another guy gettin his cash on

[Dalifted1]

another guy in a lawsuit in our small town in ontario. first james leone and now this things look grim out in trails of the collingwood area
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050610/BIKEINSUR10/TPSports/Other

[switch]

It's an Intrawest locale. That should prove most interesting.

[Dalifted1]

ya for sure now the hill is not operated by intrawest just the village. I hear he is sueing because he was moved after his fall. But could make things intresting everywhere

[Alexey]

i hate people

[emeraldeyes_bc]

I heard tha the parents of the boy here in nanaimo are going to be taking action against the owners. I can understand that they are hurt that they lost their son, but people need to understand that these kids are going to find somewhere to ride no matter what they do. I think that it would be a whole lot more progressive if all these people would put their efforts into having designated spots that are built properly and kept up. so that these kids wouldn't have to sneak around and/or go off trying to build without any idea what they are doing.

[gooch]

I for one am glad that we don't have to be held responsible for our own actions.

[bcbud]

I have heard that his agrument is that they should have cancelled the race due to rain and that is why he got hurt, also that when he crashed the marshels and/or med staff moved him off the trail so the race could continue, fear of getting run over or what not. But I think that his insurnace company is telling himhe won't get his claim unless he sues everyone in site, makes me sick and every DH racer in ON is up in arms over this dude, but I can see his point if medical staff moved him without proper procedure.

[patrolskid]

hey budbc , i hear what you are saying there .

no one forced the guy to race , if he didn't think the conditions were safe , he shouldn't have left the start gate , and forfeited his entry fee .
strange how people always seem to find someone to blame AFTER the fact .

with respect to his condition , i make it a habit to not comment on things i don't know about , but i will offer this general information for any of you who ( god forbid ) encounter this kind of thing .
to exacerbate an already existing spinal injury , you have to EQUAL or EXCEED the force that caused the injury in the first place . that would amount to some pretty rough handling on the part of anyone trying to help , which seems pretty unlikely . if there was damage done during the initial crash , it was DONE . if you are faced with a choice between saving life or limb , you take life . that advice comes from a well respected neuro surgeon .
furthermore , given a situation whereby further serious injury may occur by leaving the injured party in place , the good samaritan act would / should protect anyone acting on behalf of the injured by removing them from danger .

[ES-OH-ES]

If you cannot take responsibility for your own actions, you should not partake in any sport where risk is a factor,which pretty much eliminates sports all together. I sucks to be injured, sucks even more to have life long damage. These people should be frowned upon by all members of society.

[bunny]

i'm not sure about the equal force to exacerbate an existing spinal cord injury. i know someone who was regaining feeling/movement of their legs hours after a horrible crash and was moved while IN the hospital and paralized and has been in a wheelchair since. in cases like that where there may have been negligence on the part of medical staff i can see suing. accidents are one thing and accepting responsibility is great. trusting that you will get proper care once injured is another. and no offense at all to the patrol crews but the quality of training/certification is pathetic from what i've seen.

[cadence220]

Sorry for the export all.:usa:

[Incorrigible]

Let's just give out free heroin to all the kids in elementary school instead of giving them bikes to ride. Oh wait, that's pretty much already on the table. The world has gone mad.

[whistler110]

What needs to happen now is that the politicians need to change the liability laws. If they don't get changed we can say good bye to most of the sports that have a chance for injury.

I agree that as a society we need laws to keep things from becoming dangerous but right now lawyers are deciding what we can and can't do on our own time. Things are getting out of control when liability waivers won't hold up in court anymore. If someone signs away their rights to sue because they know the sport has inherit risks then that should be it, no oh I want to sue now because I didn't expect "this" to happen.

I hate the way society has decided that it is always someone elses fault. GROW UP and take responsibility for your own actions, or do you need someone to dress you in the morning as well.

[ES-OH-ES]

Sorry for the export all.:usa:

That is pretty much it. Suing for your own poor actions is so american. I agree, liability waivers don't hold up in court, which is ridiculous. There are times when law suites a more than appropriate, but getting hurt while taking part in a sport that you love is your own fault and only the riders can make tha call. Sometimes people sue because of the change of lifestyle (eg having to be in a wheelchair therefore you need wheel chair ramps/lifts in your home and vehicle) can be extremely expensive, not including medical bills for the time spent recovoring and not being able to be a part of the work force. I for one do not feel that suing is appropriate when ones self is at fault, but sometimes it is the only way people can get by. On that note, no one needs millions of dollars because they are hurt. At the most lawsuits should cover medical bills and lost income for a period of time. After that you should be on your own.

[Dalifted1]

i have heard that he thought they should have cancelled the race due to rain but on the other hand i have a first hand witness who says he crashed before the rain even started

[switch]

Maybe we need to stick to less dangerous "sports", like lawn bowling and shuffle board.

[ghostrider]

From the Globe and Mail....
It drives me crazy that young guys want to participate in a risky sport and don't foresee and accept the consequences."

So true, so true....

[KING-OF E-VILLE]

2 points,

1, each one of us risks breaking our neck and paralisis every time we ride on the shore, it is a flaw in the design of the human body. our necks just aren't designed for taking big hits. this is a risk we all must accept and be willing to live with before we decide to do this sport. I don't care if you racing, freeriding or what ever. If you are pushing the higher end of this sport, you have to know that this is a very real outcome of a small mistake. That said, I think anyone who participates in this sport should not be allowed to sue for injuries. The moment you throw your leg over the frame and start down a rock struen mountain, your on your own.

2. As an ex-lifeguard and industrial first aid card holder, it is getting scarier and scarier to help people these days. It is getting to the point ( and I've had this conversation with other First Aid People ) where you are just hoping an accident doesn't happen near you cause you don't want to be involved due to the liability of dealing with an injury and then getting sued for it later. There is a really weird clause that lawyers can use too against First Aid people, and it goes something like this, "if you are trained in first aid, and are close to the accident or see it but don't get involved, you can be liable for not helping the injured person." So your dam'd if you do and dam'd if you don't. I wish we could just get back to a society where everyone takes responsibility for thier own actions, and if a person is trying to help you, than they are free from liability as a good samariton.

I understand if the first aid personel cause additional injury to the victim, then there is some level of responsibiliy, but if it was in the best intrest of the victim, and was an accident too, it shouldn't be a legal issue.

[aShogunNamedMarcus]

I understand if the first aid personel cause additional injury to the victim, then there is some level of responsibiliy, but if it was in the best intrest of the victim, and was an accident too, it shouldn't be a legal issue.

On a side note, if you're a first aider, yet the cert's expired, does that mean you should only help another first aider if ones around or just keep walkin on by?

[KING-OF E-VILLE]

as cold as it sounds, I think you should keep walking. without up to date certification, you could end up in more trouble if something goes wrong.

no seriously, help the person out, but split as soon as the profesional aid shows up. and don't give your real name to them.

[derwood]

Patrolskid,for what its worth,If I foul myself up on your mountain and its neccessary to tie a rope around my ankle and drag me to the infirmary behind a truck so I dont get pegged by some weekend warrior......by all means.

Boys and Girls.....some of the BEST first aid attendants in the world work on the mountains...

[patrolskid]

hey , thanks for the go - ahead there der . . . . .if i show up ( this ain't going to happen right ? ) just say , " it's me , derwood , i got yer roach clip " . . .. we'll put you IN the truck and head 'er out .

thanks for the commendations . . . it is a dirty job ( dirtier in the summer ) but somebody has to do it .

sorry bunny if you have had a bad experience somewhere , but we do what we can , where we are , with what we have .

" you stack , we pack " . some call it job security , but for what it is worth , i'd be just as happy if no one required our services .

it is my understanding that anyone , first aid certified or not , who can demonstrate that they believed they were acting in the best interests of an injured person will be protected by the good samaritan act , which is legislation designed to allow persons to do what they believe is right given the circumstances , and not worry about the " what if ? "
lee , care to comment ?

[LeeLau]

THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE. I was just curious

http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/stat/G/96172_01.htm

Look at this

1 A person who renders emergency medical services or aid to an ill, injured or unconscious person, at the immediate scene of an accident or emergency that has caused the illness, injury or unconsciousness, is not liable for damages for injury to or death of that person caused by the person's act or omission in rendering the medical services or aid unless that person is grossly negligent.

You have to screw up really badly. "gross negligence" might mean something like disembowelling someone while you're cutting up a bandage for them

but then:

Exceptions

2 Section 1 does not apply if the person rendering the medical services or aid

(a) is employed expressly for that purpose, or

(b) does so with a view to gain.

So I don't know if it applies to patrollers. Then you guys would have workplace insurance for that. It would definitely apply to EMTs, nurses, doctors.

Think about how absurd it would be if you weren't protected. Who would try to rescue someone from an avalanche or crevasse?

[derwood]

Derwood yells down to Lee:"you gonna sue my ass if you get hurt on the way up?"

Lee:"heck no!"

Derwood:"just in case,im lowering down a release I just drafted....If you can look it over,check for holes,amend it and sign it,I'll set up a rope system."

Lee:"F$#K YOU!!!!!"

[patrolskid]

thanks for digging that up lee .

what i get out of that is that no one should shy away from doing what they believe to be right , at the time , given the circumstances .

if you think your actions will either save life or limb , then do it . let the patients conscience worry about it later . . . . you did what was right at the time , sleep well knowing that .

[bunny]

patrolskid... that's why i put in no offense to the patrol crews. i think you guys do a great job with what you know (and you obviously have more training/experience than a lot).

my views came from a certification that i helped with and i had more knowledge than most of them combined just from my experience with being accident prone. in the scenarios we set up for them the "injured" person died in most cases. it's not any criticism of the patrollers. just that they aren't paramedics/doctors and imo in a lot of cases aren't properly trained for severe trauma cases.

that said any laws aside i couldn't NOT help. if someone thinks they can help someone that's injured i think it's awful that they should have to consider wether or not to provide treatment for fear they will be sued.

[HeadOverWheels]

I'm starting to feel lucky I live in Germany. The waivers are approved by the insurance companies here plus it doesn't matter what you do they have this pre approval of EVERYTHING called TUV, similar to DOT on helmets but it's for everything. IE. the Ride to the Lake had the course TUVed and the waivers were signed off by Lawyer FIRST. So it's not to say Lawyers don't get involved over here, it just means the dirty work is done first.

Come on Canada, follow that rule or Biking is going to have a pretty short history, maybe? Once the insurance companies all get a big claim, the parks could be done, OR the ticket prices will not justify the riding :stupid:

[ghostrider]

It is such a shame that it's actually easier to just walk by and claim ignorance, didn't see it, hear it, didn't know what was going on rather than be a nice person and help out. Being nice could get you in trouble!

That makes no sense to me at all..but, I don't need to get sued either, so if you get hurt, it's your own ass you need to worry about.

I'm outta here, didn't see nothing!

[methods]

2 points,

1, each one of us risks breaking our neck and paralisis every time we ride on the shore, it is a flaw in the design of the human body. our necks just aren't designed for taking big hits. this is a risk we all must accept and be willing to live with before we decide to do this sport. I don't care if you racing, freeriding or what ever. If you are pushing the higher end of this sport, you have to know that this is a very real outcome of a small mistake. That said, I think anyone who participates in this sport should not be allowed to sue for injuries. The moment you throw your leg over the frame and start down a rock struen mountain, your on your own.

2. As an ex-lifeguard and industrial first aid card holder, it is getting scarier and scarier to help people these days. It is getting to the point ( and I've had this conversation with other First Aid People ) where you are just hoping an accident doesn't happen near you cause you don't want to be involved due to the liability of dealing with an injury and then getting sued for it later. There is a really weird clause that lawyers can use too against First Aid people, and it goes something like this, "if you are trained in first aid, and are close to the accident or see it but don't get involved, you can be liable for not helping the injured person." So your dam'd if you do and dam'd if you don't. I wish we could just get back to a society where everyone takes responsibility for thier own actions, and if a person is trying to help you, than they are free from liability as a good samariton.

I understand if the first aid personel cause additional injury to the victim, then there is some level of responsibiliy, but if it was in the best intrest of the victim, and was an accident too, it shouldn't be a legal issue.

You don't have to practice your first aid, but you do need to make a quick phone call to 911. If you do practice your first aid, you have to do it right. But there is no obligation to put your training to practice.

[patrolskid]

hey bunny , no offence taken . first aid can be a complicated business if you try to dot all the ' i's ' and cross all the ' t's ' , which is what a lot of students do in a class / exam situation . however , in the real world . . . .

in my opinion , the main thing to remember is that nothing is going to get " cured " in the field , so you stabilize what you have to , monitor what you have to , and get yer patients' ass to the clinic as fast as you can .

there has been a study released not long ago that suggests that you are actually better off if a doctor / EMT doesn't show up , because they can tend to over treat at the scene , which takes away from the valuable time you should be using to get your patient to a medical facility , where they can do the real work .

your job as a first aider is to recognize the immediate problem / hazard , remove the patient from said hazard , stabilize what you can / must , and get them to a place where they can be treated .

sometimes the 911 call is the best and only thing you can do . . . .

[patrolskid]

one other thing bunny , i totally agree with you on this point : i couldn't NOT help .

maybe it is my little world , but any one i consider a friend feels the same way . if they see something that needs doing , they are going to get right in there and do it , and worry about any legal consequence later . . . . .