Somebody PLEASE open a decent shop downtown!

[sAFETY]

For the love of all that's holy, would somebody PLEASE open up a decent bike shop in the Vancouver downtown core!

The facts:

Vancouver is the fittest city in Canada, and one of the fittest in the world, and therefore a major consumer of fitness equipement like bikes
Vancouver has one of the most densely populated downtown cores in the world, and has been so for years. The development of Coal Harbour and Yaletown has only made it more desnely populated.
The average income of d/t residents is higher than anywhere in the province short of West Vancouver.


The Existing Choices:

Reckless Cycle - Only good if you're looking or seawall cruisers. Prices are very high. Service shop specializes in cruisers and doesn't do high-end bike repairs. I've got my beef with their nickel-and-diming ways, but it really just comes down to the fact that they're not even close to what the serious biker (road or mountain) needs.
BSP - Sure you can buy stuff there, but their selection is rather small and their service department (save for one person that I don't think is there anymore) is sub-par. A friend of mine took in his Giant Team DH there and they told him that nobody on staff had ever worked on one (despite the fact that they sell them and had one in the showroom). I also took a slider there 2 months ago and nobody there had ever even removed springs from a sherman. Again, not a burn on the shop or the people that work there, but high end bikes just aren't their thing.
Simon's - Hate to say it, but their service dept. is the most experienced in the city in spite of the horror stories we've all heard/gone through. Selection is limited to what distributors are putting on a firesale though.


So with all of the money in the city, all the bikers that make the d/t core their home, and the huge vacum for good knowledgable service (this goes for road and mtn bikes) is there no high end shop? Something like Cove or OnTop, but not requiring a 40minute drive to get to.

Edit - I accidentally said Cyclepath when I should have said Reckless Cycle. I've got no beef with Cyclepath aside from their lack of a downtown location.

[Heatmizer]

Think the biggest problem is going to be that it's downtown. Lease prices are also probably the highest in Canada, and you still have to pay your staff the same or better than what other shops do. So either you get high prices, underpaid and under motivated staff, or take the loss out of your own back pocket.

Anyone downtown have the dollar figures for leasing downtown? Would be interesting to know what it would cost to set up a place the size of the new Cove store or JH downtown. Since you want lots of selection you'll need a store that size. But it'll probably cost a new car every month in floor space.

[S-Dawg]

How about dizzy cycles or west point cycles, i no there not right down town, but they sound better than those shops, or just take a quick hop over the sea bus and go to cove or john henry, however i still agree about the lack of descent bike shops actually in vancouver, its ridiculous u need to drive to get ur bike fixed at a place u trust

[sAFETY]

Dizzy is close, but still a ways away, WestPoint is quite a haul, you might as well go to the shore.

I think the best bet is for some place like Cove that already has a decent sized shop, to open up a d/t location with a well stocked service dept, enough bikes for the showroom floor, and a van that did regular trips between locations. That way they could keep the selection low and not have to have as much space, and be able to get any part in stock at the other location in the downtown shops by the end of any day.

[Rosscofat]

its so true :( but $$ down there is wow;.

[sAFETY]

Just think of all the people that not only live downtown, but who work downtown as well. The convenience of dropping off your bike on the way into work and picking it up on your lunch break or after work would make it a much better alternative even for shore residents who have to do all their running around after work and on weekends (when they should be riding instead of dealing with mechanical issues).

[gearwh0re]

bsp service takes care of ya

simons sevice dept is great. simon has no social or customer service skills. inventory is limited

cove and john henry charge too much for EVERYTHING

it is a tough go of it, not just downtown, but in greater van as a whole

[KenN]

Uh, don't forget, Dizzy has a store in Kits on 4th near Burrard.

Kn.

[fr33k]

Ya i here ya . had some good friends who owned a shop in van for a few years. they had some hard times making a go of it. Finaly shut it down and went to work in other profesions. its hard to compete with the big guys. Wholesalers wont give you a break, customers want everything cheaper then the next guy . So what do you do ? stock cost's a heap of cash. people want every bike part in the world ever made in stock. Its a no win situation.

[Faithless]

wanst there one that shutdown?

i forget the name but they were open since 1918 or something and specialized in santa cruz?

Personally I wouldn't mind paying extra, if my bike was fixed efficiantly, and the salesperson cared abo[ut makjing a sale, like they wanted your buisness.

[Chief]

cove has great prices !
to get the good deals you have to commit to a shop then you get the deals !

[Dantes Inferno]

haha safety, who has got the money to lease space d/t. you said it yourself, its very wealthy area, therefore pricy property.

[gearwh0re]

cove has great prices !
to get the good deals you have to commit to a shop then you get the deals !thats even worse. i and joe average pay more so "bros" can get deals.

cove is SILLY overpriced on alot of shit. 3 years ago when giro mad maxs came out they were around 200 at most places, 150 at simons, and 330 at cove :lol:

good location if you need a cheap repair on the fly, but for anything more than $20 take your money elsewhere

john henrys is pretty pricy on alot too, but will ALWAYS beat the cove on sticker price

right now dianese upper armour - $400 at JH $550 at cove.

roach leg armour $120 at cove, $109 at john henry.

[MudPie]

i've had some pretty good service off the guys in bike doctor, opposite MEC on broadway.
everytime i've been there they've taken their time, tried to be accommodating pricewise, and generally helpfull as you would expect from avid bikers - which i know they are

[Chief]

thats even worse. i and joe average pay more so "bros" can get deals.

cove is SILLY overpriced on alot of shit. 3 years ago when giro mad maxs came out they were around 200 at most places, 150 at simons, and 330 at cove :lol:

good location if you need a cheap repair on the fly, but for anything more than $20 take your money elsewhere

john henrys is pretty pricy on alot too, but will ALWAYS beat the cove on sticker price

right now dianese upper armour - $400 at JH $550 at cove.

roach leg armour $120 at cove, $109 at john henry.

actully the sticker on the roach legs is 109 at cove also and the madmaxs are like 150 i dont find them overpriced there about the same price as any other bikeshop if your worried about the price you should order from bikeroom
there the cheapest around i have found cove to be the best shop in vancouver thats why i go there

[sAFETY]

i've had some pretty good service off the guys in bike doctor, opposite MEC on broadway.
everytime i've been there they've taken their time, tried to be accommodating pricewise, and generally helpfull as you would expect from avid bikers - which i know they are

Bike doctor is OK, but the two issues still come up there. They don't really deal with high-end bikes, focussing on cruisers and commuter bikes, and they're not in the downtown core.

As for rent, there are a lot of stores making a go of it in town that don't do nearly the business that a bike shop would. And people would be more apt to pay up to MSRP if it didn't involve a 60minute round trip to the shop.

[tashi]

Sounds good, what's holding you back?

[mr_fungle]

Uh, don't forget, Dizzy has a store in Kits on 4th near Burrard. Kn.
My co-worker brought her XC bike there for a much needed overhaul: casette, chainring, 2 tires, a seatpost, gloves and a tune up: $500! WTF!

[michelin man]

simmons=teh best

[Lady Gravity]

My co-worker brought her XC bike there for a much needed overhaul: casette, chainring, 2 tires, a seatpost, gloves and a tune up: $500! WTF!

that seems a little overpriced...

[SkunkworkS]

No one that I have talked to has had a good experience with the Dizzy on Broadway.

But the one in NV is kick ass.

As for shop... Sounds great, I'll consider it when I win the lottery.

[Keefer]

No one that I have talked to has had a good experience with the Dizzy on Broadway.

But the one in NV is kick ass.

As for shop... Sounds great, I'll consider it when I win the lottery.

You mean the Dizzy on West 4th.

I will never ever go there again, the guys there are absolute pricks.

Dizzy in NV is good, from the few times I've been in there, super helpful. I'm even wearing a Dizzy cycles jersey right now that I won at the Ripper last year, haha.

Bike shops downtown, it's hard enough paying the bills in a low rent building in the suburbs. I guess there could be a lot of money potentially in servicing, but selling new bikes I think would be a lot harder, there's still only a certain amount of people in the DT core that need a new bike.

[apeshape]

Having a good shop with knowledgable staff would be gold downtown but for the cost of rent. As much as we love it, DH is still a fringe sport and places like Reckless and Simon's make all their money on walk in customers who buy everyday commuter stuff. It's hard to cater to us when we represent 10-15% of the daily traffic. I think it would also take a while for a small shop to gather the necessary reputation and client base when opening a shop downtown would demand instant cash flow to cover expenses. Before you know it a shop with best DH intentions is selling reflectors and kickstands to make ends meet. It sucks but count ourselves lucky that we do have LBS options anywhere in Vancouver or Norh Vancouver. That being said I wouldn't spend my worst enemies money at BSP.

