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DaveM
12-16-2011, 06:12 AM
Looking through Sram and Shimano's site tonight it looks like pretty much everything is 10 spd for 2012, is this right? Further, the 10 spd front chainring spacing isn't compatibe with existing 9spd stuff? Tell me I'm missing something.

I'm not convinced with 10spd yet. On a trail bike 22/32 or 34 and a bash works just fine with a 34 cassette out back. Now with 26/39 or the like you're forced to used a 36 tooth 10spd cassette which either weighs a ton or costs a fortune. wtf? It also forces you to spend more time in the 26 tooth granny which doesn't tend to play well with a few suspension designs.

Please tell me I'm missing something and marketing isn't forcing me into yet another standard I don't want or need.




PUNKY
12-16-2011, 06:23 AM
Various sizing. No idea of the weights though.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=52281
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=55198

Ive got a XG1080 on its way for the Chromag.
This on my Range (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=52312)I've only had experience with 1x10 even though my Range came with a 2x10 setup with 36-24-bash combo.

RaceFace looks to have a few cranksets with more NS friendly chainring sizing, and Blackspire is releasing ones as well.

Sram X0 DH crankset has 104BCD. Other X0 appear to have 120BCD

Jerry-Rig
12-16-2011, 06:28 AM
10 speed is awesome for 1x10. 32x36 and you can climb anything.

JCL
12-16-2011, 06:43 AM
10 speed is awesome for 1x10. 32x36 and you can climb anything.

Really?

Why do WC XC racers use granny rings then?

kperras
12-16-2011, 06:49 AM
Really?

Why do WC XC racers use granny rings then?

Some run 1x10.

DaveM
12-16-2011, 06:50 AM
I'm more thinking about cranksets, as that's what I'm in the market for. I know 9spd is still available now, but for 2012 it looks like xo and xt is 10 spd only.

32/36 may work for you Jerry, but not for me around here.

kperras
12-16-2011, 06:51 AM
http://www.canyon.com/img/highlights/613_img_big.jpg

DaveM
12-16-2011, 07:01 AM
http://www.canyon.com/img/highlights/613_img_big.jpg

ummm

where does the bashguard go?

and now I have to buy a 10spd front shifter too, since the spacing is apparently different?

enduramil
12-16-2011, 07:01 AM
Not as long as I have access to a hacksaw and a drill.:D

kperras
12-16-2011, 07:05 AM
ummm

where does the bashguard go?

and now I have to buy a 10spd front shifter too, since the spacing is apparently different?

http://www.olympiccycles.co.za/uploads/44af0c1d836244dc935764fb8f28fafa-09112011-115356.jpg

Accepts bash

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h69/kperras/Picture1-2.png

DaveM
12-16-2011, 07:12 AM
Accepts bash


but have to change to 10spd front shifter?

I'm just a bit pissed as I've been running 9spd for years, have stocked up on spare derailleurs, cassettes, shifters and chains...and now I want new cranks and my choices are limited.

walleater
12-16-2011, 07:16 AM
ummm

where does the bashguard go?

and now I have to buy a 10spd front shifter too, since the spacing is apparently different?

104BCD is still OK for a bashring, but for some reason, the designers of 120BCD decided that people will only use this set up for going shopping? As for shifting, ideally you need to go 10sp as the derailleur cage is narrower to work with the chain. Unless you want to think outside the box and mount a RH thumbshifter underneath the bar on the LHS, switch it to friction, and get front shifting that is finally as good as it was in 1989!

JCL
12-16-2011, 07:16 AM
Some run 1x10.

But the fact that some don't says everything. Considering they're all twice as strong as anyone on this forum.

DaveM
12-16-2011, 07:21 AM
what exactly was so terribly wrong with 9spd?

boomforeal
12-16-2011, 07:23 AM
what exactly was so terribly wrong with 9spd?

market saturation

heed the clown:

observe as i will demonstrate the inner workings of the mind of a bicycle industry exec

hmm what problem that doesn't exist needs solving today

PUNKY
12-16-2011, 07:24 AM
So Sram does make a 3x10 104 BCD crankset? Their website is almost useless for product info. All I could see was X0 120 BCD 2x10 and the DH cranks which I just found out are 104 BCD. Oh well XT 2x10 is BCD 104 and I have no use for a 40/28 ring combo.

Not going to try the new 2x10 taco bash 2X guides out there?

JCL
12-16-2011, 07:24 AM
but have to change to 10spd front shifter?

I'm just a bit pissed as I've been running 9spd for years, have stocked up on spare derailleurs, cassettes, shifters and chains...and now I want new cranks and my choices are limited.

It's bollocks isn't it? Just buy an XT or XTR 9spd chainset off CRC.

