Slow down damn it!

[Oldfart]

If you're in some kind of a rush or like to bomb down Old Buck, slow down before you hit some one like me, pulse redlined seeing stars going up. Not to mention my dog, and the two hikers behind me. Stupid fucks. That shit gives all of us bad names and gets trails shut down. I have no idea why this has to be mentionned. You know who you are. You might have had full face helmets but clearly half a brain between the two of you.

[Neo]

If you're in some kind of a rush or like to bomb down Old Buck, slow down before you hit some one like me, pulse redlined seeing stars going up. Not to mention my dog, and the two hikers behind me. Stupid fucks. That shit gives all of us bad names and gets trails shut down. I have no idea why this has to be mentionned. You know who you are. You might have had full face helmets but clearly half a brain between the two of you.

w3rd. another reason i don't bother with seymour anymore - dumbass shuttlers like those guys.

(and no, i do not think everyone that shuttles is a dumbass, so don't go flaming me for that :rolleyes: )

[Sharon]

That's why the speed control gates are there.

Old buck and the section of baden powell from the powerlines to Old buck should NOT be ridden fast.

[Smoke]

That's why the speed control gates are there.

Old buck and the section of baden powell from the powerlines to Old buck should NOT be ridden fast.

Ummmm, Baden-Powell doesn't cross the powerlines.

[Sharon]

Ummmm, Baden-Powell doesn't cross the powerlines.

actually it does when it comes out of severed then goes down, crosses Old Buck and comes out onto Mt. Seymour Road before going down to deep cove.

[Incorrigible]

Have you changed your tune Dante??

[derwood]

the ONLY excuse is to meet NSSAR....otherwise a shoulder check is in order.

[Neo]

Have you changed your tune Dante??

:???: what do you mean?

[Incorrigible]

I thought you figured shuttling was for the weak. Was I wrong? Anyhow, sorry if I'm out of line!

[KeithD]

It was suggested to me that saying something only made the issue more public but since it is here ....

I have been hiking and riding Seymour for more than 15 years and two weeks ago, while hiking with my dog and my mother I was put in a dangerous position by three riders.

It was on Incline, we were coming up just before the trail that heads off to the Mushroom Parking lot. Three riders came down so quickly that I was concerned about taking any action for fear of spooking my already spooked dog and my mother (77 years old who had just fallen trying to get out of the way of the riders coming down). They passed within a foot of my dog and carried on.

This has not happened to me previously. I have defended riders against reports of hikers being spooked by such incidents. I have always thought the reports were over blown. This was way out of control. I am still mad. There is no way they could have stopped and I doubt they could have adjusted their trajectory.

Just as in the case of accidents where one wonders what could they have done differently, I continue to consider what I will do differently. They should have been slowed down or stopped.

I don't want to blow this out of proportion but it feels a lot like street racing but in this case WE do have the ability to enforce and take care of justice. On the streets we do not have control, the cops do. This is our realm.

I don't want to loose the right to ride the trails because of A**h***es. Look at Stanley Park. We used to be able to ride anywhere. Abuses by a few have resulted in restricted access to trails and painted lines on the walk ways.

Do we wait until someone is seriously hurt before we self police?

Any thoughts?

[amg]

Indeed. Think of the repercussions if someone HAD been hit, and injured.

What about the possibility of a volunteer bike patrol during heavy use periods (i.e., weekends, sunny evenings) similar to volunteer ski patrols? Is that feasible? Although unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much you could do even if you did catch someone riding out of control...

[Dantes Inferno]

Bike patrol for seymour sounds kinda nerdy. Look out! Here comes the "bike police"!

good idea but i doubt anything will happen. and if it did, the "bike police" would have no power to do anything except report it to the people who will close the trail.

[SkunkworkS]

Put up gates with small one rider wide openings with "speed gate" type stuff which forces the riders to slow down and sometimes completely stop in order to go through.

[SkunkworkS]

Signs or patrols won't help. But obstruction which prevents riders from going fast will.

[KeithD]

Speed gates aren't the solution. You would have to put them everywhere. That won't work. You know that you can get 'out of control fast' in a short period of time. Peer pressure will help. Turning people in is only an option if the jerks force it to a point where there is legislation against dangerous riding. It will unfortunately happen if it continues. If we allow that to occur we all loose. It sucks but it is true. The guys that ride that fast on difficult terrain are the elite. They know who they are and loads of other do too.

They are no different than the street racers that we would like to deal with on our roads.

[Sharon]

If I'm on a trail that I know mountain bikers are going to come down, I keep an eye out and either get out of the way, or if its a known hiking trail - like Old Buck, Incline or Bridle I yell out HELLO! Hiker ahead! and usually they slow down.

[switch]

It's not just Old Buck. There are riders who rip down the Empress reroute trail with total disregard for hikers, let alone bikers climbing up the trail. Some people are idiots - what can you do?

[Oldfart]

It can't be fixed. People do not understand the physics and optics of it. They think because they have 8 inch rotors that they can stop in time, but if you see some one at the last second, a persons reaction time probably won't allow him to hit the brakes soon enough. The rule is to go as fast as your vision will allow you see some one or something in time to avoid it. What if it is a deadfall? Just like on the Squamish highway. The so called Killer Highway. Nearly the accidents there are caused by driver error. Sure you have a sports car and it can go around that 50kph corner at 80k, but don't act all surprised when there's a jack knifed truck around the corner and you smoke into it while your foot is halfway between the gas pedal and the brake pedal. Same applies to riding a bike.