For my money, JH sometimes feels a bit slick to me but Cove are good people and I gladly go there mostly because I don't feel like I'm being hosed most of the time. The special trips to the Shore can be a hassle but I usually forget about the time I spent in traffic to get a necessary part 5 minutes into my next ride.

[fergs]

I used to take my RM7 into the Denman Bike Shop. I don't have that bike anymore, nor do I live down at that end of downtown so I'm not sure if they still exist. Service was ok. They had to special order parts that other shops would have had on hand, but they got the job done in a satisfactory way.

[gearwh0re]

actully the sticker on the roach legs is 109 at cove also and the madmaxs are like 150 i dont find them overpriced there about the same price as any other bikeshop if your worried about the price you should order from bikeroom
there the cheapest around i have found cove to be the best shop in vancouver thats why i go theretwas 120 2 weeks ago when my buddy and me bought em (looked at cove bought at JH)

the madmaxs and switchblades are likely close to msrp now because they aren't popular enough. cove couldn't move em for the crazy price they charged a few years ago.

check out the dianese. unless the cove one come with $200 cash inside, it is criminal to charge that amount

if you like the cove good on ya. sounds like they are willing to give you deals. but off the street, stciker prices, i would bet they don't have one item that is either the same prices as JH or more. add in JH's help with trail work, group ride and great service dept and it is a no brainer

i am not in love with John Henry either, but they are the only choice on the shore if you don't want to get ripped off

[gearwh0re]

I used to take my RM7 into the Denman Bike Shop. I don't have that bike anymore, nor do I live down at that end of downtown so I'm not sure if they still exist. Service was ok. They had to special order parts that other shops would have had on hand, but they got the job done in a satisfactory way.they are still around. friendly guys but don'ty seem to be too comfy servicing the burly duallies

[Rosscofat]

i never heard of cove??? what are they

[Desloc]

twas 120 2 weeks ago when my buddy and me bought em (looked at cove bought at JH)

the madmaxs and switchblades are likely close to msrp now because they aren't popular enough. cove couldn't move em for the crazy price they charged a few years ago.

check out the dianese. unless the cove one come with $200 cash inside, it is criminal to charge that amount

if you like the cove good on ya. sounds like they are willing to give you deals. but off the street, stciker prices, i would bet they don't have one item that is either the same prices as JH or more. add in JH's help with trail work, group ride and great service dept and it is a no brainer

i am not in love with John Henry either, but they are the only choice on the shore if you don't want to get ripped off

JH the only choice? Maybe you shouldn't be shoppin' the shore.


Des

[pete@nsmb.com]

Does anyone remember Robson Cycles? From a long time ago, the days before suspension and purple ano. When Brodies were custom only, Bridgestone bikes were available and kicked ass, and BRC (!), Rocky, Ritchey and Kona were the main brands. Syncros and Roach were on the up. I was 14 then, and would ride all the way downtown just to be a grommet in there for 15 minutes at a time. Everyone that worked there was a rider in the pure sense - all a little rough around the edges, and all capable of going all day, up and down, fully rigid, on the shore.

[LeeLau]

Cyclepath is the closest decent store to downtown imo. I really liked Robson Cycles

[Wayne P]

My friend Steve (actuall friend of my bro-in-law) is the head wrench at Cyclepath. He's a super nice guy and knows his shite. I know its not DT, but go see him.

[xy9ine]

Does anyone remember Robson Cycles...
those were the days, no? mountain & beach was my favorite shop for exotica - i loved the off road toads. i bought a set of ird switchback brakes there - they predated v-brakes, and were much more powerful than the typical cantis that were on the market. speaking of brc, i actually raced (xc) on the their team for a couple seaons. paul brodie was building some sick fillet-brazed frames. we rode epic shore rides on rigid bikes... ETC. for better or for worse, our sport has seen some crazy change in a relatively short time. its neat to have witnessed the evolution firsthand - it'll make for great rockingchair on the porch stories to the kids.

[boardbrat]

[ BSP - Sure you can buy stuff there, but their selection is rather small and their service department (save for one person that I don't think is there anymore) is sub-par. A friend of mine took in his Giant Team DH there and they told him that nobody on staff had ever worked on one (despite the fact that they sell them and had one in the showroom). I also took a slider there 2 months ago and nobody there had ever even removed springs from a sherman. Again, not a burn on the shop or the people that work there, but high end bikes just aren't their thing.


BSP is one of the biggest shops anywhere so I dont understand that you think their selection is small. They have more bikes, clothing and other stuff than anyone. Cannondale, Trek, Fisher, and Giant. Your service experience seems a bit crazy. The only thing dumber than them not being able to do the work you describe is them telling customers that they don't know how. They have 4 or 5 mechanics there and so far they haven't been unable to ever help me ( I have a freeride and a road bike). As far as high end bikes go, their store is full of them and since they keep growing (another BSP just opened in Langley) they must be doing something right.

If you aren't getting what you want then talk to the store owner or manager.

I don't understand everyone talking about the cost of rent when obviously there are several shops downtown and they have all been there for some time. Funny also, how the shops people like to remember as great shops are out of buisness. It obviously wasn't the cost of rent that killed them since other shops (the ones everyone likes to slam) are still around.

[Uncle Duke]

Does anyone remember Robson Cycles?

I raced for robson back in the day(92-94ish?) still have my jerseys and what not..they wouldve been the best OG shop in the lwr mainland if they hadnt gone bankrupt..def the premiere shop in town.keith,rich... VW lovers.

at that time WS was a mechanic there and an EXCELENT one at that. Kennie M was managing the NV location....ah good times..

[KenN]

My co-worker brought her XC bike there for a much needed overhaul: casette, chainring, 2 tires, a seatpost, gloves and a tune up: $500! WTF!

I dunno, add all that up:

LX/XT level casette: $90
32 tooth chainring: $40
tires, 2x $50: $100
decent seatpost: $100
gloves: $70
tune-up: $50

I get $450, so add a bit of tax and there you go!

Kn.

[boardbrat]

those were the days, no? mountain & beach was my favorite shop for exotica -

The guy that used to own Moutanin and Beach and started OFF Road Toad, Rod, is now the service shop manager at BSP downtown.

[Dude]

Simon is an absolute dick, BUT...Kevin will is one of the most experienced techs around, and will build you the best damn wheel in the city.

The problem is that most of the target market lives outside the city. Cove and JH are easier for the driving population to get to. Simons thrives on the courier business, and the quick sell. Simons is a great place to go to get a "deal", but you will never get a "Bro Deal", ie, guys who will look after and look out for your ride. That's where the Cove and JH win, hands down.

[Uncle Duke]

as far as simons goes kevin the head mechanic there is practically a scientist..he used to build a stack of racers whls. back before I raced for robsons he had a company called whl smart I still l have one of his front wls...strait laced , sealed bearings , titanium hub body , purple spoke nipples *slurp drool*..whl is still in awesome shape.

if he cant fix it forget its broken..simon is .....welll simon One of a kind. in 1990 , when I first started couriering he had a deal where for $ 15 /yr you had BRO status and were allowed to use his tools and bikestands etc.

he even rolled up his white shirt sleaves and did a BB install at 815 am for me one time back in the day before I could handle such complex items...ah got an old man talkin about the old days now....






hi oh silver and away.

[trout]

I don't remember Robson, but I do remember going into Mountian and Beach and La Biccicletta (is it still there?) as a teen and having my jaw drop. I saw a Campagnolo Euclid grouppo, not the most functional but the stuff looked like jewellry. So many high end bikes, so much chrome. I had a brc limelight for awhile, they were super trick, with the crazy sloping top tubes.

You guys are lucky to have so many choices for bike shops. Here if the shop doesn't have what you need it's not as simple as going to the next one.

[Uncle Duke]

mtn and beach was okay... rod was a truly up and down character ...he did carry the pimpinist gear tho hands down.

I recall his old shop way up main st..

the off road toad was a sweet hawg and all my bros who had the mad cheddar yo rode one... in fact when I was at the old cove on tuesday dave b the manger there was building up his old purple toad!! slick ride.

[Dude]

Duke,

I have the same wheel on my X-Country bike! Purple anodized "Dr. Shock" (his brand) hub, sealed, radial laced, sun rims, and yes- the thing is bombproof.

Wayyyyyyyyyyy back in the day, I think about 1989-1992 I worked a fair bit with him at Cap's. Hint...buy the guy a six pack, and you'll be on his Christmas Card list for life. Beer is the currency of bike techs, and gets your bike back ahead of the line.

[Uncle Duke]

La Biccicletta

that was the most authentic euro style (read : hella snobby) roadie shop anywhere!! those dudes thought they were doctors!! lol.

pimpinist gear tho.

[Uncle Duke]

Duke,

I have the same wheel on my X-Country bike! Purple anodized "Dr. Shock" (his brand) hub, sealed, radial laced, sun rims, and yes- the thing is bombproof.

Wayyyyyyyyyyy back in the day, I think about 1989-1992 I worked a fair bit with him at Cap's. Hint...buy the guy a six pack, and you'll be on his Christmas Card list for life. Beer is the currency of bike techs, and makes gets your bike back ahead of the line.

wait a minute who the FUK are you? I probably know you!

do you know jackson price or steve chalmers? how aqbout jason tong or gary wilson?

I do recall that beer and "other " things were better than gold in the old days....


i remeber that caps in NW it was a long drive for us east vanners but we made it a few times..too bad that couldnt have worked out..






waxxes philosphic about yday...

all in all I still love the smell of tri flo in the morning.

[brian]

robson cycles? what about BBK's Cool Shop. they had the best parties.

[Uncle Duke]

BBK cool shop? stumped me... what was that all about?

[Dude]

Is LaBicicletta gone? I bought a Cramerotti TT frame off them years back...26" front, 700C rear, curved top tube, the whole deal. Very nice. Painted French "Bleu, Blanche, et rouge" with the colors fading into each other.


Made a sweet triathlon bike...and that baby moved!

We may know each other...back then I was a pretty young punk...started there when I was 15, left as a manager about 21. Moved from New West to Poco half way through.

Back then, we had guys like Garth Coiler, Rob Wright, Mike McKay, Peter Klassen on the floor. Pat Mulroony was in Westwood then, causing all sorts of trouble.

Christ...we're old!

[trout]

That bike ever do the tt's at zero ave.?

[Dude]

I raced it exclusively in Triathlons and Duathlons, although there were a few down there. Canadian Long Distance Duathlon Championships come to mind, about 1991.

[cam@nsmb.com]

I worked at the Fir location. One of the best shops ever without a doubt. Wade worked at the downtown location for quite a while as well.

Does anyone remember Robson Cycles? From a long time ago, the days before suspension and purple ano. When Brodies were custom only, Bridgestone bikes were available and kicked ass, and BRC (!), Rocky, Ritchey and Kona were the main brands. Syncros and Roach were on the up. I was 14 then, and would ride all the way downtown just to be a grommet in there for 15 minutes at a time. Everyone that worked there was a rider in the pure sense - all a little rough around the edges, and all capable of going all day, up and down, fully rigid, on the shore.

[xy9ine]

That bike ever do the tt's at zero ave.?

i did a couple of those. damn that was painful. i've become much lazier since then.

[Smoke]

BBK's was another shop started by a bunch of riders with more biking ability than business acumen. Great jerseys and cold beers at all times.

Too bad the ship sank...



...and if you thought that $350 for a CARBON Mad Max was horribly overpriced, then maybe you should have taken a closer look at the product.

Reg Mad Max's at the time were MSRP'd at $240, but usually went out the door at $179.

It's funny how you always hear the whining about "this shop is too expensive, and this shop has bad service, and I go to all of them..."

Did it ever occur to you that shop employees probably know who you are now, and pretty much detest you? You know, getting minimum wage for working on bikes when everyone else is out riding actually licks wet bag. When little snot nosed punks come in and bitch, whine and complain about everything you do, you know what happens?

The price goes up.

Read between the lines, they are trying to get you to leave and not come back.

Every shop in Vancouver is pretty damn good. I know the staff at all of them, and I know that I can get what I need at a fair price anywhere, simply because I've been there done that and have a little respect for it.

You want top notch service and low prices? Build a relationship with a reputable store. You get to know people, they get to know you and your gear, and they will do a better job. You get the inside line on what's available in the blowout category. When the mechanic makes a mistake ( and they always do) they will go above and beyond in making it up to you.

You want cheap non-negotiable prices off the rack with a minimum amount of human contact?

Mountain Equipment Co-Op.



Whew, I think I just had a retail flashback or something. Was yesterday 4/20 or something?

[Duncan]

I dunno, add all that up:

LX/XT level casette: $90
32 tooth chainring: $40
tires, 2x $50: $100
decent seatpost: $100
gloves: $70
tune-up: $50

I get $450, so add a bit of tax and there you go!

Kn.

You would probably need to add a new chain, and chainring set if you are adding a new cluster (in my experience but doesn't necessarily apply to a DH Rig):

Chain: $20
22 tooth chainring: $30
10 tooth chainring: $20

There's another $70. ($70 for gloves is a little steep, Ken, get the $25 pair from the "SALE" bin). Shorts are free, just rip them off from your cycling buddies when they're not looking. :P

$500 doesn't sound to bad for decent parts. D.

[Duncan]

I worked at the Fir location. One of the best shops ever without a doubt. Wade worked at the downtown location for quite a while as well.

I bought my first "high-end" mountain bike at the Fir store (now the site of Reckless) ... a 1994 Kona Kiluea. I just about cried the day it got stolen a few years later. Sniff. D.

[Duncan]

Is LaBicicletta gone?

Nope. Still the best source for hardcore Euro bike porn. D.

[Uncle Duke]

smoke is correct.

[mr_fungle]

$500 doesn't sound to bad for decent parts. D.

I agree if you have a high end bike, but you should see this old commuter/XC bike - there was no need for the XTR parts they used.

I make the drive out to JH when I need something - they have been pretty good to me, and with the brocard they usually come in a bit less than most other places.

[Neo]

agreed safety. we need something decent downtown. i've stopped at bsp a couple times but their knowledge is rather dissappointing.

[Ned]

BBK? Chuckles...

[Wayne P]

BBK's was another shop started by a bunch of riders with more biking ability than business acumen. Great jerseys and cold beers at all times.

Too bad the ship sank...



...and if you thought that $350 for a CARBON Mad Max was horribly overpriced, then maybe you should have taken a closer look at the product.

Reg Mad Max's at the time were MSRP'd at $240, but usually went out the door at $179.

It's funny how you always hear the whining about "this shop is too expensive, and this shop has bad service, and I go to all of them..."

Did it ever occur to you that shop employees probably know who you are now, and pretty much detest you? You know, getting minimum wage for working on bikes when everyone else is out riding actually licks wet bag. When little snot nosed punks come in and bitch, whine and complain about everything you do, you know what happens?

The price goes up.

Read between the lines, they are trying to get you to leave and not come back.

Every shop in Vancouver is pretty damn good. I know the staff at all of them, and I know that I can get what I need at a fair price anywhere, simply because I've been there done that and have a little respect for it.

You want top notch service and low prices? Build a relationship with a reputable store. You get to know people, they get to know you and your gear, and they will do a better job. You get the inside line on what's available in the blowout category. When the mechanic makes a mistake ( and they always do) they will go above and beyond in making it up to you.

You want cheap non-negotiable prices off the rack with a minimum amount of human contact?

Mountain Equipment Co-Op.



Whew, I think I just had a retail flashback or something. Was yesterday 4/20 or something?


Correct. I've been saying this all along. A "bro deal" has to be earned in some way or another. Here's a hint for getting one: Shops like it when they have loyal customers. It doesn't work all the time, but most often shop owners will get you "in" if there's an effort made.

[Sunday Rider]

You want cheap non-negotiable prices off the rack with a minimum amount of human contact?

QUOTE]

That's exactly what I want!

[Incorrigible]

I guy told me this in my first year of racing: learn to fix your own bike. He was right.

It is not a cheap sport, and maybe many people can't actually afford it. The shops are doing work and if they are lucky, getting paid for it. You will be hard pressed to find a shop that doesn't charge quite a bit for DH/freeride stuff downtown, where rents are very high. Sorry, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. Downtown = expensive.

And am I the only guy who has never had a problem with Simon?? OK, I haven't been around much lately, maybe that's it. His stuff used to be pretty reasonably priced. And I have never felt ripped off anywhere else either. Just be polite and you'll get treated all right.

[Keefer]

[RANT]

Did it ever occur to you that shop employees probably know who you are now, and pretty much detest you? You know, getting minimum wage for working on bikes when everyone else is out riding actually licks wet bag. When little snot nosed punks come in and bitch, whine and complain about everything you do, you know what happens?

The price goes up.

Read between the lines, they are trying to get you to leave and not come back.

Every shop in Vancouver is pretty damn good. I know the staff at all of them, and I know that I can get what I need at a fair price anywhere, simply because I've been there done that and have a little respect for it.

You want top notch service and low prices? Build a relationship with a reputable store. You get to know people, they get to know you and your gear, and they will do a better job. You get the inside line on what's available in the blowout category. When the mechanic makes a mistake ( and they always do) they will go above and beyond in making it up to you.


If working on bikes is that stressful, and they detest doing it for minimum wage so much, WHY ARE THEY DOING IT?

If they are trying to leave, and get me to not come back, well, I'll tell my friends that. Be it in person, or spreading the word on NSMB. Which is exactly what everyone who talks smack about bike shops on here is doing. Maybe the people at these shops DO know who all the bitchers and whiners are. Does that mean they should be shit on for giving a shop business? Honestly, even hearing that makes me never want to go into a shop like that, even if they haven't done it to me.

If someone I hate brought their bike into my shop, I would fix it up and make it run just as good as the next guy's bike, and for the exact same price. That's what's called GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE. How you say the Cove drives away all it's potential customers, god, how do they keep 2 stores in business?!

I've always been polite etc to the shops when bringing my business there. JH has done me really well, I appreciate it, and I recommend them to anyone looking for a shop on the shore. Cove has been pretty rude to me a couple times (maybe they know who I am and do it on purpose?), and thus when people ask about them, I give negative feedback, that's how things work. I hope it drives away their business, to be honest.

[Desloc]

Correct. I've been saying this all along. A "bro deal" has to be earned in some way or another. Here's a hint for getting one: Shops like it when they have loyal customers. It doesn't work all the time, but most often shop owners will get you "in" if there's an effort made.

So I have to earn the shop's business and not the other way around...interesting.

You offer myself good service and a reasonable price and guess what? ...you've earned my loyalty, period, end of story.

I thought I'd test this theory so I phoned the Cove and offered to buy a set of Roach armor. He quoted full retail plus tax which is understandable. I asked if their shop would hook me up with a bro deal and was told that I'd have to spend retail to show that my interest in the shop was legitimate :lol: I then proceeded to tell them what I could purchase the armor for and asked them to beat the price to show that they were legitimately interested as having me as a customer. I'm sure you can imagine where that went.


Des

[Keyboard Hero]

cove has great prices !
to get the good deals you have to commit to a shop then you get the deals !

YUP!

Loyal customers = loyal shop pricing.

[Desloc]

YUP!

Loyal customers = loyal shop pricing.

Bike shop propaganda at it's finest.

It should read...

Loyal shop pricing and service = Loyal customers.


Des

[brentomatic]

thats even worse. i and joe average pay more so "bros" can get deals.

cove is SILLY overpriced on alot of shit. 3 years ago when giro mad maxs came out they were around 200 at most places, 150 at simons, and 330 at cove :lol:

good location if you need a cheap repair on the fly, but for anything more than $20 take your money elsewhere

john henrys is pretty pricy on alot too, but will ALWAYS beat the cove on sticker price

right now dianese upper armour - $400 at JH $550 at cove.

roach leg armour $120 at cove, $109 at john henry.

Brutal!

Jh and Cove are two of the best shops in the city! I use the Cove for almost everything now and their prices, their staff and the service is top-notch.

I support the Cove 100%.

[Dude]

Christ...I wonder if guys at the shore read NSMB threads. Don't blame them one bit for not biting at your price shopping. They can keep the stuff in stock, and sell it at a fair margin to a loyal customer walking in off the street. In time, that loyal customer will get better service at the shop.

Sorry, I agree...it's your prerogative as a customer to shop around, as it is theirs to charge a fair mark-up. Why would they offer "Bro" deals to any Joe calling in? They have an advertised price for a reason...because they want to make a fair profit. If they sold their goods at a discount to everyone, guess what? No profit = no shop = less competition = higher prices at your LBS. Really, let's think about how better off we'd be if everyone got the lowest price all the time. See the NHL lockout, but in reverse.

See, this is why the downtown core can not support a shop like the Cove...too many cheapskates that have no loyalty. Simon has a formula that works for him, as do the other downtown shops.

[brentomatic]

Bike shop propaganda at it's finest.

It should read...

Loyal shop pricing and service = Loyal customers.


Des

Could be but I also see the other side as well...

[CraigH]

The guy that used to own Moutanin and Beach and started OFF Road Toad, Rod, is now the service shop manager at BSP downtown.

Thanks for the info, I was wondering what happened to him.

[CraigH]

... La Biccicletta (is it still there?) as a teen and having my jaw drop. I saw a Campagnolo Euclid grouppo, not the most functional but the stuff looked like jewellry. So many high end bikes, so much chrome. I had a brc limelight for awhile, they were super trick, with the crazy sloping top tubes.


Yup, roadie only shop now.

http://www.labicicletta.ca/

[Desloc]

...Sorry, I agree...it's your prerogative as a customer to shop around, as it is theirs to charge a fair mark-up. Why would they offer "Bro" deals to any Joe calling in? They have an advertised price for a reason...because they want to make a fair profit...

Damn rights it's my perrogative to shop around. I had an exsisting price on the armor and they wouldn't even meet it, let alone beat it. So it's my perrogative to not spend a nickel there and spread the word.

If a shop can't tell the difference between a 'Joe' and a Bro then that's their loss.

Cheers :beer:


Des

[Desloc]

Could be but I also see the other side as well...

You mean should be. Throughout my life I've only purchased items based on great pricing and service. I don't see another side.


Des

[Dude]

Yes and no. Not their loss if they operate in a time when demand is high, and they are able to attract a customer that will pay the margins, instead of bowing down to the bargain basement guy. In the long run, they will be better off because they will have developped a loyal customer who will pay a little bit more in exchange for good service.

Hate to tell you, but that's just good business.

[brentomatic]

You mean should be. Throughout my life I've only purchased items based on great pricing and service. I don't see another side.


Des

I can see both sides. Loyal customers should equal loyal prices. I see nothing wrong with rewarding your BEST customers. Loyalty card programs from credit cards work on this principle.

[Wayne P]

So I have to earn the shop's business and not the other way around...interesting.



Give me a break! Hey listen, I had to earn every single deal I've ever gotten. I knew it took some trade-off for me to deserve a better price over some other schmuck. I volunteered, I wore the shop's jersey, at a time when I was just starting, and you know what? I was getting more than I could hope for.

Even now with what I recieve, I work my ass off for it because that's just how it works. More effort in = more effort back. Like Smoke said, I can get "deals" at any shop because I put in my time and effort in one way or another. That might be as simple as forming a first name relationship with the employees.

These big deals don't come free my friend.

You don't earn the shop's business, but, what's separating you from the rest of the people looking for a deal? At what point do you stop selling at retail all together and go out of business? Why do you in particular deserve this deal when there's someone else who'll buy it at full price? Jesus man, be realistic.

[Desloc]

Yes and no. Not their loss if they operate in a time when demand is high, and they are able to attract a customer that will pay the margins, instead of bowing down to the bargain basement guy. In the long run, they will be better off because they will have developped a loyal customer who will pay a little bit more in exchange for good service.

Hate to tell you, but that's just good business.

No one mentioned bargain basement. Their prices was higher than everyone's advertised price and the price I had was fair to good. Trust me, it was their loss, not mine.

Des

[Desloc]

Give me a break! Hey listen, I had to earn every single deal I've ever gotten. I knew it took some trade-off for me to deserve a better price over some other schmuck. I volunteered, I wore the shop's jersey, at a time when I was just starting, and you know what? I was getting more than I could hope for.

Even now with what I recieve, I work my ass off for it because that's just how it works. More effort in = more effort back. Like Smoke said, I can get "deals" at any shop because I put in my time and effort in one way or another. That might be as simple as forming a first name relationship with the employees.

These big deals don't come free my friend.

You don't earn the shop's business, but, what's separating you from the rest of the people looking for a deal? At what point do you stop selling at retail all together and go out of business? Why do you in particular deserve this deal when there's someone else who'll buy it at full price? Jesus man, be realistic.


Sounds like you got played ;)


Des

[Couch_Surfer]

I can see both sides. Loyal customers should equal loyal prices. I see nothing wrong with rewarding your BEST customers. Loyalty card programs from credit cards work on this principle.

Loyalty programs are very common business practices and the bike shop Bro Deal is definately one version of that. Fly 25K, 50K, 100K / year with an airline and you'll get a variety of upgrades and perks. Stay 20, 50, 75 nights /year with a specific hotel brand and you'll get perks and comp points toward freebies.

Maybe one of these shops should take a page from the big boys and formalize the program. Get a Cove / JH / Dizzy / Steed card and for every 5, 10, 20K you spend you get a variety of perks including freebies and discounts.

My only beef with the 'bro deal' is that it's usually a wink wink nudge nudge kind of thing and probably isn't being used as an effective business tool (which is what it should be).

Having said all that - My own opinion is that we need hugeass SuperGo up here and drive some real price competition

[LeeLau]

My friend Steve (actuall friend of my bro-in-law) is the head wrench at Cyclepath. He's a super nice guy and knows his shite. I know its not DT, but go see him.

Steve's dad is Brian Perry - the kamloops realtor i mentioned - like father like son. www.bperry.com

[SkunkworkS]

Having said all that - My own opinion is that we need hugeass SuperGo up here and drive some real price competition

SuperGo = best shop ever.

I go there probably twice a year since I don't venture to Seattle often but when I do go there, I get treated like a "bro" with the "bro hook-ups" as well.

But I could live like a god without the hook-ups cause everything there is priced less than retail (usually). :fro:

[Smoke]

If working on bikes is that stressful, and they detest doing it for minimum wage so much, WHY ARE THEY DOING IT?



I thought that line might get jumped on.

It's a lot of fun to work on bikes all day.

But while most mechanics like bikes, they really hate people. That's how I got so good at playing 1st person shooters. After a long day of working with the pubic, uhh I mean public, there's nothing more satisfying than a long distance double tap to the forehead.

[Keefer]

I'm all for bro deals. I'm also all for price matching. Obviously there will be different prices at different shops, so the least they could do is match it.

Brent's idea about a customer loyalty program is ingenius.

[Keefer]

I thought that line might get jumped on.

It's a lot of fun to work on bikes all day.

But while most mechanics like bikes, they really hate people. That's how I got so good at playing 1st person shooters. After a long day of working with the pubic, uhh I mean public, there's nothing more satisfying than a long distance double tap to the forehead.

It is fun to work on bikes all day, and getting paid for it is even better. Heck, working at Cove, I bet 90% of the bikes they see are quality mountain bikes too, no? More skill required, but man, way better than working on that crappy 15 year old Nishiki that's been left outside for 10 years.

I'm just saying that disliking the customer should NOT affect how well you tuen their bike up when they're paying you to do it. Any mechanic that does a second rate job because they dislike a customer should be fired.

However, when you see a bro come in, I can understand for you to maybe spend that little bit of extra time on the bike. If you're working on a bike that isn't due up for another 2 days, drop that and work on the bro's bike. That's what being a bro is.

So yea, I guess you could say I advocate a two tier "bro" system, but don't treat anyone poorly or disrespectfully, because it will send them, and hopefully their friends, away from your shop.

[Chief]

first of all buddy with the jh prices at 109 and cove at 120 youre pretty much wrong when i bought my rallly fr pads they were 109 at cove and 109 at jh ! maybe youre mixing up the rall dh pads that sell for 120 at both stores i dont see why some of you are so against "bro Deals " serriously i think that you should get a break on the price from the every day jo schmos that walk in the store if youre a loyal customer who is polite to the staff especcially if youve dropped some serrious dough on a cople of bikes

[Dude]

Not their loss, Des. They'd rather give a Bro deal to a bro, not a guy who won't bother stepping into their shop to talk. Customers like you are no loss to a shop like Cove...they will either sell the same to their loyal customers at the price you demand, or sell at full list to new customers. Either way, they are ahead by NOT dealing with you.

But, whatever. Bottom feeders will be bottom feeders.

[Duncan]

But while most mechanics like bikes, they really hate people.

Such generalizations. Kelly at the Cove on many an occasion has gone above and beyond the call for me. I'm not a big spender, a hot rider or a hipster dude. A few weeks ago I brought my ROAD BIKE into the Cove to get an STI integrated brake/shifter replaced. While I stood there he CALLED LABICICLETTA on the phone to see if they could repair it (they couldn't) or give me a better deal than the Cove's supplier (they couldn't). I ended up ordering mine through ebay and gave them to Kelly to put on. Total benefit to the Cove bike store? $21.00 in parts and installation. Now to me THAT's service ... not some guy you can play over the phone against a competitor just to get a bargain. D.

[Tom]

Read between the lines, they are trying to get you to leave and not come back.


just curious...how do the owners of bike shops feel about this? If I owned a business and an employee was DELIBERATELY trying to turn away business, I'd be pissed.

[fr33k]

most of you guys couldn't run a buisness that would last more than a year with customer service ideas you have. Its all about the customer thats it nothing more. they pay the bills, your kids food and the car you drive. Any customer is a good customer.
But i do agree that each rider should find a shop they can be loyal to and good things will come with loyalty Like getting youre bike fixed in an emergency when youre buddies are waiting for you in the truck, or getting a couple of bucks off some eye candy bike part you have been lusting for.
Cove..............ya I shopped there since well before most of you knew what mountain bikes are. they used to be great. Good wrenches, and good pricing.Now I wouldnt trust a scooter to be fixed there.
Jh's. been there a few times. Kinda lame staff but a great selection of stuff and pricing that can be good sometimes.
Cove in North van. First time i walked into that place with builttoride and andy we knew this shop sucks big time, some dweeb gave us huge attitude so we walked. lost 3 new customers........now theres some great buisness knowledge.

Find a shop you like and can trust. be loyal and they will be loyal to you.

[03stinkyrida]

west point has been good to me, i get get good deals from there but the lack of good mechanics there is not a good thing. JH has been great to me. During a ride my derialler fell apart so of course natually i took it to cove where i bought the bike so they could fix it inbetween runs. They told me no way and sent me away. I went into JH with my kona with a big COVE sticker on it and they said for sure just give us 20 mins and we'll have it done for you even tho clearly i was a Cove customer. Now that is service. I will never buy from cove again almost everytime I am there they are quite rude to me. If I didnt live so far away from the shore I would go to JH everytime.

[bunny]

most of you guys couldn't run a buisness that would last more than a year with customer service ideas you have. Its all about the customer thats it nothing more. they pay the bills, your kids food and the car you drive. Any customer is a good customer.


WRONG!
i have turned away a LOT of customers in my business. they just aren't worth it when they are a huge pain in the ass. if you add up the time some people consume combined with the heckling for a better deal it just doesn't make economic sense (plus some business owners value the sanity of themselves and their staff above profits).

definitely if you are nice to deal with and loyal you'll get good deals at your bike shop like with any other business. why some people expect these deals all the time escapes me.... if someone ever phoned me expecting to be "hooked up" just because they are blessing me with their business i'd laugh.

[Wayne P]

Not their loss, Des. They'd rather give a Bro deal to a bro, not a guy who won't bother stepping into their shop to talk. Customers like you are no loss to a shop like Cove...they will either sell the same to their loyal customers at the price you demand, or sell at full list to new customers. Either way, they are ahead by NOT dealing with you.

But, whatever. Bottom feeders will be bottom feeders.

But everyone owes him something right?

[Wayne P]

I have respect for the business owner (shop) who will kick out unruly customers. Same goes for demanding customers who want it all right now for nothing, who tend to treat employees like crap. Some owners don't put up with BS, some will gladly bend over. Its funny going from one shop to another and seeing the different the clientele are! Amazing actually.

[the flying moose]

I have respect for the business owner (shop) who will kick out unruly customers. Same goes for demanding customers who want it all right now for nothing, who tend to treat employees like crap. Some owners don't put up with BS, some will gladly bend over. Its funny going from one shop to another and seeing the different the clientele are! Amazing actually.

i enjoy dealing with the customers who dont think that they should have to pay for labour when dealing with the mechanics.

[Desloc]

Not their loss, Des. They'd rather give a Bro deal to a bro, not a guy who won't bother stepping into their shop to talk. Customers like you are no loss to a shop like Cove...they will either sell the same to their loyal customers at the price you demand, or sell at full list to new customers. Either way, they are ahead by NOT dealing with you.

But, whatever. Bottom feeders will be bottom feeders.

Personal attacks are weak.

A shop's reputation relies on it's customer's feedback and word-of-mouth. I'm no different than the next guy... looking to be treated fairly by a shop that's honest, reasonable and offers great service. The Cove's attitude over the phone ruled out a visit, my time and fuel to get there. Many others will here about my experience.

Des

[Desloc]

just curious...how do the owners of bike shops feel about this? If I owned a business and an employee was DELIBERATELY trying to turn away business, I'd be pissed.

Agreed. Shops not needing business, turning away people... I always thought the whine of the industry was how hurting every shop was. Funny how the truth comes out :lol:


Des

[Desloc]

WRONG!
i have turned away a LOT of customers in my business. they just aren't worth it when they are a huge pain in the ass. if you add up the time some people consume combined with the heckling for a better deal it just doesn't make economic sense (plus some business owners value the sanity of themselves and their staff above profits).

definitely if you are nice to deal with and loyal you'll get good deals at your bike shop like with any other business. why some people expect these deals all the time escapes me.... if someone ever phoned me expecting to be "hooked up" just because they are blessing me with their business i'd laugh.

As have I turned away business, but never because a customer wanted a competitive market price. Business is business and if you spend all your time whining about your 'difficult' customers then good luck in your success. Your attitude may have lost you the blessings of many.

Des

[Chief]

ill agree that some times people at all shops can be nasty some times but for the most part shops work for your buisness this dosent mean that they should give you a discount but they should always be freindly !you gotta give respect to get it . but i dont think that you should not give them buisness just because they wouldnt give you a deal over the phone or in person! btw : where do you think i could get a bike box ? as i dont really feel like driving to cove when i dont need any service done

[Desloc]

But everyone owes him something right?

I only expect to be treated the way I treat my clients... top drawer. It's not like ever bike shop employee is educated and trained in customer service/communications. Like I've said before... honestly, reasonable prices, great service, and someone who treats a customer with the respect and understanding that they are the ones putting food on their plate. Believe or not, you can provide the above to your customers and still run a profitable business.

Coming off like you are making 6 figures riding a bike and expecting your customers fit in your little box of expectations is the reason why many stuggle to find a great shop.


Des

[Nelson]

I have respect for the business owner (shop) who will kick out unruly customers. Same goes for demanding customers who want it all right now for nothing, who tend to treat employees like crap. Some owners don't put up with BS, some will gladly bend over. Its funny going from one shop to another and seeing the different the clientele are! Amazing actually.

Amen. If I have a customer that's asking for an impossible deal, or thinks they're the next hot shot bike tech, then I usually Give them my card, tell them to do some shopping, and come to me when they know what they want. Theres a difference between turning away business, and wasting time. I'm not going to spend time with a guy who's asking me how low I can go on a Demo9 and asking me where the trails are on the shore when theres a parent looking at a $500 bike for the kid in the corner. Obviously I'm not going to send someone out of the shop, but once youv'e spent 3 years doing the same gig then it becomes pretty clear on who's a customer and who's yankin your chain.

[Desloc]

... but i dont think that you should not give them buisness just because they wouldnt give you a deal over the phone or in person! btw : where do you think i could get a bike box ? as i dont really feel like driving to cove when i dont need any service done

I do much of my business on the phone. If they are going present themselves in that manner over the phone, why would they be any different in their shop? Ever buy a new car over the phone? Million of dollar change hands daily over the phone. Your phone argument is very weak.

What does having service done have anything to do with a bike box???


Des

[sAFETY]

Back to the topic

See, this is why the downtown core can not support a shop like the Cove...too many cheapskates that have no loyalty.

Have you ever been downtown where there are tens of thousands of people willing to pay $1450/month for 700sqft appartments, $130/month for a parking spot, and a premium for anything else that's convenient. If you offer a convenient package to those with money (cheapskates? please :rolleyes: ), people will pay.

Do you honeslty think that all of the good paying customers for shops like JH and the Cove live in the neighbourhood?

[Dude]

Psssst....they don't ride bikes.

[Desloc]

Psssst....they don't ride bikes.

I know and it shows.


Des

[gearwh0re]

brutal. most you supporters of JH and cove are making them look horrible

"they will conintue to sell at cheap prices to repeat business and full price to walk ins"

how STUPID. it is the same product. find a fair price where you can make a profit and sell it for that. silly and stupid.

[tashi]

Well, it seems like everything has been said.

Twice. At least.

Moving on...

[Dude]

Agreed...flogging Seabiscuit now.

[tashi]

What? Soggy biscut?

Oh, beating the dead horse, I get it. I think it's glue factory time actually.

[Smoke]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke
But while most mechanics like bikes, they really hate people.


Such generalizations. Kelly at the Cove on many an occasion has gone above and beyond the call for me.

He likes your bike, not you....:lol:

[sAFETY]

Psssst....they don't ride bikes.

Get a clue man, I can think of a few people in this thread alone that live and work downtown, still more that come in every day to work downtown. And the then of thousands of dollars worth of Norco, Banshee, Specialized, Cove, Brodie and Transition bikes in my building's bike room says otherwise.

Saying that downtown residents don't bike is like saying suburbanites don't brush their teeth.

[Dude]

It's a generalization...of course there are some riders living DT. What I'm saying is that the target market of the Coves and JH of this world, for the most part, are young to middle age suburbanites. And, the odd part about this is that even though it costs a lot to participate in this sport, a large majority of the market fall into a low income category. Again- generalization, not the rule. I just don't see the West Ender or Yaletowner walking into a JH. Martini bar or Mini Store, yes, but not a specialized bike shop like JH. Just because the average person who owns a flat downtown has money, doesn't mean they'll want to spend it on a bike. Once again, Simon seems to have found the best formula to cater to the odd downtowner and the couriers.

It's almost like the freeride and DH market is the exact opposite to the triathlon bike market, where the average customer earns $80K (I got this figure from Triathlete Magazine a number of years back). One of what I think the coolest aspects about our sport is that a lot of guys will bust there nuts 9-5, yet spend a significant amount of their take home on a bike or gear. As I think we've all described this sport at some point, it's like a drug.

Besides...instead of thinking I'm some sort of a cook that doesn't understand the business, all you have to do is look at the market itself: if there were a huge demand for another shop with the type of floor space you're describing, in DT, such a shop would have already opened and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

There you be, my opinion. Poor Seabiscuit...

[Elson Roa]

one problem that the shop i worked for had in a major metropolis - where to park? it seems to me that a DT shop, in addition to having the most educated staff, scientists of spin working as mechs, cheapest prices, widest range of stock, free beer and t shirts, needs to have some parking to enable you not to have to ride/push your busted big hitter there.

parking space DT? and a big store? and expensive staff? Call me back when the moon turns out to be REALLY made out of cheese.

but even if such a store did open, i would bet my right arm that someone would be whinging on here within hours.

[pete@nsmb.com]

After a long day of working with the pubic, uhh I mean public, there's nothing more satisfying than a long distance double tap to the forehead.

That's going to end up in someone's sig, guaranteed.

[pete@nsmb.com]

It always amazes me how many things ended up getting treated differently in the bike world. Poor Seabiscuit will be bleeding at both haunches when I'm done...

#1 - Warranty. Warranty my worn out tire. Warranty my tube that has a hole in it. Warranty whiners - go warranty your attitude. There are legit warranties, and in most cases, illegitimate ones. It broke because you crashed? Sorry, not a warranty. Do you try to warranty your car if you crash it? Things wear out, you gotta replace 'em. If it's a defect, it's a defect, fair enough.

#2 - Pricing. If you buy 2, 3 or more cars at a dealership, do you not expect even slightly better pricing? If you don't expect that, you're getting hosed. Do you call A&B and expect them to engage you in a bidding war over the price of a TV? Ah no. I've tried it, just for fun. Literally called from London Drugs. He laughed and said if you're serious, come on down here. Why should it be different for bikes? You call to ask for a price, you get it. They're not going to drop their pants for you on the phone, 'cuz you won't be able to see the pimples anyway. Why should every bike shop be beholden to price match every other store on every other part? Do Safeway and Overwaitea price everything the same? Nope, they might duke it out on an average basket full of groceries, but they're not going to always charge the same for your kilo of Chiquitas, chica. As for running a business properly - retaining your existing customers should take priority over trying to attract new ones. it's easier and more profitable. THAT is good business, and a proven concept. Take care of the customers you have, then go get new ones.

#3 - Service. I've worked in the service industry long enough to know that every customer may be right, but some customers should only get the chance to be right once. After that, they can go waste someone else's time. Seriously. While bike shops need your business just as badly as restaurants do, there's only so much pain and suffering that an owner and their employees will and should put up with. And there are customers out there that buy the odd thing, but end up being money lost in terms of the PITA (Pain in the Ass) factor. This is where bro pricing comes in. Good customers stick around when they realize their business is appreciated. Your business can't be appreciated until you actually give some to a shop. There is a difference.

ALL business works based on relationships. Some shops/businesses are better than others at making you feel warm and fuzzy when you walk in, but don't expect special deals anywhere until you get known at a shop (not just in the bike world). Every customer and potential customer has a right to be treated well, that is for sure, BUT I keep hearing people saying they deserve a fair price. Well, if the store quotes anything that's MSRP or lower, that's a fair price (according to the manufacturer), you decide if that's where you want to buy or not, but don't cry wolf because a shop decides to stick to that price, particularly if you're a voice on the phone they don't know, sitting at home with a phone book and a pencil. Shops know what the other are selling parts for anyway. They might be content to lose a sale because they won't go 10% lower. Lots of reasons for this, let's not get into all of them here.

#4 - Common complaint: You shouldn't have to bring your bike mechanic beer to get good service. Well, you don't have to. But doing so ensures better service, and definitely fast tracks you to bro status. All depends on how bad you want that last minute brake bleed, or a little extra love. What? You never did a favor for anyone before? How do you expect to get one back? This isn't Nordstrom's, with massive clothing margins and a fleet of staff in khakis, it's your LBS. Be neighbourly, and expect to reap the benefits.

#5 - Shops should do repairs while you wait. Hey, if they can, consider yourself lucky. If they can't it's because they're too busy, numskull. You'd be choked if you showed up to pick your bike up on time and found out it wasn't done, then as you were waiting there for them to bring it to you, you watch as they proceed to help a bunch of peeps who had a break down mid-ride. Can't have that one both ways, and if you booked maintenance time, you should be first on the list. Unless the owner's kid comes in with 4 broken spokes and a bunk BB. Then you're hooped.

I've never worked in a bike shop, but I have lots of friends who do and have, and I've spent more than my fair share in them, on the floor, and in the back. And while I've seen and experienced my share of poor service, I see WAY more examples of "customers" who, from the moment they walk in the door, take the attitude that they won't drop a dime until someone gets on their knees. Same thing in the food industry. Service really does go both ways. You can be one of those people who has dozens of stories about places that have sucky service, or you can remember that your mechanic, salesman, and bartenders are all people too. Treat them that way, and you'll get the odd free shot or quick repair freebie while you wait.

This thread comes up once every few months. What will never change is the fact that you have to give a little to get a little at bike shops as in life. Like women, LBSs all have their quirks. Find one whose quirks you can live with, and you'll enjoy a long, happy relationship.

[Lady Gravity]

YAAAY PETE!! you nailed it, seriously.

[Duncan]

brutal. most you supporters of JH and cove are making them look horrible

"they will conintue to sell at cheap prices to repeat business and full price to walk ins"

how STUPID. it is the same product. find a fair price where you can make a profit and sell it for that. silly and stupid.

Name any business - airlines, auto dealerships, hotels, computer software & hardware, for example, and you will see "the same product" sold at different prices to different customers. Because of what I do for a living, I happen to get discounts as a Dell Preferred Customer. Does this piss you off too? D.

[Uncle Duke]

kelly at the cove is a rare dude. and an awesome mechanic...he might actually even kind of like some of the customers not just their bikes.

the other day he laffed at the color of my truck tho..said it was the last one off of the lot that year... I thought that was a low blow..flaming pink aint so bad...I may have to rethink this kelly position..

[Roasted]

Back to the topic



Have you ever been downtown where there are tens of thousands of people willing to pay $1450/month for 700sqft appartments, $130/month for a parking spot, and a premium for anything else that's convenient. If you offer a convenient package to those with money (cheapskates? please :rolleyes: ), people will pay.

Do you honeslty think that all of the good paying customers for shops like JH and the Cove live in the neighbourhood?


Some of them live really far out of town actually. ;) I have an lbs in town and in vancouver.

I do get some deals up here (thank god, I wouldn't be able to ride without help), but with rent so high shops can only go so low and .. again, with rent so high,personall, I can only pay so much. I buy most things online but do spend a bit of time every month or so at Dizzy cycles (JH is fun to walk through but I don't think I ever bought anything there)...

I don't exclude my shop and in fact buy there if the price is close, that extra 10$ is nothing when it comes to shop relations. The only time I buy online is when the deals start really saving the bank. I just can't afford to be exclusive, but I do try :)

[Duncan]

kelly at the cove is a rare dude.

I second that .... D.

[Roasted]

Pete, you forgot one part to number 5. Kids bringing bikes in, in the spring, expecting immediate service. I don't work in a shop but saw a kid throw a temper tantrum because his bike was gonna be 4 days before he got it back. I almost yelled at the kid myself for being a little brat (not my place or my kid). In the spring, if you want service, be prepared to wait, beer or no beer (unless you REALLY know someone). I don't go near lbs's in the spring, mechanics are working like madmen haha

Good synopsis Pete.

[sAFETY]

This thread comes up once every few months. What will never change is the fact that you have to give a little to get a little at bike shops as in life. Like women, LBSs all have their quirks. Find one whose quirks you can live with, and you'll enjoy a long, happy relationship.

I disagree, I think you mean that a thread is hijacked like this every few months.

There's still no shop in the downtown core that caters to the thousands of serious bikers that live and/or work here.

Also, I'm not alone in this sentiment. I've brought this up with two bike companies and they've both agreed there there's a need.

[Duncan]

I disagree, I think you mean that a thread is hijacked like this every few months.


By putting in the word "decent" you opened a can of worms. There are bike stores downtown, how "decent" they are is a matter of opinion. D.

[ATN]

Was there a bike shop on West 7th, 2 blocks east of Cambie? 2 blocks down and 1 across from MEC. I walked by there everyday this summer and there was a Seven Cycles dealer sticker on the door, but it was closed and being turned into a fireplace store.

[sAFETY]

By putting in the word "decent" you opened a can of worms. There are bike stores downtown, how "decent" they are is a matter of opinion. D.


hehe, but that's the only thing that everyone seems to agree with. There are no 'decent' options for the serious biker downtown.

And ATN, I think the place you're refering to is a roadie shop that's moved to Burrard. Campionne? Anyways, it's still 8+ city blocks and an large body of water away from being downtown.

[pete@nsmb.com]

YAAAY PETE!! you nailed it, seriously.

Thanks LG. Sorry all for the rant. Holy crap. I'm still out of e-breath.

One more thing. Paying higher prices is NOT funding people's bro deals. Bro deals, just like staff deals, still represent a (very small) bit of profit for the shop. And that profit is after fixed costs, etc. So you don't have to feel like you're funding the owner's/manager's/mechanic's buddies because you ahd to suck it up and pay retail.

HA! One more thing. I HATE paying retail, too. That's why the bro card was invented. One too many instance of having to fast track my way to bro status.

[pete@nsmb.com]

I disagree, I think you mean that a thread is hijacked like this every few months.

Quite right, sir. And I do agree with the initial question - downtown does need another shop. But it would be a helluva challenge to make a go of it.

[boardbrat]

hehe, but that's the only thing that everyone seems to agree with. There are no 'decent' options for the serious biker downtown.



What the heck is a "serious biker" anyway? Were talking about customers right? And apparently they have options and many are shopping downtown.

There is no agreement here from what I read. Some say the Cove and JH suck and others think they're great. I think the same goes for downtown. Again, contrary to some of the comments here, there are shops downtown, even big ones, faced with all the problems of parking, rent and so on, that seem to be surviving quite well and even growing. Take the blinders off. There is more to the world than the "SHORE".

All the talk of deals is puzzling too. Seems a lot of you haven't noticed that the shops that you rave about giving great deals, actually have higher prices than the regular prices at other stores (JH for one). They have the item on the shelf for $200 but you get the BRO price for $160. And then you get on here and rave about what great guys they are and tell your friends. One way to build a business, I guess.

Thing is, there are 5 other shops that sell the thing at regular price for $150.
But you're not going to get on here and rave about them, because their philosphy for buiding their business is to treat everyone the same. Oh what bastards!

Simons, reckless and BSP have all been around for ages. That they don't cater to your specific requirements or standards is not a measure of how "decent" they are. They are meeting the needs of their many customers and the fact that some people buy bikes on the Shore may have just as much to do with the particular brand of bike as with the shop.

[boardbrat]

Quite right, sir. And I do agree with the initial question - downtown does need another shop. .

Why?.

[pete@nsmb.com]

That they don't cater to your specific requirements or standards is not a measure of how "decent" they are.

That statement is true, and also helps answer your question.

There are a lot of riders downtown, and for many of them, getting their bike to and from a shop where they can have repairs done is a challenge. I used to counsel people against buying on the Shore if they lived in Vancouver, if they didn't own a car and/or were over on the Shore a lot, because they were usually new riders who intended to take advantage of their first year of service - new riders.

[boardbrat]

That statement is true, and also helps answer your question.

There are a lot of riders downtown, and for many of them, getting their bike to and from a shop where they can have repairs done is a challenge. I used to counsel people against buying on the Shore if they lived in Vancouver, if they didn't own a car and/or were over on the Shore a lot, because they were usually new riders who intended to take advantage of their first year of service - new riders.

I have no idea what the heck you are saying.