DaveM
12-16-2011, 07:26 AM
So Sram does make a 3x10 104 BCD crankset? Their website is almost useless for product info. All I could see was X0 120 BCD 2x10 and the DH cranks which I just found out are 104 BCD. Oh well XT 2x10 is BCD 104 and I have no use for a 40/28 ring combo.

Not going to try the new 2x10 taco bash 2X guides out there?

the MRP ones look nice, but I've got a good collection of Gamut guides in just about any configuration I'll ever need.

boomforeal
12-16-2011, 07:26 AM
I'm just a bit pissed as I've been running 9spd for years, have stocked up on spare derailleurs, cassettes, shifters and chains...and now I want new cranks and my choices are limited.

i was buying cut-price 8spd xt and xtr for years after they were rendered obsolete by 9 spd. they're out there, guaranteed distributors have back stock. just takes finding out which ones and pouncing when they blow them out

It's bollocks isn't it? Just buy an XT or XTR 9spd chainset off CRC.

or, this

walleater
12-16-2011, 07:27 AM
what exactly was so terribly wrong with 9spd?

People always want more or bigger. Look at the size of either the VW Golf / Rabbit in the last 30 odd years, or tits.

As for your problem, you can just by a set of cranks and stick your 9 speed rings on them, assuming they are 104BCD.

DaveM
12-16-2011, 07:27 AM
It's bollocks isn't it? Just buy an XT or XTR 9spd chainset off CRC.

that's exactly what I'm going to do. That'll hold me over for a few years.

DaveM
12-16-2011, 07:28 AM
People always want more or bigger. Look at the size of either the VW Golf / Rabbit in the last 30 odd years, or tits.

As for your problem, you can just by a set of cranks and stick your 9 speed rings on them, assuming they are 104BCD.

yes but the chainring spacing on 10spd is narrower, so you have to replace the front shifter and I've heard front derailleur too, but I'm not sure of that.

walleater
12-16-2011, 07:33 AM
yes but the chainring spacing on 10spd is narrower, so you have to replace the front shifter and I've heard front derailleur too, but I'm not sure of that.

As far as I am aware (and maybe I should know this 100% but I can only be so much of a dork.....), it's just the narrower rings themselves that make the spacing different. For example, looking at 'specs and colours' this RF crank would suggest that the crank is the same for 9 or 10sp:

http://raceface.com/components/cranks/next/next-xc-triple/

tungsten
12-16-2011, 07:56 AM
Anyone know where I can find the spacers to make my 5spd freewheel into a six?

tazzmenn
12-16-2011, 08:06 AM
Anyone know where I can find the spacers to make my 5spd freewheel into a six?

Something like this ;)

http://brianphillips.co.nz/zen/images/chainringspacers.jpg

FullMonty
12-16-2011, 08:10 AM
Anyone know where I can find the spacers to make my 5spd freewheel into a six?

dude... shoot for the moon, go to 7. while you're at it, hit up some of that megarange bidness.

http://www.globalbikesonline.com/catalog/images/mega%20range%207%20speed.jpeg

C.Lee
12-16-2011, 09:54 AM
yes but the chainring spacing on 10spd is narrower, so you have to replace the front shifter and I've heard front derailleur too, but I'm not sure of that.

hm, not sure if this is any of help but my '12 sx trail

uses 10spd x.7 front shifter and shimano 9spd front der(FD-M660) with 10spd cassette and chain

Bryan
12-16-2011, 03:52 PM
The old boy is running 10spd rear shifter/derailleur/cogset with a 9spd front shifter/derailleur/crankset.

DaveM
12-16-2011, 04:16 PM
The old boy is running 10spd rear shifter/derailleur/cogset with a 9spd front shifter/derailleur/crankset.

complete opposite of what I'm whining about.

9 speed everything out back. I have 9spd front derailleurs and shifters. If I want new cranks, and higher quality (xt+) it looks like in the near future I'll be forced to convert my front shifting to 10 speed stuff. It's the crankset/front shifting compatibility that's in question.

brightidea
12-16-2011, 04:17 PM
^reading the thread i wasn't sure why that couldn't be done.

DaveM
12-16-2011, 04:20 PM
^reading the thread i wasn't sure why that couldn't be done.

there is talk that the ring spacing on 10spd cranks is different than 9spd. So your 9spd front shifter that has worked on pretty much every bike no matter what brand derailleur for years and years may not work on 10spd. Although that is in question and I wish someone would test it out.

jbazett
12-16-2011, 04:29 PM
yes but the chainring spacing on 10spd is narrower, so you have to replace the front shifter and I've heard front derailleur too, but I'm not sure of that.

