Geometry of the 04 Scream?

[BAC5.2]

I have been wondering if the 04 Scream geometry is the same as the 03's.

What size would you recomend? I was going to get a Large Chaparral, and it looks like a Medium Scream would be the closest to the sizing on the Large Chaparral.

What would you guy's recomend. It needs to fulfill standard trail bike duties and everything else.

I ride a 17" Stumpjumper right now (almost identical measurements to the Chaparral). If that makes any difference at all.

[Burnwood]

I hope the 04 Scream geometry stays the same as the 03 geometry...

...And then the 03 Scream geometry can also become the 04 Caparral geometry...I hope...

As for the sizing...The Scream is a REALLY long frame. That means that you can get away with a smaller size, yet still have a comfortable cockpit. Personally, I'd go with the Large Scream and run a super short stem, maybe even 0 length. But I'm kinda freak bike sizing wise...

[BAC5.2]

Yea, I am not down with a 0 length stem. I like to have some leverage. I rode my Stumpy with a 100 length stem, just jumped down to a 90 and it felt kinda weird. I am thinking of a 50mm Race Face.

The TT on the Medium is about the same as a Chap, which is the same as my Stumpy (slightly longer, exactly what I want).

If the geometry stays the same, I'll go 04 :)

[flowrider]

didn't Pip help you answer your biking woes already in your other 2 posts on what bike to get? Maybe reread what he said in the other posts.

[nick1111]

Originally posted by BAC5.2
Yea, I am not down with a 0 length stem. I like to have some leverage. I rode my Stumpy with a 100 length stem, just jumped down to a 90 and it felt kinda weird. I am thinking of a 50mm Race Face.

The TT on the Medium is about the same as a Chap, which is the same as my Stumpy (slightly longer, exactly what I want).

If the geometry stays the same, I'll go 04 :)

Why do you want to wait? I thought about waiting for the 04s but I decided not to. Got my 03 scream and it rocks.

[BAC5.2]

lol, my bad, I thought the 04's were on the boat with the Chaparrals. I just remembered that Monster Mike said they would be here in March. I'll get an 03, no problem. If I decide that 8" isnt enough, I'll get an 04 at some point. This thread is now useless :)

[nick1111]

8" will be good. You can usually set up an 8" to be bottomless for most uses.

If you want it to be super light, have the slider, raceface cranks, a titanium shock spring, 321 wheels, kevlar bead 2.5 tires, medium weight tubes, a thompson post, and a WTB laser saddle with ti rails. that could be like 42 pounds probably.

Mine is 48 or so... you'd save like 2lbs with the fork, 2lbs with the wheels, and a pound or two with other lighter parts.

[BAC5.2]

Yea, I'll be running the Slider, Race Face North Shore DH cranks, Ti Spring (on a Romic), 321 (or 521, don't yet know) rims, King rear hub, Kevlar Nokian NBX 2.3's (650 grams), Specialized TR Racing tubes, Tommy post, Salsa Zona with chromo rails (maybe TI rails).

My goal now is sub 45 pounds.

[nick1111]

It will be sub 45 for sure!

[BAC5.2]

Then I'll be fine. Granny Gear is there for a reason.

[Pennywise]

bender rides for banshee now eh?

[BAC5.2]

ummm.... I dunno?

[Pennywise]

s'what i heard. :rocker:

[HEYPIP]

yes, bender is our sponsored test rider. don't ride like bender.
ride your own game. what josh bender does is insane. revel and worhip his extremes. as jacques lacan stated.... style makes the man.

pip

[Mountain Dewd]

bac dogg, i really think you should get the chapparlle dude, if u r smooth i think it will hold up for u even when you r progressing, it weighs a lot compared to most freeride bikes, more than buillits, big hits, almost as much as orange.

u know people can huck on buillits, u can go pretty big on a chap.

and if u go uphill u will aprecciate the sub 15 pound frame.

get the chap man.

[BAC5.2]

I am concerned though about the bike suiting my needs. I usually don't see people on bullits doing 20 stair to tranny drops, and jumping off of anything and everything that can have a line picked off of it.

I am extremely torn. I want the scream, but then I think about the hills and my only answer is good shock valving and the granny gear. With the Chap, I would fly up the trail, and back down, but I would be a bit unsteady of it being as fearless as me.

If I have a bike that will obviously won't break, I'll be more confident and will go bigger. If I break the frame, it'll set me back SO much as far as progression goes. You are only as good as your components. Being smooth doesn't take the sting out of a 10' to near flat tranny. Your legs can only bend so far.

[Desloc]

I believe that the Chap will handle anything and much more than your Stumpjumper.

Think 37lbs freeridin' Chap... I know I am :)


Des

[Zaskar]

dude you know what you sound like you need. to try both bikes. there is only so much people can reccomend this or that. its all down to what you need. dont look at what you WISH you could do. look at what you are REALISTICALLY gonna do. you arent gonna be doing bender drops so you dont need a bender fork. get parts that suit your own riding style and giv'er.

THE SECRET TO A LIGHT RIDE IS GETTING WHAT *YOU* NEED.

:)
you're on your own now.

P.S. i ride a scream and i have had it set up in a couple different ways and each one gave the bike a totally different feel. versatility dude. very versatile.

http://www.geocities.com/flyingcircusca/banshee/banshee.html = mine

http://www.pinkbike.com/modules/photo/?op=view&image=104218 = sorry bastard :nono:

[TokSik]

BAC5.2, it sounds like you're doing that same thing that I did. I bought a bike WAY out of my league thinking "oh, i'll progress into it". I think in fact the bike actually held me back with my progression. I didn't learn how to be smooth or to flow and pushing around a heavy DH bike got tiresome VERY fast. Now, I'm riding a hardtail and learning to be smooth, because now I have to be. I'm going just a big as I did before (around 12' drops) and it feels just as smooth as it did on my 8" travel bike. What I love about the bike I have now, is I can do EVERYTHING on it. If I just feel like cruising around the city doing a little street stuff I can, or if I'm feeling like it I can go hit up a big stairgap. It's tempting to buy a beautiful bike like a Banshee Scream, but you really should think about whether or not you need a bike like that. I'm not saying you never need a bike like that, just make sure it's not too big of a step up.

[Zaskar]

they help you progress but not any faster, doesnt just inject experience in to your blood. i really had to work myself to get used to the big bike and now that i have its money. it's great. i had a HT before and loved it. both have their cool points and i think that a Scirocco kinda fits the bill in HT's. not too huge but definitely not pinner. I dunno man, check it out for HT's.

[Loopie]

Based on all of your posts over the past few weeks....I think you should be looking at lighter bikes.
I'm seriously thinking about lightening my program up bigtime aswell.
The Chap is looking damn fine:D

[BAC5.2]

Damnit, I definately am torn between the two bikes.

Both will handle and climb almost exactly the same, geometry is almost identical, and I would favor either of them. The only real difference is weight and travel. The scream would be 4 pounds heavier. My 35 pound Chaparral would jump to 39 pounds and gain 2 inches of travel.

I pussied out of a 6' to tranny the other day because of my wheel problem. I don't think i'll have any problems going big, just a matter of having a bike that'll do it. The Chap will force me to be smoother, but what happens when I hit the barrier that the Chap can take me? Gotta drop another grand on a Scream. What do I do if that barrier is 9 months from now? I don't want to be buying a bike that is, essentially, "Disposable" like my Stumpjumper was (got it to hold me over until the Chaparral's were ready for shipment).

I'll talk to Pip tomorrow and we'll work out what I should do. Both are very tempting. The lighter bike will give me the edge on the trails, and 6" is a great amount of travel. But when faced with a 10' to off-camber tranny, it'd be nice to have a little more cush room for the first few times I try it. When I drop, the first time, I'll monster truck it, and then the sucessive times, i'll go for style and smoothness.

Difficult choices. So far I guess the Chaparral is 4 pounds above the Scream. I'll think about it today and see what I'll do. Is 2" travel really going to make a HUGE difference? Or will it just be a pain in the ass when it comes to hills?

[Burnwood]

Who says you have to run the Scream in the 8" mode...I know if I get one, it will be kept in the 6" position all the time because I know that I don't need those extra 2 inches...

[BAC5.2]

That's what I was originally thinking. Just curious if I can run the same shock in all 3 positions. If I can, then Scream for sure, and I'll just suffer the 4 extra pounds. But if I can't, then I am torn again.

Just bump the Scream up to 8" for when I go downhilling and in some Urban instances. If I am willing to re-build my headset on the trail, I can spend 10 minutes swapping shock positions for the 10 footers on campus.