[corey@nsmb.com]

It's not just Old Buck. There are riders who rip down the Empress reroute trail with total disregard for hikers, let alone bikers climbing up the trail. Some people are idiots - what can you do?

The big bermed corners are pretty inviting, and they were not put there for climbing purposes. If any trail on Seymour is "inviting" high speed riding, that's it. BUT...riders need to be aware that we are sharing it with other users and it isn't a closed race track.

I am with you on your sentiments of people riding with disregard. I think OldFart really hits the nail on the head in his above post.

Some people are idiots. They exist in every sport and every facet of life. And, regardless of where they are, they always drive those who pursue their sport or activity with a functional brain absolutely crazy.

For so many of us, it's common sense. But there is always going to be that fraction who are just clueless.

Right of way should always be surrendered to the uphill rider and/or hikers (regardless of direction). People need to ride expecting (as OF said) to encounter any of the above around every corner, unless you are paying to race, which puts you on a controlled, closed course.

Personally, I like to slow and say "hello" to everyone I see out there...its great to see someone else out there enjoying what you are, on foot or two wheels, and to take a second to say hi, and acknowledge them and their having as much fun as you.

[parts]

General rule is people going uphill have the right of way over peeps coming down. For well-known hiking or multi-use trails this is a no-brainer and there is zero excuse for boming down too fast (regardless of how bichin' you &/or your rig are).

I think it's a different story on full-on mtb trails, that's where the onus is more on the person coming uphill (hike or bike). I know when I run the trails, I'm way more attentive when I'm on ones I normally bike.

Most peeps know when they've messed up, so stopping & apologizing etc can go along way towards keeping everyone civil too!

Sound reasonable?

[sleeper72]

how about a sign at the top that says "caution, hikers on trail" and one at the bottom that says "caution, bikes on trail". Sometimes people just need to be reminded. If it's a hiker from out of town, they really may not have a clue to be aware of bikes coming down the trial, and vice versa.

Isn't the purpose the the new Corkscrew trail (whenever that will be finished) to get riders off Incline, because it's supposed to be a hiking trail?

[sanrensho]

Speed gates aren't the solution. You would have to put them everywhere. That won't work.

Actually, (more) speed gates are an effective solution, but not the preferred one. It won't take long to happen if there are enough complaints from hikers and dog walkers.

[Putty]

empress strikes back should never be multi use trail.

[Neo]

empress strikes back should never be multi use trail.

agreed.

[Incorrigible]

Even a race course can have people blocking the trail due to accidents or marshalls in the way. It happens all the time during practices. Watch out and be courteous. Not that hard.

[Bryce]

some of this might be due to noobs - they don't always clue into the etiquette immediately and they're more likely to be riding down Old Buck instead of fun trails.

I admit that I rail the berms on Empress but the corners aren't blind so I don't see a problem. IMO, hikers always have the right of way on there. Trails like Boogeyman are another story

[Sharon]

I've ridden up the Empress Reroute while others have ridden down. If I hear a rider coming down I yell out to them.

I've never had a problem.

All riders at all times should be riding in control so they can stop. Especially on multiuse trails.

[Wayne P]

I always either slow down to a near stand-still or come to a complete stop off the side of the trail when I come upon a hiker or rider riding up. I always greet them and smile even if they are looking at me with hatred in their eyes. We should all do this. Its hard for someone to be angry at nice gestures.

Many times, they see me stopping and tell me to keep going in a nice way. A little positive give and take.

I see many riders riding on sidewalks when there's pedestrians walking on it. That bugs the hell out of me. So many kids do it. I will get up onto a curb if I have to, but I'll ride it very slowly. If I see a person walking I stop or get off the sidewalk completely.

We as cyclists have to be extra curteous in these situations. We can not add fuel to the fire - giving people reasons to dislike us.

Do you know who they were Andy?

[switch]

Climbers have the right of way. If you're descending, and someone is pedaling up, then get out of their way.

Hikers have the right of way over bikers.

Pretty simple rules.

[synchro]

how about a sign at the top that says "caution, hikers on trail" and one at the bottom that says "caution, bikes on trail". Sometimes people just need to be reminded. If it's a hiker from out of town, they really may not have a clue to be aware of bikes coming down the trial, and vice versa.

Isn't the purpose the the new Corkscrew trail (whenever that will be finished) to get riders off Incline, because it's supposed to be a hiking trail?

the new trail will only take bikers off the last part of incline, not the top 3/4. incline is a designated hiking trail and i really wish the cove map people would take it off their map. that would solve a lot of the problems.

[pete]

a gate at the top of the empress re-route with a large sign saying mulit use trail watch out for hikers might help. that way the riders would have to go slow enough to read the sign before dropping in.

[Oldfart]

Actually I think the right of way should change depending on the trail. If your riding, actually riding up, you should have the right of way. To state the obvious because some might not get it, because it's a hell of a lot easier to stop and start again when going down. However if it's a steep bit where it's impossible to ride up, or there are only a few rideable sections, I think the downhill rider should have the right of way. There it may be very difficult for the downhill rider to stop. But it is all about mutual respect. We share the trails and we should do what we can to continue that.