Seymour Shuttle Service

[Panzer_ace]

I heard there is a shuttle service up Seymour

Is that true? How much is it? Where/When???

Is it on during winter/fall? right now?

[norco_ht_pride]

Chuck Wagon Freeride Tours. $5 to get up. I can get you more info later today if you like.

[Bryce]

Chuckwagon - 834-7375

booyah! weekends only I'd imagine

[EaTDuRRRT]

hmmm, yeah...do they pick you up down by that intersection with the little parking area?

some more info would be great...is it run by a LBS or is it just some guy that hauls you to the top in his rusty ol' pickup truck?

[norco_ht_pride]

I know the guy who ownes Chuckwagon. He is a great guy. It is not owned by a LBS but it also is not just a rusty old pickup. He has got a pimpin' van and trailer to haul you up in. He is shuttleing me and a friend all day tomorrow. It is a great, professional company. I can get you mre info later today.

[Sharon]

According to their agreement with the LSCR, they only have permission to run the shuttles until Nov. 1 2003.

[EaTDuRRRT]

ah nice... yeah, I would really consider it consider you pay like $30 for the bike park and you could get 6 rides down seymour for that price.

I wonder if he does like a day pass or something like that...

[norco_ht_pride]

No day passes as far as I know. Just $5 a run. I'll get more info later.

[NorthShoreofNewYork]

When I went this summer, I just hung around at the stores below, drinking Coke and waiting for somebody with a truck.
Worked great! And there are always trucks headed up......
I knew there had to be SOMEBODY that would catch on though,
and charge money. BTW, I paid for every trip. One had me putting on my helmet....crazy mini-pickup driver, that broke his speedo bottoming out on that trip up!

[Smoke]

Originally posted by EaTDuRRRT
ah nice... yeah, I would really consider it consider you pay like $30 for the bike park and you could get 6 rides down seymour for that price.

I wonder if he does like a day pass or something like that...

6 laps of Seymour.

Top to bottom.

Sounds like a throwdown to me.

I bet that you can't do more than four.

[EaTDuRRRT]

Originally posted by Smoke
6 laps of Seymour.

Top to bottom.

Sounds like a throwdown to me.

I bet that you can't do more than four.


ha, yeah no kidding...I wont argue that

that would be one hell of a day though

[Bryce]

Originally posted by Sharon
According to their agreement with the LSCR, they only have permission to run the shuttles until Nov. 1 2003.

don't say that! I guess I'll have to call Tim to get the scoop. That would be a bummer if they shut down for the winter.

[NooNer]

Originally posted by Bryce
don't say that! I guess I'll have to call Tim to get the scoop. That would be a bummer if they shut down for the winter.

thats reality, what they are doing is borderline legit. nothing against the company, but i will be amazed if their business licence is renewed.

steve

[NS imposter]

Originally posted by NooNer
thats reality, what they are doing is borderline legit. nothing against the company, but i will be amazed if their business licence is renewed.

steve

Borderline legit? The chuckwagon is totally legit, and the guys running it are as entrepreneurial as they come and cool too. They will have no problem getting the business license renewal for next season. The problem they will have to deal with next seaon is the number of new start up shuttles doing the same type of business. I know of two new shuttle services in the works for next year. At 5 bucks a ride (cheap when you consider the cost of fuel, parking, wear and tear on vehicle) I think there is lean times ahead for these services.

[Bryce]

I can see how they'd have problem operating in a park, sure its a public road but if the services are increasing our impact on the trails, then it becomes cloudy. Luckily, the Chuckwagon guys have set a good example by helping out at every trail day. I hope they stick around.

[Keefer]

Originally posted by Bryce
I can see how they'd have problem operating in a park, sure its a public road but if the services are increasing our impact on the trails, then it becomes cloudy. Luckily, the Chuckwagon guys have set a good example by helping out at every trail day. I hope they stick around.

W3rd.
Although I agree, the wear and tear on the trails...

These guys are certainly not making a killing.

[NooNer]

Originally posted by Bryce
I can see how they'd have problem operating in a park, sure its a public road but if the services are increasing our impact on the trails, then it becomes cloudy.

thats prettymuch my point.

[Sharon]

Actually Chuckwagon was running throughout the summer without a BC Parks permit.

Due to the mutli-landowner status of Mt. Seymour, all stakeholders must be consulted if a business starting in one landowners land impacts another.

The LSCR put restrictions on the permit handed out to Chuckwagon by the District.

They restricted them to running from April 15-Nov 15th 2003.

They are to abide by all voluntary and manditory trail closures.

They are required to put in 40 Hours of Trail maintance per year ( driving people up on trail days hasn't quite added up, especially when they shuttle people up before the day is even over!!!).

They are also to submit a report at the end of their term with the number of shuttles they have done and the number of riders they have shuttled.

They still have some time to make these requirments. I'd love to see them put in a few more hours on CBC!

These requirements will be attached to any DNV Permit handed out next year.

[slack]

These guys are really helping out!! The traffic up and down the mountain in down big time. Just think about how much clearner the air is now. These Guys stop a good 30 or 40 car/truck trips up the mountain a day on the weekend.. which also increases safety on the road for people who ride up.

People are going to shuttle any way.. By reducing the amount of traffic these guys may have saved a life... who knows? I've come close to getting hit a few times going up.

[Zedbra]

Thanks again Sharon.

[buddylee]

i heard a rumor that nsmba doesn't want them to get there permit renewed so they can start there own service for next season.....

[norco_ht_pride]

yo well me and my buddy are good friends with tim and his friend runnin the buissness and we talk frequently keepin in touch and they've been tellin me that things are going pretty good for the buisness....makin some good money...and yeah sure it's no like high paying job...but their makin money doing what they like doing best....what more could u ask for...makin money doing a job u love best.

[NS imposter]

Originally posted by buddylee
i heard a rumor that nsmba doesn't want them to get there permit renewed so they can start there own service for next season.....

Bingo!

I just hope that they play on on even playing field with the rest of em. I've also heard that their (nsmba) shuttle service will be subsidized. And although I think most of the proceeds from nsmba shuttle service would go to trail maintenance, I would hate to see others pushed out of the business only cause they can't compete with a subsidized service.

Personally I like the shuttle idea if some of the money could be funnelled back into the trails. Get rid of the parking lots and force users to use the shuttle service. any shuttle service would have to contribute a percentage of their revenue to trail building activities. this way all users contribute to trail building if they use the trails even if they don't contribute via trail days.

[Jamie]

Originally posted by Sharon
Actually Chuckwagon was running throughout the summer without a BC Parks permit.

Due to the mutli-landowner status of Mt. Seymour, all stakeholders must be consulted if a business starting in one landowners land impacts another.

The LSCR put restrictions on the permit handed out to Chuckwagon by the District.

They restricted them to running from April 15-Nov 15th 2003.

They are to abide by all voluntary and manditory trail closures.

They are required to put in 40 Hours of Trail maintance per year ( driving people up on trail days hasn't quite added up, especially when they shuttle people up before the day is even over!!!).

They are also to submit a report at the end of their term with the number of shuttles they have done and the number of riders they have shuttled.

They still have some time to make these requirments. I'd love to see them put in a few more hours on CBC!

These requirements will be attached to any DNV Permit handed out next year.


Maybe it's just me, but it seems from several of your posts, that you are not too keen on the old ChuckWagon service. Staunch critic I suppose. I don't think you should belittle the transport of people to and from trail days. It has helped with the # of volunteers,as well as equipment on these particular days. enabling the vast progress on a couple of the more popular trails on Seymour - CBC, Corkscrew,Pingu. Empress reroute isn't part of it, as it is adjacent to the parking lot, or should I say Street, as the parking lot isn't really used by too many. And quite a few of the trail days were geared toward the construction of this trail. Thus making it more difficult for Chuckwagon to have as much of an impact. I suppose if the individual operator was to physically
involve himself in the trail days it would make you happier, but as trail days are on weekends, and he only really operated on weekends,it would take away essential business operating hours.
I don't think I have to expand on this point, I am sure you understand the impact of this.
I know my next point is probably going to piss off several individuals, but perhaps more trail days could have been geared toward runs higher up on the mountain. I don't question the hard work, and fine work of the Empress reroute. It is solid work, the bridge is great... . However I question the amount of time spent on a trail that is geared for biking and hiking, burmed corners to help the bikers keep their speed up.Why would this be done!
Wouldn't the whole point of a dual purpose trail be to keep the speed Down. It isn't Mom and Dad hiker that is going to be a potential issue, it's little Suzie, or Johnny that are out of Daddies reach. I know the NSMBA is proud of this trail, and they should be, I just think perhaps the Trails elsewhere could have benefitted from the amount of work spent on a trail that wasn't necessarily key to biking on Seymour- perhaps it was a politically correct project, I don't know. If the trail days were spent on trails further up the mountainChuckwagon could have helped out more.
Oh by the way, I am in noway involved in Chuckwagon, not that Jamie, just someone who appreciates the service

[Sharon]

The Empress reroute was a little bit more complicated then just a new trail... But I won't confuse you with those details.