[snowboarder]

your not gonna notice the 4 pound difference. before i got my dc shiver i was riding a dj1 and the 4-5lb isnt very noticable.

[BAC5.2]

Yea, I jumped from a 4 pound Rock Shox fork to a 6.3 pound DC Slider, and I actually got faster.

[nick1111]

In the last few days i've done a lot of climbing on my 8" 47lbs Scream, but it's not that bad at all. The bike climbs quite well, i don't feel any slower than I did on my old ~35lbs hardtail. You notice the weight on the climbs, but you just have to push a little harder and you'll be fine.

Basically your overall body weight plus the weight of your bike vs. your muscle strength is what matters. So a fit guy who is 180 with a 50lb bike might climb better than a heavy out of shape guy who is 200 on a 30lb bike. (assuming you don't have huge differences in rotating mass)

[BAC5.2]

I think I'll go Scream, break the 45 pound barrier (giving me 13 pounds of play over the Chaparral, so it might even hit the 40 pound mark), and be fine. Run the 8" in the DH and Urban.

Can I run the same shock in the 6" mode? Anyone?

[Runge]

Originally posted by BAC5.2
I think I'll go Scream, break the 45 pound barrier (giving me 13 pounds of play over the Chaparral, so it might even hit the 40 pound mark), and be fine. Run the 8" in the DH and Urban.

Can I run the same shock in the 6" mode? Anyone?


ya you can

[BAC5.2]

Thank you Runge. Scream it is.

[Burnwood]

I'm sure you know this but...

As you change the travel positions the suspension ration also changes. This means that 8" travel is going to be a hell of a lot softer than 6" travel. Which makes it not ideal for urban situations...

Maybe you should set the Scream up so that your middle shock position has the required amount of sag and is perfect. Then if you really want to rip the XC trails switch it to the 6" mode and get a bit stiffer rear end which will be more efficient. Then when you want to go shuttling switch it to the 8" mode for a supple ride that's ideal for downhill riding...

[nickschwarzmiller]

Id say get the scream and build a cool hardtail also. The scream will be good for everything just make a comitment to get strong and be able to ride it good. Then with a hardtail you can do street dj and and other stuff.

[BAC5.2]

Burnwood - You are all kind's of hooking me up with ideas and information. I like that idea. Set the 7" setting up perfectly, then 6" stiff for XC, and 8" for DH. Perfect idea! Thanks!

Nick - I am all about versatility. I COULD build a light weight hardtail for XC, but if I can have 1 bike, that's less dorm room space that will be taken up by bikes. Remember, College...

[Monster Mike]

Awww how cute. Theyre soo worried about weight. 56lbs. bam. Heavy sure, but i never worry about her not being able to take it.

[WBC]

I run mine in the 7"...it's good.

The scream is hella flickable, too. I was surprised. It doesnt climb as well as my big hit, though :(

[HEYPIP]

Originally posted by Burnwood
I hope the 04 Scream geometry stays the same as the 03 geometry...

...And then the 03 Scream geometry can also become the 04 Caparral geometry...I hope...

As for the sizing...The Scream is a REALLY long frame. That means that you can get away with a smaller size, yet still have a comfortable cockpit.

the geometry isn't gonna change. only the standover height will be lower. it will use a longer shock(8.75x2.75) for all travel positions (7,8,9") because of the new 9" travel position.

anwyays, it's not about how much travel you have but how you design it. the 04 scream cockpit and suspension geometry is unchanged other than the shock length, stroke and rear wheel travel. the progressive rising rate and, drive affected pivot locations, remain unchanged.

pip

[HEYPIP]

Originally posted by Desloc
I believe that the Chap will handle anything and much more than your Stumpjumper.

Think 37lbs freeridin' Chap... I know I am :)


Des

werd to that, dude.

i think he's gonna progress way beyond that, too. if he gets a chap and wants to go bigger, it's gonna suk. i don't recommend the scream to everyone but i think he needs one.


btw bac, a chap is like a bottomless bullet. the scream is where you're gonna be in a few months.

progression is soooo amazing, dude. revel in it.

pip

[HEYPIP]

Originally posted by Monster Mike
Awww how cute. Theyre soo worried about weight. 56lbs. bam. Heavy sure, but i never worry about her not being able to take it.

lol@mike.

did you see those pics of gully(135b) doing huge tables and heel clickers on hes 56lb scream?

call me sometime.


pip

[BAC5.2]

haha, I definately think the Scream will be good for me.

