Neds Idea and Suggestions? (john and switch)

[bullit_kid]

Message: I have been noticing and it has come to attention on this board that a lot of you like to have a roll dowqn option off a drop also? I saw a couple people on saturday who did the entire log ride to the drop but then stopped and jumped off because they didnt want to drop it. I was thinking A. Putting a Schleyer style ramp down it, so people can huck it or roll it or B. Making an optional down ramp off to the side of the drop. What are your thoughts on this? I would also like some suggestiosn to areas of conern that either need to be maintained or fixed. I know of the ladder up top that's missing rungs and I will be up there soon. I also found out how to fix the creek problem on neds, And as soon as the down ramp is finished I will make my way up there and the trail will become a lot dryer. If your up there before next weekend please post and tell me about the section before the redone ladders and drop of the log ride. Is it dry? I fixed the drainage for the 2 corners before the section so it should still be dry there.
Any suggestions as to places ot maintain or fix up are welcome, I haven't alked up the entire trail to see it all.

from John

[Taylor_P]

B: optional route down(leave the drop, just put a down ramp or sumthing off to the side just before it.)

[KenN]

I'd say put in the optional tongue drop. Also, might be a good idea to work on that transition landing off the drop. It's pretty short!

I think the spot that needs work the most is the huge rut just before that section. I just gets deeper every year! Maybe the only thing to do is one big Roman road style rocked in section.

Kn.

[Sharon]

Yes, the rut before the ladder section is definately in need of some filling. Its getting worse everytime I go down there.

Not surprising considering the nature of that soil, seems to be more clay.

The top park needs drainage. Either Dean - Crinkem style, or the flaps. If you put in the flaps, you should write on the uphill side "RIDE ME" people tend to ride around these flaps if given the opportunity. I can talk to Jeremy about getting some of those.

Good work on the new slats on the log ride!

A slayer ramp would be cool off that drop, just make sure the transistion to the dirt is well reinforced to prevent a rut forming where the front tire hits.

[Biking Fiend]

From John

I'm not sure what your talking about? Th corner right before the first ladder entrance? Sort of off camber and has worn down 3 feet from the original line.? Drainage will be happening very soon, IF you(Sharon) could get some more of that rubber mat that would be great as that is the perfect tool to divert water off the trail.I think the roman road idea will be what i will end up doing over christmas break. That section is getting murdered. Lucky there is a lto of rock close by, shouldn't take to long.

[gimped]

MMM...trannies on the bottom of those drops would be stellar.

[trail worker]

the best option would probably be to put a downramp off the SIDE of the log..not off the end;this way there would be no intereference if yo wanted to drop it but you have the option of just doing a little downramp off the side.
ive never ridden the trail so i dont know what other kinds of things there could be....

[Sharon]

Originally posted by Biking Fiend
From John

I'm not sure what your talking about? Th corner right before the first ladder entrance? Sort of off camber and has worn down 3 feet from the original line.? Drainage will be happening very soon, IF you(Sharon) could get some more of that rubber mat that would be great as that is the perfect tool to divert water off the trail.I think the roman road idea will be what i will end up doing over christmas break. That section is getting murdered. Lucky there is a lto of rock close by, shouldn't take to long.

That's the one, You're heading towards the creek, then the sharp right turn then to the first log ride you fixed.

The ruts is pretty big and more braiding is happening there.

I'll call Jeremy re; the flaps.

