ignorance killed Oak

[atari_]

I'm livid
absolutely livid.

I have no problem with people building jumps, not problem with people working on them, but whomevers ignorance ruined Oak, needs to be kicked in the balls.

First of all, they purposely ruined the small line. They made it bigger, and made it gaps, digging holes in the ground so you can't ride around. Not only does this mean that there are no worry free warm up jumps, it means there is no line for people to learn on, for a natural progression.

I understand, you get to the point where those little jumps arn't fun anymore. So what you do is you move on to bigger ones. Some asshole's ignorance ruined these jumps, not allowing anyone else to learn as they themselves did.

Oak is not just for the Elite, it's for everyone. You wanted to build a big jump, great you did. That's awesome, but don't ruin everyone elses fun because you have Ego.

Not only did this ruin Oak for %80 of the people I've ridden there with, it also means that more then %80 less people will go to oak. That means the jumps won't get maintained. because there won't be enough intrest to organize dig days.

I'm tired of people who can only think of themselves, and not the good of the biking community. this is the same reasons we are having land disputes over fromme.

Another thing the ignorant children did, was make the gap bigger on the left of the small big jump. I have no problem with that, but by doing this, the spent all there time on that, and the jump is in horrible shape. It's in serious need of work. Kicking apart the inside of a jump to make the gap bigger is not helping anyone in the longrun.


I'm amazed that people would be this stupid, and completely ruin a great place to jump. The place is left with no flow. and a bunch of half assed built jumps. Spend the time to build one well, from run in, to run out. Don't half build one, and move to the next.

I hope we can organise a big dig day, maybe raise funds to bring in some heavy macheniery, and rebuild the damage done. It will take many hours to get Oak to what it was 3 weeks ago.

[Rosscofat]

I TOTTALY AGREE! I havent been there in a while but that small set is what I learned on before I moved up.. and to think hey its dirt we can dig whatever we want is so not right.. stupid fucks

:Pissed:

[the flying moose]

man some people are just plain selfish.

[atari_]

I showed up with some friends, and none of them could ride with me. That was the worst part.

[the flying moose]

are they even worth fixing or is it going to take heavy equipment to get things back in order??

i have never ridden there but i would be down to possible help dig on some sort of trail day.

[bunny]

nooooooooooooooo. i was supposed to go there yesterday... i was told the small set was perfect to learn on. what a bummer. if there is a fixing day i'll come for sure. :)

is there anywhere else that is similar? i've only been to mrytle (i like the first 2 on the big side) and louttet (gaps scare me).

[Flow]

ahahaha quit your bitchin and build some small jumps of your own! jumps that size don't take long to build....

[Biking Fiend]

Originally posted by Flow
ahahaha quit your bitchin and build some small jumps of your own! jumps that size don't take long to build....

no, why dont you build bigger jumps and leave the smaller jumps as is

[Flow]

I'm just saying...instead of spending 20 minutes to make this lame post, the guy could have built a new jump perfect for his level of riding!

[Midas]

Originally posted by Flow
ahahaha quit your bitchin and build some small jumps of your own! jumps that size don't take long to build....
OMG it's Jill!

[Rosscofat]

ooo... hahah how about insted of replying to the post maybe you could of been out there helping him?

[Flow]

nah i live on the other side of the water and don't even ride bikes, i just post on bike sites claiming otherwise.

[Midas]

Hey roscofat. I want to reply to posts I was the one who wreked the jumps becuase I made them better for me and my friends who are actually good but now we dont ride because someone stole my bikes.

[243_ht]

ok there are so many issues with oak its not even funny. I do some work there, even though there are so many conflicting ideas there.

I could care less about the small set and really havn't touched it except to include the 4th jump.

That being said the small set was originally gaps for a long time, then a bmxer came along and made them tables, several times they have been changed in the past year from gaps to tables and back. I just watch and don't do anything because its not worth the trouble to me. So really i could get all pissy at you guys for using valuable dirt to make tables that weren't originally there, but i'm not going to.

Whereas the two main builders do get pissed off about it and use the dirt for something they deem more important (although i'm not saying it is).

The speed bumps are a straight out elitist thing that the two main builders put in, i havn't bothered doing anything about it but i'll see about talking to them.

By the way i wouldn't mind if that 80 percent of the people that you are talking about didn't come because they don't like the jumps because that means that there would be alot less people wrecking jumps without even touching a shovel.

[brett]

the small set has been gaps since their birth...

[Nosferatu]

I think we should start a new place to jump.....not only is Oak pretty messed up....but its the only place in Vancouver where there are jumps.......and some people don't have the time 2 travel all the way 2 North Van....so IMO les all find a place 2 make some killer jumps

[Midas]

If you are scared to do the small set wiht gaps go to loutet and do thiose first then mytyle then back to OAK
,..

[243_ht]

I'd also like to point out that besides some much need lip maitenance i don't think the size of the small set has changed at all besides the removal of tables.

Also i'd like to see you kick chris mac in the balls ;) :lol:

I'm sure we can figure something out but i'd also like to point out that there are very few people that do work there, and those who do tend to get to choose what is done with the jumps.

[ShoreIH]

i hope that the resevoir jumps go ahead. Its a big enough space that there could be many different sets, and it would be good for everybody:) There could be small table and gaps and all kinds of shit, it would be such a good place to learn how to jump:thepimp: Another thing is that since there would hopefully be many different skill levels their, the advanced guys could help out the not so advanced guys and stuff, it would be such a good place to ride:thepimp:

[marksnet]

if all that has been done is remove the middle and the jumps are small why not just bring some wood if your so concerned about having them table tops? check out some local bmx tracks if you want to learn how to jump its a good place to start

[Kyle the Hun]

What if the people who changed the jumps were the people who built them in the first place? Just because you ride someone else's jumps and like them, doesn't mean the builder shouldn't be allowed to change them.

If 80% less people go to the jumps, that means there will be MUCH less maintenence to do. The people who changed the jumps obviously are willing to put in effort to dig, but if the 80% isn't willing to dig their own small jumps, chances are they either don't jump too much and will case, making for more maintenence, or they plain out won't do any work. You can't complain if someone changed a jump that you didn't even build in the first place.

I can see it's dumb that the people dug away the backside of the lip/landing to make the gap bigger, but if the jump is in such bad condition, why don't you fix it yourself? Props for wanting to organize a little trail day though.

[atari_]

Ok, the jumps where doing great. Now tonnes of work has been put in. So now we have 4 jumps that are all half assed. Small sets arn't there for good bikers to ride. they're there for people to learn. Making them gaps is just rude. The good riders don't want to hit a 3 foot lip, they'll ride the bigger ones. The people that do want to ride a small lip, don't care if it's a table or not. And the people that want to learn can't. It's not right that because we learnt before them, we're not goign to give them a chance to learn.

There are some great ideas happening at oak. All I want to see is the small set put back to a good warmup/learning set. Tables. Run ups and outs cleaned up, and the lips worked on.

There are lots of people willing to do work out there. The problem is, when they all get together, it's more funt o build a new big jump, then to fix the ones that need some work.

All you people that are defending it, wake up. Making hte SMALL set tables that anyone can ride, will not effect you in any way. You'll still be busting it off the big ones.

It was also said that it's better to leave out the 80% of people because they wreck the place and don't lift a shovel.
Every person who does do work there and is in that 20% started off in the 80%. You all learnt on smaller jumps. Oak is not Private land, it's for everyone. If you want nothing but big gaps, start digging in your back yard (Like Super T did ;))

[atari_]

I'm not talking about me. I don't ride the little jumps. I don't care about them for myself. It the people that came while I was there that had to go home, because they couldn't ride the big jumps. That's who I'm trying to stand up for.

You talk about less maintenence. A gap is infinately more maintenece then a table. Table lips don't cave, the tranny's either.

[Islandrider]

You could just work on the jumps like that lots, expcailly oak because its off like a main street. Shit happens at jump places like that. You have to MAINTAIN them like once a week to expect then to be prime. Not everyone recpects the jumps which is unfortunate. Victoria is infamous for this too.

[243_ht]

We are not talking about huge gaps here we are talking about a 3-4 foot gap. Tables use up alot of dirt, there is not much clay dirt left and the city does not want holes. The jumps are exactly the same as they used to be except there is added access to a fourth jump, which i would think would be beneficial to people. Just because someone came in and made the small set tables doesn't mean they are supposed to be like that. It doesn't give the builders any less right to put them back to the way they used to be.

[atari_]

I'm just saying that the builders need to think about why they started building jumps there in the first place. You build public jumps so people can come and ride. Why discriminate who can come and ride there?

[tomatoz]

that place was never good to begin with ne ways, the dirt turns into sand after awhile.....and a month ago there were cow poo dumbed there...so it kinda stinks now

but guys dun't worry the jumps on 16th in UBC are suppost to be build this spring!

[Emmens]

i don't realy care about oak anymore cause since the og crue stopped riding there the place has never been like it was back in the day nsx4 era. but as one of the original riders and builders i would like to point out that we built the small set as part of a line not as a place to learn we had all learned to jump elsewhere and about three years ago considered removing it as so many people started coming there to learn on the small ones that it was annoying and we wanted to keep oak somewhat exclusive to people who had some clue.we didn't cause we liked the line and you could use it for transfers and whatnot. so anyways i sipathise with the new cru there and if they want to do whatever they want let them cause they have to put up with shity people like you who think it is god damn whistler skills park and want table everything so if you want tables go to whistler and leave oak a lone it has a hard life and deserves the respect of at least keeping the jumps doubles and in decent shape with decent riders taking care of them

[M.W.]

Originally posted by Emmens
i don't realy care about oak anymore cause since the og crue stopped riding there the place has never been like it was back in the day nsx4 era. but as one of the original riders and builders i would like to point out that we built the small set as part of a line not as a place to learn we had all learned to jump elsewhere and about three years ago considered removing it as so many people started coming there to learn on the small ones that it was annoying and we wanted to keep oak somewhat exclusive to people who had some clue.we didn't cause we liked the line and you could use it for transfers and whatnot. so anyways i sipathise with the new cru there and if they want to do whatever they want let them cause they have to put up with shity people like you who think it is god damn whistler skills park and want table everything so if you want tables go to whistler and leave oak a lone it has a hard life and deserves the respect of at least keeping the jumps doubles and in decent shape with decent riders taking care of them

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE COMMUNITY!@$?@! Building the jumps at the trails you started the way you like them is soooooo selfish!!!!!!1one

[corey@nsmb.com]

Originally posted by k-Bizzle
What if the people who changed the jumps were the people who built them in the first place? Just because you ride someone else's jumps and like them, doesn't mean the builder shouldn't be allowed to change them.

If 80% less people go to the jumps, that means there will be MUCH less maintenence to do. The people who changed the jumps obviously are willing to put in effort to dig, but if the 80% isn't willing to dig their own small jumps, chances are they either don't jump too much and will case, making for more maintenence, or they plain out won't do any work. You can't complain if someone changed a jump that you didn't even build in the first place.


This is the same kind of elitist attitude he is talking about (no offense, but it is).

Unless you OWN that property, you can't lay any claim to it. When you dig on a lot that isn't yours, it doesn't mean you have some kind of right to it because you and your pals dug some jumps on it. Sure, props for building and maintaining them. But it pisses me off when people cop attitude like it's "our fricken lot, if you don't like it, beat it". That's lame and that isn't what biking is about.

[corey@nsmb.com]

Originally posted by Emmens
cause they have to put up with shity people like you who think it is god damn whistler skills park and want table everything so if you want tables go to whistler and leave oak a lone it has a hard life and deserves the respect of at least keeping the jumps doubles and in decent shape with decent riders taking care of them


:lol:

Nice attitude bro.

I wish I was born pre-programmed a "decent" dirt jumper like you. No wonder nobody helps you out digging, nobody wants to work beside someone with attitude like that.

You sucked at some point too, and you learned on someone else's work at some point too. Loose the God attitude and focus a little more on fun.

[atari_]

you guys are only reading what you want to read. I have never once said I want it all tables. Read what I'm saying before you start rapping off. Instead of getting all defensive, listen.

If the jumps at oak become something where only a few people will ride, the city will see that "There are barely any people there at all these days". If they see no intrest, I'm sure they will see a better use of the land.

By making the smallest set tables, it by no way inpunes your rugged masculinity.

There are all these guys who feel that by buildng a small, simple table for OTHERS to learn on, somehow makes them a whimp. Unless you're building Superman jumps, you won't be cool.

I'm sorry, but get over it. Oak is a great place. We are lucky to live in a city where the city allows shit like this. Oak is a place where everyone, all bikers of every shape, size and color, can come and play. I'm tired of the elitest/racist crap I have seen going on there.

It's not hard to have a really simple solution. This is a place where everyone can ride. If you start a battle, it will go both ways. Build for everyone. If you truely believe that "I built the jumps, so I have all say" then you're lying. If someone levels all the jumps, building nothing but tiny small tables, you're not goign to say, "Well someone else built those, so we can't build anything bigger. " You grab a shovel and make it better.

So do that, make Oak a better place for all bikers to ride.

[Del]

No offence to anyone but those small jumps are exactly as they have been named: SMALL. I learned how to dj on that same set back when it was gaps of very similar size two summers ago and ive had no problems. Beleive me, i had very little jumping skill at all before that. As soon as they turn into tables then they get rolled and stuff and literally beat into the ground, ive seen it happen once already and hopefully we can sort it out so it doesnt happen again.