I am worried about facing the limits of the Chap. In my normal XC rides, pushing it or not, the Chap is enough travel in the 6" mode. But as soon as I hit the streets and the DH's, If there is a clean run out and a semi-clean run up, I will find some way to hit it. If I am gonna go big, I'm gonna need a steed I can take there. If I never hit the limits of the Scream, that's cool, but I wanna hit MY limits, and to do that, I can't be worried about my bike.

[Loopie]

I correct my statement(in another thread?) about what I feel you should be on Bac. Get the Scream:)
Confidence in your ride is a HUGE part of progressing sometimes...I was very dependant on my ride recently...and I progressed A LOT....but now that I'm there or approaching the limit of what I think I'll be doing 99% of the time...and knowing my record of damage to components and such...I'm about to embark on the search for a bike that fits exactly within a narrower range...but experience allows this:cool:

[BAC5.2]

Exactly. Build to a bike perfect for what it needs to be.

Buy a bike now that will bring me to my limit, then get a new bike to let me dial my style and fine tune the skill.

Thanks for all your help everyone!

[Burnwood]

Originally posted by HEYPIP
the geometry isn't gonna change. only the standover height will be lower. it will use a longer shock(8.75x2.75) for all travel positions (7,8,9") because of the new 9" travel position.

anwyays, it's not about how much travel you have but how you design it. the 04 scream cockpit and suspension geometry is unchanged other than the shock length, stroke and rear wheel travel. the progressive rising rate and, drive affected pivot locations, remain unchanged.

pip

I'd be interested to know how you managed to lower standover the standover height yet increase the stroke length while keeping the same pivot locations, considering how little room there was above the shock on the small 03 Scream frames...

[BAC5.2]

Shorter seat tube would be my guess. A Large could have the TT/ST weld a bit lower. giving it more clearance. The larger frames would obviously have a more significant difference, but the smaller ones already have a good bit of clearance. If you are 4 feet tall, should you really be riding a bike like a Scream?

Speaking of which, I never see any midget riders. Kinda stinks :(

[HEYPIP]

Originally posted by Burnwood
I'd be interested to know how you managed to lower standover the standover height yet increase the stroke length while keeping the same pivot locations, considering how little room there was above the shock on the small 03 Scream frames...

it was really hard to set up. dh and i spend around 2 months on that problem.

pip

[Burnwood]

Guess I'm gonna have to wait until Interbike to see eh...

You're such a tease Pip...

[BAC5.2]

Lol, When is Interbike? I wanna go, and I will if I don't have school. I already have a ticket in, just a matter of getting on down there.

On another note, I got the Scream. Medium in Gunmetal. I was a bit torn on the size.

My 17" Stumpjumper had a 585mm top tube, the Medium Scream has a 580mm top tube. I just now realized this. I wonder if I should call Pip back and go with a Large. I don't wan't the frame to be TO long. The TT on the Chaparral is 584. The Scream is either 580 or 600. I wonder if I should call back and change it to a Large (like Pip originally suggested, damn me for not listening). I am just worried about the TT being to long so I can't be behind the bike on the drops and Downhills. To short and my back dies on the climbs.

I guess 5mm isn't much of a difference. I should be fine with the Medium. I am 6' tall with a 33 or 34 inch inseam. I figured get the Medium because I have long legs, but a short torso.

My Stumpjumper has almost 9 inches of seat post out at my XC riding position. What do you think?

Damn my indecisiveness. For Urban and such, the Stumpy feels great, espically in the air. But on long XC rides, my lower back KILLS. Whatcha think?

[Burnwood]

Interbike is in September...

I prefer a very long top tube with a short stem. A shorter stem gives quicker steering and makes it easier to pull the front end up...It also gives us long legged folk less of a chance of smacking our knees on the top crown...

If your lower back is killing, your stem is probably to long. I used to have this problem with my 135mm stem on my XL I-Drive frame. A much shorter stem let me stay in the saddle longer with much less pain...

PS...Make up your damn mind before Pip and the Banshee crew kill you...

[BAC5.2]

I am a ball hair away from being assassinated by Pip himself. He's gonna jump through the phone line one day and strangle me with a spoke.