Is it the actual moving of their bike to and from a shop, that is the challenge downtown?

As I have said before, I have had no problem getting my bikes serviced downtown. I suspect Safety's experience may have more to do with a specific mechanic, who may have less experience. It would therefore not be fair to simply say that all the shops downtown can't do service on high end.
From what I can see BSP has one of the best equipped shops. They just took over another business next door and made their shop even bigger. They sell and work on plenty of high end. They don't sell Kona or Banshee though, so maybe they see a few less big bikes there.

The other point that seems to be lost is that the mechanics move around. I have seen JH and Cove mechanics at BSP and vice versa and then they show up at Dizzy. There just don't seem to be enough great ones around and that can't be pinned on any one shop.

[Desloc]

All the talk of deals is puzzling too. Seems a lot of you haven't noticed that the shops that you rave about giving great deals, actually have higher prices than the regular prices at other stores (JH for one). They have the item on the shelf for $200 but you get the BRO price for $160. And then you get on here and rave about what great guys they are and tell your friends. One way to build a business, I guess.

Thing is, there are 5 other shops that sell the thing at regular price for $150.
But you're not going to get on here and rave about them, because their philosphy for buiding their business is to treat everyone the same. Oh what bastards!

Cheers :beer: :beer:


Des

[pete@nsmb.com]

Is it the actual moving of their bike to and from a shop, that is the challenge downtown?

Yes.

I'm not going to comment on the shops downtown specifically, except to say that if I lived downtown, I'd be wishing for another shop, too. Different shops appeal to different people, that's why there's so much love/hate about each shop, right? And, for my money, no shop downtown does it for me. That doesn't mean I think they're bad shops, just that none of them are the shop for me.

[Rosscofat]

well lets get this party started. who wants to pool some $$$ into buying a place downtown and start up a shop? I got some money to throw around.

send me a PM we can talk

[pete@nsmb.com]

More than money, you're going to need time.

[CraigH]

If anyone was serious about this, the best way to do it would be to open a 2nd (or more) store of a successful LBS that already has a good reputation in another part of the city.

The other bike store I was thinking of was Darksyde Bikes as I think he was looking for a location to open a real store.

[Rosscofat]

good call craig. True you need to have good rep before people come into your store and trust you with the bike

[Scott C]

well lets get this party started. who wants to pool some $$$ into buying a place downtown and start up a shop? I got some money to throw around.

send me a PM we can talk

Give Jimmy Pattison a call.

[Rosscofat]

who is he and give me his number. im willing to get lots of people invloved.

Id even be willing to get darksyde bikes the business name.

[ATN]

Jimmy Pattison owns Save-On-Foods, a lot of car dealerships, and many other businesses. These are not publicly traded, he owns them. He also has the tower at Vancouver General Hospital named after him. It was a joke.

[Rosscofat]

oh. hes that guy. he owns a few Sign comapnies also lots of billboard after him I think ive met him

[Scott C]

I think ive met him

Sweet, you're in!

[gearwh0re]

i can't quote here because i few people said "safeway and overwaitea charge different prices for soup" or "call 2 airlines and prices will be different"

my point was not that the same product should be the same price everywhere. it is a free market.

my point was that the same tire at the same store on the same day should cost the same whether or not i walk in the cove (cove for example applies to anywhere) from out of town or if i am in there twice a week

i am not talking about staff discount or good buddies of people in ownership, these are situations where profit is decreased

i am talking a repair should cost me the same as someone who had been in the shop 5 times before. if every customer who does repeat business is getting better pricing than a family off the street, then the family off the street is getting ripped off.

[Rosscofat]

ya if everyone charges the same. every makes the money. lets do it lets make a FREE bikeshop everythings FREEEEE lol

[UFO]

i wish i could turn my location downtown into a retail opportunity. then i dont have to deal w/ snobby tourists and $200 bikes all day long! but its simply not profittable.

to set up a successful shop, you'd need a good amount of space so you can stock a good range of gear, high end, low end, parts, etc etc. while there are riders who will buy from you, i dont think it will be enough to sustain a business. look at simon's; the location is tiny, store is cramped, and selection really isnt anything to brag about. he makes his money through economies of scale and other not so publically known means. if there was a possible niche downtown for a different type of store that exists already, im quite sure that it would be there already.

and if i am not able to sell gear to you at prices my competitors who are paying less for rent, see more traffic, etc etc, charge, i know i wont see your business. im all for price matching and keeping prices competitive, but depending on the store's situation it just isn't possible at all times. the bike market here is quite complex, maybe we still have too many shops around.

[Faithless]

Jimmy Pattison owns Save-On-Foods, a lot of car dealerships, and many other businesses. These are not publicly traded, he owns them. He also has the tower at Vancouver General Hospital named after him. It was a joke.


and started his own newspaper.

[sAFETY]

I suspect Safety's experience may have more to do with a specific mechanic, who may have less experience. It would therefore not be fair to simply say that all the shops downtown can't do service on high end.

After having my bike primarily serviced in the downtown core for the last 6 years, I'm pretty confident in my range of experiences in bike shops. I know which ones are good for some things, and which are good for others. Where to buy gear, vs where to get a wheel built.

The shops have ranged from laughably incompetent, to suprisingly apt. The problem is that there are no shops that are reliable enough to trust that the job will get done right, and I won't have to wait weeks while they order in parts that should be in stock as a regular item.

Some assume that just because there isn't a shop to fill the void alread, the void therefore must not exist. That's just bad business sense. There is always an oppurtunity to serve a market, either it's through opening up a new store, or by increasing the service at an existing location.

[TylerDurden]

You know what earns a profit in Simon's store - Selling 10 rollershoes or Razor scooters at day at 250% markup. That guy has the pipeline to the next hot things (he was one of first to sell the scooters) and then he goes and buys a couple container loads of them before OGC has even heard of it. Nowadays he's selling like 10 prs of rollershoes a days for beauty margins. He sure as hell isn't paying the rent on RMX sales.

If any shop is to be profitable and offer comprehensive mechanical service - they've got to charge for it. So, don't ask for them to be able to fix your JuicyLouiseHayesHopes and Grimeca and in the same day and not want to pay full pop for it (full pop wrench pricing is like JH or Steed). If you all want bro-deals and hookups on the service - then expect these shops to just stock P&A's where the margins are (anybody want to buy a Camelback Mule or Dainese suit?).

I used to work at Comor, who's got a downtown location, and I'll tell you this - they sure as hell didn't pay the rent on ski and board service.

Also, did you guys know that shops like Robson Roots take a loss? They're just in that location for the high profile - but the other shops in the chain prop up that store. You just can't pay for $55/sq ft when you selling trackpants and t-shirts!

If bike retailer is going to survive downtown, they're going to have to diversify greatly to bring in the bacon. Sell coffee, street clothes (ie quiksilver, etnies etc), sunglasses, scooters, snowsports, or whatever and have a decent bike service area in the back.

Honestly, our best hope is that Westbeach, SportingLife or Snowcovers decides they want to open a downtown Vancouver shop with solid bike section staff in it. Otherwise, keep dreaming........

[Uncle Duke]

Honestly, our best hope is that Westbeach....

I have long time been amazed that west beach never got in on mtn biking..shorts , shirts , apres wear you name it .
ripe pickings for a company w their kind of infrastructure...

[Dude]

From a business standpoint, diversification is often a better idea on paper than in application. It can have two affects: either increased business do to successfully tying two ideas together, or a long term loss due to lack of focus on the horses that got you there. Sometimes it's just better to stay doing what you do, and focus on doing it better.

Speaking of horses, poor old Seabiscuit is trail pulp stuck to the bottom of our tires now.

[Alex Lag]

cove has great prices !
to get the good deals you have to commit to a shop then you get the deals !


Are you kidding me? Every shop I go is a bad experience, from shops at the shore and here in Van, we all are customer regardless of how much you pay, I will never ask for a discount in a bike shop but I expect good service and I think what the deal is is that most bike shops give you a crappy service even if you have bought your bike there. I got a brand new Giant DH team in BSP and 6 months later they forgot about me, I took the bike there for service and wanted to charge me for stuff I never ordered or even stuff the bike never got, what do you do? go to another shop..... same thing, they 'don't know you' and treat you like shite.

I know retail business is tuff but every person that walks into your shop is a potential client, many times is up to the people working at the shop if that person waling in becomes a client or not, but treating people like that makes me wonder what is going on with the service in bike shops?

[Alex Lag]

So I have to earn the shop's business and not the other way around...interesting.

You offer myself good service and a reasonable price and guess what? ...you've earned my loyalty, period, end of story.

Des

Agreed, this is the way it should be!!!