View Full Version : Dark cycles-its only money, right?
Master Stacker
10-13-2004, 02:03 PM
I likes it.
Chro-moly, 11.7 lbs with shock, 2.75 stroke for 8.5 inches, and its even in my color!
I'm guess ing msrp will be over 2600 can, and i wish the website had some warranty info...pic of scarab frame (http://www.darkcycles.com/resources/product-images/scarab_graphics2%20copy.jpg)
TheGiggler
10-13-2004, 02:29 PM
yeah i love it. it's a pretty slick design, and the steel tubing looks pretty cool. with the secondary drive shaft it should pedal amazingly well too.
but i wish they would do a bike like that w/ 5-6", same design, maybe ~10lbs... a mini-scarab. not that i'd be able to afford it for a while anyways. ;)
Team2K
10-13-2004, 02:50 PM
wow... sweet lookin' frame :D whats the MSRP?
allex
10-13-2004, 03:28 PM
i saw it on jerry rig. its cool
GRIZZ
10-13-2004, 03:38 PM
looks sorta like a demo 9 to me, but i would ride one..whatt he frame worth
methods
10-13-2004, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by Jay T
looks sorta like a demo 9 to me, but i would ride one..whatt he frame worth
pinkbike's callin'
thedude
10-13-2004, 05:33 PM
This looks like good product development.
http://www.darkcycles.com/resources/product-images/scarab_graphics%20copy.jpg
http://www.darkcycles.com/resources/product-images/scarab_graphics2%20copy.jpg
I threw my leg over the first incarnation of the Scarab at the Bear Mountain DH this year and it felt pretty good. In fact the guy riding it (can't remember his name) beat my time in my first DH race.....bastard! ;)
The bike seems pretty good.....now if the price could just come down a little or include forks in the $3,400 price range.
sAFETY
10-13-2004, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by methods
pinkbike's callin'
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I would take that over demo 9 anyday
sooo nice details
PhotoFyffer
10-13-2004, 09:25 PM
love the look, would be a hard ride to build super light I guess, not too bad for steel. Is there a set price, for them yet. in Can dollars please.
GRIZZ
10-13-2004, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by methods
pinkbike's callin'
:fu: it just kind of reminds me of a more rugged demo 9..i would rather have that cause it actually looks like a bike and not some space age rocket scooter
peachy-B
10-13-2004, 10:50 PM
is that steel not titanium? looks almost like it's titanium.
spookymilk
10-13-2004, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by peachy-B
is that steel not titanium? looks almost like it's titanium.
It's all cro-mo.
Wicked bike and design but 3,400 is steep, even if it is hand-made and designed in BC :(
Originally posted by spookymilk
It's all cro-mo.
Wicked bike and design but 3,400 is steep, even if it is hand-made and designed in BC :(
esp. for a unproven design....
No sale....
the flying moose
10-14-2004, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by IFO
esp. for a unproven design....
No sale....
hahahah.
i think the only two things that have got your approval are the specializeds and the new fox fork. :P
TheGiggler
10-14-2004, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by IFO
esp. for a unproven design....
No sale....
how is that design unproven?
it's a single pivot with a second chain line driven at the pivot... i.e. should pedal amazing w/out an SPV shock.
nick1111
10-14-2004, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by statix
how is that design unproven?
it's a single pivot with a second chain line driven at the pivot... i.e. should pedal amazing w/out an SPV shock.
Perhaps he means structurally unproven and geometry etc.
peachy-B
10-14-2004, 10:07 AM
IFO also likes the Knolly bikes. :D
Originally posted by the flying moose
hahahah.
i think the only two things that have got your approval are the specializeds and the new fox fork. :P
the fox forks are proven too, i mean, theyve been on the market so long and their rear shocks never die! :rolleyes:
i think that frame looks deadly, the quality looks simply amazing and you can see that a significant amount of R and D has gone into the production model.
dark cycles
10-14-2004, 12:29 PM
Thanks all for your interest in our Scarab FS frame. The MSRP is $2940 for a frameset with shock. The warranty will cover 2 years manufacturer's defects for materials and workmanship, and 5 years of crash replacement at cost. Working with steel lets us offer beefy warranties, cause our bikes are built to last.
A lot of design and development has gone into the frame, and almost a year's worth of real-world big hit testing. If you'd like to find out more info about the Scarab or would like to be added to our mailing list for product releases, you can email me at info@darkcycles.com. Also check out our website at www.darkcycles.com.
Dark Cycles designs and manufactures all our products right here in Vancouver. We make a point of trying to hire fellow riders whereever possible, both as employees and as suppliers, because we think that keeping it in the family is a good way of building a better bike company while supporting the community as a whole. Keep telling us what you think of our stuff!
Team2K
10-14-2004, 12:51 PM
i like your approach
that frame looks sick.. i'd love to throw a leg over it
good luck :)
spookymilk
10-14-2004, 05:18 PM
2940 MSRP now....
OK, a handmade frame made in BC that supports a local company and with a kickass design that's cheaper than a Demo 9 has DEFINATELY got my attention now...hmmm, I might have to start saving.
I heard that the Scarab is really short in TT length making it not really suitable to DH racing...anyone can verify that?
Originally posted by statix
how is that design unproven?
it's a single pivot with a second chain line driven at the pivot... i.e. should pedal amazing w/out an SPV shock.
did i some how miss the 1000's of customers who have purchased this frame and ridden it for several seasons without any fialures to speak of ???
:???:
didnt think so... till then all the RnD in the world dont mean jack to the average Joe rider....
if you like the design (and im not saying its good/bad) then u should buy one...
personally i'd find it VERY hard to buy a first year product (esp. a FS bike) from a startup company...
the Knolly bike venture is no different... even thou i am doing resaerch into that design/frame...
spookymilk
10-14-2004, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by IFO
did i some how miss the 1000's of customers who have purchased this frame and ridden it for several seasons without any fialures to speak of ???
:???:
didnt think so... till then all the RnD in the world dont mean jack to the average Joe rider....
if you like the design (and im not saying its good/bad) then u should buy one...
personally i'd find it VERY hard to buy a first year product (esp. a FS bike) from a startup company...
the Knolly bike venture is no different... even thou i am doing resaerch into that design/frame...
I find that a rather oxymoronic statement. The Demo 9 had tons of rave before it was released along with you on the Demo 9 boat before it was even at stores...pretty much because it had the Big S endorsement and "tons of R&D".
Sorry, NO SALE :rolleyes:
Originally posted by spookymilk
I find that a rather oxymoronic statement. The Demo 9 had tons of rave before it was released along with you on the Demo 9 boat before it was even at stores...pretty much because it had the Big S endorsement and "tons of R&D".
Sorry, NO SALE :rolleyes:
hahha... think about it...
how many bikes have Spec. made before the Demo9 ????
hundreds, maybe thousands of designs ???
now how many designs have these new start-up companies made ??
usually ZERO...
sorry but i think Spec. has WAY mroe then earned some credentials for making new designs given their previous track record...
like i siad before if people liek the new bike, go for it...no ones stopping people from supporting the new companies..
my opinion dont count for jack vs. someones elses... we all have thoughts about bikes...
dont make one more important then the other....
Nelson
10-15-2004, 12:06 AM
Id ride a knolly in a second if I had the cash.
the flying moose
10-15-2004, 12:47 AM
i only wish i had the money for a scarab. having personally toured the facility during an interview and meeting most of the workers and having everything explained to me i would have no hesitations about buying from these guys and gals.
spookymilk
10-15-2004, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by IFO
hahha... think about it...
how many bikes have Spec. made before the Demo9 ????
hundreds, maybe thousands of designs ???
now how many designs have these new start-up companies made ??
usually ZERO...
sorry but i think Spec. has WAY mroe then earned some credentials for making new designs given their previous track record...
like i siad before if people liek the new bike, go for it...no ones stopping people from supporting the new companies..
my opinion dont count for jack vs. someones elses... we all have thoughts about bikes...
dont make one more important then the other....
The horst isn't Specialized design, they just own it. Of all the bikes using a horst-link you insist the Big S has the best one even though it's usually overpriced and not handmade....I don't get it :???:
Originally posted by spookymilk
The horst isn't Specialized design, they just own it. Of all the bikes using a horst-link you insist the Big S has the best one even though it's usually overpriced and not handmade....I don't get it :???:
actually, it kind of is. specialized hired horst leitner in the early 90's to design their first FS bike. mr. leitner went on to AMP research bikes, which had qc issues with their bikes. rights to the horst link were then sold to specialized.
mtb has such a rich history
sleeper72
10-15-2004, 06:14 PM
I think the point is that Specialized and any other large bike company has experience building and engineering bikes. The issue isn't the particular handling characteristics or suspension design, it's confidence that the thing won't fall apart.
With a brand new bike from a company that has no history you are going on faith that they or the shops they hire even know how to weld, let alone engineer the structure of the bike. Also, if the bike turns out to be shit then the company will probably fold and you'll be left with a worthless bike. And what good is a warranty if the company doesn't exist next year?
Shmoe
10-15-2004, 06:51 PM
Im with IFO.
When norco/specialized/giant or the big names make a new bike the odds of it failing are rare. Although it does happen (2000 RM-6's come to mind).
The dark may be an amazing bike, but im not going to be the first to test it.
To tell you the truth. I think that the VPP style linkage (V10's, DW-links, new giants) are going to make over the full suspension market soon. You wouldnt see me buying a single pivot anytime soon.. Unless I wanted a pure race bike of course.
Originally posted by sleeper72
I think the point is that Specialized and any other large bike company has experience building and engineering bikes. The issue isn't the particular handling characteristics or suspension design, it's confidence that the thing won't fall apart.
With a brand new bike from a company that has no history you are going on faith that they or the shops they hire even know how to weld, let alone engineer the structure of the bike. Also, if the bike turns out to be shit then the company will probably fold and you'll be left with a worthless bike. And what good is a warranty if the company doesn't exist next year?
EXACTLY.... this guy gets my point....
nick1111
10-15-2004, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by Shmoe
To tell you the truth. I think that the VPP style linkage (V10's, DW-links, new giants) are going to make over the full suspension market soon. You wouldnt see me buying a single pivot anytime soon.. Unless I wanted a pure race bike of course.
That's far to generalized. You have to really understand the reasons behind all the different suspension designs. One VP is not the same as another, nor is one single pivot the same as another.
Im definately saving up for the frame and a hot hadley hub :drool:
love the works darkcycles! I am astonished by the weight at full 4130 frame!
Shmoe
10-16-2004, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by nick1111
That's far to generalized. You have to really understand the reasons behind all the different suspension designs. One VP is not the same as another, nor is one single pivot the same as another.
Ummm ok. Im just saying, bikes with pivots closer to the center of the frame, with no dropout pivot are going to be the future. The possibilities of VPP linkage bikes are huge, single pivots are pretty much as good as they are going to get. Yes not all single pivots are the same, but they all share the same suspension concept.
Loopie
10-16-2004, 01:25 AM
I'm also not a fan of single pivot bikes. EXCEPT when the pivot is very high and designed to have a rearward arc at the axle AND it has the high chainline to match. The BB7 is the only one I've tried personally that has those qualities....but I bet a Brooklyn and PDC (among others) also work about the same....and now the Scarab. I think they chose a sweet design:cool:
Time will tell.....but I do feel that the price point is going to be very crucial.
Originally posted by sleeper72
Also, if the bike turns out to be shit then the company will probably fold and you'll be left with a worthless bike. And what good is a warranty if the company doesn't exist next year?
some serious irony there
outland had a great idea and concept with vpp, but they could not match up the quality on there frames and had to fold, and its a shame. who knew that vpp would come back the way that it has, using in essence 8-10 year old technology.
dark cycles
10-19-2004, 04:06 PM
With a brand new bike from a company that has no history you are going on faith that they or the shops they hire even know how to weld, let alone engineer the structure of the bike. Also, if the bike turns out to be shit then the company will probably fold and you'll be left with a worthless bike. And what good is a warranty if the company doesn't exist next year?
I totally understand the concerns about buying a big ticket item from a new company, so I'd like to give you some of our backstory. Dark Cycles is a new venture of our custom manufacturing business that has been around for 7 years. We have a full-time staff of 35, 25 of whom are mechanical and material engineers or journeymen machinists and toolmakers. For the past three years, we have won awards for being one of the top technology companies in BC. We are certified to the ISO 9001:2000 standard for everything we design and manufacture, which is an international standard for quality assurance.
For a number of years we have been designing and manufacturing bike stuff for other companies to sell under their own brand names. You may very well have something on your bike that we made, you just don't know it.
We launched our own line of bikes and components under the Dark Cycles name for a lot of reasons. Our custom manufacturing business is rider-owned. We actively try to hire riders whenever possible, so most of the people that work here also love to ride. For a long time, the staff here has been using our machinery and equipment to make parts for their own bikes, and to make their own bike frames. Pretty soon, people from outside our company were wanting to buy the stuff we were making, so we collectively decided to commit to building our own bike company. We're in it for the long haul, with access to significant financial resources from our custom manufacturing business.
The long and short of it is, we are definitely going to be around next year to honour warranties and bring out more cool products for 2005. While Dark Cycles is not a one-person-hacking-bikes-together-in-a-garage kind of operation, we're not a big corporate behemoth either. We have no marketing department or slick sales guys, we're just a bunch of riders trying to make the kind of bikes and components that we want to use when we hit the trails ourselves.
Anyone who wants to hear more dark secrets, or who is interested in checking out our products or facilities or who wants to submit their resumes for jobs that come up, email me at info@darkcycles.com.
EVRAC
10-19-2004, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by the flying moose
i only wish i had the money for a scarab. having personally toured the facility during an interview and meeting most of the workers and having everything explained to me i would have no hesitations about buying from these guys and gals.
i don't remember anyone saying hi, when did you stop by the shop?
Loopie
10-19-2004, 05:57 PM
^nice:cool:
sirbikealot
10-21-2004, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by spookymilk
It's all cro-mo.
Wicked bike and design but 3,400 is steep, even if it is hand-made and designed in BC :(
believe me that design is proven
i've been watching and riding with Ryan the designer for years and he's been hucking and racing that thing all over the place, the suspension design is not exactly revolutionary, it is essentially based on systems that are already out there, he just improved upon them
the flying moose
10-21-2004, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by EVRAC
i don't remember anyone saying hi, when did you stop by the shop?
it was a while ago. in march or april i think. i met 5 or 6 different people there. lisa was showing me around and showed me all the cnc machines etc.
FreaK
10-23-2004, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by dark cycles
.......g the community as a whole. Keep telling us what you think of our stuff!
I think it looked cooler with the one piece type swingarm. I just knew the rear end had gotten more complex.
I think i've mentioned it before but the welds look very neat, very even and smooth, i'm talking more of the HAZ than the bead itself. purty.
so nice...
They will have to compromise the quality and bring the price down if they want to make it in this industry though... sad but true.
EDIT: are you guys working on any kick ass hard tail frmes at the moment? With those kinds of welds and creativity, you could have a real seller right there if you can keep the price some what reasonable.
Trollbum
10-24-2004, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by the flying moose
it was a while ago. in march or april i think. i met 5 or 6 different people there. lisa was showing me around and showed me all the cnc machines etc.
yeah i guess i woulnd't remember you as i started there in september:P
Furious
10-25-2004, 10:19 PM
I think the bike looks really slick, definately the nicest chromoly FS bike out there.
Throw a new boxxer or Fox DH40 on there and choose a reasonable wheelset (ie no doublewides, no intense tires, no dh tubes) I'm sure the bike can be built to a reasonable weight.
Much of the weight is centered about the bb/pivot area under and slightly ahead of the rider so the bike will be fairly balanced.
Lots of standover height too.
Effective top tube is a touch on the short side I'm gonna guess it's in line with the first generation Cove Peelers... and that didn't seem to stop Cove from selling a truckload of Peelers in the first year...
Slack seattube angle means it might be uncomfortable to climb up the hill, but there is no shame in pushing it (sometimes it's faster than riding)
I find height at the headtube was a little lower than I'm used to, but thats probably in part due to the boxxer being a little on the short side. I had a hard time picking the front end up, but that's probably because I'm lame. I had a hard time picking up the front end of a BB7 as well.
$2940 isn't unreasonable, but I think it would be nice if the rear triangle had a thru-axle at that price... or perhaps a thru-axle upgrade option?
I think it's like any other $3000 frame though -- it's hard to drop the $$$ without taking it out for a rip or two. The only way I'd ever pony up the $$$ for a Demo8 or Demo9 is by taking one out for a spin from one of the rental shops at Whistler, or borrowing one from a friend. I'd have no problem dropping $100 to try out a new bike at the park..
Moocowsia
10-26-2004, 01:49 AM
Hm.... I just realized you guys are just down the street from my school. When are you guys going to start making those 4 hole chain rings btw?
RITALIN
10-26-2004, 03:57 PM
sweet bike
I think im gonna start saving
thedude
10-26-2004, 04:47 PM
Is this a hardtail I see??
http://www.darkcycles.com/resources/product-images/hardtail%20copy.jpg
EVRAC
10-26-2004, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by Moocowsia
When are you guys going to start making those 4 hole chain rings btw?
at least a month ago.
michelin man
01-17-2005, 10:11 PM
any updates will u guys be at bike expo in vancouver:???:
EVRAC
01-17-2005, 11:33 PM
updates?? well 10 more frames are in production right now, won't be ready for a while but i'm sure there's a few available to purchase. these are rare bikes kids.
Rosscofat
01-17-2005, 11:58 PM
wait you make the frames? I sent you guys a email asking about info but I thought u guys were not around so I stoped thinkin about buying your frame :(
dark cycles
01-18-2005, 10:11 AM
We get a lot of email to our general address, so it's possible yours was missed. What was your question Rossco?
jeremyb
01-18-2005, 12:17 PM
Thats a great looking frame, respect for what you guys are doing!!
I ride a steel fully made here in NZ by Keewee, www.keewee.co.nz and I've built mine up to be sub 40lbs, it can be strong and light, steel rules!
michelin man
01-18-2005, 01:07 PM
dark cycles i sent u a email yesterday.....
michelin man
01-18-2005, 04:57 PM
will they be at the expo:???:
Moocowsia
01-18-2005, 05:05 PM
Do you guys let people buy directly off you?
michelin man
01-18-2005, 05:32 PM
moo they say that they want to sell directly to the custmor
Rosscofat
01-18-2005, 05:52 PM
question was is that frame able to ride nicely with a 6" slider on it. without having the GEO messed up in some way ALSO what is the headtube length?
michelin man
01-18-2005, 06:10 PM
also, is their a problem with break jack and does the tire hit the seat when fully compressed
dark cycles
01-18-2005, 06:34 PM
Well having a 6" slider is not going to mess up the GEO, and it's still going to ride nicely but there is going to be a suspension differential, because you've got 8.5" of travel in the back.
Rosscofat
01-18-2005, 07:03 PM
is there no adjustment
Moocowsia
01-18-2005, 07:37 PM
Ahh sweet, I might have to come and knock on your guys door in a couple days. It's been to too cold to clearcoat my frame recently so I'm just about to rebuild. :D
michelin man
01-18-2005, 10:50 PM
what about the brake jack?
michelin man
01-19-2005, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Rosscofat
is there no adjustment
ya im also wondering that too ross, i dont think so though:(
Wayne P
01-19-2005, 01:16 PM
I think the bike looks rad. Surprisingly lighter than many frames out there.
Give the guy a break. Dark Side is new the game, so why bash the product? Most of these small builders are pushing the envelope for suspension design and creativity. Without them, the MTB world would be rather boring don't you think?
It's a similar style to the BB7 and Trek Deisel, which are both great bikes.
michelin man
01-19-2005, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Wayne Parsons
I think the bike looks rad. Surprisingly lighter than many frames out there.
Give the guy a break. Dark Side is new the game, so why bash the product? Most of these small builders are pushing the envelope for suspension design and creativity. Without them, the MTB world would be rather boring don't you think?
It's a similar style to the BB7 and Trek Deisel, which are both great bikes.
totally agree!
dark cycles
01-19-2005, 03:01 PM
You are correct. There is no adjustment because the compression ratio is very finely-tuned to the amount of travel.
There is minimal brake jack, because we've got the pivot location just right.
We're glad to field any questions you have, and if you like, do drop us an email if you would like to demo a bike for an afternoon sometime. info@darkcycles.com
TheGiggler
01-19-2005, 03:13 PM
it's brack squat!
brake jack would mean the rear end rises, causing you to feel like you're endoing.
[/anal retentiveness = off]
i'd like to try your bike for sure one day...
so the pivot point is so good for braking that it's not worth adding a floating brake??
*GiMpY_jR*
01-19-2005, 09:39 PM
What is/are the size/s? and how tall of a person would it suit best?
Zedbra
01-20-2005, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by IFO
esp. for a unproven design....
No sale....
and that is why the Demo 9's are cracking in only a few months....no sale.
Rosscofat
01-21-2005, 12:56 AM
NO sale to Duallies NO SALE.. they all crack well except turner :P
TheGiggler
01-21-2005, 01:03 AM
BUY MY TURNER DHR Will trade for a light Heckler.
i wish i had another Heckler. i love the DHR.
zed, are you just gonna run a Heckler and the Chap??
xy9ine
01-21-2005, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by statix
it's brack squat!
brake jack would mean the rear end rises, causing you to feel like you're endoing.
[/anal retentiveness = off]
good point! single pivots do not jack, they squat. :P common terminology miss-use.
Zedbra
01-21-2005, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by statix
i wish i had another Heckler. i love the DHR.
zed, are you just gonna run a Heckler and the Chap??
The Heckler will be for my wife - and I will adopt the Chap.
The Chap is too much bike for her, and probably will be for a long time. A lightweight Heckler is best suited for her riding style. If I sell the Turner, she gets a new bike!
zed you should borrow my heckler for a few weeks and let her bag on it. make sure its the right bike for her. oh and lets ride this weekend
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