Straight Article

[Ashek]

Thats one of the best articles ive read in the past few months about this issue. Good on ya Cam and Juryn.

thats why i love the straight.

[brentomatic]

Thats one of the best articles ive read in the past few months about this issue. Good on ya Cam and Juryn.

thats why i love the straight.

:crybaby:

[Ashek]

haha, where are my trading cards! :P

[AnTi-TrAiL_nAzI]

"Richmond, on the other hand, is spending money to substantially expand its skills park on Steveston Road"

It is actualy at the south end of #2 road, i never knew there was a steveston road :S

But yeah good article, i love how ernbag didnt get totaly thrashed, just enugh was said to make him look bad.

[LOBOTIDULATOR]

"Richmond, on the other hand, is spending money to substantially expand its skills park on Steveston Road"

It is actualy at the south end of #2 road, i never knew there was a steveston road :S

But yeah good article, i love how ernbag didnt get totaly thrashed, just enugh was said to make him look bad.
nothin like good old steveston shrimp

[Smoke]

YEAH!!

Barb got a cover shot!

http://www.straight.com/images/Cover_1949.jpg

[playahata]

Favorite quote:

"That’s because there are no parking lots, just dead-end streets, and No Parking signs blanket the blocks leading up to the Mountain Highway access point. It can’t help but seem mean-spirited when you see the spacious driveways and double garages, though Juryn says he sympathizes with residents who have had family gatherings for which, because of mountain bikers’ cars, there was no parking left for guests"

Yeah, it always has struck me as kinda "mean-sprited". I live on Commercial, and most of the time I cant park RIGHT IN FRONT of my apt. coz of the shoppers. Sometimes I have to walk a couple of blocks (!).

I have to say, I do feel the residents pain if the bikers are acting the jackass; thats inexcusable in this climate. But if they are quiet, in-n-out, respectful, whats the problem???

Great article though; I thought it was quite even-handed.

That is a hell of a cover too! Nice work...

[Ispy]

Peter Morin is so cool it hurts. :woot:

Well written article. Send an e-mail to the Straight to thank 'em.

[Rexthespeedster]

I agree, that seems to be a well-researched, balanced and informative article. Very well written and it flows well. Excellent work!

-Rex

[TheGiggler]

for the lazy http://straight.com/section.cfm?id=50

[LeeLau]

Awesome article

[Putty]

North Shore news and that other rag we get on our doorstep should learn a lesson from the Straight IMO.

[Heatmizer]

Fantastic article !!

[bruiser d]

that was a great article.......................really enjoyed reading that.I wish i was on my bike now rather than being at work.

[Buck]

That was an awesome article, so much so I am about to post a link to it over on our state cycling website in Minnesota!

Thanks
L8R
Buck

[dirty deeds]

wow. finally a reporter worth his salt and willing to call Ernie on his bullshit rather than just printing his lies...

"I’m hearing from environmentalists and bear people that the trails [on Fromme] are being destroyed.” Crist could not name a specific group, however.

I was waiting for him to quote Vanderman.

An article like that blows the entire editorial integrity on the NS News and Outlook out of the water.

[TheGiggler]

An article like that blows the entire editorial integrity on the NS News and Outlook out of the water.


pretty much.

too bad the North Shore rags can't learn something...

[Troup]

haha, where are my trading cards! :P
what trading cards?
Good article

[brentomatic]

what trading cards?
Good article

Each Norco and NSMB.com Team Riders have their own hockey-style trading cards complete with a Denny's 2 for 1 coupon on the back.

Very tasty...

[Jaysin]

Each Norco and NSMB.com Team Riders have their own hockey-style trading cards complete with a Denny's 2 for 1 coupon on the back.

Very tasty...


Hammered the other night brent, went and experienced the Spicy Italian chicken melt?? I went through about 15 cups of water, no joke.

[sAFETY]

Great article, except there's one glaring error.