Oak is in need of love as its been said. So how about everyone quit bitching and come out to dig?

[Tha Niggla]

atari_, can i just ask you something before i make a real reply?

how much time, roughly, in hours have YOU spent digging at oak?

[atari_]

Del, I agree completely. The only problem that has to be sorted out FIRST is what to dig. If we just plan to dig, then nothing will get solved. Once we know what needs to be done, then we can go and do it.
I'll make it simple. What I am reccomending is this for a dig day:
Rebuild the proven jumps, run in, run out, and lip work.
Make the small line SMALL, and tables.

That's it. If you want to work on the single that out west of the others, great!. Or the set on the right side, even better. You can build bigger, better jumps if you want.

All I want is the small set to be what it was month ago, and teh focus of a dig day to be to rebuild and repair, not to ignore what needs work to make something new.

I feel this is a solution everyone can live with. People that find tables boring have the rest of Oak to play on, leave the tables for the rest of the people not quite confident enough yet to hit a gap.

that's it. It's not bitching Del. Once we have a solution that works for everyone, then things get done.

[atari_]

Originally posted by Tha Niggla
atari_, can i just ask you something before i make a real reply?

how much time, roughly, in hours have YOU spent digging at oak?

I moved to van 6 months ago. I got a bike a month ago (after over a year of not riding) When I started going to Oak, it was in great condiition, no diggin needed.

So my answer is none. This is why I'm trying to arganise a dig day, so I can change that.

[Tha Niggla]

Well, you have some valid points, but I think you're coming off a little aggro. I don't think you have the right to bitch about this to the degree you are.

You say you want to organize a dig day, and you've called alot or at least some of the people most willing to help you out "assholes" and saying you'd like the kick them in the balls!

I think until you've taken some initiative at Oak and done even just a little work, you need to step back a bit and relax, and realise Oak is what the builders make it. If you're there jumping and digging enough, you'll get listened to and/ or just make some lines for you and your friends yourself.

I'm not saying that if you build there you have the right to do whatever you want, but putting the time in will give you more perspective and more of a right to have input.

As far as things being left there unfinished right now, yeah... there's some flow issues... it happens, you have to dig when there's a bit of rain, if jumps don't get finished and the weather dries up, there's nothing to do about it.
Oak is generally a write off from around now until the fall anyway, the dirt dries up and you can't keep decent lips. But the small ones stay intact... why don't you just go fill in the gaps? Or build a small set of rollers in the berm line that's there.

Alot of people that ride Oak alot have seen it get beat to hell time after time because there's alot of people who jump there and hardly any of them show up with shovels. Sorry to say this, but it's usually the beginners at fault, so don't belly ache too much about considering them.

Really, if you want Oak to be better suited to you and your friends, go there with shovels, build or fix up the lines you want. If you're there enough to DESERVE input - you'll find out who digs there, how much work they do, how fast it gets wrecked, how many people ride and don't build or maintain... and alot of other things you need to know before you go off calling people assholes and ranting about kicking them in the balls.

Better Yet, put in 10 hours of work there yourself one weekend and come back the next week to find it destroyed, then you'll truly understand what kind of ingnorance ruins Oak.

[atari_]

teh niggla, thank you. You have the only well thought out defence for this. I agree with all your points. My ranting was based on being pissed off. I aplogize for being so offencive.

I would like to say that I agree, that most damage is done by beginners, and they usually don't lift a shovel. BUT, it's the begiinners that turn into the guys that build the new parks. We have to give them a chance.

When I get mad, I don't speak clearly enough, and my main points get lost. My anger comes from 2 instances.
One, A bunch of black kids trying to do some jumps. This is awesome. What pisses me off, is the majority of hte group of white guys jumping there where outright hostile to the kids. Since when is biking a race exclusive pasttime?
And second, The small line getting turned into a not as small gaps.

these combined leave me with nothing but the impression of arrogance, ignorace, and ego.
This is one place, where it would be so damn easy to have a great thiing. A place where everyone can come hang out. THere are always great people comming down. The problem is they have to spend there time picking up the glass from broken beer bottles.

The jumps are for everyone, so I want everyone to have the option of using them.

that's it

[Keefer]

I agree with atari. Everyone's a beginner somewhere, and it really doesn't affect the better riders if the small jumps are tables.

You'd be even more pissed if someone stole the dirt from a big jump and used it to make the little jumps into tables. I would be. There's recognized (unofficially) beginner lines and advanced lines. The beginner riders look up to the better riders and thus don't want to damage their big jumps, but the better riders just ignore the guys who are just starting off.

Noone's damaging the big line, stick to the big line if you're an advanced rider. Having the little set as gaps just for nostalgia's sake is friggin ridiculous.

[Tha Niggla]

Originally posted by atari_
[B]A bunch of black kids trying to do some jumps. This is awesome. What pisses me off, is the majority of hte group of white guys jumping there where outright hostile to the kids. Since when is biking a race exclusive pasttime?

/B]

That is awesome.

being black (well, half anyway) myself, I hope to hell it wasn't a racist vibe going on... probably just some hardcores that didn't want kids in the way.

Like i say, you have points for sure, just try and keep it mellow

[Keefer]

P.S: I've dug there once, but I wanna start jumping there a bit more. I'll spread the word about a dig day if someone wants me to...

Who's in?

We'd need to get some people who ride/dig there enough so that the main people's wishes are respected.

[Del]

Originally posted by Keefer
P.S: I've dug there once, but I wanna start jumping there a bit more. I'll spread the word about a dig day if someone wants me to...

Who's in?

We'd need to get some people who ride/dig there enough so that the main people's wishes are respected.
i work on the weekened but i get saturdayoff on the last weekend of the month. Plus thats a good day to do anyways as its easy for people with small brains to remember. How does that sound? saturday the 29th??
Ill get as many guys out as i can and with everyone else the same way. NO JUMPING just digging. BYOS (BRING YOUR OWN SHOVEL!!! Having organized a dig day before and seeing kiddies show with no shovels and just ride its a real bitch)

[M.W.]

Originally posted by corey@nsmb.com
This is the same kind of elitist attitude he is talking about (no offense, but it is).

Unless you OWN that property, you can't lay any claim to it. When you dig on a lot that isn't yours, it doesn't mean you have some kind of right to it because you and your pals dug some jumps on it. Sure, props for building and maintaining them. But it pisses me off when people cop attitude like it's "our fricken lot, if you don't like it, beat it". That's lame and that isn't what biking is about.

Cool. I'm gonna go take out all the stunts on the shore and replace them with piles of logs. If anyone complains, they can go fuck themselves. It's not YOUR land.

[Excavator]

I don't even know where to really start with this thread Atari created.

First off, I am a lower mainland bmx rider that has put in numerous shovel hours at Oak, every time I show up there I try and bring my shovel. In fact a few times last year I showed up with every intent of riding and simply got caught up in trying to fix the place, 3 or 4 dig hours later and I would be happy. Even after 40 hours or so of digging in years past I still feel that when I show up there that I have no right to diss anyone there or anything that has been done. I simply am not around there enough (half a dozen times or so a summer) to have a say in what goes down.

To me dirt jumping and the ettiquete (sp?) that goes along with it has always been important to me, unless YOU are the trail boss (ie:the original/main builder) then you have no right to bitch before spending time behind a shovel. I learned to ride dirt jumps on a MTB (vps1 to be exact) at KY jumps in Coquitlam and had to learn right from the start that you fix what you ride. If you put flow time in at some trails you damn well put some shovel time in to.

This brings me to Atari freaking out about trails that he abuses (yeah you read that right Atari). You are straight up taking advantage of the Oak jumps, you admitted to Niggla that you have not put any shovel time in. I understand that you are new to Oak and from what it sounds like dirt jumping as well, i will just say heed Niggla's advice and go put some shovel time in. Forget about trying to defend yourself with the "I want to get a trail day going" excuse, your head seems to be in the right place but your muscles have to be doing the right thing as well. If work needs to get done, do you really need other people there to hold your hand? I don't think so. You and a shovel is all it takes.

Sorry if I sound to aggressive with this post but kids that have the attitude of Atari is on of the main reasons why I don't do very much work at my jump park in South Surrey anymore. I had to many noob jumpers showing up bitching about changes that where getting made by me and my buddies that helped dig. The truth of the matter is that 10-15% of the people who use trails/jumps do the work to keep them going, everyone else is simply there for the free ride. I am happy to help out when I see kids digging or repairing the jumps they use but you won't catch me doing work on public jumps (like Oak) anymore with jump poachers around in such large numbers.

Once again sorry for the ranting in this post, hope you all learn to dig before you bitch...

... just remember that you reap what you sow, MATT

[corey@nsmb.com]

Originally posted by M.W.
Cool. I'm gonna go take out all the stunts on the shore and replace them with piles of logs. If anyone complains, they can go fuck themselves. It's not YOUR land.


Solid argument.....because it's the same thing right?









If you are going to pipe up (and it's great that people do), at very least take a minute to comprehend what is being said before flapping off with a lame example based on an assumption you have made. :)

[brentomatic]

At some point in every thread all hell breaks loose. Again with the harshness. Why is it this way on this board?

$10.00 says I get flamed for this post!:???:

[FroJoe]

i can only think of about 4 or 5 of us that actually do any significant work to oak, and i can tell from experiencing numerous weekends 6-8 hours of work that it's damn hard to maintain, so i can understand peoples' frustration with it.

niggles is right, it turns to shat now usually, as it did in previous years, however now we have clay (not cow crap, felix) so i anticipate good things happening.

all that is needed to keep lips and such going is a little moisture, so if anyone DOES in fact bring shovels to dig, please try to bring some H20 too. a little moisture under a carpet can last a surprisingly long time, and can reduce the clay crackage a lot.

dEL: dig day is essential, Sat. 29 sounds dandy, i'll try to get the main guys out there, if anyone else is interested in coming, as i stated, liquid would be a HUGE help to getting the clay looking prime and permanent.

[Midas]

Originally posted by brentomatic
At some point in every thread all hell breaks loose. Again with the harshness. Why is it this way on this board?

$10.00 says I get flamed for this post!:???:


We like to create contrasversy and get people wriled up to keep things interesting.

[brentomatic]

You guys do a great job of it and I do find it interesting. Thanks for not flaming me!:D

[atari_]

Excavator. Think about what you said.
If I showed up by myself with a shovel, and started to do what I have alreaddy stated I think needs doing all that will be seen is some kid wrecking the jumps that where just built.
By goign and doing what I feel should be done, will just cause someone else to go and do what they feel should be done.
THAT is why I started this thread, THAT is why I wanted to organise a group dig. If others see why I want to do, what I want to do, then they will understand, and won't just undo the hours of work I spend.
Everyone that has flamed me in this thread have all said "Shut up, you havn't spent time digging"
BUT THAT"S EXACTLY WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET GOING.

saturday the 29th, I was planning on going to whistler. I'll forget about the mountain and come dig. Like someone else said, anyone showing up with trucks, bring lots of water.

we need people to bring shovles (both spades and flats) we need rakes and picks. Don't show up planning to spend 3 min digging, and then ride. Lets dig till it gets done.

The last thing we have to organise is what needs to get done first. If we don't organise that, we will have people all doing there own thing, and next thing you know, we're going to have 4 new half assed jumps ;) lets work together on this.

I want one small set of tables for people to learn on, the rest of the place can be anything you guys want to build, lets just build it well.

I also have spent countless hours, building and rebuilding the same jumps. We used to have a great set of jumps where I used to live, until every night dirtbikers would come and purposely tear them up for fun. Every night started with digging, ended with a bit or riding.

Saturday the 29th, lets get this done.

[243_ht]

Make them tables, i really don't care, Although there are some peope that might.

I'll come to the dig day too, but you probably wont see me touching the small set. As i can almost guarantee (and it wont be me) 6 months max until they are back to the way they were 7 years ago, but you obviously need a look into what digging at oak is really like.

Oh and i do believe i was there that day when those kids were jumping.

1) how does this have anything to do with your insatiable desire to make the small set tables?
2) There was no racist vibe that i can remember, unless you call laughing at a g-unit shirt racist.

ps. Did you ever even mention to anyone at oak making the small sets tables before you became "livid" with rage?

[tashi]

Funkin' nailed it - JUST GO AND DIG!!!


Originally posted by Excavator
I don't even know where to really start with this thread Atari created.

First off, I am a lower mainland bmx rider that has put in numerous shovel hours at Oak, every time I show up there I try and bring my shovel. In fact a few times last year I showed up with every intent of riding and simply got caught up in trying to fix the place, 3 or 4 dig hours later and I would be happy. Even after 40 hours or so of digging in years past I still feel that when I show up there that I have no right to diss anyone there or anything that has been done. I simply am not around there enough (half a dozen times or so a summer) to have a say in what goes down.

To me dirt jumping and the ettiquete (sp?) that goes along with it has always been important to me, unless YOU are the trail boss (ie:the original/main builder) then you have no right to bitch before spending time behind a shovel. I learned to ride dirt jumps on a MTB (vps1 to be exact) at KY jumps in Coquitlam and had to learn right from the start that you fix what you ride. If you put flow time in at some trails you damn well put some shovel time in to.

This brings me to Atari freaking out about trails that he abuses (yeah you read that right Atari). You are straight up taking advantage of the Oak jumps, you admitted to Niggla that you have not put any shovel time in. I understand that you are new to Oak and from what it sounds like dirt jumping as well, i will just say heed Niggla's advice and go put some shovel time in. Forget about trying to defend yourself with the "I want to get a trail day going" excuse, your head seems to be in the right place but your muscles have to be doing the right thing as well. If work needs to get done, do you really need other people there to hold your hand? I don't think so. You and a shovel is all it takes.

Sorry if I sound to aggressive with this post but kids that have the attitude of Atari is on of the main reasons why I don't do very much work at my jump park in South Surrey anymore. I had to many noob jumpers showing up bitching about changes that where getting made by me and my buddies that helped dig. The truth of the matter is that 10-15% of the people who use trails/jumps do the work to keep them going, everyone else is simply there for the free ride. I am happy to help out when I see kids digging or repairing the jumps they use but you won't catch me doing work on public jumps (like Oak) anymore with jump poachers around in such large numbers.

Once again sorry for the ranting in this post, hope you all learn to dig before you bitch...

... just remember that you reap what you sow, MATT

[-andy-]

NSMB.COM!!!!!!!!!

[Kyle the Hun]

Originally posted by corey@nsmb.com
Solid argument.....because it's the same thing right?









If you are going to pipe up (and it's great that people do), at very least take a minute to comprehend what is being said before flapping off with a lame example based on an assumption you have made. :)

I don't see how it is any different, care to explain?
Imagine what would happen if people thought Dangerous Dan's Ridiculator was too skinny and they wanted it to be easier so they turned it into a wide ladder bridge, or if someone thought the air supply gaps were too big so they got rid of the wooden jumps and made new ones closer. The builders of the trails would be really angry. Builders of dirt jumps put in every bit as much time digging as people spend building trails, what gives people the right to change other peoples' dirt jumps, but not the right to change trails to make it easier? The land that trails are on is usually just as public. I'm sure you have never spent hours upon hours building and maintaining dirt jumps (I was just at our jumps digging for an hour and a half maintaining, I usually have to do this once a week or so), so although I'm sure you think dirt jumps are a lot easier to build than trails and just magically build themselves, you can probably understand that dirt jump builders put in tons of time digging, and have every right to be angry when someone changes the jumps they had. I guess my main point is instead of messing around or changing someone else's jumps so they can be easier and you can learn, why don't you build your own? Then you can have something to spend as much time as you want learning on.

[corey@nsmb.com]

Originally posted by k-Bizzle
I don't see how it is any different, care to explain?

Not really. These same old-same old pissing matches don't interest me. I said what I wanted to say, read it how you like.

I don't even dirt jump, I just offered an outside non-biased opinion about how it seems.

[Kyle the Hun]

Originally posted by corey@nsmb.com
This is the same kind of elitist attitude he is talking about (no offense, but it is).

Unless you OWN that property, you can't lay any claim to it. When you dig on a lot that isn't yours, it doesn't mean you have some kind of right to it because you and your pals dug some jumps on it. Sure, props for building and maintaining them. But it pisses me off when people cop attitude like it's "our fricken lot, if you don't like it, beat it". That's lame and that isn't what biking is about.

Sorry if I come off as elitist, because I assure you that anyone who wants to hit our jumps, or try to hit our jumps is welcome to and will be encouraged. All I'm trying to say is that builders have every right to be angry when the jumps they spent so much time on get changed because someone doesn't like how they are, you would understand exactly if it ever happened to you, or someone changed one of your trails around. You can't stop people from learning to jump if they want to, but I just wish people would spend more time building their own jumps, then they would realize how much work it actually is.

[Kyle the Hun]

Originally posted by corey@nsmb.com
Not really. These same old-same old pissing matches don't interest me. I said what I wanted to say, read it how you like.

I don't even dirt jump, I just offered an outside non-biased opinion about how it seems.

Well then obviously it isn't different at all. Saying "I'm right and I know it." doesn't prove anything, all it proves is that you have no idea what you're talking about. An outside non-biased opinion doesn't really matter too much, becuase you are probably used to riding the trails that you spend 20 hours a year doing maintence, and don't have to worry about stuff like that. Sorry if this isn't true and you spend more time doing maintence, but I doubt it.

[corey@nsmb.com]

Originally posted by k-Bizzle
Well then obviously it isn't different at all. Saying "I'm right and I know it." doesn't prove anything, all it proves is that you have no idea what you're talking about. An outside non-biased opinion doesn't really matter too much, becuase you are probably used to riding the trails that you spend 20 hours a year doing maintence, and don't have to worry about stuff like that. Sorry if this isn't true and you spend more time doing maintence, but I doubt it.


"Saying "I'm right and I know it." doesn't prove anything" I never said that, and it proves you are putting words in my mouth to make this more fun for you.

This has nothing to do with what I ride or what I do for the mtb community. Keep it on topic, this thread isn't about me and I never directed it to become personal, you did.

Cheers...don't waste your time being angry man, it just isn't worth it.

[bunny]

my guess would be that taking stunts out and replacing them with piles of logs is just silly. :P

but why do these guys keep saying "just go dig"? so they can put it back the way they want the next day/week/month? seems pretty retarded to me.

no shore builder would tell you to "just go build". they would at least say it like it is... "fuck off. leave my trail alone. go build your own."

ps. also we don't tell people that don't maintain trails that they aren't allowed to ride them.

[Kyle the Hun]

Originally posted by bunnytron
ps. also we don't tell people that don't maintain trails that they aren't allowed to ride them.

And no dirt jump builder (that I know) ever tells people who don't dig to go away either, I don't know where you got that from.

No one is saying to "pick up a shovel and go dig", people are saying to "pick up a shovel and dig your own jumps if you don't like how these ones are."

[Flow]

frick you people bitch more than skaters do about bikes

[blinded]

I think the biggest problem here is not so obvious, but it is the fact that half of the people that ride don't understand that riding dirt and maintaining dirt jumps takes a lot more work than one trail day every other month. If you ride at Oak regularly, dig there every single time you ride. Hook up with the builders (who, no doubt, aren't too stoked that the place seems overcrowded?) and help them out when they are working on their stuff, and maybe try getting some input in on some stuff that you would like to build.

It sucks showing up at your jumps to find out someone went ahead and dug the next jump in the set, or fixed up a lip and it really sucked. It is a crappy situation, but it happens all the time, it stinks. There is an attitude by many mountain bikers that dirt jumps are easy to build and don't take much work, I used to be just like this until I actually got a set of jumps going and trying to maintain them!

Trail-Drama is the best.

[Midas]

Originally posted by atari_
I moved to van 6 months ago. I got a bike a month ago (after over a year of not riding) When I started going to Oak, it was in great condiition, no diggin needed.

So my answer is none. This is why I'm trying to arganise a dig day, so I can change that.

Cant you go dig alone? I mean I have built tons of stuff on my own I didnt need to organise a big day on the internet to go dig wiht people. I have gone alone o with a coupple of friends pretty much every time i have dug. And I dig alot.

[Excavator]

I would like to start off by apologizing once again, I knew what I said was going to be misunderstood for some pompous dirt jump builder getting pissed, but hey the attitudes of people that abuse the dirt jumps out there really makes ME livid.

I understand Atari that you don't feel likle you should go to Oak to dig and make changes that the main builders will be pissed at, that isn't what I was suggesting. I meant that you should use your best judgement, do work within reason until you know the low down of what the plan is. Chances are the builders don't care that there isn't a place for people to learn dirt jumping. I know that when I build jumps I build ones that are a little on the scary side, this is great at detering the new dirt jumpers from just showing up to ride around a bit and not actually help to get any real work or digging done.

Another point that interests me is if you have actually done work on dirt jumps before (especially ones that dirt bikers could hit up) then you should damn well know what is an acceptable amount of work. That seems like another lame ass excuse for you not to be digging, i am sorry but that just does not sound right to me. If I am totally wrong then my apologies.

To anyone who is not sure on how to build, the solution is simple, just ask. Most trail bosses are good people, they tend to be a little intimidating at first but if you let it be known that you can work a shovel (real hard eh?) then tell them you are willing to learn how to do a little repair work properly. You would be soooo suprised to find out how many professors of dirt there are out there. I know that I am happier than a pig in shite if someone approaches me to ask if they can help dig or even better learn how to properly do trail construction.

Lastly, when you are digging a set, CLOSE IT. That simple boys and girls, if you are work on a line and don't want anyone riding go up and put your bike on top of the jump. Use your bike as a barrier, if someone touches it enlighten them that you are making an effort to make the jumps better and for everyone's safety at that time the line is closed. Better yet, if it a trail day, close the whole place down, grab a load of bikes, logs, debris, anything just block the access to the jumps. People have no right to complain about not jumping if there is alot of work going down.

Bunnytron - From what it sounds like you are an active shore trail worker I hope you can sympathize a little with the plight of the dirt jump builder. I am sure you have a ball of fire burning inside when you are slaving away up the hill and some far-out righteous freeriding dud comes bounding down the trail only to pedal on by as your busting your ass. I know that we may sound extreme but there is alot, and i mean ALOT, of inconsiderate jack-asses out there that have a million and one excuses to not stop and help get work done. Hell I can remember a few times waaaay back in the day where I was guilty of floating on by a trail crew back in the day, i was young and had not been educated as to what proper trail ettiquete was.

All in all, i just want to say, don't be afraid to pick up a shovel and get a little dirty, you would be suprised how much more fun dirt jumps are when you have actually earned a little air time, THANKS AND FLAME AWAY.......


....CHEERS MATT G:beer:

[twofortythree]

Originally posted by corey@nsmb.com
This is the same kind of elitist attitude he is talking about (no offense, but it is).

Unless you OWN that property, you can't lay any claim to it. When you dig on a lot that isn't yours, it doesn't mean you have some kind of right to it because you and your pals dug some jumps on it. Sure, props for building and maintaining them. But it pisses me off when people cop attitude like it's "our fricken lot, if you don't like it, beat it". That's lame and that isn't what biking is about.

i am a main builder of some jumps and i know how that guy feels, you are right, he doesnt own it and blah blah blah, but when you does a hole shitload of work and come back the next day and people have roleld over lide and crank cased what you made perfect the day before it is really disapointing.

[M.W.]

Originally posted by bunnytron
my guess would be that taking stunts out and replacing them with piles of logs is just silly. :P

"fuck off. leave my trail alone. go build your own."



You understand.

[M.W.]

Originally posted by -andy-
NSMB.COM!!!!!!!!!

I KNOW HIM!!!!!!

[the flying moose]

Originally posted by Excavator
....CHEERS MATT G:beer:

well said.

BTW how are the south surrey jumps? you were keeping them in surprisingly good shape last summer for how dry it was. do they have dig days there? they are the closest jumps to my house and i wouldnt mind honing my dj skills this summer and if i can help out then thats all the better.

[white ri0t]

I think you guys should go out to Oak and beat the piss out of each other with your shovels. The loser(s) get buried in the jumps, Great Wall of China style. The rotting carrion will prevent anyone from moving the jumps around.

[Excavator]

Thanks Flying Moose, the south surrey jump park is now beat to death. You can still have fun on the jumps but they are a mere shade of what they were in the past. I gave up on coming out and working because i was fighting a losing battle with the local riders. 5% of the riders that used the jumps did the work for everyone else, after hundreds of hours of labour just from myslef in getting the place to the way it was last summer it was pretty disappointing to see what has happened to it. There is the odd kid that takes care of the place by smoothing things out a little bit but that is it. I have no idea how we are expected to hold a dirt jam this year without a stupid amount of shovel time ahead.:(

Anyways as far as dig days are concerned I am not going to bother with any until I the first week of June, my BCIT exam week finishes the 28th of May, sooooo. Besides there is a grand total of 4 (maaaybe 5 or 6) people that would actually show up to work. The jumps have so much potential to be way more than what they are but without more commitment from some more people they will just whittle away to nothing over the summer.

Anyways enough of me yammering on, thanks again,
CHEERS MATT

[the flying moose]

Originally posted by Excavator
Thanks Flying Moose, the south surrey jump park is now beat to death. You can still have fun on the jumps but they are a mere shade of what they were in the past. I gave up on coming out and working because i was fighting a losing battle with the local riders. 5% of the riders that used the jumps did the work for everyone else, after hundreds of hours of labour just from myslef in getting the place to the way it was last summer it was pretty disappointing to see what has happened to it. There is the odd kid that takes care of the place by smoothing things out a little bit but that is it. I have no idea how we are expected to hold a dirt jam this year without a stupid amount of shovel time ahead.:(

Anyways as far as dig days are concerned I am not going to bother with any until I the first week of June, my BCIT exam week finishes the 28th of May, sooooo. Besides there is a grand total of 4 (maaaybe 5 or 6) people that would actually show up to work. The jumps have so much potential to be way more than what they are but without more commitment from some more people they will just whittle away to nothing over the summer.

Anyways enough of me yammering on, thanks again,
CHEERS MATT

damn thats too bad. well if you guysdo decide to dig again just fire me off a PM andill do my bestto come dig.

[sir HUCK-A-LOT]

i only quickly skimmed this thread, so i may have missed some stuff.

people who dig at other peoples jumps for themselves should be shot on the spot and used as filler. as a fellow digger i have myself given up on building jumps. people just are too self centered.

there are 2 certain individuals who basically poached a lot of the stuff that me and a group of people built on more than 1 occasion a few years ago, and that basically did it for me. i am all for building for others to enjoy, but when others take it upon themselves to change things, and rebuild them after you tear them down to change them yourself, it just pisses me off.

if oak needs some TLC and someone local or who riders there often wants to organize a dig day i will be there to dig

[Tool]

the reality is oak is and never will be the way it was a few years ago.

As some people might say, it's been 'poached'. Guess what? It happens, it sucks but oh well. Unless it's in your own backyard there is nothing that can be done. It happens on trails, you build, they come, they complain, but you have to take that into consideration if you build in a public place and if you wanna bitch and complain that really is your own problem.

I respect the hard work that people put into building but not everyone should build so telling people to just go dig just adds to the problem. I don't think Oak's problem is with not enough people to build, the problems are:

1. The lack of water is definalty #1

2. There is no sense of direction, some people WANT some things and other people WANT other things, ex. gaps or tables. Well IMO with the reality of Oak being so public (the city is well aware and probably prefers the fact that it would benefit EVERYONE) it would be better that have jumps that meets the needs of everyone would be the best. That means variety, we all don't need 3 or 4 sets of the same jumps with little variation.

I'm sorry, but going on pretending that these jumps belong to an exclusive group is not realistic. Hopefully with the jumps at UBC being built it will take some heat off the oak jumps and then we'll see, but as of now we must deal with it

[jro]

For one I have to agree with tearing down the small set.

Not for the fact that small sets shouldn't be allowed but for the fact that the lines were just too close to each other, having three lines and only having two (sometimes only one) available to one rider at a time seams like a waste.

For the guy who "really" wants to build but doesn't want to piss off the flow of the other jumps sounds kinda lame, oak isn't the smallest place and the jumps don't need to intersect one another.

I have been to Oak a few times to show a few friends from out of town dirt jumps and where I lost alot of blood (Damn Marzocchi's) and when I have gone there I have seen the same folks there sweating it out by shoveling and moving monsterous roots (thanks CMac and the other guys).

This controversy is always going to happen and bitching and wanting to kick people in the nuts is WEAK. I have built stuff in the quiet little redneck mountain town that I used to live in only to have people bitch to me about not making something for everyone, ohhh yahhh that really wanted to make me go out and build more.

I agree that there should be a place for everybody to jump and unfortunatly it isn't the people bitching about it that are building it. It is probably the same guys that build the good stuff that lend a few extra hours on the shovel to keep the whiners out of their hair and so their countless hours of work don't get rolled over and kicked smaller so "everyone can jump".

As far as ignorance killing Oak, isn't it a little ironic that these "ignorant" people are the ones that are the only ones keeping it alive and have been for quite some time.

[Del]

OK! So, the 29th then?! :)

[243_ht]

No these "ignorant" people have pretty much given up.

Its funny because dave emmens told me they stopped working and riding there for a very simmilar reason.

[Del]

oh well... ill still be there

[Emmens]

how about i call the city tell them that our crue is very sorry that we ever built jumps there and if the city could please kill this horrible thing that is causing so many people such emotional grief and when it is done we can just ride around in circles on the flat ground and not worry about gaps or if the jumps are too close together or if the lips are perfect cause there won't be anything left to ride and therefor nothing to complain about

[atari_]

Originally posted by Del
OK! So, the 29th then?! :)

29th sounds great.

[wrecked]

that would be me who FIXED the small set

[4x4 style]

Originally posted by atari_
Ok, the jumps where doing great. Now tonnes of work has been put in. So now we have 4 jumps that are all half assed. Small sets arn't there for good bikers to ride. they're there for people to learn. Making them gaps is just rude. The good riders don't want to hit a 3 foot lip, they'll ride the bigger ones. The people that do want to ride a small lip, don't care if it's a table or not. And the people that want to learn can't. It's not right that because we learnt before them, we're not goign to give them a chance to learn.

There are some great ideas happening at oak. All I want to see is the small set put back to a good warmup/learning set. Tables. Run ups and outs cleaned up, and the lips worked on.

There are lots of people willing to do work out there. The problem is, when they all get together, it's more funt o build a new big jump, then to fix the ones that need some work.

All you people that are defending it, wake up. Making hte SMALL set tables that anyone can ride, will not effect you in any way. You'll still be busting it off the big ones.

It was also said that it's better to leave out the 80% of people because they wreck the place and don't lift a shovel.
Every person who does do work there and is in that 20% started off in the 80%. You all learnt on smaller jumps. Oak is not Private land, it's for everyone. If you want nothing but big gaps, start digging in your back yard (Like Super T did ;)) i am one of the 4 main builders and i have been digging there all year long don't tell me that the jumps were fine a couple weeks ago fool they were shit 3 weeks ago and nothing even worked at least now you have some stuff to jump while we rebuild the rythem set. i have never seen you pick up a shovel whoever the hell you are so if you want small jumps go build ur own and learn the way we did.

[SIDESHOW]

wow what a useless thread, too bad its about something that is so important to so many of us.


whoever altered the small set, deserves a kick in the nuts. That line was pounded in so nice after years of being ridden. This line was fun for beginners to learn and for high-enders to rip through. When something works that good you leave it, and build around.........altering that line was selfish, and shortsighted.

Oak has potential for 3 good lines, the small set, and the 2 set were working nice. Laziness is the problem, it takes alot of time and effort to build a good line, and keep it for more than six months. As everyone can see it never happens, so by destroying the one line that has managed to stay through all the bullshit and opinions.....................

all I can say is that Oak is maintained by a dedicated but confused group. They have never been able to agree on what to do. I have friends that have commited serious time to that place, and lots of others that have given up.

I'm tired of folks trying to "improve" lines that work, because they feel like it that day, but then they don't finish.


flame on me, then look at the history of that place. No where else do so many selfish peeps empower themselves to make these changes.


it is possible to have 3 good lines that work all the time, with 15-20 people they could be built in 1 weekend.

problem is nobody wants to have their work disrespected by the locals??????


Just because you guys spend alot of time there does not mean you own it.

[SIDESHOW]

rebuild the small set. It was not yours to remove. It has been built and maintained by alot of peeps over the last 6??? years. You guys had no right to remove it or make it bigger. I say this because I can think of more than myself.


Get off your asses and build a new set. Flame me all you want.


Why the fuck would I go and work my ass off so that I can come back in 2 weeks and find it changed.....this is why no one wants to help.

Stop the crybaby routine about how no-one helps, and think about why???????????


3 sets of jumps forever. The best jump zones in the world, grow on top of themselves, they don't get revamped every 2 months.

[243_ht]

Originally posted by SIDESHOW
rebuild the small set. It was not yours to remove. It has been built and maintained by alot of peeps over the last 6??? years. You guys had no right to remove it or make it bigger. I say this because I can think of more than myself.


Get off your asses and build a new set. Flame me all you want.


Why the fuck would I go and work my ass off so that I can come back in 2 weeks and find it changed.....this is why no one wants to help.

Stop the crybaby routine about how no-one helps, and think about why???????????


3 sets of jumps forever. The best jump zones in the world, grow on top of themselves, they don't get revamped every 2 months.

I completly agree with what you are saying, but the thing is besides the jumps being changed back to gaps like they have always been, the jumps have not been changed and are by no means bigger, the guy complaining seems to think that no dirt in the middle makes the jump bigger.

[SIDESHOW]

hmmmmm???? I guess I'll head on over there tomorrow, and see whats up for sure.............


Such a great jump spot, now if we could all work together.

[4x4 style]

Originally posted by SIDESHOW
hmmmmm???? I guess I'll head on over there tomorrow, and see whats up for sure.............


Such a great jump spot, now if we could all work together. ya don't worry corey the small set is exactly the same and all the other jumps are starting to get good again too. i will be there tomarrow after school and probably a coupleother days this week like every other week in this year. i am willing to help people build there own new line if they don't like what we have there is room for you to make a small table set if you think our small set is to big.

[SIDESHOW]

yo my knee is still pretty swollen so no jumpy for me........I hobbled by this morning and I actually thought it looked pretty rad....

i can definatley see why peeps are more afraid of that small set now...... its really the same jump, just a little burlier.....

I was in a flame-on mood last night fer sure,

[Troup]

I guess the dig day didn't happen because it's now more than a year later and the small set still remains gaps...

[Dantes Inferno]

I think people should look at Aline, all Tables and fun for everyone.

[BrianPark]

There are two kinds of dirt jump spots: 1. the kind where there is easy stuff, and caters to everyone, and 2. the kind that is built, ridden, and kept in good shape by a group of riders, who only cater to intermediate and better riders.

The second kind will ALWAYS have nicer, better maintained jumps.

Oak doesn't know what it is, but because EVERYONE knows where it is, I think it should be the first one. It needs a beginner line, but in all honesty, those gaps are TINY. I think my little brother (who has ridden like 10 times in his life) would hit them.

[S-Dawg]

i was there about 20 mins ago and i too first learned to dj on that line. It is now smaller than when i was first there and are perfect jumps for people to learn on, there is no skill required just ride of the jump(not a bad thing) the only one a begginer might have a hard time with is the last one, but thats wut the brakes are for. I took a guy who got his first bike the same day and he did them. That line is the least of the problem the whole place is screwed, ive never ridden the biggest lines but the new one to the right is retarded. just go ride ur bike off a jump and stop whinning

[BrianPark]

Unless it's changed in the last month, the line on the right is the best line there!

[S-Dawg]

The jumps are good its the first roller and roller jump thing that screw me over. If i nail those the rest r fine but im on a big bike and i can pump that bump for shit. not to mention the huge puddles that collect in the bottom of every jump.

[BrianPark]

Wait... you're jumping a big bike in a set of dirtjumps built by bmxers, admit you can't do the (pretty much vital) roller/pump thing, and you say the jumps are screwed?

Oh god, a MINOR drainage problem (that you could solve by, you know, scooping a bit of water with a bucket) means the JUMPS ARE ALL SCREWED!

[S-Dawg]

haha minor drainage problem, have u been there? the bottom of the jumps fill with water couple feet deep if its rained in the past week and i can do the roller but the fact its even there is dumb. the majority of the people there are not bmxers, but if it where to be removed ud never hear the ebd of it, "we built it so dont touch it" every person there including the people busting huge have a hard time with it. Im definatley not the only one complaning bout that bump, the solution would to just hit the big line, but basically i suck, so i'll countinue to blame it on the jumps.

[BrianPark]

haha minor drainage problem, have u been there? the bottom of the jumps fill with water couple feet deep if its rained in the past week and i can do the roller but the fact its even there is dumb. the majority of the people there are not bmxers, but if it where to be removed ud never hear the ebd of it, "we built it so dont touch it" every person there including the people busting huge have a hard time with it. Im definatley not the only one complaning bout that bump, the solution would to just hit the big line, but basically i suck, so i'll countinue to blame it on the jumps.

...there's always a bucket or shovel around, or a stick, or some carpet, to get the water out. It's not a big deal.

I don't care who rides it MOST. BMXers built it, and that's what they're there for. If you can't do the line because it's too tight for your squishy bike, don't blame the jumps, blame the bike (or yourself, whatever).

The bump is there to guage your speed etc. Even if you don't like it, it still doesn't mean the whole right set "IS SCREWED".

[M@M]

i went there this afternoon with thoughts of scoping out the jumps, maybe trying the small middle set. When I arrived, I saw a whole bunch of guys jumping, all of which were about 1000x better than me. Also, I was hardly equipped to jump, i just happed to be on my bike riding near, and I decided to stop by. From the looks of things, the big jumps have seen alot of really good work, and the lips look super smooth. Keep up the work diggers!

[Emmens]

That bump was hacked out sometime on saturday. We were there in the morning on saturday and it was there. We were there in the morning on sunday and it was not. That is retarded. I wouldn't go up to upper oilcan and cut out a stunt I can't ride, so why would people think that it's okay to hack out stuff they can't ride on some jumps that someone else spent hours building?

If you can't ride something, learn to ride it, don't alter it so you can or say that it "sucks."

And for the record, everyone I was with thinks that the line was way worse off with the roller gone than with it there. So we put it back. Luckily it started raining so that the dirt would pack in, otherwise it would have been too dusty to do anything about it.

I will never understand the mentality that it's okay to screw around with jumps that people have built, when the same people would NEVER touch a stunt that someone has built on the mountain.

This enrages me greatly.

[S-Dawg]

i absoulutly agree and never had any intention to take out the roller. Im happy that whoever built the jumps did build them, and they can make them however they want.

[Dantes Inferno]

I dont really have a problem dirt jumping my SC bullit, and last night i dirt jumped on my friends Giant Team DH. But i guess the Lafarge 8 pak is easier, i gotta get out to oak some time. Rollers are always good to gauge speed, i think the first jump in a set should be just to get ready for the rest anyway.

[SkunkworkS]

I have got to get my bikeless ass and shovel out to Oak.

Is it REALLY that bad? (I haven't been there in a month) Last time I was there, was during the Dig Day. Awesome digging and riding going on...

[S-Dawg]

No it isnt that bad the big lines look nice and the small one is fine too. The end of the new line ie the last two jumps could use a little work but arent bad, a little soft and taken a bit of a beating. And i guess the wallride could come down id people are really upset about it. I would be happy to help, but dont really no what im doing. so pm if u want to do some work.