I have a 90mm stem on the Stumpy now.

Think I should change to a Large and get a 50mm stem? I think I will because it'll be the same overall length as the Medium with a 70mm stem.

SORRY PIP! I'll call tomorrow :( Don't kill me! It's a lot of money, gotta have it perfect!

[Burnwood]

Definately get the Large...

...Especially if that's what Pip recommended...

[BAC5.2]

yea, I am a dumbass for doubting him :(

[Monster Mike]

Pip we gotta talk about interbike....I'm really fighting to go its all a matter of money.

I'll call you tomarrow....

I'm back riding man so I hope to hit dc this weekend. I need to get some video going if im going to get a good run for the Race Face deal.

[BAC5.2]

If the Scream is done in time for school, then I'll enter the Race Face deal also.

[Kerr]

how can you say large or med (or small) banshee, there are 4 sizes

arg i will shut up now

KERR

[BAC5.2]

Small, Medium, Large, Huge.

www.bansheebikes.com/bikes_scream.php

[nick1111]

how tall are you Bac? I'm around 5'9" and the medium scream is awsome. I have the Marzo integrated stem which is nice and short -- great for lifting the front end up, especially with a heavy fork.

[BAC5.2]

6' almost 6'1

[Zaskar]

dude, hahahaha ride your bike love your bike :lol:

[BAC5.2]

That didn't make any sense, but I am going to love my bike like it was my own child. Come to think of it, I would rather have this bike than a child. Cost's just as much money, but doesnt cry in the middle of the night, and makes girls bitchy for different reasons.

[some dude]

Originally posted by BAC5.2
That didn't make any sense, but I am going to love my bike like it was my own child. Come to think of it, I would rather have this bike than a child. Cost's just as much money, but doesnt cry in the middle of the night, and makes girls bitchy for different reasons.

I think you've noodled for so long about "the perfect bike" that you've gone demented.

[BAC5.2]

I think you're right. But I have the perfect bike, it's just a matter of waiting for all the parts to arrive :)

[Demonic]

Originally posted by HEYPIP
the geometry isn't gonna change. only the standover height will be lower. it will use a longer shock(8.75x2.75) for all travel positions (7,8,9") because of the new 9" travel position.

anwyays, it's not about how much travel you have but how you design it. the 04 scream cockpit and suspension geometry is unchanged other than the shock length, stroke and rear wheel travel. the progressive rising rate and, drive affected pivot locations, remain unchanged.

pip

ARGH! 8.75 x 2.75 shock?? Man, i was hoping to keep my risse for the 04 scream. Wonder how much it would cost to have risse re-build the shock?

[llkoolkeg]

If you change the travel setting, you will most likely need a different spring. I have two different springs for my Scream so that I can run mine in the middle or full travel settings. Personally, I like how the bike feels in the middle travel setting(about 6.65") with the dropouts in their rearmost position. Bear in mind that changing either the dropout setting or the travel setting alters the rear wheel's leverage on the shock:

7.90" = more leverage
6.65" = less leverage
axle at rear of dropouts = more leverage
axle at front of dropputs = less leverage

The more leverage on your shock, the stiffer the spring you'll need. Spring rate selection is vital. If you get it wrong, you can compensate somewhat with set-up but you're best off just getting it right from the start.

[How]

I like the idea of keeping the 03' in production along with the big hit... maybe putting overdrive on it too.

[Monster Mike]

Originally posted by How
I like the idea of keeping the 03' in production along with the big hit... maybe putting overdrive on it too.

if you only knew how right you are......

[Zaskar]

Originally posted by nickschwarzmiller
Id say get the scream and build a cool hardtail also. The scream will be good for everything just make a comitment to get strong and be able to ride it good. Then with a hardtail you can do street dj and and other stuff.

ahahaha i did that, and sold off all the stuff for my hardtail. i never rode it. i thought itd be nice to switch between bikes. but frankly the scream does everything im in to.

and bac dude, when i said ride your bike love your bike. what i meant is stop get all antsy on the internet about what to get. you'll grow accustomed to any bike you get. just get what YOU think suits you best. or you'll end up with some v10 with super monster and dual 24" with 3.0 michelins and all this crazy overpriced stuff that you really dont need but some kid on the other side of the world would like you drop the bling on so he can druel at it. jsut get it love it and be happy. cuz thats what i did and havent looked back since :thepimp: