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Pedro2005
09-30-2005, 10:24 AM
Hey Everyone!

If you don't like controversial threads, please leave now...



Ok, I warned you.

So here is my observation. Again, I see these New Orleans victims describing how they used to live in a trailer with 10 other people and now they have nothing. Sometimes, it strikes me how overweight some of these individuals are yet according to their description they are extremly poor. How is it possible for someone weighing 300-400 pounds to be extremely poor. They have no money for rent but they have money for way more food then necessary for survival?

I just don't get it.

If you look at any other country where people are extremely poor, practically none of them are overweight (actually, it's quite the opposite). I understand that these people might be eating McDonald's but even McDonald's is not exactly cheap if you eat it day in day out.

So how is it possible for someone sharing a trailer with 10 other people to eat enough extra calories to be 400 pounds? Can somebody enlighten me?

Pedro

PS: This thread is not meant to be offensive in any way. I hope noone feels offended by my comments but I am just curious how the above is possible.




Chunk
09-30-2005, 10:28 AM
its them damn aliens.

seriously, ive thought the same thing. Im clueless as to how they get that way as well.

aShogunNamedMarcus
09-30-2005, 10:46 AM
You're forgetting to factor in the cost of alcohol and firearms. And tobaccer. Lots of tobaccer.

switch
09-30-2005, 11:42 AM
You need to consider that there are a lot of "poor" people in that area. Try doing a :google: search on personal income for the south-eastern states, and you'll find it is pretty low.

Enough money so as not to starve, but only enough to purchase food that has a high calorie per dollar ratio. Also, the climate is pretty hot and muggy, which makes for a lot of lethargy.

the flying moose
09-30-2005, 11:52 AM
You need to consider that there are a lot of "poor" people in that area. Try doing a :google: search on personal income for the south-eastern states, and you'll find it is pretty low.

Enough money so as not to starve, but only enough to purchase food that has a high calorie per dollar ratio. Also, the climate is pretty hot and muggy, which makes for a lot of lethargy.

not to mention low income jobs=more hours worked to make ends meet=little to no time for excercise. throw in a high calorie diet with little or no excercise and you will be overweight.

Dalifted1
09-30-2005, 01:49 PM
what costs more a big mac on mc value day or a 12 inch sub at subway

JdanS
09-30-2005, 04:17 PM
Cheap/fast food == crap make you fat food

billytalented
09-30-2005, 05:32 PM
bad food is cheaper in grocery stores than actual healthy food unless u like vegetables..those can be cheap

seand
09-30-2005, 05:40 PM
people live off gov't assistance programs - welface, foodstamps, etc...

you can buy a case of soda for much less money than you can buy a gallon of juice...the money goes farther that way. same goes for chips, fatty microwave dinners...fried stuff in the frozen isle..the list goes on...

you would eat healthy but starve yourself if you tried to be smart about your diet while on foodstamps...

when water costs more than soda...there is a problem. privatization of water caused this and its not going to get better...

the fatness is due to necessity, not always due to gluttony and/or choice...

we, the us, have the fattest poor people in the world...we, the us, have nobody else to blame for that but ourselves - we put administrations in office who control the way things work.

syncro
09-30-2005, 05:49 PM
people live off gov't assistance programs - welface, foodstamps, etc...

you can buy a case of soda for much less money than you can buy a gallon of juice...the money goes farther that way. same goes for chips, fatty microwave dinners...fried stuff in the frozen isle..the list goes on...

you would eat healthy but starve yourself if you tried to be smart about your diet while on foodstamps...

when water costs more than soda...there is a problem. privatization of water caused this and its not going to get better...

the fatness is due to necessity, not always due to gluttony and/or choice...

we, the us, have the fattest poor people in the world...we, the us, have nobody else to blame for that but ourselves - we put administrations in office who control the way things work.

frozen conc. juice is way less expensive than soda

if you eat healthy you need less food. in reality you starve your body of nutrition when you eat a diet of junk.

water is free out of a tap

there is no excuse for being fat or obese, esp not poverty.

the issue is nutrition education. that and people being lazy about their food choices and simly going for the taste of sugar and fat.

mrraulduke
09-30-2005, 05:51 PM
it's bullshit
healthy food is cheaper then pre-made unhealthy convinece food. it just comes down to laziness and culinary ignorance. it doesn't take alot of time or energy to make a healthy dinner, but compared to popping a hungry man into the microwave it does.

gearwh0re
09-30-2005, 06:18 PM
1.frozen conc. juice is way less expensive than soda

2.if you eat healthy you need less food. in reality you starve your body of nutrition when you eat a diet of junk.

3.water is free out of a tap

4.there is no excuse for being fat or obese, esp not poverty.

5.the issue is nutrition education. that and people being lazy about their food choices and simly going for the taste of sugar and fat.

1. frozen concentrate juice may be less expensive, but it is no better for you.

2.true

3. true, as long as it is drinkable (i believe virtually everywhere it the states it is)

4. very very false

5.kinda true

sorry i am too lazy to explain anything

syncro
09-30-2005, 06:26 PM
1. frozen concentrate juice may be less expensive, but it is no better for you.

2.true

3. true, as long as it is drinkable (i believe virtually everywhere it the states it is)

4. very very false

5.kinda true

sorry i am too lazy to explain anything

1. you pulled a gw. 100% juice is waay better for you then soda. the big thing is you're not supposed to drink a litre of juice in one go. i also recommend that when people make frozen juice they add an extra 1/2 to full can of water to dilute it a bit more. the whole juice thing is bad for you is bunk - it's about how much of it you drink.

4. you need to splain this one my friend. there is no excuse for being overly fat or obese. even the small percentage of people that are predisposed to carrying extra fat don't need to weigh 300lbs.

NOM4D
09-30-2005, 06:31 PM
Dont forget, in the areas in which many poor people live, there is MUCH harder access to fresh fruit and other healthy food.

For example, in West Oakland, an area which has 30,000 residents, there is not ONE grocery store. There are McDonalds and other fast food places, and more than 40 liquor stores (liquor stores in california are like a mini-mart, but with beer, wine, and liquor).

It is the same in poor areas throughout the US

NOM4D
09-30-2005, 06:34 PM
http://www.hbns.org/newsrelease/supermarkets1-01-02.cfm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4652801.stm
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/190061_obesity09.html

mrraulduke
09-30-2005, 06:53 PM
there was a show on the food network, Jamie's school dinners, where he took over a school district's lunch program for 37P per serving. Food and nutrition education is key. It was in england, not the us, and kids in a grade 4 class could barely recognize fresh vegetable. Pretty sad. the kids ate nothing but proccessed meats and chips, kids as young as five treated at the hospital for chronic constipation from the lack of insoluble fibre. pretty gross and sad.their systems were backed up so much they'd eat then vomit it back up cause they were so full of shit there was no where for it to go. I'd imagine it's like that in the poorer parts of the states jusdging by the above articles. But even still....produce stores exist in even the poorest neighbourhoods everywhere, it's most likely they're by-passed for junk food because of lack of education

Pedro2005
09-30-2005, 06:54 PM
Ok. It seems like there is a consensus on junk food being more accessible and much cheaper then healthy foods and hence the obese people.


I understand it is quite a bit more expensive to have a healthy diet but these people don't appear to be your average poor American family living off of $15000 annual income.

There are 10 of these guys sharing a trailer. Imagine yourself, how poor do you think you would have to be for you to be living in a trailer with 9 roommates. Maybe only 1 or 2 of them work but even then, it seems like they spend all of their money on food since I can't imagine the rent on a trailer being too expansive. Futhermore, for you to maintain a 400 pound weight consistently, you probably still have to consume 4000 calories a day (I am not too sure on this exact number). I understand that these calories come from cheap junk food but even if that means 4 big Mac combos, or 3 Hungry Man meals or however you count spending money on 4000 calories that is not exactly cheap in comparison to the fact that you are sharing a trailer with 10 other people.

If they would simply cut down that 4000 calories to 2500 calories, they would probably save enough money to be able to move into an actual house...

Maybe living in a house is not a priority for them, but eating junk fatty food is...

Pedro

seand
09-30-2005, 06:57 PM
frozen oj is NOT cheaper..

you can buy store branded cola that comes down to less than 4cents a can. Tell me how OJ is cheaper than that?

Some areas have undrinkable water from the tap. I had a friend who lived in an area he had to boil his water before drinking it...the electricity cost alone was a killer. he did the math and it was cheaper to buy bottled water.

there are areas with no grocery stores (as previously stated), no pottable water, and people so poor then can barely live off of 50cent burgers from McD's with store branded cola. is it there fault? maybe...but who are we to say there is no excuse for them being the way they are....

i personally hate seeing someone use foodstamps to live...makes me sad every time i see it...what i REALLY hate though...when a parent tells a child they cant have something because they cant afford it..then the parent turns around and buys smokes...

foodstamps should be regulated by a law that dictates no smokes are to be bought with them....

NOM4D
09-30-2005, 07:12 PM
i used to have to go buy food with foodstamps; i was embarrased.

syncro
09-30-2005, 07:16 PM
Dont forget, in the areas in which many poor people live, there is MUCH harder access to fresh fruit and other healthy food.

For example, in West Oakland, an area which has 30,000 residents, there is not ONE grocery store. There are McDonalds and other fast food places, and more than 40 liquor stores (liquor stores in california are like a mini-mart, but with beer, wine, and liquor).

It is the same in poor areas throughout the US

that's a tough one. are there no small markets or delis though either? there has to be choices besides just McD's though, or at least alternatives to burgers, fries and cola everyday.

Tom P
09-30-2005, 07:33 PM
burgers, fries and cola everyday.

now that is a scary thought. I don't understand how people can be oblivious to the cause/effect relationship of what they put in their bodies. Maybe they are quite content with being obese?

syncro
09-30-2005, 07:36 PM
frozen oj is NOT cheaper..

you can buy store branded cola that comes down to less than 4cents a can. Tell me how OJ is cheaper than that?

Some areas have undrinkable water from the tap. I had a friend who lived in an area he had to boil his water before drinking it...the electricity cost alone was a killer. he did the math and it was cheaper to buy bottled water.

there are areas with no grocery stores (as previously stated), no pottable water, and people so poor then can barely live off of 50cent burgers from McD's with store branded cola. is it there fault? maybe...but who are we to say there is no excuse for them being the way they are....

i personally hate seeing someone use foodstamps to live...makes me sad every time i see it...what i REALLY hate though...when a parent tells a child they cant have something because they cant afford it..then the parent turns around and buys smokes...

foodstamps should be regulated by a law that dictates no smokes are to be bought with them....


i don't know about prices in the states but am basing it on prices here. you get store branded cola for like 50 cents a can i think. so..

355ml can of cola x 50 cents x 4 cans = $2.00 for 1.4L of cola

1 can frozen oj = $1 on sale = 1.4 - 1.7L of juice depending on whether you add the extra water.

so the juice is like 1/2 the cost of the cola for an equivlant to greater amount of liquid. so even at half the price, 25 cents/can, the juice is still a better overall value.

there are always choices/options. if you've got nothing, what's holding you to a shitty area where everything sucks. welfare in a dirt bowl is the same as welfare in a bigger city is it not? why not move to an area that has greater opportunities?

i can equate being very fat and out of shape as a sin against your creator or a crime against nature (depending on what your belief system is). your body (mind included) is a gift like no other and is the one thing that we all have (with some exceptions) and can use to achieve greatness. to abuse your body to the point that to becomes useless is a crying shame.

Rat
09-30-2005, 07:47 PM
20% if peopel smoke ciggeretes how is that any different.

these people are in a cycle of shitty eating no exersize Its obviously a pretty easy trap to fall into. I would say its pretty tough habit to kick, however your fit and healthy and ride a high horse and cant understand it.


You want a contraversy - People are starving of malnutrition and letting there children die of starvation in Africa because ........they are lazy. Im not joking on this one you have to live it to understand it, its a cultural thing that the western world just cant come to grips with.

Shmoe
09-30-2005, 07:49 PM
Eating Crappy food is way cheaper.

Look how much good veggies cost, fruit costs, 'helthy' cereal and such. Compare this with pizza pops, kraft dinner, ramen and the likes. Its a hell of a difference. I know when im trying to save money I end up eating way worse.

What are you gonna do, goto subway for $10 or goto MacD's and spend $3 on a cheesburger meal.

mrraulduke
09-30-2005, 07:55 PM
fruit and veggies are cheap.
i go to the produce store, can buy 2 full baskets and the bill comes to 25 bucks.
and 3 bucks fro a cheeseburger.
go to safeway...1 pork chop, 1 carrot, 1 potato = dinner for about 2 bucks.
healtier, cheaper..but ya gotta add heat ...but people are too lazy

syncro
09-30-2005, 07:58 PM
these people are in a cycle of shitty eating no exersize Its obviously a pretty easy trap to fall into. I would say its pretty tough habit to kick, however your fit and healthy and ride a high horse and cant understand it.

You want a contraversy - People are starving of malnutrition and letting there children die of starvation in Africa because ........they are lazy. Im not joking on this one you have to live it to understand it, its a cultural thing that the western world just cant come to grips with.

you're right, i haven't been in that type of situation before. i have been broke short term though and managed to make out ok by thinking and exploring my options but i agree its not the same thing. you're also right that i can't understand how/why people abuse their bodies in any manner whether it be food, alcahol, drugs, inactivity or what not. like i said, i beleive our bodies to be the supreme gift and to let them rot is just wrong.

the africa thing i know nothing about, but that's some messed up shit. what's also messed up is that the world produces more than enough food for everyone yet people still die of hunger. i saw it in a post here somewhere and don't kow the source or if it's true, but something like 40% of america's food supply ends up in the garbage or going to waste.

Couch_Surfer
09-30-2005, 07:58 PM
If they would simply cut down that 4000 calories to 2500 calories, they would probably save enough money to be able to move into an actual house...

Considering a "Super Big Gulp" will cost you about a buck, and you're pulling close to a thousand calories out of that. I think your hypothesis might need a little more work. edit: or whatever that ridiculous 2L version is (I don't actually drink these things anymore)

Education (both nutrition and exercise) and access to healthier choices are certainly causes of the problem


Maybe living in a house is not a priority for them, but eating junk fatty food is...

Are you throwing this kind of crap out there becase you really can't see it - or are you just trying to stir the pot up?

syncro
09-30-2005, 08:01 PM
Eating Crappy food is way cheaper.

Look how much good veggies cost, fruit costs, 'helthy' cereal and such. Compare this with pizza pops, kraft dinner, ramen and the likes. Its a hell of a difference. I know when im trying to save money I end up eating way worse.

What are you gonna do, goto subway for $10 or goto MacD's and spend $3 on a cheesburger meal.

you can spend less than $5 at subway and eat eay better than your $3 or $4 at McD's.

crappy food is not way cheaper. the laziness of not being willing to prepare a meal it what's costing people. 20 cents for a banana ro $1 for a chocolate bar, you choose.

Rat
09-30-2005, 08:11 PM
Some would say chucking yourself off a 10 foot cliff on a bicycle would be abusing your body. All im saying its so easy to sit back and judge people when you havnt walked in their shoes. Going on about how they could eat a Bannana for for cheaper than choclate bar is a waste of time. Its got nothign to do with the economics of it.

syncro
09-30-2005, 08:30 PM
Some would say chucking yourself off a 10 foot cliff on a bicycle would be abusing your body. All im saying its so easy to sit back and judge people when you havnt walked in their shoes. Going on about how they could eat a Bannana for for cheaper than choclate bar is a waste of time. Its got nothign to do with the economics of it.

yes, they could. you could also say the same thing about walking down a flight of stairs, cause if you fall... so we better take the elevator and hope that doesn't crash.

we all make choices in life, some good some bad, and hopefully we learn from the bad ones. yes there's a lot more going on, but the economics is a part of it. people are gonna do what they're gonna do - that's their choice. is it so bad that i think it's sad how unhealthy some people are? and i'm not just thinking just about the louisiana people pedro's talking about either. when it comes down to it people can do what they want and that's their choice. if i'm weaker person or wrong in some way for having a judgement about health that's my poor choice i guess.


ps the banana thing was just a specific ref to dude talkin bout the mcd's thing for $3.

Pedro2005
09-30-2005, 08:46 PM
Considering a "Super Big Gulp" will cost you about a buck, and you're pulling close to a thousand calories out of that. I think your hypothesis might need a little more work. edit: or whatever that ridiculous 2L version is (I don't actually drink these things anymore)

Education (both nutrition and exercise) and access to healthier choices are certainly causes of the problem

Are you throwing this kind of crap out there becase you really can't see it - or are you just trying to stir the pot up?

First of all, your Super Big Gulp argument makes sense. That is an extremly cheap way of getting calories into the body though I still think that these people spend the largest portion of their money on food. They can't drink 4 Big Gulps a day to live off of. For example, they consume 4 food portions 1000 calories each and let's say each of these food portions cost $3 each. Let's say they cut one of these food portions from their diet, that will add up to $90 per month. If all 10 people do this that adds up to $900 a month from which I can imagine you can rent a house down South. I know these numbers are all hypothetical but they are their to think about how much they spend and consume.

Secondly, I understand that eating junk food is somewhat of an addiction. It is not easy to break the cycle. There has to be more support provided for this 'disease'.

Thirdly, I don't understand why you get so upset regarding my last comment. I didn't throw it out to stir the pot. I didn't mean to offend anybody. It was simply a valid question wondering whether if crapy food is their priority as a result of addiction or whatever reason.

Fourthly, I gave a warning at the beginning of the thread. If you don't like controversy, get out of the thread. It was a choice that was given to you. If you don't like some of the comments, run along and start a thread discussing how 'Sunny and wonderful it is in Disney Land'.

Pedro

Aircorp
09-30-2005, 08:52 PM
the issue is nutrition education. that and people being lazy about their food choices and simly going for the taste of sugar and fat.

I agree, this is my thought on the matter. there is a definate relationship between education, or lack of, and poverty. I think people who arent educated in nutrition go for what is cheap and tastes good, it just makes sense to them. Sure there are alternatives out there, but it doesnt mean they know about them.