I'm running 10 speed XT's with 10 speed rings up front on my Covert with a 9 Speed chain and Front derailleur. Haven't had a single issue yet.

DaveM
12-16-2011, 04:46 PM
I'm running 10 speed XT's with 10 speed rings and derailleur up front on my Covert with a 9 Speed chain and Rear derailleur. Haven't had a single issue yet.

again, not the issue

we're talking front shifting. If we all have 9spd front shifting now, buying new cranks might be forced to change front shifters (and derailleur) to 10spd because 9spd cranks will not be available soon.

Bryan
12-16-2011, 04:48 PM
there is talk that the ring spacing on 10spd cranks is different than 9spd. So your 9spd front shifter that has worked on pretty much every bike no matter what brand derailleur for years and years may not work on 10spd. Although that is in question and I wish someone would test it out.

I know he tried the 10 spd shifter with a 9spd crankset/deraileur and that didn't work out. I would think a 10spd crankset with 9spd stuff would have some issues.

Considering, one can still buy 7 and 8 spd stuff, I wouldn't be too worried about 9 spd being gone to soon.

DaveM
12-16-2011, 04:51 PM
1 wonder if it's just the shifter, the derailleur only moves as much as the shifter makes it

skifreak
12-16-2011, 05:02 PM
Some run 1x10.

I remember seeing Kabush at Mount Washington grinding out that course with no granny...

Bryan
12-16-2011, 05:05 PM
a 36 tooth 10spd cassette which either weighs a ton or costs a fortune. wtf?

I think a 10 11-36 spd xt cogset weighs less then 60 grams more then the 9spd one and price is within $10 of each other. I think the weight differance with the sram is a touch less. As a former WW, it's a little bothersome of a weight gain....

I'm hoping on my SS, that the 11-36 will allow me to climb a few of the more steeper climbs around here, if it does(no reason why it shouldn't lol) the 50-60 grams will be worth it.

I also have a collection of 9 spd XO stuff that I'm a little worries about, but it will be perfect for the DH,XC or the DJ.

DaveM
12-16-2011, 05:36 PM
so google says that the front shifters are actually still the same between 9 and 10spd. It's the front derailleur geometry that is different. So to run 10spd cranks on a 9spd system you have to change the front d and chain.

I think

Bryan
12-16-2011, 05:38 PM
old boy ran 10 spd front shifter with 9 spd derailluer and crankset and had issues, switched back to spd shifter and all was good.

Jerry-Rig
12-16-2011, 05:44 PM
Why do WC XC racers use granny rings then?

Why do most enduro racers run 1x10? For the Shore it's nice to have the 36t in the back and you can't get that in 9 speed.

JCL
12-16-2011, 05:47 PM
Why do most enduro racers run 1x10? For the Shore it's nice to have the 36t in the back and you can't get that in 9 speed.

No issue with that but I'd just say it's nicer (essential for me) to have a 24T up front.

DaveM
12-16-2011, 05:47 PM
well they sure took a very compatible system and turned it into a shit show. I've read issues now between shimano/sram rear derailleur and cassette compatibility.

Maybe that's the whole motive behind this big 10spd push. When they create a new system they can figure a way of stopping the mix matching between brands.

We used to be able to run any brand cassette with any brand derailleur. Is this still the case?

DaveM
12-16-2011, 05:49 PM
Why do most enduro racers run 1x10? For the Shore it's nice to have the 36t in the back and you can't get that in 9 speed.

If they would have just made a 9spd cassette with a 36 cog wouldn't that have solved everything without creating a whole new system that isn't compatible with the old system?

biggles604
12-16-2011, 05:50 PM
10 speed is awesome for 1x10. 32x36 and you can climb anything.

I can tell you don't ride Burke or Eagle.

Bryan
12-16-2011, 05:55 PM
Why do most enduro racers run 1x10? For the Shore it's nice to have the 36t in the back and you can't get that in 9 speed.

just sayin.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=31059

Also, I hope that Hope might come out with their 9 spd 9-36 cogeset.

Jerry-Rig
12-16-2011, 05:57 PM
I can climb Burke with 1x10 on my SX Trail but it's a battle. Usually take my 29er. 95% of my riding is the Shore and Seymour. No granny required.
Isn't Eagle a push no matter what type of bike? Been many a year since I've been up there.

Bryan
12-16-2011, 05:57 PM
We used to be able to run any brand cassette with any brand derailleur. Is this still the case?

in the mail some where is a 10spd Shimano cassette and a Sram x9 derailleur heading for my house....give me a week or to and I'll let you know.

Jerry-Rig
12-16-2011, 05:58 PM
just sayin.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=31059

Also, I hope that Hope might come out with their 9 spd 9-36 cogeset.

has to be SRAM for me...

Oldfart
12-16-2011, 05:59 PM
Really?

Why do WC XC racers use granny rings then?

The top guys don't use grannies. Some of the women might. ten speed gives you the range to allow two rings to work better. Loose a chain ring and gain a cog. I have used 9 spd rings with ten speed chains and derailleurs and shifters no problems. I just set up a bike with a ten speed triple with 9 speed front derailleur no problems. I like the fact that ten speed gives a good wide range (11-36) without large differences between gears. It allows a 26-36 or 26-39 or whatever two ring system to work well. I have always found the 42 or 44 to be pretty useless in other than the mid range out back. a 36 to 38 big ring with an 11 cog is all the big gear 99% of us need. Cassettes and rungs may actually last longer because we will use more of them and spread the wear around more. Personally I have not found my 2 X 10 or 2 X 9 setups to wear at a faster rate. It has only been a year on my two 2 X 10 setups and the older one, the xtr on the hardtail still runs well with only two chains replaced thus far. Getting a little gritchy in some gears but I have new stuff in my shop for the spring. I think I'll leave the new drive train in the shop for the winter.

Bryan
12-16-2011, 06:00 PM
I can climb Burke with 1x10 on my SX Trail but it's a battle.
Isn't Eagle a push no matter what type of bike? Been many a year since I've been up there.

Yes Eagle is a push, there are no trails or routes that are climbable....if you hear different they are clearly lying.

Burke can be climbed with a 32-36 combo....

I know of people who climb almost all of it on a single speed 29'er....

Neither of the above 2 are me...

boomforeal
12-16-2011, 06:02 PM
Yes Eagle is a push, there are no trails or routes that are climbable....if you hear different they are clearly lying.

i've only been to eagle once, but i remember riding all the way up - except for a bit of a push on the wall. paging biggles...

all this "wc racers do it like this" crap is :lol:

Bryan
12-16-2011, 06:03 PM
has to be SRAM for me...

I'm a Sram guy, but seeing how I have to pay for my own parts, Shimano cogsets find there way onto my bikes. Lighter and cheaper then Sram when hunting for deals.

Buster Bluth
12-16-2011, 06:03 PM
I don't know but I got a sweet deal on a 9-speed xt cassette this summer. I think I'll be ok without 10 speed for a while.

Bryan
12-16-2011, 06:04 PM
i've only been to eagle once, but i remember riding all the way up - except for a bit of a push on the wall

I watched someone climb the wall once, but it was years ago when it was in better shape and the 11-36 cogset was unheard of.

Oldfart
12-16-2011, 06:07 PM
SRAM and Shimano 10 speed cassettes are the same spacings and cross compatible. Their shifters and derailleurs are not. Shimano 10 speed shifters and rear derailleurs have a different pull ratio than Shimano 9 and are not compatible. I think that it is the same with SRAM 9 and 10. And no SRAM and Shimano rear derailleurs and shifters do not play well together, maybe front derailleurs are OK.

There are ten speed and 9 speed rings but the cranks are the same. The ten speed chain is narrower from side to side, outside dimensions, but I believe the teeth on the cogs and rings are the same size so the inner dimensions of the chains is the same. Cogs on the cassette are the same dimensions as 8 and 9 speed ones. What changes though are the ramps and pins on the rings to better pick up the narrower chain.

I figure if you have more cogs on the cassette that you actually use that you spend more riding time on more cogs so wear is better.

hampstead_bandit
12-16-2011, 06:44 PM
Why do most enduro racers run 1x10? For the Shore it's nice to have the 36t in the back and you can't get that in 9 speed.

Shimano make their HG-61 9 speed in 12-36T

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Images/Models/75/31059.jpg

since most riders are more concerned about lower climbing gears than actually "spinning out" their gears in the 11t, if you can live with a 12t smallest cog this can be an excellent solution for 1 x 9 setups that need to offer a good gear range for climbing

combined with a 34T chainring(or something unusual like E13's 35T) this could be a great setup for some riders

Feral
12-16-2011, 06:53 PM
I'd like a 12-36 9 speed cassette, but I'm not willing to run something that would destroy my freehub (and yes I could go steel but I haven't yet). Why can't they do that size in an XT, or better yet why doesn't SRAM have that range on the PG990 with the full alu spider?

hampstead_bandit
12-16-2011, 06:56 PM
I'd like a 12-36 9 speed cassette, but I'm not willing to run something that would destroy my freehub (and yes I could go steel but I haven't yet). Why can't they do that size in an XT, or better yet why doesn't SRAM have that range on the PG990 with the full alu spider?

