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endorphin
08-27-2003, 11:46 PM
someone asked about this being reposted, and since I am running it and have played around with it I figure I am qualified. Not my idea. Got the idea here before the database got 'trimmed'.

edit: original author was JSinclair. See his article below.

Total cost is about $10 per wheel.
Required material: 20" (or 24"??) tube, a bottle of Slime or Camel (Walmart, about $7 for 16oz) tire sealant

1)You first take a 20" bmx tube. Cut all the way around the tube on the outermost line, away from the valvestem. You should end up with a flat circle of rubber with a valvestem on it.

2)Preferably remove any rubber rimstrips and use the reinforced tape on rimstrip, as it is less bulky, but it will work with the rubber strips too.

3)Place the band around your rim, put the valvestem through the hole. Let the extra rubber from the tube hang over the sides of the rim

4)Put your tire on, being careful not to make holes in the tube, although holes up at the edge of the rim really don't matter much.

5)With a compressor (gas station if you don't have at home) inflate your tire. It may require squashing the tire this way and that, but usually goes eventually.

6) Once the bead seats, the tire/tube will be jammed together, so let the air out, take out your valvestem with the tool that comes with the sealant. Put about 4 ounces (big tires seem to like more, as do older crappier tires, maybe up to 8 ounces) into the tire. Put the valvestem back in.

7) Inflate your tire to 25psi or so, now go for a ride (after reading 8 ), at least around the block a couple of times so the sealant gets everywhere inside and blocks any leaking.

8 ) If your happy, take a pair of scissors, opened just a bit, and slide along to trim the rubber hanging over the rim. Uh, if your using rim brakes you better do this before riding!

9) Your done. Feel free to lower pressure. The more you ride the first day the better it seems to seal.


Notes:

Do not use instant inflation/emergency tire inflator cans like the ones at Canadian Tire. The material they use to patch the leak hardens in less than a day and won't find little bead leaks. You MUST use a long term sealant such as Slime or Camel Tire Sealant. Added benefit is flat resistant to glass/thorns/nails for up to 2 years.

IF you can find it, Slime comes in 'tube' which is supposed to seal up to 1/8" holes, and 'tubeless' which is supposed to seal up to 1/4" holes. More fiber stuff in 'tubeless' compound. Also, Slime says its base is food grade, no enviro guilt.

I have Slime in front, Camel in back. Both seem to do fine.

You can dump the sealant in before putting the last bit of tire on, a little quicker

I have run as low as 5 psi in a 2.65 Kujo on the front without it coming off, but 5psi is getting a little squirmy. I have hit the rim at that pressure without flatting.

If you really like this system, run a bead of silicone on the rim corners before the tube, then it stays in place when you change tires.

Could also use spray adhesive on the rim, then put the tube on. Depending on strength of glue could be just right or getting too permanant come time to change nipples.

Even if you don't glue the tube you can still reuse it when you change tires

Use a hose to wash the sealant off if you need to.

The reason the tube is smaller than 26" is just so it stays tight on the rim like a rim strip does.




Millstone
08-28-2003, 12:00 AM
what rims are you using?

endorphin
08-28-2003, 12:15 AM
Double Wides

JSinclair
08-28-2003, 12:53 AM
here is my original article with pictures and all.

http://www.steedcycles.com/newsletter/tubeless.htm

let us know how it works.

With non UST tire (ie . Maxxis) you'll have ot use slime or a good sealant...best on the market is stans sealant.

www.notubes.com

good luck

lockemiester
08-28-2003, 10:59 AM
I tried that and couldn't get the Slime to really seal the sidewall of my mobster. Then I had a hard time getting the bead to seat on my doublewide, so I used more and more air. Soon enough, BAMMM!!! Blew out the sidewall and covered myself and my garage with a nice coating of slime!! I might try it again some day. Would you suggest using a 16" tube for 24"wheels?

Millstone
08-28-2003, 11:32 AM
So this would work with Doubletracks?

This is possible with any tire? or would i be better off using something like michelins?

Curtis
08-28-2003, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by lockemiester
I tried that and couldn't get the Slime to really seal the sidewall of my mobster. Then I had a hard time getting the bead to seat on my doublewide, so I used more and more air. Soon enough, BAMMM!!! Blew out the sidewall and covered myself and my garage with a nice coating of slime!! I might try it again some day. Would you suggest using a 16" tube for 24"wheels?

bahahahaha, sorry to laugh but that is some funny F'in Shite man.

JSinclair: Sounds like it would work, I'm going to give it a try myself will post when done.

endorphin
08-28-2003, 09:59 PM
Regarding getting bead to seat: Once you actually get the tire to fill with air and the bead snap into place, if it is still leaking then get the sealant in if it isn't already, and spin the tire around. Took me a while to get a lasting seal when I was first trying. If it seems hopeless try adding more sealant before giving up. The first tire I got to work with the system was an old High Roller. At first it even had sealant oozing from the sidewalls, but it did seal after a while. I think I had about 10 oz of sealant in it.
Now, funny about blowing it off the rim. I was down in vancouver, was at a gas station and thought the tire felt a little soft, so pumped it up a bit, then a bit more. Was thinking that since it felt soft it must have been leaking, and since we were going to Whistler the next day, didn't want a low tire, could always let some out in the morning, right? Did I mention I had been drinking? Anyway, it finally felt hard enough. About 1/2 a block away it blew off the rim, wrecked the bead on the tire too. I don't blame the tubeless system, but I do think it gives the sensation that the tire is softer than it is since one less layer of rubber. That of course is one of the reasons for using the system since the tire flexes better and conforms to logs, roots, etc to stick better.

Also, it seems that since the sealant reduces the air volume of the tire, it doesn't take as much air as you expect it will to make a given change in pressure. Be warned.

endorphin
08-28-2003, 10:02 PM
Don't exceed the maximum pressure on the tire sidewall, even when seating.:thepimp:

Faithless
08-28-2003, 10:48 PM
i remeber seeing this procedure in mountain bike magazine./

JSinclair
08-29-2003, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by MajinHurricane
i remeber seeing this procedure in mountain bike magazine./

You are not thinking about the stans no tubes system ? if so the no tubes system is awesome but will cost you $100 cdn.

LIPS
12-05-2004, 10:58 PM
I bought the stans kit with rimstrips and sealant $62 US. And it's worked great for the past three months. But the rim strips are way over priced. Tonight I went out and bought two 20" tubes for my new Kona Stinky and I'm gonna convert them tomorrow using Stan's sealant. Stans rimstrips offer no advantage over a smaller innertube sliced down the middle. The tires I converted first where WTB Timberwolfs, the tires I'm gonna convert tomorrow are Nokians. I'll keep you posted.

Fruit
12-06-2004, 11:50 AM
Ive used this for the last two years riding dh and street on my hardtail. So far I have had 1 puncture where I ripped my sidewall, much better than my old 3 a week on nokian dh tubes!

I have learnt:

1 Slime is rubbish, use liquid latex ala stans
2 It is much easier to bead your tyre if you run impact adhesive down the bead after the tyre is mounted. just pump up and it stays up. when you let it down to fill with sealant there are no leaks as the tube is attached to the tyre.
3 most tyres work if you stick the bead, maxxis, michi hot S, tioga factory, panaracer, specalized
4 latex mixed half and half with water will stop your tyres from going flat after a week.

This is awesome, but i reccomend the glue trick to save hours of effort :)

fruit

bighitbikerNS
12-06-2004, 09:19 PM
there is something like that in one of my old MBaction mags. but they used some tubeless conversion thing i think thta cost like 10 bucks US. i'd rather use a tube though, easier to deal with if you get a flat.

Wayne P
12-06-2004, 10:57 PM
What I found personally with running either the Stan's kit or just a UST rim is that you don't always need the sealant to make it work. The soapy sidewalls and a powerful compressor is most important. I ran out of sealant last year and put my tubeless tire on anyways - lasted for about 10 months before I took it off.

I wouldn't reccomend it though, because it's good to have a backup.

DaveM
12-07-2004, 01:30 PM
I tried for 2 hours to get a Michelin 2.8 on a Doubletrack without damaging the modified 20" tube before giving up. Soap didn't help, it just made it slimier to work with. More trouble than it was worth in my books.

Wayne P
12-07-2004, 01:48 PM
The 2.8 is harder to put on, unless it's pretty new. Your rim has to be very round as well to make it seat better. Sometimes it just won't happen. Ever consider removing the valve stem then inflating it? My bro has done this when he couldn't get a tire to seat, and it worked.

LIPS
12-07-2004, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by LIPS
I bought the stans kit with rimstrips and sealant $62 US. And it's worked great for the past three months. But the rim strips are way over priced. Tonight I went out and bought two 20" tubes for my new Kona Stinky and I'm gonna convert them tomorrow using Stan's sealant. Stans rimstrips offer no advantage over a smaller innertube sliced down the middle. The tires I converted first where WTB Timberwolfs, the tires I'm gonna convert tomorrow are Nokians. I'll keep you posted. I completed the conversion last night using $4 Bell 20" innertubes. I gave it 24 hrs to make sure there were no problems. Preasure held fine. Much cheeper than Stan's rim strips. Cant beat Stans latex:D

cHuck
12-07-2004, 10:42 PM
where to get econo latex, as apposed to stans ?????? any one know

jeremyb
12-08-2004, 01:52 AM
Go to a carpet place and get latex carpet glue, it's heaps cheaper than modelling latex and you can dilute it more than 50:50, I've been doing ghetto tubeless for more than a year now with no punctures!!