The NSMBA has had more trail days on CBC then on any other trail period.

We have people who will not come to CBC trail days since they do not want to work on a trail that caters to shuttlers.

Jeremy, the person responsible for 90% of the work done on CBC has made ZERO dollars from this trail.

Jamie, the lead chuckwagon operator, has mentioned on numerous occations that CBC is his ' bread and butter'

We would have no issues with Chuckwagon if they actually did contribute back to the trails, not to the parking or driving congestion. By contribute I mean do actual manual labour on the trails.

When we met them at the beginning of this year, they made it clear to us, under no uncertain terms, that they did not have the time or money to contribute back to the trails. Their nominal contribution, while appreciated, does not make up for 1% of the work (read Manual Labour ) that Jeremy has put into this trail.

Sure they're nice guys. But so is Jeremy. Where would CBC, Chuckwagon's Bread and Butter, be without him.

Sorry if the truth hurts.

Originally posted by Jamie
Maybe it's just me, but it seems from several of your posts, that you are not too keen on the old ChuckWagon service. Staunch critic I suppose. I don't think you should belittle the transport of people to and from trail days. It has helped with the # of volunteers,as well as equipment on these particular days. enabling the vast progress on a couple of the more popular trails on Seymour - CBC, Corkscrew,Pingu. Empress reroute isn't part of it, as it is adjacent to the parking lot, or should I say Street, as the parking lot isn't really used by too many. And quite a few of the trail days were geared toward the construction of this trail. Thus making it more difficult for Chuckwagon to have as much of an impact. I suppose if the individual operator was to physically
involve himself in the trail days it would make you happier, but as trail days are on weekends, and he only really operated on weekends,it would take away essential business operating hours.
I don't think I have to expand on this point, I am sure you understand the impact of this.
I know my next point is probably going to piss off several individuals, but perhaps more trail days could have been geared toward runs higher up on the mountain. I don't question the hard work, and fine work of the Empress reroute. It is solid work, the bridge is great... . However I question the amount of time spent on a trail that is geared for biking and hiking, burmed corners to help the bikers keep their speed up.Why would this be done!
Wouldn't the whole point of a dual purpose trail be to keep the speed Down. It isn't Mom and Dad hiker that is going to be a potential issue, it's little Suzie, or Johnny that are out of Daddies reach. I know the NSMBA is proud of this trail, and they should be, I just think perhaps the Trails elsewhere could have benefitted from the amount of work spent on a trail that wasn't necessarily key to biking on Seymour- perhaps it was a politically correct project, I don't know. If the trail days were spent on trails further up the mountainChuckwagon could have helped out more.
Oh by the way, I am in noway involved in Chuckwagon, not that Jamie, just someone who appreciates the service

[EaTDuRRRT]

I dont know how to follow up the previous post :???: but I'll try

But it seems to me that there is some conflicting views with the shuttle service. I think it is great that we have a service like this and we shouldn't screw it over by putting trail day quotas on it.

In an ideal world, everyone would be able to contribute to trail days, but the reality is that not everyone can.

Criticizing the Chuckwagon is unfair IMO because they contribute a lot to the biking community and are one of the best positive examples of the mtb community. Their role during trail days is to shuttle the people up the mountain and it isn't necessarily right to compare them to the manual labor that people do.

I'm all for the chuckwagon service and hope that it's still around for future riding next year.

[Sharon]

Originally posted by EaTDuRRRT

Criticizing the Chuckwagon is unfair IMO because they contribute a lot to the biking community and are one of the best positive examples of the mtb community. Their role during trail days is to shuttle the people up the mountain and it isn't necessarily right to compare them to the manual labor that people do.


The LSCR who owns the land CBC, Corkscrew, Neds is on has imposed the requirment that any shuttle service must do 40 hours of trail maintenance to run the service on their land.

[Jamie]

originally posted by Sharon:

Where would CBC, Chuckwagon's Bread and Butter, be without him.

Sorry if the truth hurts.

where would any of us be without Jeremy(responsible for 90% or more) of the work on CBC. For that matter JerryRig on Fromme, or Putty on Pangor............... . Sorry to any of those INDIVIDUALS!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT have put so much of their INDIVIDUAL time into transforming the trails.(Idon't know everyones name)But I wish I did Thank You to you ALL.
The trails have been transformed and maintained, and as much as the trail days have helped, I really think that the majority of the praise goes to those individuals.
You I am sure know the names of these individuals better than I.
I am a little surprised that the gear and volunteers shuttled up by Chuckwagon on the trail days is responsible for only 1% of the work NSMBA has done on Seymour. I suppose they shuttled up the lazy members, unlucky for them.
As far as members not coming out to trail days on CBC as it is a trail that caters to shuttlers, News Flash! MT seymour is a network of trails that caters to both shuttlers, and the "non shuttlers". The mountain has a paved road up, with several parking lots at various levels of the mountain. Those boycotting members are foolish. Sorry if the truth hurts, but by their logic
none of the trails should be worked on . Even us impure ,Chuckwagon using , non climbing, fat,full face wearing,dually riding punks ride the Empress reroute, or Pangor, or Cbuster or severed dick,or .... You know the trail names.
Perhaps Tim, and Jamie feel CBC is their bread and butter, but that trail is only part of the ride down. The service itself is what
I appreciate- I don't have to organize 2 vehicles for shuttle, no parking fee, wear and tear on personal vehicle, break ins ....
At the same time I meet plenty of members of the riding community. And I am sure that Chuckwagon doesn't make a killing, but the volume of patrons they had this summer should be evidence enough that the riding community wants this service.
Perhaps this is why the rumours of a NSMBA shuttle service are out there. If so, I guess there would be something to thank Chuckwagon for.

[LeeLau]

In retrospect what Chuckwagon has shown is that there is a demand for shuttle service on Seymour.

The question seems to be how great the demand is for the shuttle service; basically boiling down to how much can one charge?

If there are alternate shuttle services; speaking as a capitalist, I would say that is a good thing. The competition would affect prices; probably driving down prices.

Given that I already see $ 5 a ride as being uneconomical for anything but a basic subsistence wage, it would be interesting to see how low prices can go; but this is just an aside.

I predict that there will be more than 1 shuttle service operating on Seymour next year.

I am not surprised that most people think that there is no conceptual problem with a paid shuttle service presumably operating for profit not helping out with trail maintenance. My experience with trail building and maintenance has shown that many riders think of the economic good that is a trail to be of zero - cost to them.

Simply put, most riders think of the trails as some magical construct put into the forest by trail fairies who labor away like robotic entities putting in ladders and bridges and drops and trannies for the good of all; for personal satisfaction and a pet on the head.

Sure, riders are thankful for the service of volunteers. However this thanks can translate into many things; some riders become trail builders or work on trails, some riders come out to trails, some riders go to the pub after and talk about the bitching time they had and think fleetingly of Digger and think that one day, oh one day they will get around to buying a copy of NSX.

So when riders are actually confronted with the idea that their use of the trail may tax the trail builders or volunteers in the sense of creating wear and tear on the trail, I can see why many riders don't have a problem with this. Many people don't have a problem with using a resource created and donated for free but not putting anything back in. If riders don't see using and never giving back as a problem; why then should the shuttle service operator?

This is not a negative comment, it is an observation. In any large societal unit, it is very common for a body of people to parasitically derive benefit from the labors of the few. This is called the "free-rider effect". The irony of the term should not be lost.

I can see the logic of that view; some might call it selfishness. But really, why put back into the trail if you don't have to? After all, someone else will take care of that rut, correct?

[EaTDuRRRT]

Originally posted by Sharon
The LSCR who owns the land CBC, Corkscrew, Neds is on has imposed the requirment that any shuttle service must do 40 hours of trail maintenance to run the service on their land.

ahh! that make sense... thx for the info

[Heatmizer]

My only problem with ChuckWagon is that they seem to only be reactive, not interactive.

(Please note that this is what I remember from previous posts a loooong time ago when they were starting up, so my apologies if the facts are vague or if anyone is mis-represented)

When they 1st started operating they were told CBC was closed, there were the usual wet weather signs in place etc, and they basically didn't care. If that's where people wanted to go, that's where they took them.
From what I remember once NSMBA and the Parks Board got involved and on their case, they agreed to respect trail closures.

That said, there have been spattered posts on the board about them still shuttling CBC during/after heavy rains.

Yes, they're not the only one that use CBC when they shouldn't, but they're the only ones making money off it when it's supposed to be closed.

Simply put - they put their pockets before the trail. Admittedly they're in it to make money, but at what cost?

if Jeremy decides one day that traffic on CBC has gone up way too much - too many riders on it when it should be closed, too much erosion etc - and the trail is no longer maintainable, he may just walk away from CBC. Anyone here willing to take up the slack and put in hundreds of free hours so some other guys can make money off your sweat, hard work and volunteered time?

If CBC is their bread & butter, then they should be in constant contact with Jeremy or NSMBA asking what is needed (besides time since that doesn't seem to be something they're willing to contribute) to maintain the trail. They should buy/supply tools and building materials etc.

CW does supply a good service in that they reduce air polution by eliminating the @ of cars going up. As Lee stated, they can't really lower their prices as they need to make a profit or it's not a business.

My suggestion is they raise their prices a buck or 2 (for example), and label it as an evironmental fee that should go directly towards the trails. I don't know exactly how many people they shuttle per year, so I can't say how much extra they could generate.

Unfortunately I don't know the politics, so I can't say where that money should go to make sure it gets put back in to the trail network best - NSMBA, Seymour Mtn, Jeremy goes to Hawaii fund (just kidding :D ) etc.

For anyone that wanted to whine about the extra cost the response is simple - the trails need to be maintained, and that takes resources.

Just my 2 cents

[Jamie]

Originally posted by LeeLau
In retrospect what Chuckwagon has shown is that there is a demand for shuttle service on Seymour.

The question seems to be how great the demand is for the shuttle service; basically boiling down to how much can one charge?

If there are alternate shuttle services; speaking as a capitalist, I would say that is a good thing. The competition would affect prices; probably driving down prices.

Given that I already see $ 5 a ride as being uneconomical for anything but a basic subsistence wage, it would be interesting to see how low prices can go; but this is just an aside.

I predict that there will be more than 1 shuttle service operating on Seymour next year.

I am not surprised that most people think that there is no conceptual problem with a paid shuttle service presumably operating for profit not helping out with trail maintenance. My experience with trail building and maintenance has shown that many riders think of the economic good that is a trail to be of zero - cost to them.

Simply put, most riders think of the trails as some magical construct put into the forest by trail fairies who labor away like robotic entities putting in ladders and bridges and drops and trannies for the good of all; for personal satisfaction and a pet on the head.

Sure, riders are thankful for the service of volunteers. However this thanks can translate into many things; some riders become trail builders or work on trails, some riders come out to trails, some riders go to the pub after and talk about the bitching time they had and think fleetingly of Digger and think that one day, oh one day they will get around to buying a copy of NSX.

So when riders are actually confronted with the idea that their use of the trail may tax the trail builders or volunteers in the sense of creating wear and tear on the trail, I can see why many riders don't have a problem with this. Many people don't have a problem with using a resource created and donated for free but not putting anything back in. If riders don't see using and never giving back as a problem; why then should the shuttle service operator?

This is not a negative comment, it is an observation. In any large societal unit, it is very common for a body of people to parasitically derive benefit from the labors of the few. This is called the "free-rider effect". The irony of the term should not be lost.

I can see the logic of that view; some might call it selfishness. But really, why put back into the trail if you don't have to? After all, someone else will take care of that rut, correct?

huh ? LOL thanks ? If a monkey bit you, what kinda medication would they give you ?

[LeeLau]

Originally posted by Jamie
huh ? LOL thanks ? If a monkey bit you, what kinda medication would they give you ?

If the sky was blue what river would you cross - Confucious

Pardon? Should I have typed slower? I'm trying to figure out which part you didn't understand

[Jamie]

Check out the big brain on LeeLau! I understood your rhetoric,
just kinda sounded like an sociology essay from SOC 101.
I don't think the average rider thinks some trail fairy is responsible for the maintenance and construction of stunts and trails on Seymour, very often you can see the same INDIVIDUALS responsible for these much appreciated labours of love, on any given day. And on a few weekends of the peak season you can see the volunteers hard at work on the top of CBC, or top of Pingu, or on several weekends you could hear the hard work on the Empress reroute. Perhaps not enough people volunteer to help, I am sure it was the same people on those weekends that
helped out, except ofcourse when it was on CBC as it caters to Shuttlers.But I don't see how that has anything to do with the
Chuckwagon shuttle service. They as individuals are not responsible for your Sociology Thesis. They operated pretty much
2 days a week, your trail days were always on 1 of them, and yet they shuttled people up, and gear, and then continued to generate income to survive. Sure they didn't take over the trail maintenance days, as I am sure they were not as skilled as the
organizers(nsmba)are. Their business was a part time thing, they both have day jobs. I think they did enough considering everything.

As far as multiple shuttle services next year, I guess we will see,
I can't see prices going down from $5, anything lower would require a subsidy of some sort, and then you have other issues.

[Zedbra]

How about adding in a few cents from some others.

The trails are seeing record number of riders, and many on Seymour are turning into a ditch with ladders rather than a trail that they used to be.

Jamie, I can see you are hell bent on defending a shuttling service, and CW in particular. I was heading up with a group of guys once to do trail work, asked if we could catch a ride with Chuckwagon (hearing how they can donate rides, not time), and our answer was "If you got 5 bucks". There were only 4 riders going up, too. The only thing they give to the trails is MORE erosion.

I don't think that ANY shuttling service should be offered. I don't wanna hear about less gas/pollution etc. You city slickers sitting in rush hour lined up like slave ants as a few cars spin by in the HOV lane don't give two shits about saving anything but time, so CW doesn't give two hoots about anything but the bottom line - cash.

The trails cannot handle the amount of riders it is seeing now, and if there was not a shuttle service in place, then it would mean that there would be much less traffic as people nowadays refuse to climb up. The cedar rungs on CBC have grooves in them from so much traffic! And Jeremy was telling me the rungs are only 2 years old! Same freaking grooves the CW is putting into the cement going up the pavement. Alas, they shouldn't have to pay, right?

IF a shuttling service must be operated, then it's my opinion that NSMBA and the parks should be directly subsidized. And IF NSMBA puts together a shuttle service, I would fully endorse that service over Chuckwagon and their greedy, narrow minded ways.

Summize:
Circleslash ANY shuttle service, especially whorish capitalist companies.
If a shuttling service must be offered, then they should comply with ALL the park's requests. This is why NSMBA should hop on this IF it is needed at all.

Circleslash Chuckwagon

[LeeLau]

If you understood why the need for sarcasm?

CW brings more riders to the trails.

More riders to the trails - more erosion.

More erosion - more work on trail to maintain it

However, self-interest means that riders and CW have no logical reason to work on the trail as someone else is already working on the trail, for free.



Originally posted by Jamie
Check out the big brain on LeeLau! I understood your rhetoric,
just kinda sounded like an sociology essay from SOC 101.
I don't think the average rider thinks some trail fairy is responsible for the maintenance and construction of stunts and trails on Seymour, very often you can see the same INDIVIDUALS responsible for these much appreciated labours of love, on any given day. And on a few weekends of the peak season you can see the volunteers hard at work on the top of CBC, or top of Pingu, or on several weekends you could hear the hard work on the Empress reroute. Perhaps not enough people volunteer to help, I am sure it was the same people on those weekends that
helped out, except ofcourse when it was on CBC as it caters to Shuttlers.But I don't see how that has anything to do with the
Chuckwagon shuttle service. They as individuals are not responsible for your Sociology Thesis. They operated pretty much
2 days a week, your trail days were always on 1 of them, and yet they shuttled people up, and gear, and then continued to generate income to survive. Sure they didn't take over the trail maintenance days, as I am sure they were not as skilled as the
organizers(nsmba)are. Their business was a part time thing, they both have day jobs. I think they did enough considering everything.

As far as multiple shuttle services next year, I guess we will see,
I can't see prices going down from $5, anything lower would require a subsidy of some sort, and then you have other issues.

[LeeLau]

For CW. I respect them for the fact that they are trying out a new business. Its tough to launch a new business and break new ground

I also respect the fact they do nut shuttle people up to CBC on rainy days.

However, they're going to have competition next year and their already-thin margins are going to get hammered. How this will turn out will be an interesting study.

[Rat]

The pathetic part to this is if CW just buffed up a small section of trail people would probably lay off them.

[Jamie]

Hey Zed, I don't suppose you have ever shuttled up to 19th or power smart, I lived in Squamish for many years, know quite a few of the riding community there, and have seen the transformation of all the trails, but thought the 2 forementioned trails were perfect examples for you. I know what you are going point out , it is the City Slickers coming down to your neck of the woods, and ruining it for every local there. News for you, I have
been riding the trails there for a long time, and have been part of the time honored shuttle bitch trend within the local community.
I have seen the transformation of said trails from loamy flowing trails, to rock, ruts, and shit, to the point where detour trails such as Peanuts ... have been built . If you are wondering what my point is, don't go spouting off about shuttling and the effects it has on trails, if you are also part of the issue.

The reality is that mtb is growing huge. It isn't just about the purest cyclist anymore. It is big business, even for you small town
hicks, look at the growth of the bike shops in your community, Tantalus and Corsa are bigger than ever, and if you ask Al or Dave what their thoughts might be on that one, I'm pretty sure you would get a thumbs up. This is why there is an increase in
biking traffic, and wear and tear on the trail systems.Not because a small part time shuttle service has started up on Mt. Seymour, if the Shuttle service wasn't there, I , and the other users would still be using the trails. Should more people take it upon themselves to get involved in building, and maintenance.Absolutely!!!! But that isn't Chuck Wagon's fault, nor would it be any other individual shuttle operators fault, if the earnings were at such a point that anything remotely close to profit were made, perhaps more could be done- equipment... .
But lets face it these guys can't be making much if anything.


Quote from Zed:
Jamie, I can see you are hell bent on defending a shuttling service, and CW in particular. I was heading up with a group of guys once to do trail work, asked if we could catch a ride with Chuckwagon (hearing how they can donate rides, not time), and our answer was "If you got 5 bucks". There were only 4 riders going up, too. The only thing they give to the trails is MORE erosion

PERHAPS YOU DIDN'T USE ENOUGH OF YOUR SMALL TOWN CHARM.


I hope the sarcasm earlier didn't upset you too much Lee, I guess it is as much of my style, as literary presentations are for you.

Cheers Boys & Girls !
I'm done, gotta go line up in traffic.

[EaTDuRRRT]

wow this is a great thread :D

[LeeLau]

Originally posted by Jamie

I hope the sarcasm earlier didn't upset you too much Lee, I guess it is as much of my style, as literary presentations are for you.

Cheers Boys & Girls !
I'm done, gotta go line up in traffic. [/B]

No it didn't upset me. It surprised me a little.

That's a good point you make. Does CW or a paid shuttle service actually increase traffic on trails? If it does - how much?

That was a rather long-winded post I made. I'm actually surprised anyone read it. Sometimes I like to type things out to crystallize thoughts in my head I guess.

[Zedbra]

Originally posted by Jamie
PERHAPS YOU DIDN'T USE ENOUGH OF YOUR SMALL TOWN CHARM.

Like yours?

Don't lash out on me cuz you made yourself look like a jerk.

Edit - And Dave and Al from Corsa and Tantalus respectfully donate ALOT of time AND MONEY into trailbuilding.

[Lady Gravity]

Originally posted by Rat
The pathetic part to this is if CW just buffed up a small section of trail people would probably lay off them.

:werd:

[Jamie]

Originally posted by Zedbra
Like yours?

Don't lash out on me cuz you made yourself look like a jerk.

Edit - And Dave and Al from Corsa and Tantalus respectfully donate ALOT of time AND MONEY into trailbuilding.

Ha ha ,sorry to hurt your feelings.
I didn't think I came across as a jerk, perhaps a sarcastic ASS, but again sorry!!! (you didn't exactly come across as Prince Fucking Charming welcoming the big city folk..., but anyway, that shit is boring so I'll leave it at that.)

as far as your point regarding Al and Dave, I think you missed my point, my point was in regards to the increasing numbers of cyclists, and the types of riders (non purists) ... . More bigger bikes, shuttle type rides even in your community. And how they feel about the increase, not about how much return they put into the biking scene. It certainly doesn't stop at trail work though, youth programs, coaching , sponsorship, events, guiding........................ .
Anyway the fucking horse is dead! So I'm going to stop flogging it. Have a lovely day.