I know guys here in the UK running that cassette on the Pro II hubs with the aluminium alloy freehub body

it doesn't actually do anything serious to the body, its just a little more tricky to remove once the cassette is worn (you can prise the cassette off with a flat blade screw driver)

you can then tidy any burrs with a flat steel file

if you install new chains regularly you should get at least 12-18 mths from your cassette, so the removal issue is not a regular head ache

DaveM
12-16-2011, 06:57 PM
Shimano make their HG-61 9 speed in 12-36T

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Images/Models/75/31059.jpg

since most riders are more concerned about lower climbing gears than actually "spinning out" their gears in the 11t, if you can live with a 12t smallest cog this can be an excellent solution for 1 x 9 setups that need to offer a good gear range for climbing

combined with a 34T chainring(or something unusual like E13's 35T) this could be a great setup for some riders

yeah apparently that thing weighs close to 500g. They wouldn't dare make it with an aluminum carrier or it would compete against their 10spd koolaid.

for 1x10, I'm all for 10spd. That just might be the ticket for my uzzi. It just seems for 2x or 3x it is an unnecessary change.

biggles604
12-16-2011, 06:58 PM
I can climb Burke with 1x10 on my SX Trail but it's a battle. Usually take my 29er. 95% of my riding is the Shore and Seymour. No granny required.
Isn't Eagle a push no matter what type of bike? Been many a year since I've been up there.

I can climb Burke in my mid ring too, but it's condition dependent, and it's not super enjoyable. Having the extra range is nice. If I was on the shore all the time, I wouldn't really want my granny ring too often

L. Ron Hubbard
12-16-2011, 08:06 PM
Jesus, with all the whining in here you'd think Facebook had rolled out a new format... oh wait.

syncro
12-16-2011, 08:12 PM
I can climb Burke with 1x10 on my SX Trail but it's a battle. Usually take my 29er. 95% of my riding is the Shore and Seymour. No granny required.

so you can clean the section of old buck from the road to the picnic area with a 1x10 setup?

JCL
12-16-2011, 08:19 PM
The top guys don't use grannies.

With a 34/36T cassette a 26T inner ring is a granny. The argument was that they don't use 1x10.

Oldfart
12-16-2011, 08:38 PM
With a 34/36T cassette a 26T inner ring is a granny. The argument was that they don't use 1x10.

I don't think the top riders are using 26 tooth rings though. The Shimano Race 2by is 28 or 30 small ring? And yep lot's of pros do a 1by on the right course.

JCL
12-16-2011, 10:08 PM
http://pedalmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Specialized-IMG_0821.jpg

Jerry-Rig
12-16-2011, 10:12 PM
so you can clean the section of old buck from the road to the picnic area with a 1x10 setup?

I usually dab in a couple of spots but I also dab on the 29er with a granny. The only time I would need a granny would be going up the powerline from Hyannis. From Dales up I can do it in 1x10. Granny is definitely easier but I like to push the bigger gears. I find it easier the spinning.

Oldfart
12-16-2011, 10:37 PM
http://pedalmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Specialized-IMG_0821.jpg

I'll stand corrected. It looks like Kulhavy had a 24 low on his 29er. Many others are using 39 -26 if they are on SRAM. Shimano riders get 28 low on the XTR race cranks. I am surprised at the 24 on Kulhavy's rig. Perhaps that was a course specific gear.

shirk
12-16-2011, 10:57 PM
Spin to win motherfockers.

Everyone can brag about riding like a hard man and clean everything in 1x10 all they want.

If you want to go the distance and not destroy yourself on long epic rides learn to both mash a big gear and bail to the granny and spin.

Spinning the easier gear saves energy, then you drop a couple gears and go into mash mode and leave the rest in your dust.

You bonk on a long ride and all you have is mash mode on your 1x10 it's ride over time to start walking. If you have the bail out gear at least you can spin away slowly and limp on.

Jerry-Rig
12-16-2011, 11:59 PM
Spin to win motherfockers.

Everyone can brag about riding like a hard man and clean everything in 1x10 all they want.

If you want to go the distance and not destroy yourself on long epic rides learn to both mash a big gear and bail to the granny and spin.

Spinning the easier gear saves energy, then you drop a couple gears and go into mash mode and leave the rest in your dust.

You bonk on a long ride and all you have is mash mode on your 1x10 it's ride over time to start walking. If you have the bail out gear at least you can spin away slowly and limp on.

granny gears for racing make perfect sense but most of us ride for fun and involves some stopping. I prefer to mash the gears and get a better workout. 1x10 is going to make you stronger.

kperras
12-17-2011, 12:09 AM
This is going to turn into something like the tubeless thread.

JCL
12-17-2011, 12:34 AM
I'll stand corrected. It looks like Kulhavy had a 24 low on his 29er. Many others are using 39 -26 if they are on SRAM. Shimano riders get 28 low on the XTR race cranks. I am surprised at the 24 on Kulhavy's rig. Perhaps that was a course specific gear.

That's the Worlds bike. The climbs weren't anything like as long/steep as various trails on the Shore. His bike also weighs 22lbs and I'd say he'd probably put out twice the wattage of anyone in this thread. Yet, He uses a granny ring....

Shurter and Absalon run similar gearing in most of the WC's.

JCL
12-17-2011, 12:41 AM
granny gears for racing make perfect sense but most of us ride for fun and involves some stopping. I prefer to mash the gears and get a better workout. 1x10 is going to make you stronger.

Rubbish. All that will do is fuck the cartilage in your knees.

Bryan
12-17-2011, 12:44 AM
This is going to turn into something like the tubeless thread.

I think tubeless is better then tubes....what do you think?

If you were a WC'er would you run tubes?

Do you think the Canucks need more toughness?

What happened in the tubeless thread?

biggles604
12-17-2011, 12:53 AM
Rubbish. All that will do is fuck the cartilage in your knees.

Exactly. You don't need to use the granny, but it's there as a bailout for those few short sections, or when you are tired, or want to pace yourself.

DaveM
12-17-2011, 12:54 AM
I can't believe I agree wth JCL. Usually I just endure his Intense bashing.

Bryan
12-17-2011, 12:55 AM
I can't believe I agree wth JCL. Usually I just endure his Intense bashing.

ever since the Specialized Sucks thread.....

JCL
12-17-2011, 01:16 AM
I can't believe I agree wth JCL. Usually I just endure his Intense bashing.

That's what the wife says:lol:

walleater
12-17-2011, 03:12 AM
Pah, the only time I drop out of 59 tooth chainring when climbing Cypress is when I'm reaching into my saddlebag for a cigar.

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/300095_10150341655557810_666307809_8353546_6838204 4_n.jpg

10sp FTW.

Jerry-Rig
12-17-2011, 03:17 AM
That's the Worlds bike. The climbs weren't anything like as long/steep as various trails on the Shore. His bike also weighs 22lbs and I'd say he'd probably put out twice the wattage of anyone in this thread. Yet, He uses a granny ring....

Shurter and Absalon run similar gearing in most of the WC's.
Just because they have a granny ring doesn't mean they actually use them. Curious how much they actually are.
Cartlidge in my knees are fine.

PUNKY
12-17-2011, 03:41 AM
I've read this thread several times now and still have no fucking idea what you want.

We used to be able to run any brand cassette with any brand derailleur. Is this still the case?You mean like the 10spd SLX cassette with 10spd XT chain and 10spd X0 rear derailleur and shifter I use on my Range?

Im trying to figure out why it seems to be so hard for you to just order this :censored: thing! (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=20679) Unless you want Sram cranks, then just get the X0 DHs Ken posted and bolt up whatever chainrings your heart desires. RaceFace has a few options as well (http://raceface.com/components/cranks/sixc/sixc/)

walleater
12-17-2011, 03:52 AM
I've read this thread several times now and still have no fucking idea what you want.

You mean like the 10spd SLX cassette with 10spd XT chain and 10spd X0 rear derailleur and shifter I use on my Range?

Im trying to figure out why it seems to be so hard for you to just order this :censored: thing! (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=20679) Unless you want Sram cranks, then just get the X0 DHs Ken posted and bolt up whatever chainrings your heart desires. RaceFace has a few options as well (http://raceface.com/components/cranks/sixc/sixc/)

Ha, yeah I think he just wants to carry on with a 9sp set up, but buy new cranks (2 rings and a bash). Which as we've both posted up an example from RaceFace, this is pretty easy to do. Everything else seems to be the typical 'I'm right / you're wrong' crap, and "EVERYONE BUY SRAM BECAUSE I SAID SO!" without any reasoning.

DaveM
12-17-2011, 04:28 AM
I've read this thread several times now and still have no fucking idea what you want.

You mean like the 10spd SLX cassette with 10spd XT chain and 10spd X0 rear derailleur and shifter I use on my Range?

Im trying to figure out why it seems to be so hard for you to just order this :censored: thing! (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=20679) Unless you want Sram cranks, then just get the X0 DHs Ken posted and bolt up whatever chainrings your heart desires. RaceFace has a few options as well (http://raceface.com/components/cranks/sixc/sixc/)

that's likely exactly what I'm going to do and I acknowledged that way back in the 6th post in this thread.

