these days.........

[SIDESHOW]

Wow. I never thought it would happen. I've finally started to look at the long term effects of my decisions as a rider on my overall life. Smoke phrased it very well, calculate how many days/months/years of the last 5 years you have been injured........................makes ya think a little. For me, I would say at leats 2 solid years in there.

Then I break down the actual injuries, and think to myself how many could have been avoided with a little common sense( almost all). Which brings me to my point. MTBing takes many soldiers down......many at the end of the day- the old "just one more jump" syndrome. Be careful peeps.

Our sport is progressing faster than our skills, and equipment. Now I know how good it feels to bust big moves( even though it seems the small ones always get me the worst), but please be careful, and calculated. Is the little surge of adrenaline worth six weeks of playstation. I only write this because i see too much pain all around me(including my own), MTBing is about flow and rythym not cartwheeling into trees.

this is not a lecture, just genuine concern for all the dudes like me that often act first then think................I'm tired of being hurt. I tired of all you being hurt.


Lets take it back a notch, as a kinda-pro guy. I would appeal to others in my position to pad there big jump video parts with some actual riding so the viewers have a better understanding of what we do.

we do this for fun right?????? lets not forget that. Even the highest paid freeriders don't make enough to justify the risk.

sorry for the rant- but go have a look at the board front page. It's outta hand.

[bullit_kid]

get outta the big moves cory
and into the little tech moves

:P

[snortpickle]

How Patrick Godin ended up really made me think. You're right..riding is about having fun, and not some pissing contest about who can hurl themselfs the furthest. Personally I've been shunning the gaps lately and just having fun on the techy street riding. But then again I'm a pussy ;)

[Keefer]

It's all dangerous. It's not JUST trying to step it up. Trying something you've been doing for awhile, go to pedal in and your chain snaps. Bam, just like that. It's all about calculated risk.

The adrenaline is the fruit of the labour. After a certain amount of riding, you no longer get the same rush. That's why you gotta kick it up a bit.

[Sharon]

when did it move from slow technical to high speed big moves?

[corey@nsmb.com]

Good post.

I think it is good for people to hear the perspective of somebody who has rolled the dice many times, won a lot, and also suffered a lot at the hands of the "odds".

This is a good thread.

[Sharon]

Not to open the can of worms...

I think a lot of people buy the big bikes so they can go fast and go big instead of buying a bike they can RIDE so they can learn how to ride.

For example. I went on a group ride that included a girl who must have weighed 100 lbs wet. She was riding a Dare with Shivers. This bike was WAY to big for her and would NEVER give her the opportunity to learn how to ride. Someone probably convinced her that she need this bike to ride these trails.

Don't tell that to the Old Schoolers!

I do see a trend away from the big bikes though. Lots of people are riding hard tails now. I think this takes away the speed factor and puts the technical factor back into the ride.

[Millstone]

Originally posted by Sharon
Not to open the can of worms...

I think a lot of people buy the big bikes so they can go fast and go big instead of buying a bike they can RIDE so they can learn how to ride.

For example. I went on a group ride that included a girl who must have weighed 100 lbs wet. She was riding a Dare with Shivers. This bike was WAY to big for her and would NEVER give her the opportunity to learn how to ride. Someone probably convinced her that she need this bike to ride these trails.


Agreed. You need the basics before you need a big bike.

[corey@nsmb.com]

I agree Sharon.

Seems like a lot of people buy big hogs as a first bike, and buy it more to "say" they ride than for the spirit of riding. Any moron can hop on a big travel bike and hang on, jump off huge things, and hack over all kinds of stuff on the trails. That isn't so much skill as it is balls.

I really feel it is essential if you take up riding, to learn on a smaller bike, a hardtail, do some XC and learn how a bike rides. Learn how to pick lines. Learn what tires can and can't do, and what that bike can and can't do.

I have seen a lot of people start out backwards, and they spend more time broken and sore looking at the nice big horse that bucked them than they do out enjoying the trail. The same kind of people who actually get angry when they fall or can't do something.... I've even seen them ghost ride BIG DOLLAR bikes in a fit, as if it is the bikes fault that they are not able to keep up with guys who have been riding for years. You gotta then ask: "why the helll are you riding? For yourself and for fun or to try to impress a bunch of people who you think care how and what you ride?"

I don't think it is a can of worms, it is a reality!

[the flying moose]

ive seen guys like that. they go bombing down a techy, rooty trail on the huge rigs and let the bike soak it all up. then there is guys like me who picks their lines and goes all over the place instead of straight down.

i know of at least two people wno have boughten big bikes just so they can hit the harder trails quicker. dumb.

[Putty]

Pay your dues on an HT kids. Money does not buy skill, and travel doesn't make for a smooth rider.

[Speed Racer]

Originally posted by putty
Pay your dues on an HT kids. Money does not buy skill, and travel doesn't make for a smooth rider. Travel is getting cheap, kids are getting hurt. Coincidence...no.

Big travel does a good job at provoking a kid to go bigger, but when you are new to the sport with little expierince going big can have terrible consequences. Atleast hardtails help a kid to get the basics down before they can even think about doing anything too crazy. The sport can remain safe enough if we all just stop to think about consequences and if they're progressing too fast every once in a while.

[Cucumber Jones]

Each to his/her own. Best option is to have more then one bike because there is a time and a place for a Dh rig and a time and place for a hardtail. Both are fun.

But really who cares what anyone else rides - ride what you like.

[dhrider]

Originally posted by putty
Money does not buy skill, and travel doesn't make for a smooth rider.

ya, but it buys safety for your ankles:D for teh big hits i mean

[Ipecac]

Good thread -- but I don't think people will get it until they are injured and are off their bike for some time to reflect. Or if they're blessed and young, they heal before they have time to think about the significance of their injury.

For me, my injury totally made me rethink my priorities and outlook on life. Besides, being off my feet for 6 weeks gave me LOTS of time to think.

'cac

[m33p]

Sharon nailed it.

Also with people riding above there ability 24/7, there gonna go down hard. You can progress slowly and not get injured or go at it and end up in the hospital.

Access your risks. Out of the 3 years I been riding, been out for maybe 3 months, another 1 year due to bike breaking. I never crash seriously, or get injured for more than a week at a time.

[Broken Fusion!]

Originally posted by putty
Pay your dues on an HT kids. Money does not buy skill, and travel doesn't make for a smooth rider.
word

[Jamie]

Originally posted by m33p
Sharon nailed it.

Also with people riding above there ability 24/7, there gonna go down hard. You can progress slowly and not get injured or go at it and end up in the hospital.

Access your risks. Out of the 3 years I been riding, been out for maybe 3 months, another 1 year due to bike breaking. I never crash seriously, or get injured for more than a week at a time.

??????????????????????
Didn't you recently post that you broke your wrist, and you are out of action for 6 - 8 weeks ??????????????

[trail worker]

Originally posted by Jamie
??????????????????????
Didn't you recently post that you broke your wrist, and you are out of action for 6 - 8 weeks ??????????????
another one got suckered :P

and 'cac, you're absolutely right..i hadn't realised how you think about things untill you're injured.

[Jamie]

Originally posted by trail worker
another one got suckered :P

and 'cac, you're absolutely right..i hadn't realised how you think about things untill you're injured.

? What a funny joke? I think I am missing something very vital to
understand the humour of this!!! But that is OK !!! I'll just keep chewing on this bar of SOAP, and maybe then it will come to me!!!

You crazy funny kids!!!!!!!
Hey I just poked myself in the eye ! Isn't it funny!!!!

[m33p]

Ht's don't make you smooth. All myth.

[$lack]

Originally posted by m33p


I never crash seriously, or get injured for more than a week at a time.


You best knock wood.
That's just asking for trouble!

[/v\ark]

"Pre 90's bmx street still destroys mtb, but were progressing, only 15 more years of being gay to go."
Who said that m33p? That is f#ucking funny!

anyway.
After tearing my knee up and being off for a while last year i've really taken it easy; I avoid stupid things and riding has never been so much fun. Alot of people enjoy being on the absolute edge of their skill and getting the rush a dangerous stunt brings. Yet my favorite moment biking this year was turning around at the end of a trail i've been riding for 15 years and being completly happy. I didn't push any new limits, I didn't hit anything huge, just fast flowly singletrack that i'm sure i'll be enjoying for the rest of my life.

[$lack]

Originally posted by m33p
Ht's don't make you smooth. All myth.

Crap.
Riding a hardtail has got to be one of the best ways to improve your technical skills.
I also don't think anyone needs a frame with more than 5 " of travel for any Shore trail - or any trail I've ridden for that matter.
Seven inches of fork travel is nice but I have to say it's more about geometry than travel. I don't think seven is necessary. With the same geometry a 5 " fork would adequate, even for drops to 12 plus feet.

FYI My ride is 5" travel Stinky Deluxe with a 2001 Boxxer 7" fork

[Cucumber Jones]

Originally posted by $lack
I also don't think anyone needs a frame with more than 5 " of travel for any Shore trail - or any trail I've ridden for that matter.


Big diference between need and want. If I only did what I needed to and not what I wanted to life would suck.

[trail worker]

Originally posted by /v\ark
"Pre 90's bmx street still destroys mtb, but were progressing, only 15 more years of being gay to go."
Who said that m33p? That is f#ucking funny!


those are the big man himselfs' words..good shit.

[Scarface]

Good words Cory.
Ive always been sort of a chicken i think, and all these injuries occuring around me has sorta got me thinking, thinking wayy more when I ride or do something out of the ordinary.
For Instance, stair gaps and wheelie drops are two of the things I dont enjoy as much any more, not only are they pretty dangerous, but there are other things that also look better than wheelie drops and stair gaps..

[bunny]

What a lot of you guys had to say in this thread really hit home. I have always been a bit miffed by guys on big bikes who tell me to "just aim and shoot". To me this is not the point of riding and when guys who are even less skilled than me try to tell me how to ride my little bike it makes me nuts.

But I seem to have spent more time than most bruised and bashed. The past few days though i waffle in between drug induced delirium at the thought of getting bigger forks and then back to the incessant pain from my last and possibly best pancake (it's such a bummer I don't remember it) which makes me reconsider biking at all.

People tell me it is scary how I have no fear (well I think I will have lots next ride) and I should just take it easy... I am just not sure that I know how. I think having better geometry and travel will help me ride the stuff I already am. But I don't want it to just get me into bigger and more dangerous crashes. Help!!!!! What do I do?

[$lack]

Originally posted by Super_250
Dropping smoothly on a HT is harder than landing a couch on wheels...

IMO If you can finesse a hardtail down a gnarly line or ride drops smoothly on a HT you can definately point a dually and go. Hardtails teach you the basics of riding, how to get back on the seat, picking a line, dropping, and learning how to land etc. On a dually newbie riders don't need to learn all this, they can just point and go. But when eventually they progress and start to go bigger, they don't have these basic skills to rely on.

And for the record, I'm not saying that there arent any good riders out there who started on dually, or that it takes no skill to ride a dually, because trust me it does. But to all these people going out and spending upwards of $3000 (or higher) on their first Bike aren't learning the skills that it takes to ride safely. Having an extra two inches of travel up front and travel in the rear doesn't nesecarily (sp?) mean that it's a safer ride than a Hardtail and single crowns for a n00b.

Well put.
A full squishy in the hands of a noob can be very dangerous.
Everyone should start on a hardtail.
Everyone should ride one more often.
Come to think of it so should I!

Any one know where I can find a 15" De Kerf Implant at a reasonable price?

[m33p]

Fuck I cam back from 2 years of riding fs to my p3 and was smoother than ever. But yes, everyone should start on a rigid bike actually.

[Jeff M]

Best thread I've read in a while. I've gotta agree with what's been said here, when you put big travel bikes and inexperienced riders together it's only a matter of time before something bad happens. Same thing with riding beyond your abilities, if you do it's only a matter of time before the odds stack up against you and you go down. Gradual progression is where it's at.

[Redneck]

I've been paying my dues on shore trails for 19 years . I started on grand daddies RockyMountain . The only suspension was the air in the skinny tires and when it rained and the mud was flying, those cantilever brakes kept you on your toes and often on your face . These days I ride a big mountain mower and I have a wonderful relationship with the little voise in my head and all my rides are great . Start on a hardtail .

[Del]

I have stopped dirtjumping for the summer now, and am only focusing on street movies because they are super teched out and require skills and practice, and often feel just as good to get, but you dont have the huge risk associated with being up high in hte air and doin 10 foot gaps etc at the djs.

I just want to make it out of the summer without being seriously hurt somehow. Last summer was hte faceplant on an urban gap, which physically left me witha scar for life, this summer a messed up shoulder was it, and hopefully will remain IT.

[Rat]

I have ridden with guys who go huge but cant flow a trail, its pretty lame in my opinon. Big jumps and gaps look good on video and thats about as close to them as I ever want to get.

Is it worth dropping or gapping anything where the outcome of not nailing it is an injury? I had way to many freinds get hurt last year and in almost every case they went too big, too fast or were too tired.

[Ned]

Age: 37
Marital Status: 6yrs and counting
Kids: 2
Dogs: 2
Bikes: 4
Mortgage: Big
Job: Nasty
Targeted weekly ride time: 12-20hrs
Desire to miss ride/family/work/play time due to dumbass injury: None

Using brain when riding to keep healthy: Constantly

[inshane]

First time I take a big spill I almost die :(

[shoreborn]

This thread couldn't have come at a better time for me.

I injured my ankle playing soccer and was told not to run for 6 mos. so I bought a 97 Gary Fisher HT to take up mtbing.

My friends took me down CBC for my first trail after I built up some strength and got some balance running some loggin road type trails.

I found CBC SOOOOO difficult. At the end of the trail my thighs were shot, my thumbs are still recovering a week later and my ankle is sore (not to mention I lost count of how many times my bike and I were going in different directions several feet apart)

The three guys I went with alll had duallies, and I was thinking of getting one because it seems to me that having the extra absorption of a back shock would help to smooth out some of the hard knocks.

Now it seems the people on the board I have come to respect having lurked the board for about a month say to stick with a HT to get better....

I don't want a dualie to go bigger, just smoother....

Are there any videos out there that are more instructional than guys hucking big jumps? I know that miles on the trail are necessary for me to improve, just thought there might be a way to speed up the process by giving me something to work from.

Thanks for all the posts.

Peace,

[Oldfart]

I have to agree with the opinion that riding ridgid teaches you some really basic skills. Like redneck, I too started on a Stumpjumper full rigid in 1983. Not so much brakes as things that kinda rubbed on the sides of the rims. Mafac canti's were weak. I like to think I have as much skill as some of the best riders on the shore, but I seriously lack the mental aspects to let go and do scary stuff. Fear of heights, well fear of feeling the effects of falling from height keeps my knobs mostly on the ground and around skinnies.

But its not just the new riders on big bikes that get hurt badly. People need to acknowledge the risks and understand the potential consequences. Its always tragic when some one is badly hurt, but it really bugs me when people try and blame others for their own bad luck or dumb decisions. I applaud Digger for putting Wade's leg breaking jump at the end of his last vid. Too many people watch the vids and get the idea that what the stars do is easy.

[umbullit]

i rode a ht xc bike for 5 years.
i learned a lot about riding, and how to pick lines.
i bought a fs when my ht was stolen, because at the time that it was stolen, i was about to stop riding, caus i have back and knee problems at times. my fs bike has helped this, and i ride more than ever now. i love it.
ill admit to, at times its fun to just mow down things, but more often than not, i pick my lines. i dont like smoothe lines, imo, you get better pushing yourself a bit each time.
my current plan is to buy a ht next summer. build it up ss, for trails. i loved my ht, and i want to go back, but as far as allowing me to ride, and enjoy it, the fs helped that.

Now, to comment on the other things mentioned.
i have yet to get hurt on trails. (knocking on some wood), and this is due, imo, to the fact that i am contanty alert on my bike. i try to stay loose, and pick good lines.
it is stupid however, that people are buying bikes that they could never use. the story of the girl who was 100 when wet using a shiver and dare, is just stupid. its ok to me to buy a bike that is a little above your skill level, in order to progress into it. it saves some money that way.

what im trying to say is everyone, reading about downed riders, and people injured, is getting scarry. its a sport we all love, and it hurts to hear that others are hurt. everyone be safe, and keep riding.

[LeeLau]

There's a video by West Coast School of Mountain Biking called West Coast Style. It's pretty good step-by-step instruction for beginner/intermediates. I think its the best of the instructional videos. Check it out at www.wcsmb.com

I had a 1998 GF Ziggurat for a while that I rode down everything! It had Avid disc brakes and the pimp yellow paint job and that Genesis geometry which made it a little more difficult to get back behind the seat. Your 1997 GF should have standard geometry. There's nothing wrong with that bike IMO. Stick to that bike and you'll be grateful you did

Originally posted by shoreborn
This thread couldn't have come at a better time for me.

I injured my ankle playing soccer and was told not to run for 6 mos. so I bought a 97 Gary Fisher HT to take up mtbing.

My friends took me down CBC for my first trail after I built up some strength and got some balance running some loggin road type trails.

I found CBC SOOOOO difficult. At the end of the trail my thighs were shot, my thumbs are still recovering a week later and my ankle is sore (not to mention I lost count of how many times my bike and I were going in different directions several feet apart)

The three guys I went with alll had duallies, and I was thinking of getting one because it seems to me that having the extra absorption of a back shock would help to smooth out some of the hard knocks.

Now it seems the people on the board I have come to respect having lurked the board for about a month say to stick with a HT to get better....

I don't want a dualie to go bigger, just smoother....

Are there any videos out there that are more instructional than guys hucking big jumps? I know that miles on the trail are necessary for me to improve, just thought there might be a way to speed up the process by giving me something to work from.

Thanks for all the posts.

Peace,

[cam@nsmb.com]

Speaking of myth you just created one.

They may not make you smooth but they make you ride much more smoothly.

Try it - go for 2 weeks on the hardtail and then jump on your dualie - it's like you are floating.

It works.


Originally posted by m33p
Ht's don't make you smooth. All myth.

[FlipFantasia]

last nights loonie dh race was best run of two on the bikercross....first run was wicked and I was feeling fast and flowy all night, second run I kinda sucked on the rythms and started pedalling in the berms to go a bit faster, launched the big table, started pedalling, caught my left pedal on a rock, and got slammed sideways over onto b-line.......still got a headached, and got back from the hospital this morning, luckily my ankle isn't broken but I severely sprained it (pulled the ligament) 4-5 days no walking......left a huge gouge in my helmet, ripped half my goggle strap, bent the pedal axle and pulled the pedal threads through the crank arm....maybe next time I'll just cruise the run instead of trying to go a bit too hard.....it is easy to get caught up in it though.......at least my first run was good enough to hold for 5th overall, that stoked me.....

[Captain Da]

yeah...i started on a hardtail, and just got my first dually in march...5" front/4" rear is perfect for me (4by)...i just like having a little bit of cush in the back for when i case, and so i don't get as beaten up in rocky stuff like whistler mid-season...

but yeah, starting on a hardtail makes you a smoother rider once you get on a dual suspension, i agree with that totally...i'm way better at balancing than my friends who've always ridden dual suspension, and way better at slow speed stuff.

as someone else said, having a hardtail makes you really have to pick lines well, rather than just point and shoot, and that translates into better riding.

[dertjumper89]

I love hard tails will stick with them for a long long time until i get super duper big and strong enough to actually lift it. I think my little xs sasquatch is heavy enough . The funny thing is that ppl go huck a little 12 footer and say that was a hard landing drop then i come roaring off it on my hardtail. Then they almost have a heart attack.:P

[white ri0t]

I'm going back to XC and road.

[shoreborn]

Lee, thanks for the post, I'll look into the video.'

Derek, is there somewhere near the shore that is good for XC?

Peace,

[white ri0t]

Originally posted by shoreborn
Lee, thanks for the post, I'll look into the video.'

Derek, is there somewhere near the shore that is good for XC?

Peace,

Brother's Creek in the British Properties, lower Seymour, Burnaby Mountain, Belcarra Park....there's a few spots, you just have to know where to find them, but I don't know how to describe to you how to get to them, especially Brother's creek. I'm sure Leelau is always up for a spin though :)

[trail worker]

Ive realy really really been thinking of building an XC hardtail...i have an old norco mocha frame here(size:21 inch...kiss those testicles goodbye! :eek: )...the frame is scratched and beaten to hell,so i'm thinking of repainting it myself...i wouldn't exactly be worrying about looks or anything; my letoy has that covered:thepimp:

i think XC would be fun..i used to really be into it,and i havn't even set foot on an XC bike for a good 4 years now...i'd like the little challenge.

[pistbroke]

2 years ago I hooked up a COVE handjob(steel), and started XCing it up a bit. It started as a winter thing, and now I do it all the time. I raced DH/Dual for years with really no idea on how to ride a bike. How I wish that I had purchased an XC rig back in 96. I truly believe my overall results would have been much better. Its amazing the handling skills you aquire when you spend 2 solid hours riding. On my first XC rip on Seymour, I was blown away at how many trails we hit in one ride( porter knows every little trail.....). Now I crave a short travel XC-Free-ride rig. Can you say "EPIC TIME" kids?????

Now with the whole freeride movement and really having no off-season. I find that the only way to stay healthy and strong is the occasional XC spin. No stress, just picking good lines, and flowing. Remember guys like Simmons and Dustin Adams were serious XC dudes at some point.

XC is the real free-ride. If you can pin it down the dustbin with your seat cranked, at night- you got skills( and sore nuts). :D

this is SIDESHOW, but I forgot to log out/in again.:???:

[Phelonius]

With all the Injury threads on this board, I wondered when someone would bring this subject up. This is an important thread.

Is it the Challenge, the Thrill or the Ego that keeps people pushing the envelope?
Which is it for you?
Make sure you know the answer to that question before you decide to step it up a notch on that next stunt. It will help you make an informed decision on whether it's important enough to roll the dice.
Cause I don't think people always give enough thought to what price they may have to pony up if they make a mistake. And the stuff we ride means you may have to pay large.

Is cleaning that stunt worth the price if you have to pay with a broken arm, leg or clavicle? Is it worth 6 months at GF Strong? Is it worth a wheelchair or worse til the end of your days?

Mountain biking has always been a dangerous sport, people were getting hurt doing this stuff in the 80's and early 90's too.
But it's never been as dangerous as it is today on the North Shore in Vancouver BC. No other place on this whole planet comes close.

Listen to the little voice in your head when he/she says don't be fuckin stupid. There's too much other cool Life stuff coming down the pipe to miss out on.

[Spaztic]

One thing nobody has mentioned so far:

As brutally boring as it is to spend time in the gym, strength equals less injuries. I started going to the gym during the off-season (winter) to build some strength, and I found that during the summer season (mostly DH racing) I was injured far less. Still, strength is no substitute for skill. And so as not to take my big bike for granted, I regularly ride a 1980's fully rigid ghetto bike. A little hard on the choda, but more fun than a monk at the peelers.

[Redneck]

I wasn't aware there was an off season. Being in shape and having a strong upper body goes a long way towards holding the old rack together .

[Ned]

Originally posted by pistbroke
Its amazing the handling skills you aquire when you spend 2 solid hours riding.

Wait till you get old...

2hrs just becomes the warmup. And 2hrs is needed for proper cool down if the correct amount of dirt passes under your treads.

[Dimes]

I find it interesting/frustrating that, as a result of taking up this sport in 88/89 with a fully rigid $1200 Raleigh Peak, I still find myself picking carefully through tricky lines, even though I now have the travel to blast through (Launch/Jr.T). What it has created for me is complete confidence is what I can do, and a reluctant acceptance of what I shouldn't do in order to make it home from the ride in one piece. There is never any shame in passing on a section.

[Redneck]

Live to ride another day sister/brother .

[m33p]

Originally posted by Spaztic
One thing nobody has mentioned so far:

As brutally boring as it is to spend time in the gym, strength equals less injuries. I started going to the gym during the off-season (winter) to build some strength, and I found that during the summer season (mostly DH racing) I was injured far less. Still, strength is no substitute for skill. And so as not to take my big bike for granted, I regularly ride a 1980's fully rigid ghetto bike. A little hard on the choda, but more fun than a monk at the peelers.

So true, #1 reason i rarely get hurt, I have lots of muscle(and lots of fat:lol: ), and I have a huge build. Big bones = no breaks. I crash hard when I go down, and I rarely come out with anything serious. Maybe a few scratches from not wearing pads.

[damian]

Originally posted by m33p
So true, #1 reason i rarely get hurt, I have lots of muscle(and lots of fat:lol: ), and I have a huge build. Big bones = no breaks. I crash hard when I go down, and I rarely come out with anything serious. Maybe a few scratches from not wearing pads.

And a broken wrist here and there.

I gotta put on some weight, I'm l33t pinner.