Rat
09-30-2005, 08:54 PM
Just an interesting test for those that cant understand how these guys can make these poor choices. How about you drasticly change your diet for the better for two or three months and see how easy it is.

Lets say eat nothing but healthy raw foods or as close to that as possible. No Refined Sugar, No cooked fats, No Meat, No Alchohol, No caffine.

Add to that an additional 30 minutes a day of streaching or exersize beyond your regular routine.


Come Pedro05 can ya do it? Splinky ?

Pedro2005
09-30-2005, 09:03 PM
Come Pedro05 can ya do it? Splinky ?

OK. OK.

I am going to reiterate my point.

My initial question was NOT why these people eat shit foods?

My question was how come they have no money for rent (actually 10 people) yet they have enough money to feed a few thousand calories a day for 10 people. I understand that junk food is cheap but when you keep 10 people obese, even buying the cheapest junk food will add up.

On the other hand, some of my questions had indeed been answered by comparing junk food to smoking and other addictions.

Pedro

gearwh0re
09-30-2005, 09:09 PM
1. you pulled a gw. 100% juice is waay better for you then soda. the big thing is you're not supposed to drink a litre of juice in one go. i also recommend that when people make frozen juice they add an extra 1/2 to full can of water to dilute it a bit more. the whole juice thing is bad for you is bunk - it's about how much of it you drink.

.noone ever said juice is bad for you.

frozen concentrate is not juice. not at all

not only is it pasturized which kills just about all the good stuff in it, but then the sugars are extracted from the water.

all that is left of that orange (if we are talking OJ) is sugar water and a bit of colour, along with some almost unuseable vitimans

i know juice is good for ya, a few years back i lost 18 pounds from having only fresh juice before noon (then eating regular after noon) the pounds just shed off. i can't seem to get back on the kick though

Rat
09-30-2005, 09:10 PM
Obviously because they thier priority whether they know it or not is feeding the habit (excuse the pun)

ozorah
09-30-2005, 09:15 PM
I think part of the problem has to be with the way people in the states are educated. They are used to the idea of getting whatever they want whenever they want and as fast and as big as possible with minimal effort. For example: If a regular drink costs 90c and the supersize costs 1.10, thats only 20 cents, might as well get the big one, and if the establishment has a drive through even better cause I dont have to get out of my comfy car to get it and I can also get home faster since its already 3:00 a.m.

My point is that this kind of attitude is creating a lot of lazy people who are not used to excercise, plus add all that high calorie food they consume and you get a lot of obese people.

Tom P
09-30-2005, 09:15 PM
No Alchohol, No caffeine.

Now that's simply crazy talk.

patrolskid
09-30-2005, 09:23 PM
hey pedro , like the thread and the discussion . . . .


my observation : those people are like that because that is way the american system develops them .

i don't think it even ever occurs to those folks that they are way out of shape . i'm sure they never even have the inclination to stand in front of a mirror and see what is happening to them . i doubt very much that there is any real encouragement for them to make any positive changes in their lives .

the american system wants them to consume as much manufactured , processed shit as possible , whatever their income level , and then become clients of their medical system . unhealthy consumers are way more profitable to way more industries than are healthy people who don't consume as much . the medical system is a growth industry that relies on new clients . . . .

i had a discussion with a friend the other day . she had the opportunity to attend a conference of american doctors in the liver game . the main tone of their conference was how to get more dialysis machines in circulation . nothing about prevention , or diet , or lifestyle . they just wanted to talk about how they could increase business . this is one example that tells you a lot about how the system works .

when the world health organization wanted to launch a program aimed at reducing caloric intake to 10% sugars per day , the bush administration shot them down , saying you do anything to reduce demand for sugar , and we'll pull ALL funding . that's how business in america works .

and i think that's why those folks look the way they do . . . .

mrraulduke
09-30-2005, 09:24 PM
frozen concentrated oj is still good for you, as long as you read the ingredients.only about 2-5% of the vitamin C is lost in the process ( look it up, it's on the net and a bunch of dietary books) but you have to be buying 100% orange juice from concentrate ( eg. Old South, Safeway brand ) what is bad are all the fruit beverages.....sugary water with juice flavor.

Pedro2005
09-30-2005, 09:32 PM
hey pedro , like the thread and the discussion . . . .


my observation : those people are like that because that is way the american system develops them .

i don't think it even ever occurs to those folks that they are way out of shape . i'm sure they never even have the inclination to stand in front of a mirror and see what is happening to them . i doubt very much that there is any real encouragement for them to make any positive changes in their lives .

the american system wants them to consume as much manufactured , processed shit as possible , whatever their income level , and then become clients of their medical system . unhealthy consumers are way more profitable to way more industries than are healthy people who don't consume as much . the medical system is a growth industry that relies on new clients . . . .

i had a discussion with a friend the other day . she had the opportunity to attend a conference of american doctors in the liver game . the main tone of their conference was how to get more dialysis machines in circulation . nothing about prevention , or diet , or lifestyle . they just wanted to talk about how they could increase business . this is one example that tells you a lot about how the system works .

when the world health organization wanted to launch a program aimed at reducing caloric intake to 10% sugars per day , the bush administration shot them down , saying you do anything to reduce demand for sugar , and we'll pull ALL funding . that's how business in america works .

and i think that's why those folks look the way they do . . . .

Yeah, that's pretty pessimistic that value is found in monetary gains and not in quality of life.

Pedro

syncro
09-30-2005, 09:43 PM
Just an interesting test for those that cant understand how these guys can make these poor choices. How about you drasticly change your diet for the better for two or three months and see how easy it is.

Lets say eat nothing but healthy raw foods or as close to that as possible. No Refined Sugar, No cooked fats, No Meat, No Alchohol, No caffine.

Add to that an additional 30 minutes a day of streaching or exersize beyond your regular routine.


Come Pedro05 can ya do it? Splinky ?

bwahhahah - i've never said you have to be 100% perfect and i don't expect other people to be either. you can eat shit once in a while, just not all the time. but if you do take the shit out of your diet, you will notice it. the last time i ate mcd's i felt like crap after. you don't develop a 50lb growth around your waist by eating a generally healthy diet with [b]moderate]/b] levels of sugar, fat and alcahol

i hardly drink - you know that, i don't drink coffee, lean cuts of meat are fine, my big thing is staying away from the sugar. in moderation it's not a problem. i could add an extra 30 minutes of exercise every day but i don't really need to as i get enough to be healthy as it is. and this is where your arguement falls apart.

we're talking about people that never exercise. we're talking about people that eat processed food all the time. there is no excuse for that.

BrianPark
09-30-2005, 09:46 PM
The key to being poor and thin, is either have LOTS of time, so you can search around for the best deals on food that is good for you, and prepare it, etc... OR, have so little time that you don't really even get a chance to eat very often.

I'm doing the second, and its working TOO well. I've always been a chubby kid, but since moving out, to vancouver, and starting school, I've dropped weight alarmingly fast. I realize it's unhealthy, but like, I barely have time (or rather, barely MAKE time) to eat like, an apple for breakfast, one pack of dry ramen noodles for lunch, and oatmeal or macaroni for dinner.

Actually, I need to try to eat better, since I'm thinking it's going to start really affecting me soon... blech.


Also, whoever said that there is NO excuse for being fat (Synchro?), that is 100% incorrect. There are several conditions, that cause your body to create a need to overeat. For instance thyroid problems (but I don't know much about them). Also, there are several documented cases where people suffered brain injury, and damaged specific parts of their brains, and from that point on, they had a never ending compulsion to eat.

syncro
09-30-2005, 09:46 PM
noone ever said juice is bad for you.

frozen concentrate is not juice. not at all

not only is it pasturized which kills just about all the good stuff in it, but then the sugars are extracted from the water.

all that is left of that orange (if we are talking OJ) is sugar water and a bit of colour, along with some almost unuseable vitimans

i know juice is good for ya, a few years back i lost 18 pounds from having only fresh juice before noon (then eating regular after noon) the pounds just shed off. i can't seem to get back on the kick though

you're getting confused with the fruit drinks and punches as shit. i'm talking 100% juice. it's not just sugar water.

three sheets
09-30-2005, 09:51 PM
Synchro,

You ever been in a "grocery store" down in the South?

If not,let me tell you,you would be shocked at the lack of what you and I call food in the aisles.

Everything comes in a flashy colourful box or is wrapped in plastic.

Tofu is a brand of floor cleaner

Cold pressed flax oil .....they'll think you're looking for dope......

We are pretty lucky to have good food choices up here.

As well, the poorer the area,the crappier the selection.....

It makes keeping a healthy diet pretty tough when all you can buy is crap....even milk in some places down there ain't milk....they call it "fortified dairy beverage".....not sure what that means......

syncro
09-30-2005, 09:53 PM
Also, whoever said that there is NO excuse for being fat (Synchro?), that is 100% incorrect. There are several conditions, that cause your body to create a need to overeat. For instance thyroid problems (but I don't know much about them). Also, there are several documented cases where people suffered brain injury, and damaged specific parts of their brains, and from that point on, they had a never ending compulsion to eat.

ok brian, here we go. i did say this:

there is no excuse for being fat or obese, esp not poverty.

the issue is nutrition education. that and people being lazy about their food choices and simly going for the taste of sugar and fat.

the inplied reference was very fat or obese, not just 15lbs overfat.

i did make that point clear in a subsequent post by saying this:

there is no excuse for being overly fat or obese. even the small percentage of people that are predisposed to carrying extra fat don't need to weigh 300lbs.

as for the brain injury thing, that's a bit of an extreme case if it's even true.

gearwh0re
09-30-2005, 10:09 PM
you're getting confused with the fruit drinks and punches as shit. i'm talking 100% juice. it's not just sugar water.splinks, you are getting confused. i am talking about frozen concentrated "juice" it may have started off and just juice, but you are not drinking just juice.

ever had real OJ? it is so fucking good. go to a juice place and order one up (or an apple carrot) and you will barely be able to swallow grocery store "juice" after that

BrianPark
09-30-2005, 10:10 PM
ok brian, here we go. i did say this:



the inplied reference was very fat or obese, not just 15lbs overfat.

i did make that point clear in a subsequent post by saying this:



as for the brain injury thing, that's a bit of an extreme case if it's even true.
Yes, I understand what you meant about there being no excuse for being morbidly obese, but I still disagree. Thyroid problems can cause it, with no fault to anyone, and the brain injury thing is definately true. I skimmed through one of my Psychology textbooks just now to try and find the passage, but it must be in a different book. This one is close enough though:
"However, if the ventromedial nucleus is destroyed, the animal will eat continuously, increasing its weight up to threefold." (Kent et al., 1994)

syncro
09-30-2005, 10:10 PM
Synchro,

You ever been in a "grocery store" down in the South?

If not,let me tell you,you would be shocked at the lack of what you and I call food in the aisles.

Everything comes in a flashy colourful box or is wrapped in plastic.

Tofu is a brand of floor cleaner

Cold pressed flax oil .....they'll think you're looking for dope......

We are pretty lucky to have good food choices up here.

As well, the poorer the area,the crappier the selection.....

It makes keeping a healthy diet pretty tough when all you can buy is crap....even milk in some places down there ain't milk....they call it "fortified dairy beverage".....not sure what that means......

add this to what pskid said and you start to get an appreciation of the real problem and are able to begin to connect the dots to what the real problem is and is something i've "preached" about in other threads.

our capitalistic way of life is destroying us and the planet. corporate america and the political powers are focused on one thing, profit.

The giant food maunufacturer/agrico buys their cheap wheat/meat/dairy/produce the US farmer that receives millions in subsidies from the gov't which has been lobbied and politicaly funded by said companies to produce a food product as cheaply as possible to sell as much as possible to the unsuspecting schmuck so they can maximize their profits all at the expense of the consumer. there are a few people gettin rich off this system and a lot of people getting owned by it they don't even realize it.

it happens with all consumer goods. anybody wanna talk about oil?

sure, these unfortunate people do not have access to what we have and it sucks for them. i'll bet though that if you live in a town large enough to have a McD's or a mini-mart there's probably a library somewhere where you could learn a thing or two about health and what's good for you body and mind if you want to. but if people are happy plodding along the way they are that's their choice. i don't agree with it, but that's their choice.

BrianPark
09-30-2005, 10:11 PM
splinks, you are getting confused. i am talking about frozen concentrated "juice" it may have started off and just juice, but you are not drinking just juice.

ever had real OJ? it is so fucking good. go to a juice place and order one up (or an apple carrot) and you will barely be able to swallow grocery store "juice" after that
...or go squeeze your own. It is reallllllly good.

Pedro2005
09-30-2005, 10:15 PM
Yes, I understand what you meant about there being no excuse for being morbidly obese, but I still disagree. Thyroid problems can cause it, with no fault to anyone, and the brain injury thing is definately true.

I had a similar discussion with a friend of mine before and this is what my argument was:

No matter what your metabolism is, or what your thyriods do, you do NOT end up being 400 lbs from eating 2000 calories a day.

Pedro

syncro
09-30-2005, 10:15 PM
Yes, I understand what you meant about there being no excuse for being morbidly obese, but I still disagree. Thyroid problems can cause it, with no fault to anyone, and the brain injury thing is definately true. I skimmed through one of my Psychology textbooks just now to try and find the passage, but it must be in a different book. This one is close enough though:
"However, if the ventromedial nucleus is destroyed, the animal will eat continuously, increasing its weight up to threefold." (Kent et al., 1994)

you're right that thyroid problems can cause it. i will reserve opinion on the other one and they are probably talking about lab rats in that specific example. however, even though someone has a condition that predisposes them to being quite large, there are still some preventative measures available to them to prevent things from getting way out of hand. there are options, just like there are lots of recovering alcaholics that don't drink anymore.

gearwh0re
09-30-2005, 10:16 PM
...or go squeeze your own. It is reallllllly good.i have a juicer collecting dust that i REALLY need to take out

syncro
09-30-2005, 10:19 PM
splinks, you are getting confused. i am talking about frozen concentrated "juice" it may have started off and just juice, but you are not drinking just juice.

ever had real OJ? it is so fucking good. go to a juice place and order one up (or an apple carrot) and you will barely be able to swallow grocery store "juice" after that

ok, but 100% frozen juice is not the devil you think it is. there are some shite quality brands, but there's also some good quality stuff too - ya just gotta look for it.

syncro
09-30-2005, 10:20 PM
i have a juicer collecting dust that i REALLY need to take out

there ya go - at least one positive from this thread - if you pull the juicer out.

bwahahaha - damn that sounds nasty, gearwhore pullin his juicer out

three sheets
09-30-2005, 10:24 PM
but if people are happy plodding along the way they are that's their choice. i don't agree with it, but that's their choice.
MANY americans simply have no choice....you have to see it to understand it.

I did a road trip through 40 states about 10 years ago.We hit a lot of small towns off the beaten path of the interstate in search of good fishing(yes,I was an extreme fisherman before I became an extreme web poster).

I was shocked at the absolute povery....not poor like eastside Van.....worse.

Many towns had liquor stores,gun shops 7-11,in and out's.....but no grocery store.

No fruit and veg markets(especially shocking in areas with huge farming tracts,which I found out were owned by large corps.)

No butcher.

But you could get a soda and a hot dog at the gas station for 49 cents.

Emmens
09-30-2005, 10:29 PM
It's pretty tough for someone to bargain hunt and prepare well balanced meals when they're working 2 or 3 jobs just to keep their heads above water.

OMG THEY ARE TEH LAZY SAYS I FROM MY COMPUTER IN MY PARTENS HOUSSE!!

syncro
09-30-2005, 10:30 PM
No fruit and veg markets(especially shocking in areas with huge farming tracts,which I found out were owned by large corps.)

that's part of the problem, read my tinfoil hat post.

i realise i do have a biased view of all this btw. maybe i should be questioning people's desire for something better than what they have. or maybe on a simpler level, simply the curiosity to see what else is out there.

Tom P
09-30-2005, 10:32 PM
re: thyroid

I had a friend who had a family member with a "thyroid problem". She spent all day on the couch eating cheesy poofs and watching jerry springer.

three sheets
09-30-2005, 10:32 PM
that's part of the problem, read my tinfoil hat post.

i realise i do have a biased view of all this btw. maybe i should be questioning people's desire for something better than what they have. or maybe on a simpler level, simply the curiosity to see what else is out there.
I thought the tinfoil hat thing was sarc.

three sheets
09-30-2005, 10:33 PM
...or go squeeze your own. It is reallllllly good.
How did GW NOT go to town with this one?????

syncro
09-30-2005, 10:34 PM
It's pretty tough for someone to bargain hunt and prepare well balanced meals when they're working 2 or 3 jobs just to keep their heads above water.

OMG THEY ARE TEH LAZY SAYS I FROM MY COMPUTER IN MY PARTENS HOUSSE!!

cook 2-3 meals at the same time, put the rest in the freezer

Emmens
09-30-2005, 10:35 PM
that's part of the problem, read my tinfoil hat post.

i realise i do have a biased view of all this btw. maybe i should be questioning people's desire for something better than what they have. or maybe on a simpler level, simply the curiosity to see what else is out there.

It's easy to look at these people and scoff at their "unenlightened" lives, but you have to keep in mind the fact that you (most likely) have had a life where you've had the oppertunity to learn about such things.
-Mark

Emmens
09-30-2005, 10:36 PM
cook 2-3 meals at the same time, put the rest in the freezer

That assumes that a) you have a freezer, and b) you have enough disposable money to buy 2-3 meals worth of food at a time.

-Mark

syncro
09-30-2005, 10:37 PM
I thought the tinfoil hat thing was sarc.

do some ready on how our food supply really works, you'll shit yourself. the amount of oil used in our food production chain is crazy. we are using huge amounts of energy and resources to produce food because its all just big business now. everything is ass backwards.

syncro
09-30-2005, 10:40 PM
It's easy to look at these people and scoff at their "unenlightened" lives, but you have to keep in mind the fact that you (most likely) have had a life where you've had the oppertunity to learn about such things.
-Mark

when i started riding, like a lot of people, i knew nothing about trail maintenance or how the trails got there. but i was curious and asked around and now it's a different story. many people just ride around with their blinders on and never ask that question. a lot of things in life are similar. you can ask yourself why or how soemthing is or you can just accept it for the way it is.

syncro
09-30-2005, 10:45 PM
That assumes that a) you have a freezer, and b) you have enough disposable money to buy 2-3 meals worth of food at a time.

-Mark


ok,so if neither of those is true what do you do? someone mentioned food stamps. can you buy only one can of soup at a time?

big can of soup, $1 or $2. hot dog and a soda at the mini mart $1 or $2 depending on the size of the dog and the soda. potential nutritional difference between the two?

DaveM
09-30-2005, 10:46 PM
I think it's funny reading the Splinkster enlightening the masses on proper diet after watching him eat for a weekend!!

Quiznos, Dairy Queen, Tim Hortons (1 dozen donuts to himself), Big Gulp......and that was just the road trip up to Silver Star. The man must have a blistering fast metabolism not to weigh 400 lbs.

three sheets
09-30-2005, 10:47 PM
when i started riding, like a lot of people, i knew nothing about trail maintenance or how the trails got there. but i was curious and asked around and now it's a different story. many people just ride around with their blinders on and never ask that question. a lot of things in life are similar. you can ask yourself why or how soemthing is or you can just accept it for the way it is.
I thought we were talking about food here.....now I wanna go ride.

switch
09-30-2005, 10:49 PM
With regards to being fat, in some cultures being fat is considered to be healthy - particularly economically healthy - as it shows you have enough money to be eating a lot.

Couch_Surfer
09-30-2005, 10:49 PM
Thirdly, I don't understand why you get so upset regarding my last comment. I didn't throw it out to stir the pot. I didn't mean to offend anybody. It was simply a valid question wondering whether if crapy food is their priority as a result of addiction or whatever reason.

Not upset - I was honestly wondering if you were throwing out BS to stir the pot. I find it surprising with all of the literature out there that someone would postulate that the poor are living the way they live simply because they want to eat junk food.



Fourthly, I gave a warning at the beginning of the thread. If you don't like controversy, get out of the thread. It was a choice that was given to you. If you don't like some of the comments, run along and start a thread discussing how 'Sunny and wonderful it is in Disney Land'.

So you make an assumption about whether or not I'm offended by your questions then you dump this load of garbage out there? I haven't had a problem with any of the comments in this thread other then this one. But thanks anyway for the heavy helping of condescension - feel free to shove it right back up your ass.

syncro
09-30-2005, 10:49 PM
I think it's funny reading the Splinkster enlightening the masses on proper diet after watching him eat for a weekend!!

Quiznos, Dairy Queen, Tim Hortons (1 dozen donuts to himself), Big Gulp......and that was just the road trip up to Silver Star. The man must have a blistering fast metabolism not to weigh 400 lbs.

i only had one blizzard there big fella, not like the large moo-latte and blizzard that you had.

anyways, i'll say it one more time. you don't have to eat perfect and exercise like a madman all the time to be healthy. that's what's so sad about it all. the amount of effort required to be even a little bit healthy is pretty small. think about that the next time you knock back a case of beer on a sat night.

Emmens
09-30-2005, 10:50 PM
when i started riding, like a lot of people, i knew nothing about trail maintenance or how the trails got there. but i was curious and asked around and now it's a different story. many people just ride around with their blinders on and never ask that question. a lot of things in life are similar. you can ask yourself why or how soemthing is or you can just accept it for the way it is.

I don't think that's really a very good analogy. What are these people going to do, look it up on the internet? If you're working 3 jobs to keep a roof over your kids' heads, you generally don't have a lot of time to go do research into healthier eating, especially when there aren't really any/many other options open for you anyway, regardless of how educated you are on the subject.

Yes, there are probably a lot of people who are in situations like this due to bad choices, etc. But there are also a lot of people who are truly stuck due to the situations they are in and have no realistic way of bettering their situation. If other alternatives aren't readily available, and they don't have the means to seek them out, there's not really much they can do.

-Mark

three sheets
09-30-2005, 10:54 PM
think about that the next time you knock back a case of beer on a sat night.
leave the beer out of this....we're all being civil like here......

syncro
09-30-2005, 10:55 PM
I haven't had a problem with any of the comments in this thread other then this one. But thanks anyway for the heavy helping of condescension - feel free to shove it right back up your ass.

bwahahahaha - that's just beautiful

syncro
09-30-2005, 11:07 PM
I don't think that's really a very good analogy. What are these people going to do, look it up on the internet? If you're working 3 jobs to keep a roof over your kids' heads, you generally don't have a lot of time to go do research into healthier eating, especially when there aren't really any/many other options open for you anyway, regardless of how educated you are on the subject.

Yes, there are probably a lot of people who are in situations like this due to bad choices, etc. But there are also a lot of people who are truly stuck due to the situations they are in and have no realistic way of bettering their situation. If other alternatives aren't readily available, and they don't have the means to seek them out, there's not really much they can do.

-Mark

yeah you're right, i probably should have looked for something a bit better but it did get the point across.

you're may also be correct with your second point. seeing as i don't live in that type of situation or have experienced it, i cannot fully understand how bad it is.

i think at some point though all people question who they, where they are going, what's important to them etc. if they are happy with the answer they find or lack thereof that is their deal and they stay the course. if you are unhappy and want to do something about it you will find a way to better your situation. that is the unique thing about being human, our spirit is indominatable. we have nearly unlimited potential to further ourselves if we want to.

Emmens
09-30-2005, 11:27 PM
yeah you're right, i probably should have looked for something a bit better but it did get the point across.

you're may also be correct with your second point. seeing as i don't live in that type of situation or have experienced it, i cannot fully understand how bad it is.

i think at some point though all people question who they, where they are going, what's important to them etc. if they are happy with the answer they find or lack thereof that is their deal and they stay the course. if you are unhappy and want to do something about it you will find a way to better your situation. that is the unique thing about being human, our spirit is indominatable. we have nearly unlimited potential to further ourselves if we want to.

But can you imagine how it must feel to be turned down at every attempt to better your situation, for pretty much your whole life? That's how it is for some people. I can't even begin to imagine how that must feel.

-Mark

syncro
09-30-2005, 11:29 PM
i can't imagine either bro.

good discussion either way - i just like to see people take care of themselves if at all possible.

Rat
09-30-2005, 11:30 PM
The giant food maunufacturer/agrico buys their cheap wheat/meat/dairy/produce the US farmer that receives millions in subsidies from the gov't which has been lobbied and politicaly funded by said companies to produce a food product as cheaply as possible to sell as much as possible to the unsuspecting schmuck so they can maximize their profits all at the expense of the consumer. there are a few people gettin rich off this system and a lot of people getting owned by it they don't even realize it.

.

I love people who always blame it on the mega corporations. such easy targets.

the consoumer is to blame for whats on the shelves. the companies only fill demand. if the demand is for cheap crap then thats what they will make. If everyone was willing to pay more (because it costs more to make) for higher quality foods, there will be a company there to meet that demand.

the flying moose
09-30-2005, 11:30 PM
what i REALLY hate though...when a parent tells a child they cant have something because they cant afford it..then the parent turns around and buys smokes...

saw that the other night at safeway. the mom bought a 2L of pop, a pack of smokes and some salad stuff. she was $1 short so guess what was put back?? it wasnt the pop or the smokes. i really dont like to judge people but there is no way that this lady should have had a kid in her responsibility.

Emmens
09-30-2005, 11:31 PM
i can't imagine either bro.

good discussion either way - i just like to see people take care of themselves if at all possible.

I agree, generally. I'm just saying that there are situations where they really can't do it on their own, and they're definitely not getting much help from the people who's job it is to be helping them.

-Mark

Emmens
09-30-2005, 11:33 PM
I love people who always blame it on the mega corporations. such easy targets.

the consoumer is to blame for whats on the shelves. the companies only fill demand. if the demand is for cheap crap then thats what they will make. If everyone was willing to pay more (because it costs more to make) for higher quality foods, there will be a company there to meet that demand.

I partially agree with you, but in this case your logic is flawed. You assume that the people we're discussing are able to pay more for higher quality foods. If they can't, what are they going to do, just not eat?

-Mark

Rat
09-30-2005, 11:35 PM
bwahhahah - i've never said you have to be 100% perfect and i don't expect other people to be either. you can eat shit once in a while, just not all the time. but if you do take the shit out of your diet, you will notice it. the last time i ate mcd's i felt like crap after. you don't develop a 50lb growth around your waist by eating a generally healthy diet with [b]moderate]/b] levels of sugar, fat and alcahol

i hardly drink - you know that, i don't drink coffee, lean cuts of meat are fine, my big thing is staying away from the sugar. in moderation it's not a problem. i could add an extra 30 minutes of exercise every day but i don't really need to a
we're talking about people that never exercise. we're talking about people s i get enough to be healthy as it is. and this is where your arguement falls apart.
that eat processed food all the time. there is no excuse for that.



Thats not my point Splinky im saying it would be as difficult for you to change your diet to the one I suggested as a fat person to change thiers to a more balanced diet. You sit in judgment of others but cant even do somthing on par on what you think these people should do.

syncro
09-30-2005, 11:38 PM
I love people who always blame it on the mega corporations. such easy targets.

the consoumer is to blame for whats on the shelves. the companies only fill demand. if the demand is for cheap crap then thats what they will make. If everyone was willing to pay more (because it costs more to make) for higher quality foods, there will be a company there to meet that demand.

everybody shares in the blame and the big agricos are a part of the problem. i never said they were the entire problem.

we are a consumeristic society, and until that changes for the better we will continue to rape and pillage this planet and ourselves till there is not much left.

Rat
09-30-2005, 11:41 PM
I partially agree with you, but in this case your logic is flawed. You assume that the people we're discussing are able to pay more for higher quality foods. If they can't, what are they going to do, just not eat?

-Mark


how is that a company that makes twinkies fault.



They make cheap food that can sit on a shelf for years, dont want it dont buy it. If its all you can afford its still not the company that made the shits fault.

the flying moose
09-30-2005, 11:42 PM
ever had real OJ? it is so fucking good. go to a juice place and order one up (or an apple carrot) and you will barely be able to swallow grocery store "juice" after that

or just go buy a juicer. i bought one for $80 from London Drugs and i can make fresh juice anytime with whatever fruits or veggies i have laying around.

syncro
09-30-2005, 11:52 PM
Thats not my point Splinky im saying it would be as difficult for you to change your diet to the one I suggested as a fat person to change thiers to a more balanced diet. You sit in judgment of others but cant even do somthing on par on what you think these people should do.

ok i see what you're saying. i'm not sure if i can agree with your example. i think an on par example would be:

me: having ice cream once per week instead of 3-4 times
"them": starting a fitness program by doing 15 minutes of gentle exercise 3 times per week.

mrraulduke
09-30-2005, 11:54 PM
It Is The Agrico's Fault For The Way They Market The Seeds To The Farmers.in The Old Days A Farmer Would Buy Seeds, Grow Crops And Harvest Seeds For Next Year. Now Because Of The Genetic Engineering And Intellectual Property In The Seeds These Days, And The Patents Held By The Companies, Farmers Are Not Allowed To Re-use Seeds From The Crops That They Grow. They Have To Buy Seeds Every Year. And The Agrico's Have Such A Hold On The Market In The States That The Variety Of Foodstuffs Being Grown Is Shrinking Every Year, Reducing The Biodiversity Of The Crops Grown In America....and This Is All Due To Profits And Corperate Greed. Is This The Consumer's Fault? Maybe...we Could All Buy Organic, Or From Local Independant Farmers. But I Tthink This One Rests Mostly In The Corperations Hands.

syncro
09-30-2005, 11:55 PM
how is that a company that makes twinkies fault.



They make cheap food that can sit on a shelf for years, dont want it dont buy it. If its all you can afford its still not the company that made the shits fault.

there are low-cost healthier alternatives besides twinkies and other junk type foods

you will have to spend more to eat really well.
you may have to spend more to eat well.
you can spend the same and eat better than fast food junk

three sheets
09-30-2005, 11:58 PM
It Is The Agrico's Fault For The Way They Market The Seeds To The Farmers.in The Old Days A Farmer Would Buy Seeds, Grow Crops And Harvest Seeds For Next Year. Now Because Of The Genetic Engineering And Intellectual Property In The Seeds These Days, And The Patents Held By The Companies, Farmers Are Not Allowed To Re-use Seeds From The Crops That They Grow. They Have To Buy Seeds Every Year. And The Agrico's Have Such A Hold On The Market In The States That The Variety Of Foodstuffs Being Grown Is Shrinking Every Year, Reducing The Biodiversity Of The Crops Grown In America....and This Is All Due To Profits And Corperate Greed. Is This The Consumer's Fault? Maybe...we Could All Buy Organic, Or From Local Independant Farmers. But I Tthink This One Rests Mostly In The Corperations Hands.
...and we all know that the corperations are going to do whats best for joe foodstamp in Clear Lake,California........

In the big picture......its all gone too far.....the fat people we are talking about are just another sign that we are officially screwed....no joke.....live it up while you can.

Rat
10-01-2005, 12:03 AM
45 minutes of brisk walking isnt going make them thin. its a great place to start yes but in the end your asking for a dramatic change in lifestyle. All im saying thats not as easy as sounds.

three sheets
10-01-2005, 12:05 AM
45 minutes of brisk walking isnt going make them thin. its a great place to start yes but in the end your asking for a dramatic change in lifestyle. All im saying thats not as easy as sounds.
Exactly...easy for you and me because we're not morbidly obese.......I don't think any of us could really understand the lives of these people.

syncro
10-01-2005, 12:13 AM
45 minutes of brisk walking isnt going make them thin. its a great place to start yes but in the end your asking for a dramatic change in lifestyle. All im saying thats not as easy as sounds.

it's a start to a new lifestyle. i'm not asking these folks to change thigs overnight as that is completely unrealistic. but you have to start somewhere. in the end a moderately healthy diet and moderate amounts of exercise will make you healthy. i never said these people need to be thin - just healthy, which is a lot better off than they are now. as long as you don't partake in larger quantities of unhealthy foods you'll be fine.

as i recall i seem to remeber you mentioning somewhere that you need to cut back on the beer as you drank way to much this summer. that's the type of shit i'm talking about.

syncro
10-01-2005, 12:14 AM
Exactly...easy for you and me because we're not morbidly obese.......I don't think any of us could really understand the lives of these people.

you'd be surprised. i've work with clients that get winded walking up a one flight of stairs.

syncro
10-01-2005, 12:15 AM
rat, just for you

http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?p=1157343#post1157343

Pedro2005
10-01-2005, 12:38 AM
...feel free to shove it right back up your ass.

:)

Sorry man, I just checked, my butt-hole is too small...

I will try again, after I take a poo...


Pedro

Silk
10-01-2005, 12:39 AM
reading through everyones posts, figure I will share with you all a glimps of how it can happen "eeek even here in Canada"

I grew up in a small town in Quebec, we lived on a dairy farm and both parents had major substance abuse problems. This was what ALL the money was spent on. I kid you not I used to eat fucking dog food I was so hungry growing up. The reason also why I moved out as soon as I had the chance.

Fast forward - out of University, 2 jobs almost no time for sleep or anything else. I had no time for cooking good food or thinking about excerise. I was a freaking zombie and getting fat fast.

Today - good job with good pay, I have time to do all the excersise I want and can spent time making good food/health choices.

the flying moose
10-01-2005, 12:44 AM
i think the best thing for a person who has no time to cook is a slow cooker. i used to make a giant pot of chili or a giant pot of stew and freeze it for the week. every night would be a bowl of chili or stew that was healthy and took no more than 2 minutes to heat up.

syncro
10-01-2005, 12:49 AM
reading through everyones posts, figure I will share with you all a glimps of how it can happen "eeek even here in Canada"

I grew up in a small town in Quebec, we lived on a dairy farm and both parents had major substance abuse problems. This was what ALL the money was spent on. I kid you not I used to eat fucking dog food I was so hungry growing up. The reason also why I moved out as soon as I had the chance.

Fast forward - out of University, 2 jobs almost no time for sleep or anything else. I had no time for cooking good food or thinking about excerise. I was a freaking zombie and getting fat fast.

Today - good job with good pay, I have time to do all the excersise I want and can spent time making good food/health choices.


quebec isn't canada

three sheets
10-01-2005, 12:50 AM
quebec isn't canada
rotflmaobbq...........mmmmmm....bbq.........

Silk
10-01-2005, 12:54 AM
quebec isn't canada


yeah true, and the dog food is much better also :)

mattj
10-01-2005, 01:18 AM
noone ever said juice is bad for you.

frozen concentrate is not juice. not at all

not only is it pasturized which kills just about all the good stuff in it, but then the sugars are extracted from the water.

all that is left of that orange (if we are talking OJ) is sugar water and a bit of colour, along with some almost unuseable vitimans

i know juice is good for ya, a few years back i lost 18 pounds from having only fresh juice before noon (then eating regular after noon) the pounds just shed off. i can't seem to get back on the kick though

source please

Butters
10-01-2005, 01:21 AM
A long time ago (maybe 15 years), I remember watching a news documentary on poverty in Canada. They were following this one family that had three kids and the parents were complaining about how they only had $0.73 per meal per kid, so all they ate was Kraft Dinner with ketchup and cereal (fruit loops and what not), every meal, every day. But there was not one scene that both parents didn't have a lit cigarette hanging out of there mouths. I just remember thinking they have to at least smoke a pack a day (minimum).

This would translate into $6.57 you spend a day on your kids food and at least $12 a day on cigarettes. I found it hard to take their critisism of society and the goverment seriously, when their own decision making was so flawed.

Don't know why that always stuck with me. Never knew why the journalist didn't ask the question either, I quess it would have poked holes in the story she was trying to portray.

three sheets
10-01-2005, 01:24 AM
^^^^ apparently,we could eat a lot better if smokes were cheaper.

mattj
10-01-2005, 03:21 AM
Great thread. Reading it occupied my whole day at work (except for the times when I, you know, worked...). Silk, that's a great story. Congratulations, but I think the complaint Mark (why does everyone call him "Splinky"?), Rat, Pedro, and others have is that many obese people don't seem intersted in doing whatever it is you did between "fast forward" and "today". That is the main problem with obesity that is being dissected here - that it seems to the majority of non-obese people that the obese people seem to be content with their situation.

This is especially obvious when you observe the behaviours of obese people in your own society. The fat families going go-karting instead of hiking, eating at McDonalds as a family instead of making dinner at home (ever tried to feed a family at McD's? You're looking at at least $25-$30, I can cook healthy for my wife and I for a week on that budget - a family with hungry active kids I could do 2 days at least), and the chronic lethargy. Why are these people content letting their lives be like this? That is the question that still has not been discussed or postulated on.

Look again at Silk. He was right there too. But he pulled himself out of that with his will power. I'm sure there were some opportunities that many don't get but there is a HUGE number of people who are content with ruining their lives with obesity. Why? Same question for smokers, alcoholics, drug-abusers, for that matter. It's all just different forms of suicide, and suicides that take a different time to be carried out...


-m

gearwh0re
10-01-2005, 04:22 AM
source please
http://www.thegardendiet.com/abouttgd.html

http://www.newworldhomecooking.com/pages/white.html

http://www.seedsofhealth.co.uk/articles/milk_history_evolution.shtml

http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/history/biographies/louis_pasteur.htm

http://www.mercola.com/2003/mar/26/pasteurized_milk.htm


this one is wacko and anti juice in general, but that wont apply to "real" juice

http://www.nal.usda.gov/wicworks/Sharing_Center/PA/Child_Obesity_part4.pdf

i will let you cover the concentrate part

gearwh0re
10-01-2005, 04:32 AM
the flip side (not everyone agrees with me)

http://www.nationaldairycouncil.org/nationaldairycouncil/frequentlyaskedquestions

i once read that saying that pasteurization kills only the bad bacteria is like saying you can drop a bomb on a city and it will only kill the bad people, leaving the innocent unharmed

JCL
10-01-2005, 05:41 AM
frozen conc. juice is way less expensive than soda

if you eat healthy you need less food. in reality you starve your body of nutrition when you eat a diet of junk.

water is free out of a tap

there is no excuse for being fat or obese, esp not poverty.

the issue is nutrition education. that and people being lazy about their food choices and simly going for the taste of sugar and fat.


This thread should have ended here.

switch
10-01-2005, 08:56 AM
A couple points.

When you see scenese from New Orleans, there are a lot of skinny/lean/muscular people in them. Not everyone is huge.

Some people just have a propensity for obesity.

The climate has a lot to do with obesity. It's pretty hard to get out and exercise when it's 95F and 95% humidity.

The culture has a lot to do with obesity. Foods like fried chicken, chicken fried steak, cornbread, etc., are a stape and have been for the longest time. Blaming it on a steady fast food diet is wrong.

What's the deal with juice from concentrate? What's bad about it? If it's concentrate, with no added sugar (unsweetened), what difference is there between the concentrate and juice that hasn't had the water removed?

BrianPark
10-01-2005, 11:58 PM
i have a juicer collecting dust that i REALLY need to take out
You could just give it to me. ahaha

Faithless
10-02-2005, 04:11 AM
4. you need to splain this one my friend. there is no excuse for being overly fat or obese. even the small percentage of people that are predisposed to carrying extra fat don't need to weigh 300lbs.

Some people have thyroid problems.

BrianPark
10-02-2005, 04:14 AM
ahahahahahahahaha

damian
10-02-2005, 04:26 AM
Your hungry, you eat... Whats there not to get?

Adam West
10-02-2005, 04:30 AM
Your hungry, you eat... Whats there not to get?
i dont know about you but i stop eating when im full..

Faithless
10-02-2005, 04:30 AM
ahahahahahahahaha

It was half sarcasm half truth.

I guess you've never met someone with a thyroid problem?

Scott C
10-02-2005, 04:33 AM
It was half sarcasm half truth.

I guess you've never met someone with a thyroid problem?

He was laughing at the fact that you obviously didn't read the whole thread.

damian
10-02-2005, 04:35 AM
i dont know about you but i stop eating when im full..

Alot of people dont stop eating untill thers nothing on the table. When you can only afford so much food, you dont let any of it go to waste.

Tom P
10-02-2005, 04:36 AM
Some people have thyroid problems.

Key word some.

7% of the US has hypothyroidism. more than 57% of American adults are overweight. So what happened to the other 50%?!

crazy stats...More than 60 percent of Americans aged 20 years and older are overweight. One-quarter of American adults are also obese

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/o/obesity/stats.htm

Adam West
10-02-2005, 04:37 AM
Alot of people dont stop eating untill thers nothing on the table. When you can only afford so much food, you dont let any of it go to waste.
... you can eat food a day later nothigns gunan happen to it..

Zaskar
10-02-2005, 04:43 AM
my sociology professor was explaining how obesity among natives here is a big problem as well because many arent fully educated in proper eating. sometimes the cheapest foods (such as pasta etc) arent healthy to eat all the time and result in obesity.

its not just a southen trend

damian
10-02-2005, 04:44 AM
Yah but its ridiculous to expect so much from these people. You guys comment on this from your relax lower mainland perspective. Its nothing like that down there. Do you think if they ate less they would be able to afford their own home and move out from their trailer parks? There is only so little you can do, if eating makes you happy, then so be it. Dont expect more out of these people then you would out of your self.

drunken_duncan
10-02-2005, 04:46 AM
Some people have thyroid problems.

I am one of those people..

It's easily treatable, take a pill a day to get your levels right, and your fine. A little bit harder to get in shape, but whatever.

Adam West
10-02-2005, 04:47 AM
Yah but its ridiculous to expect so much from these people. You guys comment on this from your relax lower mainland perspective. Its nothing like that down there. Do you think if they ate less they would be able to afford their own home and move out from their trailer parks? There is only so little you can do, if eating makes you happy, then so be it. Dont expect more out of these people then you would out of your self.
or maybe you expect to little....

damian
10-02-2005, 05:01 AM
or maybe you expect to little....


Bullshit. Typical comment from someone who is better off then they are.

Adam West
10-02-2005, 05:03 AM
Bullshit. Typical comment from someone who is better off then they are.
...well no argument there.

HIBuLlitT
10-02-2005, 05:08 AM
foodstamps should be regulated by a law that dictates no smokes are to be bought with them....

There is a law, and the store gets in big trouble if they are caught. The issue is that you can buy ny steak w/ foodstamps, and ice cream w/ food stamps. That's what pisses me off here.

ChunkyMonkey
10-02-2005, 07:57 AM
my sociology professor was explaining how obesity among natives here is a big problem as well because many arent fully educated in proper eating. sometimes the cheapest foods (such as pasta etc) arent healthy to eat all the time and result in obesity.

its not just a southen trend
True, obesity among native North Americans is on the rise. Think it's because of traditional foods? Thing again. It's the new high fat fast food diet wave that's hitting the west.

Picture a typical Hawaiian adult male (yep, there're natives too). About 225-250 lbs right? Big strapping gents. Take a look at pictures of native Hawaiians from the turn of the centrury. They were very lean & and not nearly as broad in the shoulders. Hawaii just happens to be the number one consumer of Spam. Coincidence? I don't think so, and most nutritionists agree

Their traditional main course staple of poi has been relegated to a side dish. You would have to consume 17 cups of poi to get 2000 calories. You only need 1.5 cups of Spam for the same caloric intake.

BTW, this was a great thread until the typical NBR post whores came into the picture (NOT talking about you Zaskar).

switch
10-02-2005, 09:24 AM
Picture a typical Hawaiian adult male (yep, there're natives too). About 225-250 lbs right? Big strapping gents. Take a look at pictures of native Hawaiians from the turn of the centrury. They were very lean & and not nearly as broad in the shoulders. Hawaii just happens to be the number one consumer of Spam. Coincidence? I don't think so, and most nutritionists agreeSo what you're saying is that Spam increases your shoulder width? :S

The Hawaiins are Polynesians, who happen to be big. Ever see the guys from Samoa?

You cannot take a race of people that are physically big, put them on a different diet while having them live a more sedentary lifestyle, and not have an obese group as the result. The African Americans that you see on TV - the ones that are so "fat" - are descendants of American slavery. Their ancestors came from eastern Africa, and were taken because of their physical size.

syncro
10-03-2005, 07:25 PM
http://www.thegardendiet.com/abouttgd.html

http://www.newworldhomecooking.com/pages/white.html

http://www.seedsofhealth.co.uk/articles/milk_history_evolution.shtml

http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/history/biographies/louis_pasteur.htm

http://www.mercola.com/2003/mar/26/pasteurized_milk.htm


this one is wacko and anti juice in general, but that wont apply to "real" juice

http://www.nal.usda.gov/wicworks/Sharing_Center/PA/Child_Obesity_part4.pdf

i will let you cover the concentrate part

its true because i read it on the internet

syncro
10-03-2005, 07:33 PM
A couple points.

When you see scenese from New Orleans, there are a lot of skinny/lean/muscular people in them. Not everyone is huge.

Some people just have a propensity for obesity.

The climate has a lot to do with obesity. It's pretty hard to get out and exercise when it's 95F and 95% humidity.

The culture has a lot to do with obesity. Foods like fried chicken, chicken fried steak, cornbread, etc., are a stape and have been for the longest time. Blaming it on a steady fast food diet is wrong.

What's the deal with juice from concentrate? What's bad about it? If it's concentrate, with no added sugar (unsweetened), what difference is there between the concentrate and juice that hasn't had the water removed?


obeseity and overfatness is not about lack of exercise, culture, the climate or a propensity to store fat. while all these things can contribute to being overfat they are not the cause. fatness is all about food choices and the quantity of food you eat.

syncro
10-03-2005, 07:34 PM
i dont know about you but i stop eating when im full..

a big part of the problem - knowing when to stop. stopping when you're "full" and stopping when you've taken in enough food energy and nutrition are two different things.

switch
10-03-2005, 11:46 PM
obeseity and overfatness is not about lack of exercise, culture, the climate or a propensity to store fat. while all these things can contribute to being overfat they are not the cause. fatness is all about food choices and the quantity of food you eat.That is wrong. A few years back, I wanted to loose some weight. A dietician gave me an outline of what I could eat and how much of it I could eat. I combined that with exercising quite vigorously 6 times per week (workouts, playing soccer/hockey/basketball, etc.).

After one month, at a consumption of 1200 calories per day, about 24 days of one or more hour exercises, and 60 hour work weeks, I gained 5 pounds!!! My body fat percentage did not decrease.

There are physiolical factors that govern body fat storage.

syncro
10-03-2005, 11:58 PM
That is wrong. A few years back, I wanted to loose some weight. A dietician gave me an outline of what I could eat and how much of it I could eat. I combined that with exercising quite vigorously 6 times per week (workouts, playing soccer/hockey/basketball, etc.).

After one month, at a consumption of 1200 calories per day, about 24 days of one or more hour exercises, and 60 hour work weeks, I gained 5 pounds!!! My body fat percentage did not decrease.

There are physiolical factors that govern body fat storage.

its not wrong. if you want to loose excess fat combining diet and exercise will produce better results than just a healthy diet. losing excess weight can be done with just a good diet, but it will take longer.


your problem was 1200 cal a day was most likely too restrictive for your activity level, which probably produced the opposite results you were looking for. if your body is starved for calories it will slow down your metabolism. this is the problem with yo-yo fad dieters and why they typically gain more weight after their diet is over than they lost in the first place.

Pedro2005
10-04-2005, 12:00 AM
After one month, at a consumption of 1200 calories per day, about 24 days of one or more hour exercises, and 60 hour work weeks, I gained 5 pounds!!! My body fat percentage did not decrease.


How tall were you? How much did you weigh starting out? And what was your body fat percentage?

No offence but unless you were some skinny dude (with low body fat percentage) who simply gained 5 pounds of muscle that is extremely difficult to beleive.

Pedro

Tom P
10-04-2005, 12:01 AM
After one month, at a consumption of 1200 calories per day, about 24 days of one or more hour exercises, and 60 hour work weeks, I gained 5 pounds!!! My body fat percentage did not decrease.

wow thats a not a lot of calories/day. Was the increased weight not related to increased muscle mass? as muscle weighs more than fat.

Emmens
10-04-2005, 12:07 AM
I am one of those people..

It's easily treatable, take a pill a day to get your levels right, and your fine. A little bit harder to get in shape, but whatever.

Yeah. Geez. Dumb people and their lack of medicare.

-Mark

switch
10-04-2005, 01:34 AM
your problem was 1200 cal a day was most likely too restrictive for your activity level, which probably produced the opposite results you were looking for. if your body is starved for calories it will slow down your metabolism. this is the problem with yo-yo fad dieters and why they typically gain more weight after their diet is over than they lost in the first place.Mark, you passed the test. ;)

switch
10-04-2005, 01:35 AM
How tall were you? How much did you weigh starting out? And what was your body fat percentage?6'2", 215lbs, 17%.

syncro
10-04-2005, 01:51 AM
Mark, you passed the test. ;)


bwahahaa. hey, when it comes to health and fitness i know my shit - its my job.

Pedro2005
10-04-2005, 01:53 AM
6'2", 215lbs, 17%.

I guess I am apparently not knowledgable enough about diets and how the body reacts to them.

I must have failed the test :)

Thanks for the lesson.

Pedro

gearwh0re
10-04-2005, 02:01 AM
its true because i read it on the internetyou asked for a source, what did you want me to get a nutritionist to call you :lol: ??

talk to anyone that is not in the frozen juice biz and i am sure they would all agree, frozen concentrated juice and real juice are 2 different animals

seriously though, all mass debates aside. get a juicer or head to a place that makes real juice and order up an OJ or an apple carrot. SO FUCKING GOOD

the flying moose
10-04-2005, 02:02 AM
you asked for a source, what did you want me to get a nutritionist to call you :lol: ??

talk to anyone that is not in the frozen juice biz and i am sure they would all agree, frozen concentrated juice and real juice are 2 different animals

seriously though, all mass debates aside. get a juicer or head to a place that makes real juice and order up an OJ or an apple carrot. SO FUCKING GOOD

i like sunny delight. its orange colored and tastes like oranges. its good enough for me. same with tang.

syncro
10-04-2005, 02:03 AM
lol - i was just trying to make the point the frozen juice is not as bad as soda.

gearwh0re
10-04-2005, 02:06 AM
i like sunny delight. its orange colored and tastes like oranges. its good enough for me. same with tang.now with more chemicals :lol:

syncro
10-04-2005, 02:14 AM
http://www.thegardendiet.com/abouttgd.html

http://www.newworldhomecooking.com/pages/white.html

http://www.seedsofhealth.co.uk/articles/milk_history_evolution.shtml

http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/history/biographies/louis_pasteur.htm

http://www.mercola.com/2003/mar/26/pasteurized_milk.htm


this one is wacko and anti juice in general, but that wont apply to "real" juice

http://www.nal.usda.gov/wicworks/Sharing_Center/PA/Child_Obesity_part4.pdf

i will let you cover the concentrate part

bwahaaha

i just looked at all your "sources" and most of them deal with milk. i'n not a milk hater but don't think you want a lot of it in your diet.

the first juice guy is all about opinion and most of it is shit, at least the second one has some truth. yes pure juice has a lot of sugar in it, so does fruit. but juice does have good health benefits. you have to consider what type of juice and how much you drink. you could get fat eating celery if you ate too much. you're not supposed to drink juice like water, have 1 glass, not 3 or 4 per day

gearwh0re
10-04-2005, 02:23 AM
bwahaaha

i just looked at all your "sources" and most of them deal with milk. i'n not a milk hater but don't think you want a lot of it in your diet.

the first juice guy is all about opinion and most of it is shit, at least the second one has some truth. yes pure juice has a lot of sugar in it, so does fruit. but juice does have good health benefits. you have to consider what type of juice and how much you drink. you could get fat eating celery if you ate too much. you're not supposed to drink juice like water, have 1 glass, not 3 or 4 per day

the milk ones are valid as it talks about pasteurization
milk=pateurized
your "juice" = pasteurized.

i am obviously not gonna convert you, and i hope you know i am totally agreeing that juice has all sorts of health benefits

i lost a tonne of weight on a juice diet. you won't get that with anything in a can though as all the stuff that makes juice good for you is gone by that point

anyways, we could go back and forth about this forever. i have tried canned juice and all i ask is you try real juice. you will love it

and you can drink craploads of it. the high sugar content is far outweighed by the benefits, and it kickstarts your metabolism to way faster than usual and the pounds seem to melt away. before you know it you will be doing veggie juices and preaching to someone else about how great it is (thats what happened to me, i assume it happens to everyone?)

syncro
10-04-2005, 02:43 AM
i am obviously not gonna convert you, and i hope you know i am totally agreeing that juice has all sorts of health benefits

anyways, we could go back and forth about this forever. i have tried canned juice and all i ask is you try real juice. you will love it

and you can drink craploads of it. the high sugar content is far outweighed by the benefits, and it kickstarts your metabolism to way faster than usual and the pounds seem to melt away. before you know it you will be doing veggie juices and preaching to someone else about how great it is (thats what happened to me, i assume it happens to everyone?)

actually we do kinda of agree in a round-about sort of way. for people that wanna drop fat fast i tell em to eat nothing but fruit in the moring and to try abnd get some protein in. fruit smoothies are a great way to go.

HIBuLlitT
10-04-2005, 03:28 AM
Ok, sodas will help you loose weight, ok hear me out.
I call it the soda diet:

Drink lots of caffinated sodas makes you shit alot
Drink lots of sugary sodas will rot your teeth.
Drink lots of caffinated sodas makes you dehydrated.

So, the end result will be that your teeth will rot out and
you won't be able to eat solid food just smoothies that
you'll just shit out and you will loose weight in the end. :|

Anyone who uses the above weight loss program must
pay a royalty of $.50 per pound to me.

Or excersise, eat right and you will get healthier (that
advise free).

gearwh0re
10-04-2005, 03:32 AM
Or excersise, eat right and you will get healthier (that
advise free).
that is crazt talk