I'm more thinking about cranksets, as that's what I'm in the market for. I know 9spd is still available now, but for 2012 it looks like xo and xt is 10 spd only.

and here

that's exactly what I'm going to do. That'll hold me over for a few years.

my beef is more looking into the near future, like next year. Once all the 2011 stock is sold out, it looks like there won't be many 9spd options available and we will be forced into 10spd, willing or not. I just don't see the reasoning to obsolete a system that worked well.

then there was a bunch of willy swinging about the need for a granny or not

JCL
12-17-2011, 04:31 AM
Just because they have a granny ring doesn't mean they actually use them. Curious how much they actually are.
Cartlidge in my knees are fine.

Yeah those guys run a FD, shifter, cable and chain ring for fun :rolleyes:

Look forward to hearing about your knees in ten years ;)

L. Ron Hubbard
12-17-2011, 04:49 AM
ahahaha I can just imagine some people buying computers.

DaveM
12-17-2011, 04:55 AM
ahahaha I can just imagine some people buying computers.

:lol: http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=144242

Jerry-Rig
12-17-2011, 05:14 AM
It's so nice that NSMB has so many engineers and doctors on the boards and JCL happens to be both. :-)

JCL
12-17-2011, 05:19 AM
I'm the one stop shop for all your cycling advice.

PUNKY
12-17-2011, 05:27 AM
10 is a larger number than 9 which means its better!

Larger companies will force new shit down our throats. Smaller companies like blackspire & race face will most likely continue to make 9 speed rings for a few years. maybe stock up

FYI my Chromag ring is stamped 9/10 speed. WWs have been running 10 spd chains on 9 spd drivetrain for a while. The main culprit seems to be shimanos dynasystem. Everything is appears to need dynasystem compatible products as well. my new XTs have a 40/28 spread that will run a Chromag ring but if I do go 2x10 I'll most likely get a blackspire 36/24 set up as I'm running a bastardized SRAM KML Chromag drivetrain

I probably sound like a dick right now so I'll just stop

walleater
12-17-2011, 06:07 AM
10 is a larger number than 9 which means its better!

Larger companies will force new shit down our throats. Smaller companies like blackspire & race face will most likely continue to make 9 speed rings for a few years. maybe stock up

FYI my Chromag ring is stamped 9/10 speed. WWs have been running 10 spd chains on 9 spd drivetrain for a while. The main culprit seems to be shimanos dynasystem. Everything is appears to need dynasystem compatible products as well. my new XTs have a 40/28 spread that will run a Chromag ring but if I do go 2x10 I'll most likely get a blackspire 36/24 set up as I'm running a bastardized SRAM KML Chromag drivetrain

I probably sound like a dick right now so I'll just stop

I've just had a look on Norcosales website, and you can still buy a 58BCD 5 bolt 20 tooth chainring, and if my hazy memory serves me well, that was the Suntour Microdrive system from circa 1990 (and I think we may have one in stock too!!), so I think the impending Zombie Apocalypse is of greater concern than running out of 9sp chainrings.

switch
12-17-2011, 11:22 AM
Cage width is typically what is most important on a front derailleur. The cage width should be wide enough to just work for all gear combinations, and no wider.

A 10 speed dual ring specific will be narrow and not properly work with a triple crank as the chain will rub in a lot of gear combinations. Same if you have a front derailleur designed for a dual 10 speed setup and want to use it with a dual 9 speed setup; the 10 speed derailleur could be slightly narrower because the chain and chainring spacing is narrower, so a 9 speed chain could rub.

There also could be a bit of difference due to the maximum chainring size the derailleur is targeted at, but I don't think it'll make a big enought difference to notice.

If you currently have an XT front that's a triple width, it'll work with a 10 speed dual, but you'll have extra spacing that you don't need and that can cause some slop issues.

You can run 10 speed chains on 9 speed rings, but the opposite can cause rub because the chain is too side for the chainring spacing.

You could get 10 speed cranks, and keep your derailleur, but you'll want to change the chain and the front shifter as the 10 speed has tighter spacing between rings.

I recently bought the XT 9 triple speed cranks from CRC. They're great and easy to install. I'm also happy to go with outboard bearings. :)

zahgurim
12-17-2011, 03:39 PM
I miss 8 speed :(

Johnie P
12-17-2011, 03:50 PM
granny gears for racing make perfect sense but most of us ride for fun and involves some stopping. I prefer to mash the gears and get a better workout. 1x10 is going to make you stronger.

Is that what the big S told you to do?

Jerry-Rig
12-17-2011, 05:15 PM
Yes... They have been telling me how to pedal bikes for over 15 years.

hampstead_bandit
12-17-2011, 07:12 PM
I'm gonna try out one of those cheap shimano 12-36T 9 speed cassettes :)

now its raining / snowing here in the UK, I find my 1 x 9 bike just a little overgeared with the 11-34T, when climbing on softer ground and its a lot cheaper / easier to change the cassette than the front chainring

pedalhound
12-17-2011, 07:42 PM
LOL..I love you guys...some good entertainment here.

