damn ferry strike

[KOW49]

delaying freight to the shop! my rim is yet to delayed longer :(



:censored: :censored: :censored: :censored:

[Rampager]

Damn man, that sucks. I got my digi camera today. Horray for digital camreas!

[The_Real_Yeti]

that sucks:(

[Battlecat]

They should fire them all, they hire them back for less money because they will need a job:thepimp:

[Coop]

You're a genius BP, I wonder why you havent found yourself at the reins of government yet....

[KOW49]

Originally posted by Coop
You're a genius BP, I wonder why you havent found yourself at the reins of government yet....

liberals party is full :rolleyes:

[Rosscofat]

hahaha they cant fire them thats why they have a union lol

[Neo]

that sux bryan :(

[Rampager]

Haha blaine, i remember when you called bryan a poser... oh geeze

[Neo]

i did?? when was that? i never called him a poser ever that i can remember. in fact, poser isnt a word that i use actually. i did say he talked trash on occasion but i know he doesn't like he did when he was first starting out cuz now he rips. lol

you two up for some riding this sunday?

[Heatmizer]

Originally posted by Rosscofat
hahaha they cant fire them thats why they have a union lol

Don't kid yourselves - this the liberal government that tore up legally binding contracts and didn't even blink.

I'm not going to get into an arguement about it, but there's a lot of ways to bust unions.

As an example, the CEO of Telus was brought over from Ireland because he's a professional union buster - hence he's been tearing apart Telus (at the expense of everyone) ever since. While he hasn't destroyed the union, he's done a real good job of crippling it.

[Rampager]

Yeah true, sorry. Riding sunday, sure! When and where?

[Neo]

Originally posted by RampageRider
Yeah true, sorry. Riding sunday, sure! When and where?

not sure where yet, but let's say around 10:30 or 11 am then we can ride most of the day if weather permits. if bryan gets his wheel he should join us.

[Del]

These pricks can eat shit and die. I am so pissed right now. If its not fixed by the 17th then i have to buy a plane ticket home. My friends dad already has it organized for us. Im going to edmonton this christmas and ill swim home if I have to. But not before throwing a brick through the bc ferries office window in downtown vic.

[Ashek]

The union is on strike because the contract that was put in front of them is basically not a contract, but more along the lines of a pink slip. "We are offering you 30% less pay, 16% more work, no retirement package, and were cancelling everything you fought for your workers in the last 30 years. Oh yeah, and were (management) all getting big bonuses for the great job we did on the contract" As someone who takes the ferry to vancouver to work every day, im fucking pissed at this government, this is just another blip in the string of privatizations they've made, this is simply the one that affects the public at large the most.

[counterpoint]

You will see the same thing with TELUS in about 2 months. You should see the screw job in that new contract.

[Bryce]

:rolleyes: this is the Shore forum, not the Ferry Strike forum

Kidding :D

I'm not even gonna pretend to know the details of the strike, I just hope all the families sleeping in their cars at the termnals and truckers with perishable goods get to their destination soon.

[Ashek]

well, looks like im stuck in vancouver, anyone wanna put me up for the night? ;)

[Stinky_Rider]

Nooooo, I hope they dun strike for too long:(

-Chris

[Heatmizer]

Well there are 2 sides to every story Ashek.

Don't forget to mention that under the current contract working 1 minute past your shift equals 2 hours of pay (1 full hour of OT, all OT is double time). That's a whole lot of incentive to finish the crossword puzzle or finish talking about nothing with your co workers before you punch out.

Let them have their retirement packages and wages etc, but that overtime clause is why it cost you so damned much to ride the ferry.

Stay 1 minute late every day for 2 weeks (10 work days), they currently have a 35 hour work week, and those extra 10 minutes magically turn in to 20 hours extra pay.

So if I work 70 hours I get paid for 70 hours. If I work 70 hours and 10 minutes I get paid for 90 hours.

Anyone (and everyone in the union does) will waste that extra minute a day to get those extra 20 hours pay per cheque.

Almost a 30% raise for an extra 10 minutes "work" over a 2 week period.

I think it's called a scam, and I have no respect for anyone that takes advantage of that kinda crap - those are MY (and all of yours) tax dollars paying those jerk offs to hang out for that extra minute and pocket the extra 30%.

[KOW49]

Originally posted by Dante Alighieri
i did?? when was that? i never called him a poser ever that i can remember. in fact, poser isnt a word that i use actually. i did say he talked trash on occasion but i know he doesn't like he did when he was first starting out cuz now he rips. lol

you two up for some riding this sunday?

where abouts?

[IFO]

Originally posted by Heatmizer
Well there are 2 sides to every story Ashek.

Don't forget to mention that under the current contract working 1 minute past your shift equals 2 hours of pay (1 full hour of OT, all OT is double time). That's a whole lot of incentive to finish the crossword puzzle or finish talking about nothing with your co workers before you punch out.

Let them have their retirement packages and wages etc, but that overtime clause is why it cost you so damned much to ride the ferry.

Stay 1 minute late every day for 2 weeks (10 work days), they currently have a 35 hour work week, and those extra 10 minutes magically turn in to 20 hours extra pay.

So if I work 70 hours I get paid for 70 hours. If I work 70 hours and 10 minutes I get paid for 90 hours.

Anyone (and everyone in the union does) will waste that extra minute a day to get those extra 20 hours pay per cheque.

Almost a 30% raise for an extra 10 minutes "work" over a 2 week period.

I think it's called a scam, and I have no respect for anyone that takes advantage of that kinda crap - those are MY (and all of yours) tax dollars paying those jerk offs to hang out for that extra minute and pocket the extra 30%.

i beleive you forgot to mention the Union Cashiers who get paid 20$ a hour to run a cash register....

WTF???? how the hell did that pay rate ever get justifed ???

No Sympathy for people who are overpayed and know it....:mad:

[RiDiCuLoUs]

they get payed too much as it is, what are they complaining for!!!!!!!

[Ashek]

First off, they arent paid for being cashiers.
They are paid for the emergency response and rescue courses and tickets that are required for every crew member that is on a ship, and count towards the licensed amount of pasengers the ferry can take. Oh, and the time they get off isnt dictated by the time they 'decide to punch out' but rather at what time the ferry docks. If the ferry is late, they get paid extra. If not, they dont get squat. Also, its not like its their CHOICE to do overtime or not. You're stuck on a boat.

[brock]

Holding the island hostage is probably not the best way to get people to sympathize with you.

[Neo]

Originally posted by KOW49
where abouts?

wherever. is your wheel going to be ready? haha ive never even seen your 4hun.

[Del]

Newfies are the dumbest things alive.














Except Jason King.



Those plotting mariners and their boats have something to do with this... i guarantee it.

[Lady Gravity]

Originally posted by brock
Holding the island hostage is probably not the best way to get people to sympathize with you.

no kidding
apparently the new leader of the union has a reputation for sticking her heels in...this could get very ugly for those on the island :(

[Del]

Originally posted by Lady Gravity
no kidding
apparently the new leader of the union has a reputation for sticking her heels in...this could get very ugly for those on the island :(

Most likely an overweight Newfie witch.

[FatHack]

Ooooh, that's getting nasty.

There's other ways off the island, let em strike until they get what they want. This is all a case of the gov union bashing. They longer they go without arbitration, the more angst ppl will have about not having a ferry, the less outcry there will be when they tear up contracts and dissolve the union.

Look at it this way, as is, car and driver is ~$40 each way, but the gov't loses a ton of money on the ferries, what is the other realistic option? Privatization? Not really when private industry doesn't want to lose money, that means that fares go up b/c you can't pay a cashier with all of the certs needed to work on a boat minimum wage. That means that in the end we either pay them higher wages or pay some company more through fares.

Personally I'd rather see it go straight to the workers via tax dollars that are already there than have to pay double everytime I cross.

[brock]

Forgive me for my ignorance but, what are all of the "certs" that are needed to be a cashier on the boat? Do the booth cashiers on land have these same certs and are they paid the same?

Can anyone provide some real figures on pay scales?

It would really benefit the union to have some real info on their website. Maybe a page that decribes in a reasonable level of detail what the issues are and their positions on them. When I looked last night all I could find was a bunch of rhetoric and vague statements.

[FatHack]

Originally posted by brock
Forgive me for my ignorance but, what are all of the "certs" that are needed to be a cashier on the boat? Do the booth cashiers on land have these same certs and are they paid the same?

Can anyone provide some real figures on pay scales?

It would really benefit the union to have some real info on their website. Maybe a page that decribes in a reasonable level of detail what the issues are and their positions on them. When I looked last night all I could find was a bunch of rhetoric and vague statements.

My GF worked for ferries in their office. Your average boat type worker ie casheir, gets around $20 and hour, they're union, so if you've been there longer, you don't get any more $$. They all have to be transport canada safety certified, which means that they know how to fight fires on a ship and evacuate you safely in the event of an emergency. Doesn't seem like much day to day, but that's a lot of extra stress that a cashier working at sevo doesn't have. Also, it's not as if every worker is full time monday to friday, it takes about 5 years of being on call to get fulltime. I support them, if your boss came to you and said that you were dropping $3/hr in wage and you needed that job to feed you family and pay for your house, you'd be pretty pissed too.

EDIT: I believe everyone in the same classification gets the same pay rate and are essentially interchangable. Not sure if land and boat cashiers are the same, but I seem to recall that they both do both.

[Rat]

From what I understand the extra training they do is paid for by BC Ferries while being paid by BC Ferries.

[Rat]

On a lighter note a company I worked for a long time ago had a phone number that was one digit off BC ferries info line. When someone asked a question regarding the ferries we would tell them that they had called BC Fairies the gay and lesbian hotline.

lots of laughs on the speaker phone .

[FatHack]

Ya, their training is paid for, but I think that it's the responsibility that they have that they're getting compensated for. That and having to work on a boat.

[brock]

Originally posted by FatHack
My GF worked for ferries in their office. Your average boat type worker ie casheir, gets around $20 and hour, they're union, so if you've been there longer, you don't get any more $$. They all have to be transport canada safety certified, which means that they know how to fight fires on a ship and evacuate you safely in the event of an emergency. Doesn't seem like much day to day, but that's a lot of extra stress that a cashier working at sevo doesn't have. Also, it's not as if every worker is full time monday to friday, it takes about 5 years of being on call to get fulltime. I support them, if your boss came to you and said that you were dropping $3/hr in wage and you needed that job to feed you family and pay for your house, you'd be pretty pissed too.

EDIT: I believe everyone in the same classification gets the same pay rate and are essentially interchangable. Not sure if land and boat cashiers are the same, but I seem to recall that they both do both.



You are right. I would be pissed. In fact, I’d go find a new job. Problem here is they would have to go find jobs and accept pay that is in line with the work that they are doing. Since no one is going to pay a cashier $20 an hour anywhere else, they take the islands hostage.

Sorry but from where I sit, those certs don’t add up to over 50k a year. That’s putting what they do up with cops and firefighters. The added stress argument does not hold water when looked at in those terms.

Like I said before, more specific info as to what is going on would help. I am interested in the whole story but the more I hear about it, the more the union is sounding like overpaid selfish whiners.

[Rat]

The Cashiers that work on the port Angeles ferry make $11 an hour and have the same training as the BC ferries cashiers. I doubt they have trouble finding employees who dont need to be compensated for working on a boat.

[FatHack]

You're off by $10G (40G/yr) and most of them don't work fulltime, so it's more like 30G/yr, which really isn't that much after taxes. How much would be an acceptable hourly wage for them? I think that's a more realistic ? ( and will stimultate more responses) than arguing about whether or not they have the correct rate of pay.

[FatHack]

Originally posted by Rat
The Cashiers that work on the port Angeles ferry make $11 an hour and have the same training as the BC ferries cashiers. I doubt they have trouble finding employees who dont need to be compensated for working on a boat.

I guess some ppl have a harder time with jobs than others. You wouldn't catch me doing that job for $11/hr. But if I needed a job, i might be singing a different song. It's interesting to know what others think on these matters, perceptions of pay scales seem to vary so much from person to person.

[brock]

Originally posted by FatHack
You're off by $10G (40G/yr) and most of them don't work fulltime, so it's more like 30G/yr, which really isn't that much after taxes. How much would be an acceptable hourly wage for them? I think that's a more realistic ? ( and will stimultate more responses) than arguing about whether or not they have the correct rate of pay.

You are right. My bad on the math it's 41,600 for 40 hour weeks. And if most of them don't work full time, who is getting all this overtime people keep talking about?

The correct rate of pay would be whatever the current job market will bear. What do cashiers make in BC? What would the unemployed people in the province accept as pay for those positions if all of the ferry workers were fired and they took applications to restaff?

Is this an arguement? I was thinking more along the lines of discussion.

[FatHack]

Not so much an argument, more a reflection of the argument that is going on in the BC media. It's fair to say that the avg BC cashier gets slightly more than minimum wage, so maybe about 9$ and hour. I think that the key flaw in firing them all and rehiring is that the ppl in the jobs now are probably the most qualified, I guess unless you were an unemployed ferry worker, then you wouldn't know how much you would work for. The issue is also further confounded by it being under gov't control (a complicated canadian thing, where it used to be public, but then they took the public ppl and made them sorta private, but accountable to the gov't:rolleyes:). I think that to get qualified ppl in there you would have to pay atleast 15/hr, add on the cost of retraining and I'll bet it ends up close to what they make now.

On a side note, when on call for the ferries, you can't have another job, b/c you can't say no when they call you. Also you have to be able to be at the terminal in 30min. I think that this is worth some extra pay on it's own.

[Heatmizer]

A lot of the problem is with the union structure.

Bob has 20 yrs experience and gets his 35 hours a week (standard BC Ferries work week according to everything I've read)

Bill is new, only 9 months on the job, he gets between 15-20 hours a week.

Phil calls in sick for his shift (wjo gives a crap about Phil's seniority in this case)

According to the union contract, Phil's shift MUST be offered in order of seniority, so unless EVERY available full timer declines the extra cash, Bill is screwed.

THe Gov't would like to be able to offer those shifts to the part timers 1st, and yes it's about money. If they can give an extra 8 hours at regular time to a part timre than 8 hours double time to a full timer, it saves the company money - AND it also helps out the little guy.

The union is no different than the Gov't in these cases - the union creates a 2 tier wealth system and abuses the junior members. Anyone here want to eat Craft Dinner for the next ten years trying to get full time while big fat Bob can pull in $100k + per year taking every overtime shift he can.

If it's all about safety, I think they need to institute a safety code much the same as truckers have - say you are not allowed to work more than 10 hours a day since you're responsible for people's lives.

Oh, and according to BC Ferries, the starting age for a deckhand (noob) is $42k, and the supervisors and cooks etc get about $52-55k

BC Ferries paid out $9 million+ dollars in overtime (with your tax dollars) for probably about $200k worth of extra work.

And please don't try and feed me any shit that unions look after the new guy - my father was in 3 unions for 30+ years (yes all 3 at the same time), and they treat every new guy like the family dog - he gets the scraps when everyone else is full. (the #1 reason I never worked with my father)

I say they build a bridge like they did for Newfieland and scuttle ll the ferries.

[FatHack]

Heat, you make good points if what you said is correct, though I'm unsure about whether they offer shifts as overtime to their full time employees before offering them to the auxillary pool. That seems a little flawed, but if correct is entirely wrong.

[Heatmizer]

That's a long standing clause with almost every union. Seniority 1st when it comes to OT.

My buddy works at a TV station and it's the same thing in their little union - the supervisor has to ask the 5 or 6 senior editors (including calling them at home to offer them the shifts) before she can offer it to the part timers.

Oh ya I also wanted to point out that I have no problems with the guys on the boats being paid OT if the boat is late, breaks down etc (although I do think it should be paid in 15 or 30 minute incremements), but there's a lot of other BC Ferries union staff that never get on a boat, the cashiers, the traffic controllers and however many others there are on land, and they collect OT all the time too, on a very regular basis.

[tashi]

Here's something to think about:

Why would you have to be on call for three years? Because demand for the job is very high, most likely.

Why is demand so high?
Possibly because it's a job that you get an exceptionally good pay rate and benifits for? Possibly pay that is completely out of line with the non-union public sector?

Does anyone know of a non-union job that has the kind of demand that results on being on call for 3 years?

So, you're not really being compensated for 3 years of on-call, the three years of on-call is a most likely a result of the exceptionally high wages.

My question is: what purpose does the union serve here? Would these workers be abused, or have their safety put at risk (a la migrant farm workers, slaughterhouse workers etc) if the union did not exist? If not, than dosen't the union really just introduce a serious inefficancy into the system, one that costs the taxpayer (BC Ferries employees included) milions every year?

[Neo]

Originally posted by brock
Holding the island hostage is probably not the best way to get people to sympathize with you.

i dont feel like a hostage :???:

lol, i think of mainlanders as hostages of the rest of canada and the US ;) :lol:

[brock]

Originally posted by Dante Alighieri
i dont feel like a hostage :???:

lol, i think of mainlanders as hostages of the rest of canada and the US ;) :lol:

You might not.

But I have family who live in Victoria and they do. From what my Sis in law told me last night , they are not alone in their feelings, based on what her co-workers, friends, etc have told her.

[Onegear]

Originally posted by tashi


Does anyone know of a non-union job that has the kind of demand that results on being on call for 3 years?

So, you're not really being compensated for 3 years of on-call, the three years of on-call is a most likely a result of the exceptionally high wages.

My question is: what purpose does the union serve here? Would these workers be abused, or have their safety put at risk (a la migrant farm workers, slaughterhouse workers etc) if the union did not exist? If not, than dosen't the union really just introduce a serious inefficancy into the system, one that costs the taxpayer (BC Ferries employees included) milions every year?

Good final point.
There are laws in place to ensure that all of the wcb standards have been met as well as the qualifications to work on a boat the size of a ferry.

It is true that unions help get those laws passed, but to keep these dinosaurs around, should be worth more than nostalga. but that it all the benifit we get. A look in to the past, at what was done. when there was major heath and safety issues.

But look at a 35hr week, i don't know about you but i work full time and i work 40 hours a week. that 3/hour drop is reaslly a increase of 5 hours a week from 7 to 8 hours in a traditional work day.

I am always on call have been for 2.5 years, as is my G/F and her friends, we never see compensation, but we chose the work that we do and enjoy it,(for tthe most part). If I didn't like the way I was treated I would leave my employer.

That is the benefit of having transferable skills. The people that you see bitching and wining are the people that are overpaid and under qualified for thier job on the ship. If you have the qualifications (ie a onship Mechanic, or Capitan) your wage will still reflect the industry average.

People only get paid for what they think their worth, if someone whose qualified wants to do the same job for 3/hr less why should stop them.

[Neo]

Originally posted by brock
You might not.

But I have family who live in Victoria and they do. From what my Sis in law told me last night , they are not alone in their feelings, based on what her co-workers, friends, etc have told her.

lol, i was kidding actually. i know what you mean in a way. its the lack of regard and the selfishness that seems to be involved. "hostage" seems like a bit of a strong word but using the necessity of travel as a bargaining tool sux.

[brock]

Originally posted by Dante Alighieri
lol, i was kidding actually. i know what you mean in a way. its the lack of regard and the selfishness that seems to be involved. "hostage" seems like a bit of a strong word but using the necessity of travel as a bargaining tool sux.


Yeah I know what you mean.

I was trying my hand at sensationalism. ;)

[Heatmizer]

That's a very good point Onegear, safety and a healthy work environment are the place of unions. Unions work well in private sectors, cause the company makes sure that all it's costs including wages etc are covered in contracts, bids, sales etc.

Public sector unions especially this one, don't work. If the Gov't turned around and said that BC Ferries had to be self sustaining, the fleet would be gone in a month. As it is they charge almost $50 per car one way and they still run a defecit (mostly due to overtime) every year.

So if they start charging $80 per car maybe that'll cut down on the defecit, but then the union wil step in and say well wait a sec, you jacked up the prices for the users, so we deserve a raise (read as piece of the pie) or we'll go on strike. But the reason for the price hike in the 1st place is to offset the fact that the fleet can't break even.

Also, form what I've read and heard, they're not asking for the existing worked to take a pay cut. They are asking for new hires to start at a lower pay scale. I could be wrong on this point, but that is the info I have.

My opinion is either BC Ferries is self sustaining, or the Gov't needs to find another option.

I still like the bridge idea.

[Del]

All I know is that now truckers have blocked people into the tswassin ferry terminal, because they said if they cant get across they wont let anyone go anywhere. This is getting intense. Some of the ferry officers or like i donno what the hell they are called but they are needed to sail the boats have resigned in protest to "the way they have been treated by the government" so if that happens more "the ferrys might not be able to sail for weeks or months"

FUCK

They better sort this shit out... if I cant see my family at christmas Ill go crazy :cry:

[Heatmizer]

http://www.confederationbridge.com/bridge/bridge.aspx?pageid=2&lang=en

I think one of these would solve all our problems.

[Ashek]

Ok, just to settle a few things on page 3.

Depending on which terminal you're at, you're on call for about 6-9 years. The longer you're there, the more likely you are going to get work (due to your seniority in the temp pool).
A temp cant work more than 20 days in a month. Doesnt matter how many hours in those days, it cant be more than 20.
The on-call employee has to be available at work, ready, dressed, within 20-30 minutes of being paged.

So Joe Schmoe with 9 months exp will probably get MAYBE 1 day a month as a ferry worker. The safety courses didnt used to be paid for by the company, but I beleive they are now. (This is the low-end ones, stuff like navigation, meteorology, and pretty much all the stuff for deckhands (not boat cashiers) has to be paid by them).

Whenever a fulltime position opens up, its open to anyone in the fleet. The person with highest seniority in either fulltime or part time (no diff on this one) that applies for it, gets it. Thats why it usually takes temps 6-9 years to get enough seniority to get a fulltime job.

Also, there are BC ferries positions up north. There are people that moved to the charlotte islands and live in trailers JUST to work for BC ferries up there, to work up enough seniority to get a job in a more hospitable environment. I think people that take that kind of sacrifices should get everything they can.

The earlier poster that mentioned price is completely right. As it stands right now, it takes about 5.75 to take the ferry to the sunshine coast, and 8.00 to the island (this is for a footie).

On a private ferry in europe, between england and France (mind you, there are about 80 million people living in england, much higher demand) ther cost to get 1 car across is 100 pounds, that is, ~$220. Right now, a car is what, $35-40?.

Privatization means prices go up, safety goes out the window, and it all turns into mcjobs.

[KOW49]

this is stupid i think allthe buisnesses that are losing money should get repaid from their freaking wages! just because your not happy with your Job

let me remind u of the point that hardly anyone likes their jobs in BC and that everyone is taking cuts or lay offs worse then the ferries! the cuts to the BC ferries IS NOTHING compared to cuts in the forest industry! they should suck it up! then costing the people that have their jobs which they dont like! MONEY! thats ridiculous if i could scruntch this strick thing up i know whos ass i would stuff it up!

[Heatmizer]

Hmm well for starters if a guy that's been with the company for 9 months can only get 1 day of work per month, they have way too many friggin employees.

And again there's the union creating a 2 tiered system "a temp can't work more than 20 days in a month". How about a fulltimer??? As many days as the month has I'll bet.

The union needs to start treating ALL their members equally instead of forcing joe blow to move up north and work in a trailer for 9 years to get full time.

Oh ya, and comparing prices in another country especially England, doesn't cut it. They also pay about $3 per litre of gas, but they're wages reflect it too.

[Del]

Originally posted by Ashek
Ok, just to settle a few things on page 3.

Depending on which terminal you're at, you're on call for about 6-9 years. The longer you're there, the more likely you are going to get work (due to your seniority in the temp pool).
A temp cant work more than 20 days in a month. Doesnt matter how many hours in those days, it cant be more than 20.
The on-call employee has to be available at work, ready, dressed, within 20-30 minutes of being paged.

So Joe Schmoe with 9 months exp will probably get MAYBE 1 day a month as a ferry worker. The safety courses didnt used to be paid for by the company, but I beleive they are now. (This is the low-end ones, stuff like navigation, meteorology, and pretty much all the stuff for deckhands (not boat cashiers) has to be paid by them).

Whenever a fulltime position opens up, its open to anyone in the fleet. The person with highest seniority in either fulltime or part time (no diff on this one) that applies for it, gets it. Thats why it usually takes temps 6-9 years to get enough seniority to get a fulltime job.

Also, there are BC ferries positions up north. There are people that moved to the charlotte islands and live in trailers JUST to work for BC ferries up there, to work up enough seniority to get a job in a more hospitable environment. I think people that take that kind of sacrifices should get everything they can.

The earlier poster that mentioned price is completely right. As it stands right now, it takes about 5.75 to take the ferry to the sunshine coast, and 8.00 to the island (this is for a footie).

On a private ferry in europe, between england and France (mind you, there are about 80 million people living in england, much higher demand) ther cost to get 1 car across is 100 pounds, that is, ~$220. Right now, a car is what, $35-40?.

Privatization means prices go up, safety goes out the window, and it all turns into mcjobs.

i GUESS that gives them the writes to ruin other people lives too hey?

Think again, they are being a bunch of inconsiderate pricks. This is no way to solve anything.

[Bryce]

fuck em, fire them all and rehire them at MARKET wages

[KOW49]

Originally posted by Bryce
fuck em, fire them all and rehire them at MARKET wages

i bet if they fired everyone thats picketing that the postions will be filled within the week :o with people that would be happy with there jobs TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[IFO]

Originally posted by KOW49
i bet if they fired everyone thats picketing that the postions will be filled within the week :o with people that would be happy with there jobs TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

within a week...???

i bet the positions wouldn't last a day....

[Couch_Surfer]

Originally posted by Ashek

Privatization means prices go up, safety goes out the window, and it all turns into mcjobs.

Riiiiiiiight. The private sector can't compete in terms of safety with the unions.

Crock. Of. Shit.

If a private sector company gets negligent with safety, generally they get run out of business due to competition or they get their asses handed to them in court via lawsuit. I'll listen to valid arguments on why unions have their place in society, but don't try and pull the safety card out, that's laughable.

[white ri0t]

Originally posted by IFO
within a week...???

i bet the positions wouldn't last a day....

Fuck, for that amount of money I'd apply. I'm pretty sure I'm qualified enough to reheat waffles and make boil in the bag soups.

[brock]

Originally posted by diggs
Fuck, for that amount of money I'd apply. I'm pretty sure I'm qualified enough to reheat waffles and make boil in the bag soups.

Nope. You're not certified. ;)

[white ri0t]

Maybe they could let me be the guy who puts up the little markers so the chefs know which burger to make and then I could put the fries in the little cup, maybe ladel some soup. That has to be worth $24 an hour.

Or maybe I could be the guy who carves the roast beef on the super ferries buffet, I could bring home leftovers and we could have roast beef sandwiches.

[IFO]

Originally posted by diggs
Maybe they could let me be the guy who puts up the little markers so the chefs know which burger to make and then I could put the fries in the little cup, maybe ladel some soup. That has to be worth $24 an hour.

Or maybe I could be the guy who carves the roast beef on the super ferries buffet, I could bring home leftovers and we could have roast beef sandwiches.

whats truely sad, is thats prolly a pretty accurate statment about what some of the Union Ferry workers are getting paid for doing....

:mad:

[CraigH]

Originally posted by Rat
The Cashiers that work on the port Angeles ferry make $11 an hour and have the same training as the BC ferries cashiers. I doubt they have trouble finding employees who dont need to be compensated for working on a boat.


Was curious what $11US worked out to so:

"Live mid-market rates as of 2003.12.12 02:02:40 GMT.
11.00 USD United States Dollars = 14.4992 CAD Canada Dollars

1 USD = 1.31811 CAD 1 CAD = 0.758663 USD"

From:
http://www.xe.com/ucc/full.shtml

[Couch_Surfer]

Originally posted by IFO
whats truely sad, is thats prolly a pretty accurate statment about what some of the Union Ferry workers are getting paid for doing....

:mad:

....but they do it safely :lol:

[KOW49]

Originally posted by IFO
within a week...???

i bet the positions wouldn't last a day....

yeah i figured that also ! :lol:

[KOW49]

Originally posted by brock
Nope. You're not certified. ;)

:lol: getting a job at bc ferries means you get certified added to your resume! isnt it usuallly the other way around when you have to pay for certification on your resume with years in a college or UNI? :rolleyes:

doesnt make sense that a ferry worker would get paid same amount that someone goes to school and pays lots and lots and lots of money to do alot harder work at the same pay?

[CraigH]

Originally posted by Dante Alighieri
i dont feel like a hostage :???:
lol, i think of mainlanders as hostages of the rest of canada and the US ;) :lol:

The Sunshine Coast, Gulf Island, Queen Charlote Island people are also in the same condition.

According to the news some of the Gulf Island & Sunshine Coast food stores are already running out of food.

[CraigH]

Originally posted by Heatmizer
http://www.confederationbridge.com/bridge/bridge.aspx?pageid=2&lang=en
I think one of these would solve all our problems.

Actually, they had a couple of engineers on the news the other day who said a bridge like that wouldn't work as the depth of water in Georgia Straight is much deeper than the location of the Confederation bridge.

[Del]

Woop
i got a planeride reserved on Harbour Airs!! Suck my teetas BC fairies union whores! The best part is they have no cancellation policy so i can not show up if the ferrys come back!


:D
For 100 bucks i kinda wanna take the plane anyways, it would be damn fun on a nice day, get some cool photos of downtowns skyline.

[white ri0t]

Funny how no one has mentioned the new ferry that leaves out of the seabus terminal. www.harbourlynx.com or something.

[Jaysin]

I loved goin on the ferry this spring, HOWEVER, the ferry strike is fuckin rediculous

[Jaysin]

Originally posted by CraigH
Actually, they had a couple of engineers on the news the other day who said a bridge like that wouldn't work as the depth of water in Georgia Straight is much deeper than the location of the Confederation bridge.

ya my ex's dad lives in Sechelt, and he is one of the head Bridge Engineers around Vancouver, he was saying the same thing, too deep, it would be one hell of a huge bill to put it together

[Heatmizer]

Originally posted by Jaysin
ya my ex's dad lives in Sechelt, and he is one of the head Bridge Engineers around Vancouver, he was saying the same thing, too deep, it would be one hell of a huge bill to put it together

Damn, that's too bad. How big of a bill?? That one cost a cool $1 Billion :eek:

That one is also only 13km long, I have no idea how far it is to Vancouver Island from either ferry terminal.

[Rat]

Originally posted by CraigH
Was curious what $11US worked out to so:

"Live mid-market rates as of 2003.12.12 02:02:40 GMT.
11.00 USD United States Dollars = 14.4992 CAD Canada Dollars

1 USD = 1.31811 CAD 1 CAD = 0.758663 USD"

From:
http://www.xe.com/ucc/full.shtml


Canadian funds equivelent Craig sorry I should have been more specific.

[Jaysin]

Originally posted by Heatmizer
Damn, that's too bad. How big of a bill?? That one cost a cool $1 Billion :eek:

That one is also only 13km long, I have no idea how far it is to Vancouver Island from either ferry terminal.


hahaha he didnt tell me the exact figures, but larry did mention it woulda been alot over a billion

I dont think the Canadian Goverment would be up for it:(

[Rat]

on the bridge

Estimates run at 13 billion if it is even possible. Its not the distance its the depth and the makeup of the seabed.

not to mention it would run over an earthquake fault

[Heatmizer]

Damn :mad:

Well then BC Ferries and the union are gonna have to work out something. The Gov't is determined to stop running money losing operations, and the union wants to keep their huge overtime clause.

As for the rest of their contract, I don't claim to know everything about it, but the way the Liberals have been laying off staff in other departments, the union is going to have come in line and make some concessions.

[bunny]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ashek

Also, there are BC ferries positions up north. There are people that moved to the charlotte islands and live in trailers JUST to work for BC ferries up there, to work up enough seniority to get a job in a more hospitable environment. I think people that take that kind of sacrifices should get everything they can.

Give me a break. If they want to go live in a trailer up north that's their choice... more proof that the pay is way out of line if people are willing to do that.

Paramedics in BC do the same. For far less money than the cashiers on the ferry. It seems pretty sad to me that we are paying someone to shovel fries and slop gravy more than the people saving lives every day. :(

[Neo]

Originally posted by Rat
on the bridge

Estimates run at 13 billion if it is even possible. Its not the distance its the depth and the makeup of the seabed.

not to mention it would run over an earthquake fault

my dad is cheif engineer for BC highways and transportation. i asked him tonight and the technology is there for a safe FLOATING span bridge but it would be at least 10 years before anything were even attempted. also, the environmental impact is enormous.

currently he is overseeing the new highway upgrade in surrey to the US border. lol

[BuckChoklit]

They'a re fucking BUMNS!

[Del]

Originally posted by Dante Alighieri
my dad is cheif engineer for BC highways and transportation. i asked him tonight and the technology is there for a safe FLOATING span bridge but it would be at least 10 years before anything were even attempted. also, the environmental impact is enormous.

currently he is overseeing the new highway upgrade in surrey to the US border. lol

Your dads so cool :love:

Hey Mr Louis (Lewis?) we gotta go biking again after the break.

[Heatmizer]

Ask your dad if we could just tie a rope to the island and drag it closer :D

I seriously wish there was another alternative. This isn't the 1st time they've gone on strike and it' certainly won't be the last.

[Neo]

Originally posted by Del
Your dads so cool :love:

Hey Mr Louis (Lewis?) we gotta go biking again after the break.

lol he is such an XC geek. today he turned 57 and he still totally rips up the climbs. i taught him how to cat walk and now he does it clipped in :eek:

ya you gotta come up island and rip some trails matt.

[FullMonty]

Here's one that blew me away. From BCTV news this evening. The people at the ticket booths get paid between $15-$18 per hour. They sit there and push buttons all day. I don't see what real safety training they would need other than very basic stuff like how to work the fire extinguisher. I work at a gas station for $8.50/hr. I also push buttons every shift, but I'm also sitting on around 75,000 liters of gasoline, with morons coming in constantly and spewing gas vapours and even spilling gasoline all over the place. I'm responsible for every one of these idiots that doesn't know what they're doing. Not to mention I am trained to deal with situations that could cause a catastrophic fire, such as large gasoline spills. I deal with drug addicts, drunks, idiots, people that can't speak a word of english, and belligerent assholes every time I go to work. In addition, I have to literally clean shit up every time I go into work. Jeez, I should be making $30/hr!!

One interesting thing I saw on the news was that the ferry corp wants to make raises dependent on a positive performance review. The union people probably can't even get their head around such a concept. Another thing that the unions just can't seem to understand is that there is a LIMITED AMOUNT OF MONEY TO BE SPENT. No more money = no more pay, or at least you'd think so. Not so in union land - the government can just print some more off! :rolleyes: One thing that I think Heatmizer brought up is that if the fares were to be increased to the point of breaking even, the union would demand a big chunk of that income be given to the employees. I'll guarantee they would, and it just confirms my opinion that they just don't get that you can't run a deficit in the business world. I wanna know what they've been toking/eating, because their fairytale land is pretty nice, what with money being limitless and all.

[Space Ace]

Originally posted by FullMonty

One interesting thing I saw on the news was that the ferry corp wants to make raises dependent on a positive performance review. The union people probably can't even get their head around such a concept. Another thing that the unions just can't seem to understand is that there is a LIMITED AMOUNT OF MONEY TO BE SPENT. No more money = no more pay, or at least you'd think so. Not so in union land - the government can just print some more off! :rolleyes: One thing that I think Heatmizer brought up is that if the fares were to be increased to the point of breaking even, the union would demand a big chunk of that income be given to the employees. I'll guarantee they would, and it just confirms my opinion that they just don't get that you can't run a deficit in the business world. I wanna know what they've been toking/eating, because their fairytale land is pretty nice, what with money being limitless and all.

Werd to that FullMonty...

Also, if the Ferries are an extension of the Highway, why do I need a $20hr cashier on my highway? Why so I need a giftshop on my Highway manned by another $20hr cahier? Ya, Ya, Safety, certification, whatever, but WTF. And as far as extra training goes- IT IS PART OF THE JOB DESCRIPTION! How dare they hang that over our heads and use that as a justification. I'd hope that Doctors stay up to date on medical technologies & techniques cuz they wann, not cuz they have to. Fullmonty, pass the dutchie and I'll see ya in their wacked world!:D

[Bryce]

http://www.bcferries.bc.ca/contact_us/feedback.html

[Ashek]

Yes, I agree, its an extension of the highway systems, and the entire cafeteria / snackbar / gift shop idea isnt there for that reason. Its there to peddle shitty product at captive passengers. Why? not because its 'good' or 'safe'. But because they CAN. If it was part of the highway system, it would be lean, barebones, and paid for by tax dollars. But right now, people that get on expect it to be a freaking cruise. Its not.
Also, dont even start saying that you're affected by ferries, you're pissed off blah blah. Ive been stuck in vancouver since tuesday, and I'm quite fking mad about it. Stop you're bitching and suck it up. When the nurses were on strike, no one gave a shit, now that it affects you, you act all enraged. Have fun getting fucked up in the woods, showing up in the hospital and not being able to be taken care of. This govt is selling the province one piece at a time.

[white ri0t]

^^why not take the harbour lynx ferry if you are stuck here?

[gearwh0re]

no one is stuck. harbour air and harbour lynx have both been running at 100% or more during the illegal strike

[Ashek]

yeah, cept no.
People that live on the Sunshine coast are still screwed, unless I want to pay 100$ each way to get to work and back. Yeah, thanks.

[gearwh0re]

Originally posted by Ashek
yeah, cept no.
People that live on the Sunshine coast are still screwed, unless I want to pay 100$ each way to get to work and back. Yeah, thanks.


oh yeah, you guys are still done (or were anyways, the ferries are back on) that is brutal.

[Onegear]

Originally posted by Couch_Surfer
Riiiiiiiight. The private sector can't compete in terms of safety with the unions.

Crock. Of. Shit.

If a private sector company gets negligent with safety, generally they get run out of business due to competition or they get their asses handed to them in court via lawsuit. I'll listen to valid arguments on why unions have their place in society, but don't try and pull the safety card out, that's laughable.

:werd: Aviation in canada is interesting that there are not many union airlines and yet the planes aren't crashing every day.

It's kind of funny that the only unionized airline in Canada is Air Canada. and no one wants to fly on them unless they have to.
Why?
High prices from fat union contracts, even with the cut backs still a bloated company.
Laziness because a flight attendant don't have to happy and friendly they just have to be there
Interesting side not about 2months ago an Air Canada airbus had an engine catch firE on take off causing it tto dump all of it fuel ofe Van and richmond so it could land.
The reason for all of those problems. A unionized employee forgot to attach a fuel line properly, union safety is bull shiizat.

[Bryce]

Originally posted by Onegear
[BThe reason for all of those problems. A unionized employee forgot to attach a fuel line properly, union safety is bull shiizat. [/B]

:eek: :lol: :lol:

[c2skyrida]

Originally posted by FatHack
Ooooh, that's getting nasty.

There's other ways off the island, let em strike until they get what they want. This is all a case of the gov union bashing. They longer they go without arbitration, the more angst ppl will have about not having a ferry, the less outcry there will be when they tear up contracts and dissolve the union.

Look at it this way, as is, car and driver is ~$40 each way, but the gov't loses a ton of money on the ferries, what is the other realistic option? Privatization? Not really when private industry doesn't want to lose money, that means that fares go up b/c you can't pay a cashier with all of the certs needed to work on a boat minimum wage. That means that in the end we either pay them higher wages or pay some company more through fares.

Personally I'd rather see it go straight to the workers via tax dollars that are already there than have to pay double everytime I cross.

The major routes DO NOT lose money - the corporation loses money due to the subsidization of smaller routes (Gulf Islands etc.). And of course, bloated union wages for unskilled workers (cashiers, ticket sales people - not engineers etc.) drive up operating costs. Their shoudl be two unions - one for the real skilled people so that teh government can raise the wages for the skilled crew (officers/engineers) and fire all cashiers etc. and put out a call for non-union labour!