[bullit_kid]

I say make a roman road all the way down john ;)

[bullit_kid]

Hey Sharon could this do as a sticky, as its important for people to express there ideas and concerns about a heavily ridden trail

(sticky ?? )

[LostBoyScout]

Being a trials rider with no guts (:D) I find I can ride any balance section (and love to) but am still no good at drops. Thus, I like the idea a lot!! I think any stunt that is along the main line of a trail should be rollable (don't have to be easy, just possible), and non-rollable lines should be to the side. Unless the trail is explicitly experts only :)

[Taylor_P]

Originally posted by trail worker
the best option would probably be to put a downramp off the SIDE of the log..not off the end;this way there would be no intereference if yo wanted to drop it but you have the option of just doing a little downramp off the side.
ive never ridden the trail so i dont know what other kinds of things there could be....

kinda like the logride/drop on wild man? just after the toothpick. that was what i was thinkin, but as how we've never riden the trail there could be other things as you stated

[switch]

After the sharp corner, the first log ride is long and cuts across the trail. The ramp over the log ride, where it cuts across the trail, has been fixed up and made a bit easier. I tried it on Sunday, and it's much better.

The ladder/log ride continues across the trail, and down the left side of the trail. The ladder rungs have all been replaced to where it becomes a log ride, and the ladder has been properly supported. Feels much safer.

Two thirds of the way down the log on the left, there was an off-ramp. We removed it because it was late and rungs were missing (someone tried walking it when we were there and they put their foot through a rung). I think what John is asking is whether to fix the off-ramp and put it back. I think it should go back because the only way out is the ladder drop at the end. Also, I think he's asking if the next log ride down the left (very bottom of trail) should have an off-ramp too, as it currently doesn't. I think it should as that ladder drop at the end is harder than the first one up above it.

As for drainage, there are some sections where water runs like a stream down the middle of the trail. The trail is rocky in these areas, but the water is eroding the rocks/gravel into a channel. The flaps that John propped up in the section right above the log rides totally diverted the water. They do work very well, and as John has stated, putting a few more in the correct places would make quite a difference in water diversion. The only other options are a sunken box-style drain, or to cut a drain channel into the trail. Cutting into the trail would be a lot of work in some of these areas - it's packed rock. Also, I believe that the less digging into the trail, the slower the erosion.

Sharon, if you can get some flaps, that would be great.

The areas where the erosion is digging a channel into the existing rock bed can be fixed up by filling in the channels with rocks and gravel. With little water running down (after drainage), it should hold up fairly well. That will keep the original flow to the trail. Only the steep section right before the corner/ladders is gravely and being torn into. More and more people are taking the line to the right, which is the lower side of the slope, and it worries me that someone will lose it and go over the side. I don't know exactly how, but it would be nice to fix up the section so that people are forced to stay on the left (high) side.

As for the rest of the trail, there are some drops and rolls that slower riders will roll, faster riders will jump. Some of the bottoms of the rolls are getting rutted. A couple of them have large boulders put in so you can roll off over the bolders, which is much easier. I would suggest doing this in the few places where the rutting is occuring, or where the rolls are large. Faster riders will still jump this section, so it would not affect them. Slower riders will endo a lot less.

Oh, and the corner before the log rides is actually pretty easy right now. I think it only needs to be buffed a bit on the outside so riders will stay on the original line.

[Rat]

My to bits on the log ride to really short trannt is leave the tranny where it is. I like how you need to come in slow and pop off the end. Not every drop on the shore needs to be the same.

however im all for letting the builder create his vision

[corey@nsmb.com]

How about a tranny after the last log ride to drop at the end of neds, where you go left to get to the crater? A nice little gap with a tranny would be great there. Looks like somebody had it in mind and stacked a bunch of logs and rocks off to the side, then lost interest.

As per the roll down on the earlier log ride...all it will do is induce a lot of traffic and destroy the transition. It would be nice for the riders who are not ready for the drop...but it is imprtant for some things to remain challenging. If people can drop it or roll it, it is going to see a huge increase in traffic and erosion.

But, hey, thats just my desires, it isn't my trail!!

[Banshee Beast]

:( Please leave the drop. Anything off to the side would be great.The tranny could use a little fixing up though. Thanks for all the hard work dude. The rest of the trail kicks!:thepimp:

[bullit_kid]

Do people get it yet, that dirt trannies have never and will continue to never work on a high use trail on the shore such as neds .. ladies .. boogeyman. Look at cbc the trannies are horrible on the 2 rock drops. Whut i think should happen is have the down ramp and then a wooden tranney. The tranneis inards which are rocks will show through soon .. IMO

[switch]

Originally posted by Mulletron
How about a tranny after the last log ride to drop at the end of neds, where you go left to get to the crater? A nice little gap with a tranny would be great there. Looks like somebody had it in mind and stacked a bunch of logs and rocks off to the side, then lost interest.

That's the ladder drop that doesn't really have a tranny at all, and if you drop off it slowly, the landing area isn't very good (need to do it with some speed to clear the uneven rooty area). A basic tranny would wash out, as Ross pointed out. The tranny on the gap jump seems very well built, so if one were put in on the last ladder drop, it would have to similar; bordered and filled with rock/gravel so as to survive the rain.

Originally posted by Mulletron
As per the roll down on the earlier log ride...all it will do is induce a lot of traffic and destroy the transition. It would be nice for the riders who are not ready for the drop...but it is imprtant for some things to remain challenging. If people can drop it or roll it, it is going to see a huge increase in traffic and erosion.

The roll down is before the drop - about 10 metres before. It veers right, is fairly long, and meets back up with the main trail. It goes nowhere near the tranny of the ladder drop. I think that it starts in a safe place on the log, exits onto the trail in a safe and highly visible location, and high enough up the trail to easily line up with the ramp over the log gap.

Originally posted by Mulletron
But, hey, thats just my desires, it isn't my trail!!

But it is your trail. And everyone else's too. Rider input is much appreciated as, like the roll-down mentioned above, not every thing is easy to decide upon.

[trail worker]

Originally posted by bullit_kid
Do people get it yet, that dirt trannies have never and will continue to never work on a high use trail on the shore such as neds .. ladies .. boogeyman. Look at cbc the trannies are horrible on the 2 rock drops. Whut i think should happen is have the down ramp and then a wooden tranney. The tranneis inards which are rocks will show through soon .. IMO

YAY wooden trannies!!! thats an excellent idea.just make sure you use thick shakes and stringers so it'll last repeated abuse!

[corey@nsmb.com]

The roll down is before the drop - about 10 metres before. It veers right, is fairly long, and meets back up with the main trail. It goes nowhere near the tranny of the ladder drop. I think that it starts in a safe place on the log, exits onto the trail in a safe and highly visible location, and high enough up the trail to easily line up with the ramp over the log gap.



The roll down they are talking about is to be like the roll down option on Schleyer, and will be at the end of said log ride where the drop is. I read the post. I know of the one you are talking about, the easy-out halfway down the log ride.

I also recognize that the last log ride to drop by the turn off to the crater has no tranny, which is mainly why I suggested that one be constructed.

I think if the tranny's are constructed using a large portion of rocks as the "fill" that they will hold up and work a lot better than dropping to flat.

[Reggaeman]

Originally posted by Reggaeman
I think the idea of Wooden Trannies is an awesome idea! Only prob is, are you gonna you 2*4's or wood you hack out of tree's? 2*4's are expensive and taking wood out of tree's kills the eco-system. Just a thought, with Neds I think the sandy section above the bridge with the Drop or the Big EZ needs some love. The section from about 40 feet after the A-Frame to the beginning of the Ladder Bridge needs some definate love IMO. If it was to get smoothed out and maybe burm the sharp right hander might be a cool addition to the trail. I think I may head up there on Friday and do some Maintenance on that one section.

[bullit_kid]

Originally posted by Mulletron
The roll down is before the drop - about 10 metres before. It veers right, is fairly long, and meets back up with the main trail. It goes nowhere near the tranny of the ladder drop. I think that it starts in a safe place on the log, exits onto the trail in a safe and highly visible location, and high enough up the trail to easily line up with the ramp over the log gap.



The roll down they are talking about is to be like the roll down option on Schleyer, and will be at the end of said log ride where the drop is. I read the post. I know of the one you are talking about, the easy-out halfway down the log ride.

I also recognize that the last log ride to drop by the turn off to the crater has no tranny, which is mainly why I suggested that one be constructed.

I think if the tranny's are constructed using a large portion of rocks as the "fill" that they will hold
up and work a lot better than dropping to flat.


The crater drop has been fixxed dont worry ;)

[corey@nsmb.com]

Originally posted by bullit_kid
The crater drop has been fixxed dont worry ;)


...I wan't talking about the crater drop, were you? I am referring to the log ride on the LH side of the trail that ends with a ladder drop. Then you go left (immediately) to follow the trail out to the crater.

[bullit_kid]

oh oops, i didnt read it right, yah iut neith has no tranney ..

[switch]

Originally posted by Mulletron
The roll down they are talking about is to be like the roll down option on Schleyer, and will be at the end of said log ride where the drop is. I read the post. I know of the one you are talking about, the easy-out halfway down the log ride.

Oh, I understand now. That Schleyer stunt is sweet - would be a great type of stunt for Ned's.

And you're right; a decent tranny on the last ladder drop should be put in at some point.

[corey@nsmb.com]

I'd prefer that it wasn't done like the Schleyer drop. It will induce to much traffic and destroy what little of a tranny is there right now. It has to remain somewhat challenging.

[bullit_kid]

Originally posted by Mulletron
I'd prefer that it wasn't done like the Schleyer drop. It will induce to much traffic and destroy what little of a tranny is there right now. It has to remain somewhat challenging.

wood traney :rolleyes:

[corey@nsmb.com]

That would be nice. Perhaps push it out a bit so you can hit it with some speed.

BTW, that rules that you guys are working on that trail. Thanks.

[Niggz]

a wood tranny is a good idea except that i think it will put a lot of pressure on the rungs and nails holding them in. they may be more likely to break. if you find dirt with high clay content and pack, water, repack (basic DJ strategy) ontop of a base of large flat rocks, it makes a not bad tranny.

[bullit_kid]

nigel is you make a wood tranney correctly, make many stringers that are realy close together.. make everything tight, and use screws maybe or maybe the nails with twist (forget name)

[switch]

Originally posted by bullit_kid
nigel is you make a wood tranney correctly, make many stringers that are realy close together.. make everything tight, and use screws maybe or maybe the nails with twist (forget name)

They can be built strong enough. If there's wood lying around, it would be fairly easy. Nigel's suggestion is a good one in that once the tranny is packed, it should last a long time. But you need the ride material, as he's pointed out, and you need to do a good job on framing the boxing for the tranny.

[bullit_kid]

yah but the tranney will never have time to set as that drop is prolly hit at least 75 times a day ..

[switch]

Originally posted by bullit_kid
yah but the tranney will never have time to set as that drop is prolly hit at least 75 times a day ..

Hey, I'm Italian. Brick laying comes naturally... :D

[Ned]

Speaking of bricks and Italians...

You guys oughta look at whacking Jeremy across the knees for some $$ to buy some concrete blocking that you can secure in with rebar. It's done a lot down here in the high elevation moto parks where the throttle monkeys chew the trails to bits. It lasts a long time and is very stable- even with the vehicular dependent riders repeatedly hammering the trail on big bikes. Just in the high wear areas.

[Sharon]

Originally posted by Ned
Speaking of bricks and Italians...

You guys oughta look at whacking Jeremy across the knees for some $$ to buy some concrete blocking that you can secure in with rebar. It's done a lot down here in the high elevation moto parks where the throttle monkeys chew the trails to bits. It lasts a long time and is very stable- even with the vehicular dependent riders repeatedly hammering the trail on big bikes. Just in the high wear areas.

do you have a picture?

[Niggz]

Originally posted by bullit_kid
yah but the tranney will never have time to set as that drop is prolly hit at least 75 times a day ..

yah you would have to block it off and i am sure someone would unblock it so you would probably have to stabd there guarding it for a week :lol:

[Ned]

Originally posted by Sharon
do you have a picture?

Sure.

Here's some candidates for the raw materials- of course there's many derivatives. I'll need to dig around in my photo's at home for an example of implementation but envision a blanket of blocks embedded and secured into a slope and covered over with some of the local aggregate or dirt. Along the same lines as geotextiles but with a hard material.

Of course it requires some strong hands to carry it in and install but there's probably enough muscle behind all the talk on this board to make it a reality. I'm of the mind that if you can heave a 50lb bike on and off the roof rack and flick it around on the trail like it's nobody's business then I think hoofing a few blocks around should be easy work :D

To keep costs down it'd be an idea to keep an eye out for demolition sites and load up the truck when it's available at no cost. Keep in mind all those old houses with concrete block fences that are getting knocked down too.

http://detnews.com/pix/2000/08/02/s07blocks.jpg

http://www.expocrete.com/products/turfstone.jpg

[Sharon]

ah yes, i've seen those in use in California, near Lake Tahoe ( Hole in the Ground to be exact) They seemed to work really well for their sandy easily eroded terrain.

They would work well in a few spots on Neds. Ross Kirkwood used them on the top of 7th too, a few remain.

But yes, getting them up there would be an issue... But John's a young strong guy!

[bullit_kid]

I'd give john a hand gettin em up there for sure

[switch]

The maintenance of the top part of the stunts at the bottom of Ned's is done. After checkout over the lower part (starting with the small jump on the corner right at first log after gap jump), there's not a lot of log work required. The up-and-over beside the first small jump is falling apart, so it will be fixed. Then there's only the entrance to the last log ride and ladder drop. The entrance is bad - better to walk you bike over to the start of the log ride. It will have to be totally replaced.

There's a large pile of boulders besides the "tranny" of the last ladder drop. Looks like someone was/is planning to build a tranny using the boulders for fill.

Drainage and some minor buffing will probably be next. If you know of a section that's looking rough, please post it up.

[corey@nsmb.com]

You guys are doing some SOLID work, very well done guys. Much thanks are extended to you. Our crew all commented on the nice work you and John had done.

That last logride and drop will be nice when it is done. I am all for a nice gap to a tranny off the end of that drop. Not a big gap, because it is a great stunt for people who are learning the ways, but enough that you can hit it with some speed and not blow your ankles out when you land.

Keep up the nice work!!

[switch]

Originally posted by Mulletron
I am all for a nice gap to a tranny off the end of that drop. Not a big gap, because it is a great stunt for people who are learning the ways, but enough that you can hit it with some speed and not blow your ankles out when you land.

If you hit the gap jump, maybe we'll put in a tranny... :D

[corey@nsmb.com]

Originally posted by switch
If you hit the gap jump, maybe we'll put in a tranny... :D
Ha!! OWNAGE!!.

I will go back and claim it. It is only a matter of feeling comfortable with it. :D

12/27/02

....I did it today. Took a handful of run-ups, but I hit it 3 times. yay!!

[barry]

building for a wider range of riders is always good....roll options for drops, big long trannies etc

but wasnt neds originally an XC trail?
im assuming it has made the shift?

[switch]

Originally posted by Mulletron
Ha!! OWNAGE!!.

I will go back and claim it. It is only a matter of feeling comfortable with it. :D

12/27/02

....I did it today. Took a handful of run-ups, but I hit it 3 times. yay!!

:D

[JSinclair]

I think the thought for the drop would be this
http://www.nsmb.com/images/shore_news/whistler%20bike%20fest/Katrina.jpg

In my opinion, it is a good idea. It gives people a chance to learn how to drop. Guys that can, will clear the wood, and new riders can roll it. Lets everybody hit the log ride and gives options. I am all for it.

With the gap there, I disagree with Mulletron (Even though we ride together)that the drop will get "Overused" there are so many options to lines at that junction that it would just be another choice.

The booter right below that section (The ramp up and over the log acrooss the trail) should probably have a down ramp on the back of it. I jump it, but beginers or first time riders might not know there is nothing there. There is a ride over already, but it is pretty skinny and doesn't lend itself to being a "Ride around" option for less experienced riders.

The Log drop below (Near the exit to the crater) needs a tranny. Right now it is sketch with roots and off camber mostly flat landing. Right beside that is the other booter which could use some love in the tranny as well...maybe a gap here ? just not a big one like 4-5 feet ? even leaving it to flat is cool too. I'm easy.

The corner above the log is getting killed, at this stage it is tough to hold the high side around the corner, so even I (after desciding to try to preserve the corner) am dropping to the inside line and rutting out the corner. I am all for making that corner a roman road. Maybe a berm so you are less inclinded to skid through. Might be less erosion if you could rail that and then slow down in the straighaway before the log roll on. (maybe that would just move the erosion down...I dunno, builders would have a better Idea).

Taking the downed and rotting log out of the landing area of the gap might make it a tad safer. I know that was where John saw someone go down and get NS rescued out. That just involves bucking it with a chainsaw and moving it.

I can't thank you guys enough (Rob and John) for all the hard work you have done on Ned's. Bullit Kid as well for ponying up. I will try to open up some time to come out and help.

Cheers!:beer:

[switch]

Jay, I'll get you a shovel tomorrow... :D

John did hack off quite a bit of the log/stump below the gap jump. It used to be much more prominent.

The rest of your suggestions are all very good ones. I think that given time and manpower they would all be implemented. Once the maintenance of what's broken is completed, adding a tranny here or there, as well as making some large drop/rolls smoother will definitely be in order. Fixing hazards is the first priority, drainage the second. After that, it's suggestions like yours that will definitely be looked at. No visibility trannies are a hazzard, IMO, and I agree that it would be good to make it visible.

[Last Transmission]

:D hey but a down ramp so people can ride down or do the drop or u could make a down ramp with a smaller drop:)

[switch]

:announce:

On the weekend, John and I finished all the woodwork on the bottom of Neds. This included the exit ramp on the first (S-shaped) log ride, the entrance to the last log ride, and the up-and-over on the log in between the two. On the up-and-over, there was a 2x6 skinny leading up, a ladder ramp down, and also a ladder ramp leading up on the left (but nothing down). The ramp on the left has been left as is. The up-and over has been rebuilt to be a small a-frame ramp. It's easy to ride over, but you can launch off of it too (we had some pro riders test it ;) ).

We started on a tranny for the last ladder drop, but only built the frame for the tranny before we ran out of light.

I don't understand why a tranny is important on that drop. While we were working right in front of it, a guy manualed off the ramp and landed like it was a 2 foot drop. :|

After the tranny is done, any woodwork that is in bad shape will be repaired. Right now we only know of the first a-frame, and the skinny ladder bridge at the very start of the trail. If you know of anything else that is in bad shape, or something on the trail you think could use some urgent attention, please post it up.

Oh, and I'd like to post a big THANK YOU to Chris Mack (sp?), who has been doing work on the top part of the trail. I met him once this summer while he was working on the trail, and he was there again yesterday. The sections he's smoothed out are quite noticeable.

[Sunday Rider]

Concerning the first ladder drop (the big one), the B route right-hander to avoid the ladder drop is a little awkward (especially when the log is wet). Is there a posibility of doing something to the left (as u look down)? There is a log running across that would make for a nice down ramp.

[switch]

Originally posted by Sunday Rider
Concerning the first ladder drop (the big one), the B route right-hander to avoid the ladder drop is a little awkward (especially when the log is wet). Is there a posibility of doing something to the left (as u look down)? There is a log running across that would make for a nice down ramp.

The off-ramp was always there. It was totally falling apart, and had to be rebuit. We did that, and we moved it down the log a bit so that people could ride more of the log.

When's the last time you rode Ned's? The start of the off-ramp was slippery, so we tacked on some ashphalt shingles. That was weekend before last.