Oldfart
12-18-2011, 02:42 AM
could be slightly narrower because the chain and chainring spacing is narrower, so a 9 speed chain could rub.

There also could be a bit of difference due to the maximum chainring size the derailleur is targeted at, but I don't think it'll make a big enought difference to notice.

If you currently have an XT front that's a triple width, it'll work with a 10 speed dual, but you'll have extra spacing that you don't need and that can cause some slop issues.

You can run 10 speed chains on 9 speed rings, but the opposite can cause rub because the chain is too side for the chainring spacing.

You could get 10 speed cranks, and keep your derailleur, but you'll want to change the chain and the front shifter as the 10 speed has tighter spacing between rings.


)

The 10 speed cranks and 9 speed cranks are identical. The rings are the same distance apart. The ramps and pins are different to pick up the narrower chain. And I imagine that a ten sped front derailleur may be a bit more narrow that the 9. That is the case for sure with road. I have mixed and matched 9 and ten speed "cranks" and rings with no issues other than having to get a 10 speed front derailleur for the road bike. The diff was about 3mm. Big diff in performance.

On one bike I had old 9 speed RF 24 X 36 rings with a triple 9 spd derailleur, 9spd chain and cassette. Worked fine. Went ten cassette and chain and it worked the same. Once available I got the two speed front derailleur and it did work better. Now I have the 9-10 speed rf 24 X 36 rings and it works a bit better. Both my set ups are two by ten. Both use a triple crank as opposed to a two ring specific crank. XTR trail on one bike and Sixc on the other so in effect I am running a small ring and middle ring. Both have the two speed XTR front derailleur.

walleater
12-18-2011, 02:56 AM
The 10 speed cranks and 9 speed cranks are identical.

We just need another 4 more people saying this, and another 6 pages of crap, and I think the message might become clear :D

Johnie P
12-18-2011, 03:03 AM
Yes... They have been telling me how to pedal bikes for over 15 years.

figures they would be wrong about that as well.

Hepcat
12-19-2011, 09:45 PM
10 speed is awesome for 1x10. 32x36 and you can climb anything.

I bought this line when I was putting together my last bike. Went home to my local trail and proceeded to push 90% off a trail that I normally clean 100% of using a granny.

I'm not Kabush, (and we should keep in mind that none of us are), but I do race XC and for me the 1x setup didn't work. Even when I found a really mild grade climb, after a few hard loops I was wishing for a granny. Epics of any kind were totally out.

I think a truer statement would be something like "1x10 is always more painful and less efficient, but ok if you are lucky enough to live somewhere where all you ever have to climb is a consistent mild grade, once.

pedalhound
12-19-2011, 10:06 PM
I bought this line when I was putting together my last bike. Went home to my local trail and proceeded to push 90% off a trail that I normally clean 100% of using a granny.

I'm not Kabush, (and we should keep in mind that none of us are), but I do race XC and for me the 1x setup didn't work. Even when I found a really mild grade climb, after a few hard loops I was wishing for a granny. Epics of any kind were totally out.

I think a truer statement would be something like 1x10 is always more painful and less efficient, but ok if you are lucky enough to live somewhere where all you ever have to climb is a short consistent mild grade.

That's why I went with a 28/36...yeah I spin out on some really fast trails...but I can climb just about anything with this setup.

taprider
12-19-2011, 11:59 PM
....climb just about anything ...

your def'n of anything must by pretty limiting or you include walking as part of climbing
bet you can't clean Nimby, Windy Pass or Camel Pass in 28/36 non-stop without putting a foot down

pedalhound
12-20-2011, 12:16 AM
your def'n of anything must by pretty limiting or you include walking as part of climbing
bet you can't clean Nimby, Windy Pass or Camel Pass in 28/36 non-stop without putting a foot down

Yeah...my drive train would not limit that...my weak ass legs would be the weak link in that situation...lol.

shirk
12-20-2011, 06:15 PM
pfffft 10spd.

Get with the times, 12 speed is coming down the pipes.

http://www.adventure-journal.com/2011/12/fresh-goods-a-12-speed-road-drivetrain-because-11-wasnt-enough/

walleater
12-20-2011, 06:47 PM
I've been looking at KCNC's stuff (or at least the CNC stuff...) for a while, and some of it is pretty rad. It'll be interesting to see what they do with drivetrain stuff. I'm more interested in moar competition then moar gears though. I don't know if they have a Canadian distributor though?