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Putty
09-10-2004, 08:30 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A9594-2004Sep9?language=printer


MOSCOW, Sept. 9 -- Last week's attack on a Russian school has driven new wedges between Russia and the West in the fight against terrorism, as Moscow continues to accuse the United States and European countries of coddling Chechen separatists.

Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov denounced the United States and Britain on Thursday for granting asylum to Chechen opposition figures and told other countries to stay out of Russia's fight with rebels in the breakaway republic. Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov reiterated that Russia might launch strikes against terrorist bases in other countries.


snip

Lavrov also criticized the United States and Britain for harboring people Russia considers to be Chechen terrorists linked to rebel commander Aslan Maskhadov, whom it blames for the Beslan strike. Maskhadov has denied responsibility. Britain has granted asylum to Akhmad Zakayev, and the United States has given the same status to Ilyas Akhmadov. Both men were top officials in Maskhadov's government.

"Those who provide shelter to terrorists are directly responsible for the tragedy of the Chechen people," Lavrov said.


So the russians are now basically saying that they will do preemptive strikes on terror camps and those who harbour terrorirst, and consider US and England as countries who gave asylum to Chechnyan rebels.

Russia is throwing the US rhetoric on terro back in their face, essentially saying that they will do the same type of actions as the us is doing currently.

Interesting.




the flying moose
09-10-2004, 08:40 PM
wow. dint see that coming. i thought for sure that Russia would ally with the US and support the war on terror.

I dont understand why the US and Britain would diss the Russian like that and offer asylum to Chechen rebels and their leaders. thats like Russia giving asylum to Bin Laden and his rebels.

ill be very interested to see where this is going.

Putty
09-10-2004, 08:50 PM
the us has a long history of supporting insurgency in order to destabilize countries. maybe they thought russia would jump on board, but miscalculated.

if russia considers the us as harboring terrorits, they are, by the example of US action in the last few years, equally justified to strike them.

not sure exactly what the situation is there, but georgia is anothe state of contention, with us troops stationed there.

this could get ugly.

also, alQ has just put out another video...saying they are going to burn russia to the ground.

the stage is set.

sAFETY
09-10-2004, 08:53 PM
What I want to know is just what is the big deal with Chechnya?

Russia let MASSIVE amounts of land and population go when the USSR broke up. So why are they so strong on keeping this relatively small parcel of land?

the flying moose
09-10-2004, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by sAFETY
What I want to know is just what is the big deal with Chechnya?

Russia let MASSIVE amounts of land and population go when the USSR broke up. So why are they so strong on keeping this relatively small parcel of land?

in 1994-1996 the was the first chechnya/russia war. russia got their asses handed to them. so russia now claimed its objective was to capture the criminals and bandits that escaped to chechnya. now its escaladed and the russians are eager to make up for the embarassing defeat they suffered several years ago at the hands of the chechnian rebels.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/chechnya2.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/chechnya.htm

Putty
09-10-2004, 09:02 PM
pipelines going through chechnya. i heard they have oil, but not sure about that.

the flying moose
09-10-2004, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by putty
the us has a long history of supporting insurgency in order to destabilize countries. maybe they thought russia would jump on board, but miscalculated.

if russia considers the us as harboring terrorits, they are, by the example of US action in the last few years, equally justified to strike them.

not sure exactly what the situation is there, but georgia is anothe state of contention, with us troops stationed there.

this could get ugly.

also, alQ has just put out another video...saying they are going to burn russia to the ground.

the stage is set.

yeah its gonna get messy cuz you know the US is going be all up in there making sure Russia doesnt do anything. Russia aint gonna put up with that at all.

edit: http://www.globalsecurity.org/index.html
this site is pretty interesting.

Putty
09-10-2004, 09:04 PM
i think basically russia is pissed and shoving the us rhetoric back in their faces hard.

the flying moose
09-10-2004, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by putty
i think basically russia is pissed and shoving the us rhetoric back in their faces hard.

exactly. and the bully doesnt like looking foolish.

[email protected]
09-10-2004, 09:06 PM
What is this world coming to.

So much going on right now, yet it seems it's all doing nothing but stir up more conflict.

Sad.

Putty
09-10-2004, 09:08 PM
yup, and its always the innocent, little guy getting screwed. when i look at the pictures of the kids faces in that gym, it makes me really sad that we can still do that to one another.

Putty
09-10-2004, 09:21 PM
interestingly, the translator that dealt with the hostage takers, spoke Chechnyan to them, and none of them could understand.

aShogunNamedMarcus
09-10-2004, 09:31 PM
That site is really interesting Moose.

From the 2nd page on the Chechnya War,

The pipeline will bring the Caspian Sea's oil to the Mediterranean without crossing Russia and Iran. The Turkish export route for Azerbaijan's huge reserves of oil and natural gas is aimed at reducing the former Soviet republic's dependency on Moscow. This deal represented a long-term strategic triumph over Russia's historic aspirations and interests in Central Asia. The Chechen War was the best argument in favor of the agreement on an oil pipeline from Baku to Turkey as an alternative to a Russian pipeline, paradoxically confirming the Russian assumption that the United States benefits from Chechnya because it wants to bring the Caucasus under its influence.

So of course the US is involved and not really helping matters.

aShogunNamedMarcus
09-10-2004, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by putty
yup, and its always the innocent, little guy getting screwed. when i look at the pictures of the kids faces in that gym, it makes me really sad that we can still do that to one another.

What makes me sad is the fact that people believe thats an effective means or solution to an issue which doesnt even involve the little people :(

aShogunNamedMarcus
09-10-2004, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by putty
interestingly, the translator that dealt with the hostage takers, spoke Chechnyan to them, and none of them could understand.

That is very perplexing?

Things are starting to heat up on the global playground.. stoopid super powers.

Putty
09-10-2004, 09:35 PM
if you were putin, you could not ask for a better event to cook up war fever back home. fact is putin has a hard on for chechnya and no one is really sure who the hostage takers were, and I think if they find out, they will point the fingers at this guy

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040908/040908_BASAYEV_vmed_3a.v2.jpg

even if the chechnyans had nothing to do with it.

sAFETY
09-10-2004, 10:32 PM
forget about pointing fingers.

LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THAT DUDE'S THUMB!!!! :eek:

Putty
09-10-2004, 10:35 PM
that's because he is evil. and look at the beard, another sign of an evildoer.

FuManChu
09-10-2004, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by putty
if you were putin, you could not ask for a better event to cook up war fever back home. fact is putin has a hard on for chechnya and no one is really sure who the hostage takers were, and I think if they find out, they will point the fingers at this guy

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040908/040908_BASAYEV_vmed_3a.v2.jpg

even if the chechnyans had nothing to do with it.


that beard almost looks fake lol, another sign of evil

Putty
09-10-2004, 11:07 PM
actually, its funny how much that dude looks like my dad when my dad was younger. same beard.

Mr. Charles
09-10-2004, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by [email protected]
What is this world coming to.

So much going on right now, yet it seems it's all doing nothing but stir up more conflict.

Sad.

i think plato (or was it socrates?) saind the same thing in 18 trillion BC.

gearwh0re
09-10-2004, 11:54 PM
i would laugh if russia attacked the usa using the USA's logic to justify it. well i would laugh for a bit, then i would likely die

Putty
09-11-2004, 12:06 AM
the scary thing is, that's the way it might shape up. the us has 50,000 troops in georgia and are mettling with chechnya.

there is serious doubt about how this school hostage taking played out and i would not be surprised if russia steps up and plays hardball with the US.

i'd like to see the us get smacked, but like you said, it will most likely end up killing us.

oh well at least the us gets smacked.