You're lock doesn't work! PLEASE READ

[sAFETY]

In the interest of informing the honest riders first:

http://thirdrate.com/misc/krypto.mov

and

http://biginjapan.com/extranet/assets/ben/krypto_ev_disc_web.mov

comprimising a kryptonite bike lock with a ballpoint pen? I want my $$ back!!

[Putty]

i got compromised with a ball point pen once.

[sAFETY]

Mods, delete this if you feel you should, but I think it's in everyone's best interest to stay informed of the inadequecies of their security systems. Imagine losing your bike and THEN finding out that the locks sucked.

I'm sure the thieves already knew this, and we all know that security through obscurity rarely works, especially on this scale.

[the flying moose]

holy crap.

[Del]

high end krypto locks dont use the typical bike key, circle sorta style anymore but a way more complicated one (see below post)that is hard to explain but wouldnt work with a pen like that. :cool: but that is really freaky for all other locks, esp on a campus or something :(

[Del]

http://www.kryptonitelock.com/articles/3035/180104x2.gif

[corey@nsmb.com]

It's gotta be rigged. I don't buy it. Those locks are probably busted and some guy is trying to be a hero by pretending to pick them.

Anyone got a u-lock to test my theory?

[sAFETY]

I don't know man. The Kensington Locks that operate with a similar locking mechanism for securing laptops has been identified as having a similar weakness.

[tashi]

That's kinda scary (I've got one of those little yellow locks), buuut I think that the point of locks is to deter a thief from choosing your bike (or car, boat, skis, etc) and to choose another one, not to provide the ulitmate in protection, as anything can be broken into.

A ballpoint pen though? Jeebus.

[Shocker]

Theres one of those kryptonite U locks in the back of my truck that I dont have the key to and its locked around a latch, I'm going to go test this theory.

[Shocker]

Uhh, I couldn't do it. The end of the pen didn't quite fit in the lock however it was close, therefor, its possible but not as easy as he makes it look. IMO.

[Roasted]

Check out some of the other forums. This is being done and working well. Not 100% but is has worked for others...

[X2sandman]

I was reading about this earlier today and got linked over to

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=66128&page=6&pp=25

Scroll down a few posts and they start talking about it and i think the next page has videos

There are two videos of two seperate people doing it and succeding in getting it to work. Just a heads up.

[ratherberiding]

Originally posted by corey@nsmb.com
It's gotta be rigged. I don't buy it. Those locks are probably busted and some guy is trying to be a hero by pretending to pick them.

Anyone got a u-lock to test my theory?

i tried it it took me a while to do but once i got the hang of it its easy.i had to stretch the pens tube to make it fit in there but yea it still worked.

[switch]

That lock in the first vid - that's what my brother had on his bike. The thief used a clamp on the endof the U (at the lock end), tightened the clamp, and the end popped off.

With the Krypto locks, you can buy insurance. $10 USD for a years coverage ($1250 USD coverage). The more expensive locks have higher coverage.

[corey@nsmb.com]

Originally posted by ratherberiding
i tried it it took me a while to do but once i got the hang of it its easy.i had to stretch the pens tube to make it fit in there but yea it still worked.

Seriously?

That's scary. Yikes.

It would be good if the lock manufacturer's knew this. They can put all kinds of money into the metal materials, but maybe it should go into the lock and key mechanism!

[Late Bloomer]

Worked as a bike courier for 6 years and never had my krypto lock jimmied, nor knew of anybody else that did. Only bikes that got ripped off w/ those locks were ones that weren't secured to a solid object (parking meter, bikerack, etc).

I'm waiting for a lock that has a built in tazer that goes off whenever the lock is opened w/o a key. I'd deliberately put a sign that said "steal me" on my bike and hide in the bushes w/ a video camera.

Well, no I wouldn't...that's just too damned boring and somebody would suspect that I was an Al Qaida henchman.

[switch]

Originally posted by Late Bloomer
I'm waiting for a lock that has a built in tazer that goes off whenever the lock is opened w/o a key.

:lol:

Like the car security system in Robocop. Fries the thief, yet still leaves enough juice in the batter to turn the car over.

Use a hardened chain and a good padlock. Doesn't cost any more, and it works.

[Late Bloomer]

Originally posted by switch
:lol:

Like the car security system in Robocop. Fries the thief, yet still leaves enough juice in the batter to turn the car over.

Use a hardened chain and a good padlock. Doesn't cost any more, and it works. EXACTLY!!!

Yeah, my buddy uses one of those New York locks (read: heavy-ass chain w/ butch keylock) when we stop off to eat/shop before and after rides.
Wouldn't want to stuff one of those in my backpack, though. They are most heavy, indeed.

[timber]

I just tried it and it took me less than a minute to unlock my Krypto with a ball point pen. The lock is busted now but I'd never use again anyway.

[Zedbra]

Thats unreal - what a crappy product :mad:

[eeyun]

Ack! What kind of locks is this for? I can't watch the movie at work.

I paid 150 bucks for one of those big mutha chain locks with the little yellow u-lock, and I'm gonna be pissed if it won't keep my bike safe from a ball-point pen weilding theif.
http://www.kryptonitelock.com/articles/2736/730149x2.gif

:mad:

[sAFETY]

Got bad news for ya buddy.....

[umbullit]

ii have the same lock as the one shown above, only with the ramped key.
Someone is gonna die!!!!!!

[eeyun]

Originally posted by sAFETY
Got bad news for ya buddy.....

That's it. I'm officially pouting. <crosses arms on chest>

But seriously... what the hell are we supposed to do?

[Kye]

phone kryptonite

[Mountain Dewd]

I just tried for like 10 mins, i couldnt resist but the pen broke before i could get it in far enough to feel like it would engage.

But i did use like a 20 year old lock that was beat to hell so it might just be harder cause its rusty and shit.

I think the first one looks fake, but the second one looks kinda real. i am not sure what to think.

but i did think it was halrious eeyun posted that pic, i just was like, what luck, couldnt see the vids and had the exact lock they used in one :lol:

[eeyun]

Originally posted by wisc fr-rider
but i did think it was halrious eeyun posted that pic, i just was like, what luck, couldnt see the vids and had the exact lock they used in one :lol:

son of a! :lol:

[switch]

Originally posted by eeyun
I paid 150 bucks for one of those big mutha chain locks with the little yellow u-lock, and I'm gonna be pissed if it won't keep my bike safe from a ball-point pen weilding theif.

Originally posted by switch
With the Krypto locks, you can buy insurance. $10 USD for a years coverage ($1250 USD coverage). The more expensive locks have higher coverage.

$3K USD for the "good" locks.

[KOW49]

I dont use locks.......

Now If your thinking about bashing the top of my post please read the following first

I do not leave my bike unattended anywhere anytime unless its home sitting where its supposed to be. using locks are taking a risk. they only place I would ever put a bike is in a secured bike locker. A stop to get something to eat is not worth my bike.

[Rampager]

Originally posted by KOW49
I dont use locks.......

Now If your thinking about bashing the top of my post please read the following first

I do not leave my bike unattended anywhere anytime unless its home sitting where its supposed to be. using locks are taking a risk. they only place I would ever put a bike is in a secured bike locker. A stop to get something to eat is not worth my bike.


Well said.


My buddy Evan left his bike outside the barber shop while he got his haircut. Then when hes done, his bike isnt there anymore. I think it was his own damn fault.

[bighitbikerNS]

I don't understand how the pen is opening it. my krypto lock has this big tubelar steal chain part into the lock and uses a circle key. can this be picked open? and how can you jam a bic into a normal keyhole anyhow? isn't it a little wide?

[Faithless]

someone told me how he locks up his bike into his house (no names mentioned)

he locks onto the heater with a chain thats about the size of your fist per link.

[Kye]

you take the bac of the pen, the right size bic fits in, sometimes you must pound it in, then you wiggle and turn until it clicks open:eek:

[bighitbikerNS]

the little circle on my lock, the inner metal part is bigger than a bic.

[Late Bloomer]

It's so sad that the largest manufactured bike locks can be compromised by a disposable pen.
:crazy:

[bighitbikerNS]

still no luck with the bic.

[sleeper72]

I thought this was overblown, but I just tried it with slightly modified pen cap and POP, it opened in about 10 seconds.

It's a similar technique to how you'd pick a normal lock, by putting pressure on the cylinder while raking the pins. It's just unfortunate that the correct sized tool for it just happens to be a common pen.

While I never considered a lock to be much defense against theft, I at least counted on it requiring some attention-getting and time-consuming violence to overcome. This technique is really quiet and easy. You wouldn't be able to tell if someone was stealing the bike or just opening the lock with their key.

[Late Bloomer]

D'OH!!!
I wish I would have known about this several years back when I was a courier.
I somehow dropped my keyloop down an elevator shaft and my backup keys were at home. I missed 1/2 day of work because of that.
http://www.geocities.com/firedemon_104/homer77.gif

[bighitbikerNS]

my krypto requires that once the key is in the circle, you gotta turn it a 1/4 turn. i tried using the pen cap, cause it fit fine, and no luck so far.

[fcf-spec]

Originally posted by bighitbikerNS
my krypto requires that once the key is in the circle, you gotta turn it a 1/4 turn. i tried using the pen cap, cause it fit fine, and no luck so far.


Thats the same with both of mine. Although next time I get a chance I'm gonna try it out with both my kryptos and see. I'll post video if i can get it to work.

[umbullit]

Now is this a compromise for the circular keys, or the ramped keys? or what the hell is the deal?
Im still crankin skulls:mad:

[sleeper72]

Originally posted by umbullit
Now is this a compromise for the circular keys, or the ramped keys? or what the hell is the deal?
Im still crankin skulls:mad:

If by ramped keys you mean the flat, "normal" type of keys, you're ok. It only affects the circular keys.

[umbullit]

so this only applies to the keys that are circular..
the ramped key, is a flat key, but unlike others, it has ramps that set off the pins inside, not the normal style.

haa. so i may not have to worry after all.
less skulls will be smashed

[sAFETY]

FYI:

Kryptonite’s response:

We understand there are concerns regarding tubular cylinders used in some Kryptonite locks. The tubular cylinder, a standard industry-wide design, has been successfully used for more than 30 years in our products and other security applications without significant issues.

The current Kryptonite locks based on a tubular cylinder design continue to present an effective deterrent to theft. As part of our continuing commitment to produce performance and improved security, Kryptonite has been developing a disc-style cylinder for some years. In 2000, Kryptonite introduced the disc-style cylinder in its premier line of products, the New York series. In 2002, Kryptonite began development of a new disc cylinder system for both its Evolution and KryptoLok product lines, which currently use the tubular cylinder design. These products are scheduled to be introduced in the next few weeks.

We are accelerating the delivery of the new disc cylinder locks and we will communicate directly with our distributors, dealers and consumers within the coming days. The world just got tougher and so did our locks.

[yellowdogx]

Originally posted by sAFETY
FYI:

So basically: "Boy.... yep your sure right our looks suck balls. Now run on out and but one of our new $50 pad locks"

Sorry I am a little pissed off after buying one of their HUGE ass padlocks and chains for big $$ (with circular lock) only to find out some crank head with a bic can get into it!:mad:

Hello warrenty/exchange program!!!

Thats what NSMB should test next! Locks, how easy and by which methods they are opened. Its not like every thief on the street doesnt know how to do it already!

[NOM4D]

i work at a bike shop here in SOMA in s.f, (tons of messengers), we have been selling the new york3000 lock like hotcakes. (it uses the non circular key)... i saw this guy bite a pen, shove the end into a lock, and open the damn thing, then do it again, all in like a mintute.. this is ridiculous.

[bighitbikerNS]

I STILL CAN"T OPEN MY LOCK WITH A BIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sAFETY]

Originally posted by NOM4D
i work at a bike shop here in SOMA in s.f, (tons of messengers), we have been selling the new york3000 lock like hotcakes. (it uses the non circular key)... i saw this guy bite a pen, shove the end into a lock, and open the damn thing, then do it again, all in like a mintute.. this is ridiculous.

Open the NY3000 or a circular key Ulock?

I was going to get one of those, but maybe I shouldn't

[sleeper72]

Originally posted by sAFETY
Open the NY3000 or a circular key Ulock?

I was going to get one of those, but maybe I shouldn't

I believe the NY3000 is "Bic proof" haha. They're selling like hotcakes because everyone is freaking out to replace their circular key locks.

There's a vid at this site showing the technique. Shockingly easy.
http://www.engadget.com/entry/7796925370303347/

I'm so glad I didn't buy the expensive lock when I was looking around awhile ago.

[NOM4D]

i just did it... CRAAAP...

[NOM4D]

Originally posted by sAFETY
Open the NY3000 or a circular key Ulock?

I was going to get one of those, but maybe I shouldn't
the circular key one... the new york 3000 u-lock has the straight key thing.. i just did it to an EV2000, one that sells for 60 usd.

[sAFETY]

Yeah, I used to own a NY3000, but lost it when my bike was stolen.

They got the bike, the lock, and the rack it was locked to.....

:mad:

[Wes]

The world just got tougher and so did our locks.


So the world just invented ball point pens? Silly me. There I was, thinbking ball point pens have been around for years. What was I thinking?

[NOM4D]

Originally posted by Wes
What was I thinking?
i dunno, you are canadian. ;)

[NOM4D]

so, i put a bunch of triflo into the lock barrel of the lock i picked a couple times.. i could get it to work, with the same pen i used or a new pen... it wont grab the center part to turn the barrel....
mayeb this could be a deterent?...

[sanrensho]

Originally posted by yellowdogx
I am a little pissed off after buying one of their HUGE ass padlocks and chains for big $$ (with circular lock) only to find out some crank head with a bic can get into it!:mad:

Hello warrenty/exchange program!!!


There may be hope. From the N.Y. Times:

"In a statement sent by e-mail yesterday, the company said that it was aware of the problem and was moving quickly to get locks featuring a different mechanism to bike shops and that it was designing a program to let users of compromised locks to upgrade to new ones."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/17/nyregion/17lock.html

The Pen Is Mightier Than the Lock

By LYDIA POLGREEN

Published: September 17, 2004

The cunning bicycle thieves of New York City always seem to be one step ahead of lockmakers. Design a more sophisticated lock and the thieves make a better pick. Make a sturdier chain and they get bigger bolt cutters. And if all else fails, they just dig up the parking meter or stop sign to unshackle the bike from it. But to open some of the toughest locks on the market, a thief needs only to flick his Bic pen.

Many cyclists erupted in disbelief and anger this week after videos were posted on the Internet showing how a few seconds of work could pick many of the most expensive and common U-shaped locks, including several models made by Kryptonite, the most recognized brand.

Mashing the empty barrel of a ballpoint pen into the cylindrical keyhole and turning it clockwise does the trick that has struck fear into the hearts of bicycle owners, especially those in New York, where thousands of bikes are stolen each year.

"There was murmuring on various Web sites, and so I decided to go home and pick up a pen and see it if works," said Benjamin Running, a graphic designer who lives in downtown Brooklyn. "Sure enough, within 30 seconds I had broken into my $90 lock. I was in awe. My jaw literally dropped to the floor. It was so easy."

And many Internet users had the same reaction this week when they saw the homemade video he posted on his blog of his Kryptonite NY Chain popping open.

The problem could have wider consequences. Lock experts said the fault was with a particular type of cylindrical lock that is used not just in bike locks but in vending machines, cable locks for laptop computers, alarm system panels and countless other places.

Not all such locks are vulnerable, because some are built with more sophistication. Older Kryptonite locks made before 2002 appear to be less susceptible, according to bike shops that have tried to use the technique on them.

But this type of mechanism is used on most of the bicycle locks that are used by millions of people around the country, not just those made by Kryptonite (although the company said yesterday that a new and better model was on the way).

As the news spread, bicycle shops across the nation pulled the locks off their shelves and cyclists left their bikes at home, wondering if anything could keep their wheels safe.

"You would think for $80 for a bike lock it would be secure," said Marc Weber Tobias, an investigative lawyer and security expert, whose Web site, security.org, has posted warnings about the flaws of cylindrical locks like the ones used in U-locks. "But this doesn't surprise me at all."

The trick works because the pen has the right diameter and is rigid enough to hold its general shape but pliable enough to mold into a sort of key that opens the lock. Mr. Tobias said the vulnerability of such locks was well known in security circles.

"These are cheaply manufactured locks with serious design flaws," he said. "You can't possibly think your bike is safe with one of these locks."

The uproar appears to have started on Sunday, when Chris Brennan, a cyclist in San Francisco, posted an urgent message on the bikeforums.net bulletin board after he was able to pop open his lock with a pen.

Like many people, he had been skeptical, but doubts were quickly dispelled when users like Mr. Running started posting digital video clips of the trick. By yesterday, 125,000 people had downloaded it from, his site, thirdrate.com, he said. Meanwhile, nearly 170,000 had seen Mr. Brennan's posting, starting a full-fledged panic.

"We are especially concerned because we thought these were the best," said Noah Budnick, projects director at Transportation Alternatives, an advocacy group representing bicyclists in New York City. "Our members get a discount on these locks. What is really shocking is the casualness with which someone could steal a bike with one of these locks on it."

Kryptonite, which is based in Canton, Mass., and was bought by Ingersoll-Rand in 2001, is named for the only material that can defeat Superman. The company has been making locks since the 1970's and is recognized by most bicycle shops as the leading lockmaker.

It is so confident in the security of its locks that if a bicycle is stolen by someone who broke the lock, Kryptonite will pay up to $3,500 to replace the bike, depending on the model of lock, though there are several caveats to the policy. Bike shops in New York City overwhelmingly recommend the company's locks, particularly the four locks that are designed specifically for New York riders.

In a statement sent by e-mail yesterday, the company said that it was aware of the problem and was moving quickly to get locks featuring a different mechanism to bike shops and that it was designing a program to let users of compromised locks to upgrade to new ones.

Donna M. Tocci, a spokeswoman for the company, stressed that locks made by other manufacturers shared the same vulnerabilities.

Cyclists across the city marveled at how easy it was to crack their locks. With a little practice, opening a Kryptonite with a Bic barrel takes as little time as using a key, said Arone Dyer, a mechanic at Bicycle Habitat in SoHo. She produced the white plastic barrel of a Bic pen from her pocket along with a Kryptonite brand lock and provided a demonstration. In less than five seconds, the shackle popped and slid open.

"It is that easy," Ms. Dyer said.

The NY Chain lock, the product most shops recommend for city cyclists, consists of a heavy chain and small U-shaped lock. It weighs about six pounds, so heavy that many riders wear it slung around their waists. The chain is made of squared links of hardened steel that is impossible to cut by hand, so that part of the lock is still sound.

Bike shops are recommending that customers replace the small U-lock with a sturdy padlock, like the ones that bodegas use to secure their roll-down gates. These padlocks cost less than $20 at most hardware stores.

In addition, Kryptonite has a line of locks that feature flat keys; Transportation Alternatives recommended that its members buy one of those.

The group's Mr. Budnick said that most bike thefts could be prevented if only office buildings allowed people to bring their bicycles indoors, but few do. A bill requiring buildings to allow bikes inside was introduced by City Councilman David Yassky but has been stuck in the Housing and Buildings Committee.

Will Wood, whose Spokes and Strings shop in Williamsburg caters to the commuter market, said he was warning anyone who would listen.

"I feel like a Cassandra, but for years I have said to my customers, 'This is the industry standard, and this will keep your bike safe,' " Mr. Wood said. "Now I tell everyone who comes in, 'Tell your friends before the thieves tell theirs.' ''

[Mountain Dewd]

:lol:

I wonder if criminals have known this for awhile, or if someone just recently figured this out.

http://www.pinkbike.com/modules/news/?op=articleview&id=2205
:rolleyes:

[Kye]

hahaha i just bought my new york 3000, it cant be hacked with a pen, so lucky

[Neo]

my bike will simply fall apart if anyone else rides it.

[sanrensho]

Originally posted by wisc fr-rider
:lol:

I wonder if criminals have known this for awhile, or if someone just recently figured this out.


Apparently, something was posted about this way back in 1992.

However, it obviously wasn't common knowledge among thieves as brute force methods seem to be more widely used.

[bighitbikerNS]

I STILL CAN"T OPEN MY DAMN LOCK WITH A BIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the metal centre is bigger than the inside diameter of the bic, so it doesn't go in. the lid fits fine, but won't open anything. i've been trying to open this thing for like 2 hours and no luck. WHY ISN"T THIS WORKING!!?????????????????????????????????????

[NOM4D]

Originally posted by bighitbikerNS
I STILL CAN"T OPEN MY DAMN LOCK WITH A BIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the metal centre is bigger than the inside diameter of the bic, so it does go in. the lid fits fine, but won't open anything. i've been trying to open this thing for like 2 hours and no luck. WHY ISN"T THIS WORKING!!?????????????????????????????????????
you have a lock from pre- 2002.. they apparently dont work as well... they have a bigger core dealie

[bighitbikerNS]

^ i guess i don't have to buy a new one then. and ya, i've had this lock for like 4 years. my last "super tuff" krypto lock got cut with scissors.

[bighitbikerNS]

i almost want to buy one the faulty locks just to see if i can open it.

[Late Bloomer]

Originally posted by bighitbikerNS
i almost want to buy one the faulty locks just to see if i can open it.
I think you would be better served by just sending me the money you would spend on that...I would do something more productive with it;)

[*GiMpY_jR*]

Originally posted by KOW49
I dont use locks.......

Now If your thinking about bashing the top of my post please read the following first

I do not leave my bike unattended anywhere anytime unless its home sitting where its supposed to be. using locks are taking a risk. they only place I would ever put a bike is in a secured bike locker. A stop to get something to eat is not worth my bike.

my bike got stolen while i was on it
SCORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

[bighitbikerNS]

Originally posted by Late Bloomer
I think you would be better served by just sending me the money you would spend on that...I would do something more productive with it;)

Define productive.

[Shmoe]

They open very easily with a pen.. Almost as easy as cutting their regular Wire style locks.

Once two keys litterally melted when I was borring the lock from a friend. I twisted the key in the lock and it just kinda snapped in half, backup key did the same.. Needle-nose pliers and shimano cable cutters had it open in no time.

I try not to use locks, they can all be broken, I dont care what the company says. And even if the lock didnt brake, wheels/forks/brakes are damn easy to take.

[Bukkake]

Originally posted by NOM4D
i work at a bike shop here in SOMA in s.f, (tons of messengers), we have been selling the new york3000 lock like hotcakes. (it uses the non circular key)... i saw this guy bite a pen, shove the end into a lock, and open the damn thing, then do it again, all in like a mintute.. this is ridiculous.

You're kidding!!! :eek:

So even the new flat key design is vulnerable!????

[bighitbikerNS]

looks like i will never be able to ride to 7 eleven again to get a slurpee cause i can't lock my bike up.:(

[Late Bloomer]

Originally posted by bighitbikerNS
looks like i will never be able to ride to 7 eleven again to get a slurpee cause i can't lock my bike up.:(
I am beginning to sense a new trend...riding our bikes into the stores/restaurants/etc. that we patronize. I hope they are understanding.

[MrPrime]

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[sleeper72]

check out Kryponitelocks.com

Looks like they are going to replace certain affected locks bought in the last 2 years for free.

I was in a few bike shops on the weekend, and alot of them were still selling the locks. Only MEC seemed to be aware of the problem.

[sanrensho]

Originally posted by sleeper72
Only MEC seemed to care about the problem.

Funny, as soon as this whole flap started, I began wondering when MEC would pull their stock.

[sleeper72]

Originally posted by sanrensho
Funny, as soon as this whole flap started, I began wondering when MEC would pull their stock.

Before some LBS people get all upset, I said "aware of" not "care about". I give the other shops the benefit of the doubt and presume they care, but just weren't aware of it.
MEC posted signs on their bike racks suggesting people not use locks with cylinder keys until things get sorted out. I didn't check if they actually removed their locks from the shelves. Ironically, I tried picking my friend's cheap MEC brand U-lock, and couldn't.

[sAFETY]

I think that the MEC locks have a larger barrel making them require more than a Bic pen casing to open. Might need a sharpie or something....:rolleyes: