So perhaps retailers know the gig is up and the 40lb+ dual crown'd sofa bike will soon occupy about as much North American shop space as cyclocross.........


Mabey the newbie rider has more fun on a big sled and his shuttletruck. just because it isnt your bag dosnt make it wrong.



Personaly I like my big bike for the speed and how it handles the chunder. I wont be giving it up anytime soon.

[seand]

If one bike works for you then great. I have tried it and it didn't work for me so now I have resolved to spend my hard earned bucks on more than one bike...I don' t believe that's elitist (for making that choice I get to drive a beater car that's 14 years old...but whatever)
Cheers


I was not saying you were elitist for having more than one bike, I was saying elitist for your comment about how REAL riding is in BC and how portland obviously does not have real riding.

I have a few bikes, but hope to only ride one of them everywhere. If that proves to be impossible, then well, I have my others to fall back on :)


and cam is right...whistler's numbers are impressive. Look at their expansion plans!

[DaveM]

Mabey the newbie rider has more fun on a big sled and his shuttletruck. just because it isnt your bag dosnt make it wrong.



Personaly I like my big bike for the speed and how it handles the chunder. I wont be giving it up anytime soon.

Agree. I love my big bike. Just because it's big doesn't mean automatic shuttle. I ride it up everywhere I would my 30 lb hardtail. It just takes more work, and it's waaaaaay more fun on the way down. I don't have more fun climbing on my hardtail, I just don't find climbing all that much fun, but it's how you get up to the good stuff. I get a way better sense of accomplishment cleaning a climb on the big bike!

pffft....anyone can climb on a 35 lb 6X6 bike, it takes a real man to do it on a 50+ pounder. :lol:

[seand]

pffft....anyone can climb on a 35 lb 6X6 bike, it takes a real man to do it on a 50+ pounder. :lol:


what about a 55lb 6x6 bike? :lol:

[Rat]

whats more pathetic

A a newb riding 7th secret on a 50 + pound sled that he spent the last hour and a half pushing to the top

B- A guy on a 5x5 bike that gives a shit about a newb riding 7th secret on a 50+ pound sled that he spent the last hour and a half pushing to the top

[APT]

what about a 55lb 6x6 bike? :lol:

There no excuse for a 55lb 6x6 bike other than poor selection of parts. Unless you're hucking everything to flat, there are great selection of parts with reasonable weight and strength.

Of course, if your 6x6 frame weighs 15lbs, it would be hard to build it light.

[APT]

whats more pathetic

A a newb riding 7th secret on a 50 + pound sled that he spent the last hour and a half pushing to the top

B- A guy on a 5x5 bike that gives a shit about a newb riding 7th secret on a 50+ pound sled that he spent the last hour and a half pushing to the top

I vote for B.

[Wayne P]

C) The kid on the 50lb bike who gets dropped by the guy on a 5x5 bike going down hill.

;)

[Rat]

C) The kid on the 50lb bike who gets dropped by the guy on a 5x5 bike going down hill.

;)


want to buy a heckler? gunmetal grey, great shape. or we could do a frame swap......

[DaveM]

D) The kid on the 5X5 bike that still pushes up Fromme getting passed by the guy on the 50 lb DH bike that climbs it regularly.

I'm not saying that guy is me, but there's a few guys around here that can fly up Fromme on the big bikes.

[APT]

C) The kid on the 50lb bike who gets dropped by the guy on a 5x5 bike going down hill.

;)

:lol: That's unfair. I bet Cedric Gracia would still beat my ass down any trail on a 0x0 bike.

[Sharon]

I think its a progression.

Not everyone needs a +35-40lb bike. Its actually easier to ride a lighter bike.

As has been said, unless you're hucking or hucking to flat on a regular basis you don't NEED a heavy bike that can handle the abuse.

You may PREFER a heavier bike but you can ride the trails on the North Shore with any kind of bike you are used to riding.

If that's a Hard Tail with a 3 inch travel or 5 inch travel fork, or a 3X3, 4X4, 5X5 6X6 or more dually.

While more travel smooths things out, there comes a point when the bike is sucking up so much of the trail you're not really riding the trail anymore.

I know a few people who even prefer to ride a smaller travel bike at Whistler! Where the bigger bikes are more beneficial if only to compensate for the roughness and stutterbumps of the trails!

[Wayne P]

:lol: That's unfair. I bet Cedric Gracia would still beat my ass down any trail on a 0x0 bike.

That's my buddy Jason Winters. He can ride almost as fast on his rigid as he can on his DH bike. I'm not sure if that's a good thing though.

Rat, nah I knew the original owner of that bike. I wouldn't touch it. :lol:

[Wayne P]

While more travel smooths things out, there comes a point when the bike is sucking up so much of the trail you're not really riding the trail anymore.

That's what suspension is supposed to do Sharon. ;) If your suspension is good, then you can still be able to feel the trail no matter how much ya got.

[seand]

There no excuse for a 55lb 6x6 bike other than poor selection of parts. Unless you're hucking everything to flat, there are great selection of parts with reasonable weight and strength.

Of course, if your 6x6 frame weighs 15lbs, it would be hard to build it light.


well my frame started out stupid heavy and the parts added were not overkill, but they could have been better chosen. At the time though, I was breaking parts on a fairly regular basis. Now that this trend has stopped, I have dropped all the frame/spec weight I can by changing everything, saving my legs from having to carry that extra 20 pounds all day long :)


a few months back I saw a guy on CBC rocking a handed-down-many-times hand-me-down fully rigid bike...had he gone any slower, he probably would have fallen over..but man was he having a blast!


I get passed on the climb and descent all the time...as long as your are comforatable with the fact that you suck, the rides are more fun and less about competition :)

-sean, dedicated sweeper :lol:

[Luudwig]

I was not saying you were elitist for having more than one bike, I was saying elitist for your comment about how REAL riding is in BC and how portland obviously does not have real riding.
!

ok I was just giving a little back to the guy from portland (his use of the word "ridiculous" was not called for) and forgive me for being a little biased in favour of the BC riding terrain...but when it's your home turf...well you know(and all those hundreds, perhaps thousands of people from all over the planet that come to BC to ride can' t be wrong, right?).Cheers

[Luudwig]

I know a few people who even prefer to ride a smaller travel bike at Whistler! Where the bigger bikes are more beneficial if only to compensate for the roughness and stutterbumps of the trails!

I believe the "key" word in your statement is "few".
Whenever I looked around in the lift line-up last year I felt "suspension challenged" with my "little 6X6" set up. It seemed to me that everyone around me was riding a bigger rig (but perhaps that was an abnormal sample of the total rider population riding the park that day).

[seand]

ok I was just giving a little back to the guy from portland (his use of the word "ridiculous" was not called for) and forgive me for being a little biased in favour of the BC riding terrain...but when it's your home turf...well you know(and all those hundreds, perhaps thousands of people from all over the planet that come to BC to ride can' t be wrong, right?).Cheers


fair nuff :)

And I agree, 135145612345235346 people/day on cbc can't be wrong :)

[Wayne P]

Right tool for the job, but you can ride any bike pretty much anywhere.

[Farmer]

I think this change has been happening for a while, lok at the size of olr monsters, you have next to no turning and they are huge and heavy, wouldn't you muck prefer a pair of 66's

option f) the kid who is too lazy to pedal up so he sits at home bitching that he cant get a ride to whistler

[Kootenay Rider]

Biking in general is constantly changing as are other sports (look how Snowboarding influenced/saved skiing). One look at Whistler and the dominant freerider - Darren Bearcloth - it's easy to see the change is a BMX/Mountain Biking fusion. Any new or upgraded trials in BC over the last few years has been changed to add gaps/dirt jumps ... look at Whistler, tables and gaps (A-Line) are what the masses want. I remember when the Garbonzo chair opened and people complained it was too rough and had no jumps in it.

Heck, I remember riding 7th on Fromme years ago and it was so gnarly ... now it's smoothed right up!

Gone are the drops to flats and alot of the gnar. Smooth trails is what it's all about these days.

Conclusion you ask? More and more there isn't a need for big travel, heavy bikes to take the flat landings or to soak up the chunder that once was. Now the trails are smoother and more people can ride them with smaller travel bikes. It's actually harder to hit dirt jumps on a big travel bike vs the smaller travel bikes and not as much fun.

As a side note, I still find that BMX video's way more impressive than MTB video's. BMX er's have been going huge and pulling tricks way before us mountain bikers.

[Luudwig]

[QUOTE=Kootenay Rider] I remember when the Garbonzo chair opened and people complained it was too rough and had no jumps in it.

I wasn't one of those who complained. I was elated! a BMX track on a hillside isn' t my thing.

"Heck, I remember riding 7th on Fromme years ago and it was so gnarly ... now it's smoothed right up!"

I remember it too. Rode it the first time around 1995. I just use the XC bike now...wait... I also used the XC bike back in 1995, since that was all that was available...also remember lotsa blood :-).

"Gone are the drops to flats and alot of the gnar."

sooo sad!

"Conclusion you ask? More and more there isn't a need for big travel, heavy bikes to take the flat landings or to soak up the chunder that once was. Now the trails are smoother..."

Again soooo sad!

I guess I am just not in step with the times :-(

[synchro]

i've ridden the same trail(s) on my big bike 7.5/8 and the small bike 5/0 and have had equally good experiences on both. the key is the experience has been different and rewarding in its own way on each bike. ladies or ned's on a hardtail is not a smooth and fast ride, but technically very challenging. the same two trails on the big bike are much smoother and faster. two totally different experiences and two totally rewarding experiences.

like rat said, who care's what's between your legs, just enjoy the ride.

[cam@nsmb.com]

...and all of them without a granny ring
what kind of an enduro is this?!?! for bike park (not you brian, the one with the lifts) and shuttle?

lame IMHO

Mine has a Granny. It's pretty easy to forgo the little ring with a 23 x 34 though.

[HIBuLlitT]

goats gully now there's a smooth trail...if ya got 8"
i'd like to see more of that at whislter, I love flyin over
the roots and rocks. If i were on a ht i'd be in the
hospital with two blown knees and a back...hahaha

[switch]

to totally different experiences and two totally rewarding experiences.

like rat said, who care's what's between your legs, just enjoy the ride.:werd:

Neds on a hardtail is fun. Neds on a big bike is fun. Fun it what it's about, right?

Big bikes were/are necessary to take abuse. They're also necessary for the the size of the rider, as obviously a 120lb rider can get by on less than a 240by rider.

Whether some kid pushes his sled up Fromme, or rides up, who cares? At least the kid is getting out and doing something.

I've always thought riding was about riding. I get enjoyment from riding on the pavement as well as on a trail. I enjoy getting geared up for a more technical ride, and I enjoy being clipped in, fully clad in spandex, for a ride on the road. It is, after all, about the freedom of movement. Categorizing it in terms of what's better, what's useful, etc., has no useful purpose.

[synchro]

I enjoy being... fully clad in spandex.

rob, you may enjoy being fully clad in spandex, but seeing you fully clad in spandex is not very enjoyable for the rest of us.

[Kootenay Rider]

Hey Luudwig,

Perhaps the tone of my post was mis-understood. I was merely trying to offer an explanation, as I see it, as to why the big travel, heavy bikes are less popular than before.

Believe me, I'm glad to see the drops to flat rapidly disappearing!

[Danny K]

I think this change has been happening for a while, lok at the size of olr monsters, you have next to no turning and they are huge and heavy, wouldn't you muck prefer a pair of 66's


Or not.

[trail worker]

I'm glad freeriding is dying down a little. compared to when I started riding almost 10 years ago on an XC bike there has just been too much hype over the last couple years.

Riding is riding and thats the bottom line. I love every aspect of it and I'm happier doing a 2 hour climb before a big descent then having a shuttle to the top. There is nothing more rewarding then being able to actually PEDAL your bike to the store without dying.

This summer I built a light hardtail for my girlfriend to ride. She loves riding recreationally but hasn't done any serious riding on the mountain. We started out with just riding around a few walking trails along old railway tracks and I was embarassed to be having a hard time riding on level ground or on a slight uphill aboard my single ring, 7 inch travel full suspension bike. When she asked how much my bike set me back, I was embarassed to tell her..because she laughed at all the money I had spent and I still couldn't just take it for an enjoyable cruise along the side of the road. realization.

[Shocker]

"Steed team is the canary in the mine, not the whole enchalada. "

Well put, but I still think its a canary that no body cares about, therefor, I wouldn't worry too much about it. :)

[HIBuLlitT]

[sorry for the long post]
Maybe in BC it's dying, but here in Hawaii (all islands) it is just
getting a head of steam.

Three years ago, the three shops on the island publicly blamed
freeriders (and DHers) for ruining "thier" riding area. Well, one of
the shops is selling bottom barrel taiwanese bikes and the other
now embraces the big bikes. His shop not has tires over 2" and
he even stocks bighits, etc. Ask him and freeriding is getting bigger.

I love to shuttle as i'm 40, married, job I work 12-16 hrs a day at,
and a house that feels the ravages of living next to the wettest
place on earth. So, if I get off early (2:30pm) and I bust my butt
getting up the mtn, I'll get there at 4ish so that leaves only a
couple of hrs to ride. Do I spend that time humping up after working
all morning? No, I shuttle.

Don't get me wrong, a good xc ride is fine but it's still got 6X7 for the
ride down.

The reason Barreclaw can do what he does, is he's a pro. Same w/
Paul B and the rest, they are young kids, thier bodies can handle a
few more years of abuse. I use to downhill skate w/ only a pair of
shorts on, my shirt aroung my waste and my slippers in my hands
for "protection". We grew our hair long so it would absorb the impact
when we fell, it all made sense back then.:S When I ride my bike
now it's fuuuuullll gladiator, head-to-toe.

I see so many parrallels w/, biking (long board vs short board, park, pools,
downhill, helmets/no helmets, shoes/no shoes), surfing (single fin vs twin vs
thruster they said it had too many fins won't last, colors vs black/white,
"arials are gay, no soul", blah blah blah).

As someone who went through that phase w/ skating and surfing , I
understand the sentiment, but the reality is; we all ride a bike, we all
do it for fun. If you don't marvel at Darren 360ing a 20' drop, AND Cedric
flying mach 10 down...well down anything, AND Ned Overrend for his tech
XC skill after oh so many years, you're missing out on a big part of the
very thing you all love. It's not the bike, it's the person. Cause ain't no
bike free, you pay one way or another. BTW- no one mentions trail work
as a part of freeriding.

Aloha

[TheGiggler]

[sorry for the long post]
....
BTW- no one mentions trail work
as a part of freeriding.
...



that's because about 0.1% of the people who ride seem to do trail work on the shore ... which is where the majority of the BB members seem to be at.

thousands of people ride the shore every year, yet at the NSMBA trail days it's the same core 30-40 people that come to them year after year.

this is the shore specifically, other locales have a more active trail scene than the shore which is hurtin pretty bad ...

[Chuck D. Railer]

Mine has a Granny. It's pretty easy to forgo the little ring with a 23 x 34 though.

hahaha mine does too.
i couldn't live without a granny! (old guy with too many big, steep hills to climb)

[Tom]

My theory:

Not only has the technology of bikes improved, but the skills of the riders along with it. When I went from riding a HT to a squishy bike, I was able to do stuff I couldn't before. Now that I've done it on a big bike, I can go back and do that stuff on my HT.

[switch]

[sorry for the long post]Three years ago, the three shops on the island publicly blamed
freeriders (and DHers) for ruining "thier" riding area. Well, one of
the shops is selling bottom barrel taiwanese bikes and the other
now embraces the big bikes. His shop not has tires over 2"...Whoah - tires over 2 inches? What's that like?

[HIBuLlitT]

^it's like F@cking TWO sheep if you were a bear...:couple: