Easy

[axisofevelknievel]

Lately, I can't help but notice that most board users idea of 'easy' seems to very different than the traditional use of the word in the English language. Over the past few days, I've heard CBC, Pangor, Schleyer, and other advanced levels trails being described as 'easy'. Potentially these trails are easy, but if they are I should probably find another sport. I can't help but notice that they are aimed at advanced level riders who need to be comfortable riding a variety of terrain.

I'm not expecting miracles, but it would be nice if people were more realistic about describing trails and stunts. Compare them to other trails or features (ex: 'if you're comfortable on X, you should be fine on Y'), provide trail descriptions (ex: 'a few steep sections that could be challenging, mostly natural terrain, but for the most part it isn't too tough...'), or something else that provides others with a good idea of what to expect.

By the way, I'm really looking forward to riding Groovula and Flying Circus tomorrow. I've never riden them before, but apparently they're easy...

[ReCkLeSs RiDeR]

well man that's just some peoples opinion. If you are a really advanced rider then trails that would seem harder to more of a beginner may seem easier to you.

[r3volution]

A lot of people on here are not beginner riders. A lot have been here for a long time and have been riding for a long time and have no fear of doing big stunts or trails.
When someone says it's easy, it usually is. Every stunt that I have ever done I was told it was easy even though I didnt think it was easy. After you hit up a trail or stunt for the first time, you generally ask yourself why you thought it was so hard to do. Biking is a whole mind game, it just tests how much power you have over your mind.

[Neo]

i concur.

some trails like cbc and neds for example, both of which i've heard called "easy trails" on this forum. both can be as hard as you make them really. there may be peeps here who "bomb" down neds or cbc all sketchy without really hitting a single stunt and then say its easy cuz they've done it. both these trails have hard sections and stunts with relatively easy ride arounds for the most part. while i don't consider myself a beginner rider, i have yet to actually clean everything on either trail. haven't hit the log gap on neds yet, and i have yet to clean that stupid sketch log/drop/roll down thing at the very end of cbc. but i don't think people purposely say that a trail is easy to deceive you, i think it just ends up being a relative opinion based on the rider's own skills and perception. hell, neds on a hardtail, cleaning ALL the hard stunts (logs etc) and dealing with the rock garden hell is fricken HARD, and same goes for cbc. haha cbc in the snow was wicked.

[Neo]

is there an official standard rating system according to the NSMBA? if there isn't there should be.

[Neo]

btw, same goes for pangor and corkscrew. how many peeps really hit all the hard stuff on those trails and say they're easy?

[DaveM]

Ned's used to be a beginner shore trail, the first step to riding the shore. It's not extremely difficult now, but it's so eroded and washed out, I wouldn't consider it an easy beginner trail anymore.

Pangor's pretty easy if you ride around everything, pretty high intermediate if you can clean all the stunts on it. That's what I think makes it an excellent beginner shore trail. As your skills progress, you can try more obstacles.

I've cleaned that last thing on CBC only once, the only time I've attempted it, and purely driven by fear (it was too late to abort). Last time I rode it, it looked a bit less formidible. I'll have to give it a go again.

[bunny]

i think when people say that trails like cbc, neds, pangor are easy it's that there is an easy way down... even if there may be harder stunts... as opposed to something like clown shoes or stuff on cypress where it's harder to walk than ride. :)

[bunny]

ps. the last log roll down on cbc is great fun. :) especially if you take the right (wrong) line and the rocks have come out of place and you lawn dart to the big rock at the bottom and wake up on the trail below with a bunch of people all asking how you are. :P

[ReCkLeSs RiDeR]

If you look at the NS maps, particularly the Fromme one you will see Air Supply labelled as Professionals Only. There are a lot more people than just professionals who ride it. Most of these people do not consider themselves to be "Pro" but they still ride it anyway. I think that kind of relates to peoples easy opinion.

[Neo]

Originally posted by davet
Ned's used to be a beginner shore trail, the first step to riding the shore. It's not extremely difficult now, but it's so eroded and washed out, I wouldn't consider it an easy beginner trail anymore.

Pangor's pretty easy if you ride around everything, pretty high intermediate if you can clean all the stunts on it. That's what I think makes it an excellent beginner shore trail. As your skills progress, you can try more obstacles.


good points. these trails allow riders to progress by mixing their lines as they ride them and become more familiar with them. also, in addition to the erosion on neds, there are logs and drops aren't exactly "easy", especially on a hardtail. for example, how many people actually do these and call them easy?

http://www.gutsploder.net/rides/June31_03/37.jpg

and on cbc:

http://www.gutsploder.net/rides/June31_03/20.jpg

cleaning the whole gerbil cage isn't easy:

http://www.gutsploder.net/rides/June31_03/11.jpg

[axisofevelknievel]

The reason I bring this up is for the sake (and safety) of other people seeking advice about trails. Whenever I hear someone describe a trail to someone as 'easy' when it isn't, I can't help but wonder what potential damage they're about to cause an unexpecting rider.

A trail like CBC is not easy. Do not take beginners down it. Do not recommend to beginners that they even think about riding it. Send them somewhere more appropriate. It might be relatively easy for an experienced rider, but try to take into account the skill level of others. Picture this example: Someone who has biked a fair amount, but never on anything technical trys to bike down CBC. The trail starts, and right off the bat it's technical. No chance to warm up, no chance to develope any flow - straight into stuff scarrier than they've ever experienced. And it doesn't relent for a long long time. By the end of the trail, they would be thinking of four-letter words other than easy.

If you find CBC easy, I'm happy for you. I like it because it pushes me and I find it's getting easier for me the more I ride it, but I would never describe it or something like it as 'easy'. Would you want to be half way down Schleyer and come across some lower-level riders who are trying to work their way down the trail because they were told it was 'easy'? Maybe you don't care about their safety, in which case you can ignore this entire thread and I apologize for wasting your time.

All I'm saying is that when describing trails to others, take a step back and think about what the trail is really like before you quickly say 'oh yeah - it's easy. Piece of cake'.

[Mountain Dewd]

I think cbc and schleyer are pretty easy trails, and extremly fun, i think boggieman and clownshoes are pretty hard trails.

I had trouble with some stuff on cbc, and can easlisy rip everything on schechleerer, but the fact is my 49 year old dad with relativiley small skills made it down schelchyer and cbc intact, just had to walk the occasional stunt. they were a little much for him, but he made it. i wouldnt say either are easy trails, but a relativen amaeture could make it down either without having to get off the bike much.

i actually had a hardtime on cbc, after riding high speed whistler stuff for a week that is fast and have nice trannys and stuff cbc and other shore trails were quite the challenge.

i would never call trails like that a piece of cake though.

[Neo]

yea see, i totally suck at dh and high speed stuff.

[sanrensho]

Originally posted by davet
I've cleaned that last thing on CBC only once, the only time I've attempted it, and purely driven by fear (it was too late to abort). Last time I rode it, it looked a bit less formidible. I'll have to give it a go again.

And here I was thinking that I was the only person who walked that section.

Any tips on getting down it? I mean, other than just "give 'er.":D

Getting back to the original thread, I think it is important to remember that there are probably more lurkers than contributors on this board. Hence, it is very easy to gain a distorted picture of what is "easy" and "hard" for the vast majority of riders and weekend warriors.

[Lady Gravity]

i think the only mountain you can describe as "easy" is SFU, and even then, nicoles can intimidate beginner riders - there's two fairly steep sections.

if a beginner rider wants something easy, i'd suggest coquitlam river or bridal path on seymour - something that gets them used to riding over logs/rocks and isn't steep.

[Neo]

i know the best line on that last one on cbc is to stay on the log to the end and roll down right on the rock face thing. i have yet to do it. fuck i can manual the big (millenium?) log but i haven't done that last stupid thing. :S

http://www.gutsploder.net/rides/June31_03/21.jpg

[norco125]

rock faces liek that are easy to ride down , its the logs like that , that i find tough to ride

[sanrensho]

Originally posted by wisc fr-rider
I think cbc and schleyer are pretty easy trails...I had trouble with some stuff on cbc...i wouldnt say either are easy trails...i actually had a hardtime on cbc...cbc and other shore trails were quite the challenge...i would never call trails like that a piece of cake.

So is CBC "pretty easy" or "not easy"?:lol: :lol: :lol:

[freerider guy]

Originally posted by Dante Alighieri
hell, neds on a hardtail, cleaning ALL the hard stunts (logs etc) and dealing with the rock garden hell is fricken HARD

yah represent, I did it!!! Anyways, I agree with the hypothesis that everybody is exagerating about stuff being easy. Like CBC is hard I mean who here can say that they have done every single thing on CBC? Like I'm not too bad and I have tried everything (ate it on the second rock drop, if you look at it from the bottom you will notice that the trannie isn't lined up with the drop) on it exept for the one big rock drop before the gerbil cage. And about the last thing on CBC, so I have ridden the loose rock bit down on the right. Does that count or do I have to do the steep bit at the end of that? And tips for doing it, there isn't really that much to it but look at it, pick a line then go at a comfertable/ slower speed down the log and once u hit the top of the rocks just let go of the brake and hold on and go straight. Once through use the boards at the bottom to rip through the corner.

[Neo]

not easy, but with an easy ride around:

http://www.gutsploder.net/rides/June31_03/16.jpg

[Keefer]

I totally agree with the original post. I think it's more of a machismo attitude that does it, people are like "Oh yea, flying circus? Yea man, that trail's easy" People trying to look hardcore.

And it also depends on what lines you choose. I would say you could make CBC an easy trail. Just don't do any of the stunts, and it would be beginner-intermediate I think. But then again, my view could be skewed, I ride the stunts and don't know how hard/easy the ride arounds are.

[ReCkLeSs RiDeR]

yes If you ride circus and skip the ridiculator then it is easier

[Mr Ripper]

Come on guys, pull your heads out, any trail on a map that says it is black diamond is the farthest thing from easy. If you want easy trails check out the map on NSMBA's web site of Fromme. There are more blue trails on fromme than seymour, and they are "beginner" trails. Check out Upper & Lower Griffen, Fluffy Bunny, Roadside Attraction. After that I would do Krickum Krankum and Kickford. Hope that helps. STOP TELLING PEOPLE CBC IS A BEGINNER TRAIL. It might be to most, but remember riding the shore is the most technical riding in the world. If you are going to send noobs down CBC, call the Ambulance first to give them the heads up, then call the district and tell them we are not responsible enough to have these beautiful trails and to get their chainsaws warmed up. :eek:

[Neo]

Originally posted by Mr Ripper
STOP TELLING PEOPLE CBC IS A BEGINNER TRAIL. It might be to most, but remember riding the shore is the most technical riding in the world. If you are going to send noobs down CBC, call the Ambulance first to give them the heads up, then call the district and tell them we are not responsible enough to have these beautiful trails and to get their chainsaws warmed up. :eek:

w3rd.

[trail worker]

Originally posted by Keefer
I totally agree with the original post. I think it's more of a machismo attitude that does it, people are like "Oh yea, flying circus? Yea man, that trail's easy" People trying to look hardcore.
Bingo,i'd say that's it IMO, i think everyone succumbs to this at one point or another.

[Late Bloomer]

Originally posted by Dante Alighieri
not easy, but with an easy ride around:

http://www.gutsploder.net/rides/June31_03/16.jpg You have to be a good dancer to clean that one, IMO...I'm only a halfway decent dancer I guess:lol:

Alot of the 'easy' trails are not as easy as folks would say - only 'cuz they've been riding them for many more years than others. Regularity on a particular trail will, in time, make is seem as easy as lesser trails to a rider.
On that same note, it is totally possible to ride an ACTUAL easy trail in a manner that makes it difficult. It's all up to what your eyes see and how you translate it to your bike.

[couch@nsmb.com]

It really depends on where you are coming from; experience wise, geographically wise, equipment wise, you get the point.

If you are from S. Cali (or anywhere really that is not BC) and consider yourself an expert rider and were looking for a trail to ride CBC would be a mind blower and definitely not easy. If you took your better half for a ride would you take them on CBC? - I wouldn't for the sole reason that I would like them to come to enjoy the sport. I like to give people a good idea of what they are getting into so we often will hike a trail first. If their eyes turn into suacers and they keep mumbling "that's insane..." that is probably NOT the trail for them.

[Lady Gravity]

haha
anyone remember the vid that was posted about a guy on here taking a visitor from the US to ride fromme...i remember him saying "that's insane". can't remember which trails he rode though

[Late Bloomer]

Originally posted by Lady Gravity
haha
anyone remember the vid that was posted about a guy on here taking a visitor from the US to ride fromme...i remember him saying "that's insane". can't remember which trails he rode though http://www.mountainbikebill.com/videos/13ThingsYouMightSayOnTheNorthShore.mpg
:lol:I think that's the 13 things video...just saw that the other day for the 1st time.
My 1st trip to the shore was Fromme...I used variations of "that's insane" along the way...didn't use the "what a puss" one, though.
I think what gets most people is they know the stunts, etc. are the, but they're just not ready for the terrain in between all that so the stunts just jump up 'out of nowhere'. Thank God I know better now!:)

[markathome]

Let's look at this a different way: what about the riders? Like in skiing when someone rents gear - they fill out a form that describes what kind of rider/skier they are. I think we have to up what we're expecting out of a rider.

Here are my suggestions for NSMBing only.

Beginner: Can ride steeps up to 50-60 degrees. Can ride ladders waist height and shoulder width. Will hit drops as high as a tire. Can lift up the front end on demand. Tries skinnies knee high and below. Wish they owned a squishy.

Intermediate: Steeps to 75-85 degrees. Ride ladders/A-frames overhead and less than shoulder width. Hits drops overhead and knows how to wheelie drop. Will ride skinnies up to shoulder height - as long as they can grab something somewhere along the way. Can wrap head around gaps, and lands them within one to two bike lengths but still pretty freaked about the extended hang-time. Rides a squish and is currently shopping for a HT to learn how to DJ on. Wish they started riding earlier in life (or is that just me?).

Advanced: Steep 90+ degrees. Big Gaps, high and bouncy skinnies, multiple teeters that are elevated to a "ummm.... that makes me feel a little quesy" proportion. Ladders are a place to rest, practice nose manuals, eat, take pics of friends, etc. BIG drops/hits with style thrown in. Likes to take one or sometimes two hands off the bar while air-born. And more than that - can handle the stunt to stunt with flair and skill. No floundering in the flow in the face of real danger. Should always carry a cell. Wish they knew a physio who was hotter than the sweaty guy with a talking problem they're seeing now. .

Pro. Clean it or call 911. Wish they had money in the bank.

Suggestions?

[playahata]

That last thing on CBC is exactly like dropping into a skate bowl. Check out the skatepark at the base of fromme and practice dropping in to the big bowl from the side a couple times. You cant really roll, you have to lift off a bit; kinda "jump". I always think of it as "diving down" into my forks. The section to the right is terrifying in comparison, dont ride that!!!

[axisofevelknievel]

Originally posted by markathome
Let's look at this a different way: what about the riders? Like in skiing when someone rents gear - they fill out a form that describes what kind of rider/skier they are. I think we have to up what we're expecting out of a rider.

Here are my suggestions for NSMBing only.

Beginner: Can ride steeps up to 50-60 degrees. Can ride ladders waist height and shoulder width. Will hit drops as high as a tire. Can lift up the front end on demand. Tries skinnies knee high and below. Wish they owned a squishy.

Intermediate: Steeps to 75-85 degrees. Ride ladders/A-frames overhead and less than shoulder width. Hits drops overhead and knows how to wheelie drop. Will ride skinnies up to shoulder height - as long as they can grab something somewhere along the way. Can wrap head around gaps, and lands them within one to two bike lengths but still pretty freaked about the extended hang-time. Rides a squish and is currently shopping for a HT to learn how to DJ on. Wish they started riding earlier in life (or is that just me?).

Advanced: Steep 90+ degrees. Big Gaps, high and bouncy skinnies, multiple teeters that are elevated to a "ummm.... that makes me feel a little quesy" proportion. Ladders are a place to rest, practice nose manuals, eat, take pics of friends, etc. BIG drops/hits with style thrown in. Likes to take one or sometimes two hands off the bar while air-born. And more than that - can handle the stunt to stunt with flair and skill. No floundering in the flow in the face of real danger. Should always carry a cell. Wish they knew a physio who was hotter than the sweaty guy with a talking problem they're seeing now. .

Pro. Clean it or call 911. Wish they had money in the bank.

Suggestions?

Um... if a beginner is able to ride a 50-60 pitch, then that scale will need several levels below 'beginner'. A beginner is someone who feels comfortable on the beginner/green trails. An intermediate is someone who is comfortable on the intermediate/blue trails. An advanced level rider is someone who is comfortable on the advanced/black trails (everyone notice the pattern yet?). Within the advanced/expert/pro level is a huge range. A low level advanced rider matches the 'beginner' description above.

If you're a low-level rider on shore trails such as CBC or Pangor, than you're essenrtially an expert in the rest of the world. If you're an intermediate rider in the outside world, you're probably no where close to the 'beginner' description up top.

[Roasted]

Originally posted by markathome
Let's look at this a different way: what about the riders? Like in skiing when someone rents gear - they fill out a form that describes what kind of rider/skier they are. I think we have to up what we're expecting out of a rider.

Here are my suggestions for NSMBing only.

Beginner: Can ride steeps up to 50-60 degrees. Can ride ladders waist height and shoulder width. Will hit drops as high as a tire. Can lift up the front end on demand. Tries skinnies knee high and below. Wish they owned a squishy.

Intermediate: Steeps to 75-85 degrees. Ride ladders/A-frames overhead and less than shoulder width. Hits drops overhead and knows how to wheelie drop. Will ride skinnies up to shoulder height - as long as they can grab something somewhere along the way. Can wrap head around gaps, and lands them within one to two bike lengths but still pretty freaked about the extended hang-time. Rides a squish and is currently shopping for a HT to learn how to DJ on. Wish they started riding earlier in life (or is that just me?).

Advanced: Steep 90+ degrees. Big Gaps, high and bouncy skinnies, multiple teeters that are elevated to a "ummm.... that makes me feel a little quesy" proportion. Ladders are a place to rest, practice nose manuals, eat, take pics of friends, etc. BIG drops/hits with style thrown in. Likes to take one or sometimes two hands off the bar while air-born. And more than that - can handle the stunt to stunt with flair and skill. No floundering in the flow in the face of real danger. Should always carry a cell. Wish they knew a physio who was hotter than the sweaty guy with a talking problem they're seeing now. .

Pro. Clean it or call 911. Wish they had money in the bank.

Suggestions?

Good try and well worth it. But I think this just proves the point. I think you should shift this upwards. What you have as intermediate (riding shoulder heigh skinnies for example) is not intermediate. But really I think the idea is a good one. Just a bit skewed :D

I do think this type of thing would be hard to do as it varries greatly. I don't think there needs to be standards as it just doesn't work in most cases. I just think, if someone asks for beginning trails, you get some details. And then post a trail. Hard to me is probably easy to some of you. But easy to me is hard to a lot of riders coming in from out of town.

Whistler does it, but also makes sure ALL the harder trails have ways to escape. Someone gets stuck they usually don't have far to go to find a bathroom :)