"(Pete) Morin's face, both jollly and peaceful, is only lightly lined, and he looks as fit as a 40 year old"

You'd be hard pressed to find a 40 year old in as good a shape as Old Pete. Hell, if you're in that sort of condition when you're 20 you'd be lucky!

[LeeLau]

they forgot to mention that he was chewing on a salad and mildly constipated - who luvs ya pete!

Great article, except there's one glaring error.

"(Pete) Morin's face, both jollly and peaceful, is only lightly lined, and he looks as fit as a 40 year old"

You'd be hard pressed to find a 40 year old in as good a shape as Old Pete. Hell, if you're in that sort of condition when you're 20 you'd be lucky!

[Sunday Rider]

cover shot - what trail is that stunt on?

[Rich Juryn]

Cover shot is an old Sterling Lorence shot of Barb Haley at the Woodlot. With Sterling in Utah it took us about a week to get a hi-res shot of this. Thanks to Sterl and his girlfriend who scanned the image late Sunday evening so that I could get it over to the Straight!

[SubPlop]

Sweet article. Sets the record straight.

cover shot - what trail is that stunt on?
Wondering the same thing.

chad

[S-Dawg]

Its good that the issue is getting out to the genral public, instead of just bikers.

[derwood]

excellent article.....but Richard.....please leave severed alone.

That would be like killing grandpa cause he's old and weathered!

[Rich Juryn]

Yeah, Yeah I know. The journalist Alisa put me on the spot and asked me for the name of a trail that was in really bad shape..... I was on severed about 3 weeks after the monsoons and it was really rough ..... that and being put on the spot, it was the only thing that I could think of.

[Smoke]

That's too bad, because it was one of the trails that held up quite well over the winter. The worst hit that I saw was the Hyannis Trail between Hyannis Point and the Fisherman's Trail. Which is ironic because it sees little bike traffic and was 'improved' by the DNV (or maybe the LSCR) a few years ago

[KING-OF E-VILLE]

I just want more info on this $500,000 parking lot.....

Where the f*** did they get that number.

I wrote this to the mayor of the DNV when I first hear that number. but I never got a reply.


i have edit'd it to protect names and to avoid boring anyone.....


Hello Mayor Harris.

Thank you for your choice in dealing with Mr. Crist request for a ban on Bikes on Fromme.

I understand this is a very sensitive issue for the district, and I appreciate how you are currently handling it.

My Name is ******, just so you know; I am the fellow that is maintaining the section of trail known as “the switchbacks” on Lower Griffen. It’s just above Mountain View Park. I believe you took a walk up there to review my work with Monica Craver this fall.

I am an avid rider, a trail builder, a member of the North Shore Mountain Biking Association, and a resident of Upper Lynn Valley. I have been riding the trails of Fromme and Seymore since 1992 and have been involved in their growth and maintenance for many of those years.

I love mountain biking, and feel it is a truly special sport. It allows access to the deep forest into places most hikers do not go, nor want to due to the step terrain, and it allows for an outdoor experience like no other. Often my friends and I are awe struck by the beauty of the forest of upper Fromme and we stop riding just to marvel at the nature around us. There is nothing like a morning ride in the haze of a low lying cloud with the sun beaming thru the trees. It is truly magnificent.

The main problem the MB community is facing is the misunderstanding of the sport. We riders are portrayed as crazy, thugs and reckless hooligans, when in fact many of us are Fathers, Mothers and active members of our community. I ride many of the black and double black diamond trails here on the shore, and could be considered an extremist, but I’m also a Dad, an Architect, a business and a Home owner in North Vancouver. I would also like to stress that most the trails in question are well above the average hikers range. I rarely see hikers above the 3rd switchback on the fire road on Fromme, which is where most the trails are. The average hiker/dog walker that Mr. Crist is trying to protect never ventures higher than the first switchback or the Baden Powel.

North Vancouver is world famous for its trails, and support for the sport. It has a great opportunity to manage this resource wisely and to profit from it. I have many friends that make a living off of this sport in North Vancouver. A close friend is the manager of the Deep Cove Bike Shop. I also know of several individuals, myself included who chose to buy homes in NV just to be closer to the trails.

I think it is very important for the district to understand the magnitude of the money these trails bring to the district. From bike sales and repair, food and drink sales in Lynn valley, Hotel accommodation for tourist, to even homes being purchased in the area. It is a resource the District should embrace, Manage and profit from. I am sure you are aware of the fame of these trails, they are ranked as some of the best trails in the world, and are on the must ride list for many people in the sport. While in the forest, weather riding of working the trails, I often meet people from other parts of the world who have come here just to ride the Famed North Shore. This includes individuals I have met from France (2 guys, they were living here for 3 months, bought bikes here and planed on selling them at the end of there trip) Japan (1 fellow, he was here for 6 months, living in an apartment in the valley, and riding every day.) and Germany (2 guys, both big (200lbs of more) they came for 2 weeks, and bought bikes here to take back to Germany with them.) these are people I have actually met, and right there is approx $20,000 in extra money in the community. The district needs to manage and market this resource like “MOAB” in Utah has.

I understand there are 2 main issues affecting mountain biking and the district.

1) Liability

2) Parking and Access near the trails.

I have some comments on both.

First, Liability.

What about a Riding Permit ($5.00 / season) that must be bought at a bike shop or at City Hall. It would have a full disclaimer printed on it, and it must be signed by the rider and carried at all times. If you are in the woods without your pass, you receive a monetary fine. (I understand that this would cost so money to implement and to Police, but you could set the annual fee such that it covers these costs.)

I talked to a lawyer friend of mine, and he felt that this would be a great idea for limiting the district Liability because you would have a signature from the participant stating that they understand and accept the risks of riding here, the disclaimer could also state that “the District does not build, maintain or accept any responsibility for the condition of the trails themselves”.

Secondly, Parking,

I read that the district had received and estimate of $500,000 for a 30 car lot on Fromme. This is ridiculous. It does not need to be anything fancy, and could be located anywhere above the gate, I strongly believe that if you pick a fairly flat area up around the first or second switchback, fall a few trees that are within the defined area of the lot and use them as retaining for the lot area, then use a cut and fill method to relocate most of the soil from the high site of the lot to fill in against the retained lower portion, top the whole thing with a couple of layers of gravel that you truck in, put up a parking meter, relocate the outhouses that are at the current drop of area, and your done for many years. This could not be more than 2 weeks work for a large excavator and bull dozer. I estimate this could be accomplished to $50,000. Not the $500,000 I read in the paper.

Please inform me of any ways I can help the District in furthering these ideas or issues.

[derwood]

E-Ville,

With knowing the area,I estimate I could build a 30 car lot up there for about $5,000 in equipment and falling costs.The big money lies in engineering.....est. $15,000 more for that.

[Rich Juryn]

I have already had conversations with Susan Rogers about doing a public - private partnership to do the parking lot(s?).
You bring together a bunch of the bike companies, interested corporate donors, in-kind suppliers of equipment, engineering etc and you could get this done for very little actual hard cost.
It is exactly what we are doing over at Inter River.
Susan has a list from me of about 15 prospects to get this going......Always takes more time than you want but the intention is there

[Ninja]

E-Ville,

With knowing the area,I estimate I could build a 30 car lot up there for about $5,000 in equipment and falling costs.The big money lies in engineering.....est. $15,000 more for that.Hahaha... "Equipment" Your Jeep doesn't fall under that catagory.

[derwood]

Hahaha... "Equipment" Your Jeep doesn't fall under that catagory.


right.....

I was thinking more along an EX200....no dozer needed with all the till in that area.

You can rent or sub these things you know....

[Neo]

good article. great cover shot!

[Tom]

Wasn't it $900,000 for two parking lots and the sidewalk for mountain highway? I didn't think much of it at the time, but that does seem ridiculously expensive.

Great article, it's nice to see some positive press once in a while!

[Sharon]

If I recall the cost breakdown from the Jan 31st council meeting it was:

$250,000 for a parking lot at the top of mt. why
$50,000 for sidewalk and road upgrades
$300,000 for Parking lot at the top of Dempsey/Braehmar
$100,000 for signage.

I'm missing some numbers but it came to ~$900,000 often rounded up to One Million.

Considering the cost of a skateboard park, grass fields etc this cost is well on par with the funds currently spent on other forms of recreation in the district.

Not to mention the District has spent relatively little funds on actual trail maintenance or the actual sport of mountain biking.

Currently all funds have been spent on alleviating resident concerns.

The NSMBA has received funding for new maps and kiosks on Seymour. We're not spending anything NEAR $100,000!!!!

If they really don't want to spend the money on a parking lot then they should implement parking BACK in the residential upper lynn area but DISTRIBUTE the parking spots so that there are 2-3 cars per block throughout the area.

Oh and Nice to read a well rounded positive news story on mountain biking for a change! Yes, Richard, you do have nice techy wear!

[butler]

the cover shot is the last stunt on the gate

[Tom]

If I recall the cost breakdown from the Jan 31st council meeting it was:

$250,000 for a parking lot at the top of mt. why
$50,000 for sidewalk and road upgrades
$300,000 for Parking lot at the top of Dempsey/Braehmar
$100,000 for signage.



$100,000 for SIGNS! How many signs were they planning on having made? I totally agree that these costs are on par with what the district is spending on other forms of recreation, but to me (and I'll be the first to admit I don't really know), these costs seem to be much higher than they should be...but I guess when they're "government contracts"...

btw, does anyone know what's happening with the ARSS anyways? Has there been any development since the parking lots were "kiboshed" and council spent 45 minutes debating the fact they needed another meeting and what it should be called ("shirt sleeve session")

[polytics]

That was a great article... well written... and it is nice to see it in a free paper with fairly major circulation.

[S-Dawg]

why cant they just clear out a few trees for a few cars to park. who needs a big paved lot? give us a descent ditch for all that matters, i cant imagen needing a lot that costs that much money.

[Heatmizer]

why cant they just clear out a few trees for a few cars to park. who needs a big paved lot? give us a descent ditch for all that matters, i cant imagen needing a lot that costs that much money.

Unfortunately it'll just never be that simple where governments are concerned.

It has to meet the approval of their environmental standards, insurance underwriters and a billion other neccessities blah blah blah....

Then every little bit of it that doesn't automatically go to the city workers has to be put up for bid.

Then there's the actual construction. We all know how many city workers it takes to look down a manhole, I can only guess how many it would take to build a parking lot.

Fact is that if there weren't all the rules in place then yes a half dozen people with chain saws and and other tools could clear a space big enough for a hundred cars in 1 day. 2 more days to properly grade it and check to make sure all the environmental T's are crossed, and you'd be done. That'll never happen.

[Sharon]

btw, does anyone know what's happening with the ARSS anyways? Has there been any development since the parking lots were "kiboshed" and council spent 45 minutes debating the fact they needed another meeting and what it should be called ("shirt sleeve session")

District staff is still working on some issues they were asked to address by Council.

It might go up before council sometime in May.

[synchro]

Thats one of the best articles ive read in the past few months about this issue. Good on ya Cam and Juryn.

thats why i love the straight.

i'd have to disagree. the article was good but not great - too many holes and a few inaccuracies. why was no-one from the nsmba interviewed? why was hoots not mentioned in the building of inter-river. was definitely displeased with the severed comment, esp as i did a lot of work on that trail last year to fix up some of the bad sections. there are far worse trails condition wise on the shore.

overall an interesting read, but not enough of the truth.

[TheGiggler]

Mark, all the severed comments can do is mean less people riding it... so it's all good there. because as we know, it's just chundered ;)

[jonny.zee]

was definitely displeased with the severed comment, esp as i did a lot of work on that trail last year to fix up some of the bad sections. there are far worse trails condition wise on the shore.

Yeah, I was a bit puzzled by the comments about severed because I find that trail to be in generally good shape and quite rideable. But I guess the point they were making is the drainage issue and the bottom part of the trail resembles a creek bed, which BTW, is fine by me.

Anyhow - it was you who fixed it last year? Thanks & nice job!

[Kootenay Hack]

I thought the article was great.

I'm not sure how much more positive it could get, really. I think it was good that it touches on many aspects of our community and our culture. If it was any more 'pro' mountain bike, people would think it was rigged.

I really enjoyed this article and it gave me shivers to see it on the cover of the Straight. This is the kind of press that will help the mtb culture and community as almost everyone I know reads the straight, especially those who don't ride. We need to remember that, because the article needs to be understood by people wwho don't ride too...... and they do understand, and they support our cause.

Thanks to all involved for this press. It gave me shivers reading it to think that we might be finally making some headway.

Sure, it could have said this and it could have said that. It also could've portrayed us and our political challenges quite poorly.

Props to everyone involved. Props to Hooty too! He's in there in spirit.... he's all over it actaully (if you know what he's up to). He is just the kind of guy to give credit to the mountain bike community rather than take credit personally.

Great work everyone! Woo hoo!!

[Sharon]

They did call me, but I guess I didn't say anything interesting enough or it was already said!

I was also surprised by the severed comment, but when it does rain it is a creek bed and it is pretty rutted and chundered.

[dirty deeds]

I wouldn't be too hard on Richard for saying Severed. Like he said, he was put on the spot and just spat out a name. He was probably kicking himself afterwards. It doesn't negate the work Mark did on it (don't take it too personal, bud). No big deal and doesn't take away from the hugely positive tone and well balanced perspective.

[KING-OF E-VILLE]

Fact is that if there weren't all the rules in place then yes a half dozen people with chain saws and and other tools could clear a space big enough for a hundred cars in 1 day. 2 more days to properly grade it and check to make sure all the environmental T's are crossed, and you'd be done. That'll never happen.

I totally agree, 5 days max.

I was climbing the access road the other day, and was looking for a viable spot to put a new lot. there is a relativly flat area just past the 2 switchback. if they put the parking on both sides of the road, then they could fall the trees to the downhill side to build a retaining wall with them, then leveled the area, moving dirt and boulders from the uphill side to fill in the lower side, bring in a boat load of gravel, smooth the place out, place concrete highway barriers around the perimeter. put in a ticket vending machine, and bam, you have yourself a parking lot. it wouldn't need to be any more glamorous than the construction method used for the drop off area they built last year. that area is built in the same manner and seems to meet the requirements of safty or else they would not be allowing it.

They may need to upgrade the road to the second switch, but that too could be done with a dozer, an excavator and a bunch of gravel. I don't see this whole thing costing more than $100,000. man, I'll put it together for $100,000 if I can keep the profit thats left over.

Oh Sharon, I love your Idea of re-introducing parking above coleman in selective locations. 2-3 car zones to help spread out the load until a better decision is made. Currently it is wacked, all the parking rules did was cause people to park in front of the folks that live on Coleman. I'd be right pissed if the district did that to me. they are basically saying the people above Coleman are better (or have more rights) than the people below coleman. its only a matter of time until those folks start screaming too.

I live above Coleman, and the parking issue is a pain in the ass. I have a permit so its not a problem for me. but I ahd a birthday party for me son when he turned 1, invited about 50 friends to rock the house, and everyone had to park illegally because i did not have visitors passes to give them. luckily no one got a ticket, but what a stupid solution. I hope they get rid of it soon. it is an inconveniance to all of us who live above colemen. every time my buddies come up to ride too. they can't just park outside my place. its lame. hope someone at the DNV reads this.

Do something about it. build us a lot and remove the parking rules above Coleman.