Night owls see it first - Shimano Saint

[cam@nsmb.com]

Here is the straight goods directly from the source.

Check it. (http://www.nsmb.com/gear/saint_04_03.php)

[Reggaeman]

IMO, the Saint group isn't really worth it. As another person on this board shares the same opinion (you know who you are) that of course it would be Shimano who would make a Derailer that would only be compatible with there own Hub. Bravo to Shimano on that.

As far as I'm concerned I'd simply stick with the XTR or move to the XO for a Drivetrain option. The Saint DH Brakes... Whats wrong with the XT's? They work AWESOME! Some of the best brakes I have ever felt. On that note 2003 Hayes Purples for sale w/ 8" Rotors. $450 for front and rear.

Cosmetically... I think the Cranks are F-Ugly! They may work well and be light but what is wrong with the XTR's of 2002? Why would you make a crank that looks like an FSA and charge 2 or 3 times as much?

I dunno though, IMO, I won't be running any of the new Saint components.

[Diligent_Nose]

if I had the blign to by that shit I woud, but I don't.,...:(

[bighitter]

time will tell................i guess.the idea of the derailer hanging from the axle could be good,but i wouldn't want to be the first and it seems like a costly change over to try it(derailer,hub,wheelbuild) later b

[JimmyJ]

Originally posted by bighitter
time will tell................i guess.the idea of the derailer hanging from the axle could be good,but i wouldn't want to be the first and it seems like a costly change over to try it(derailer,hub,wheelbuild) later b

:werd:
I think ill give it a year and see how people like it

[thewwkayaker]

If you can use the derailer on any hub (e.g. Chris King) I might check it out. Otherwise my current derailer will only be replaced by Rohloff (in time....sigh)

Cranks - still like RaceFace (Canadian too)

Brakes - haven't had any issues with hayes.

[ryan]

i dig the chain rings and clean little lexan bashgaurd. i also like the steel pedal thread inserts in the crank arms...that's been a long time coming...

i was hoping for an affordable 3 speed rear hub:( i guess that was a bit too wishfull...

[Shore for Sure]

The brakes look kinda cool.

Everything else looks like shit.

[gimped]

I like the idea of the crank set, but I'll stick with Raceface, thank you. Jamie, XTR cranks are crap dude, I bent mine not from from drops, but from pedalling! They are just XC crank arms = hollow, weak, flexy.

Words from Shimano Canada warranty dept:

"...XTR DH cranks are not made for aggressive downhill riding, therefore there isn't any warranty on them."

Yea, that sounds like a good purchase.

I'll stick with SRAM. The stuff is so much better and the shifting is amazing. I have not skipped a gear on both my bikes, one of which I've riding for 2 years! The derailleur doesn't slap on the frame either because it has a stop.

The new SRAM derailleurs coming out look exactly like the XO one, without the price. I really like the gripshift on the DH bike, it's so intuitive.

Good to hear that Shimano is trying to mix things up though. The industry needs it once in a while. But I really don't like the incompatability with other components.

[willmtbike4food]

http://www.nsmb.com/images/gear/Saint/caliperondisc.jpg

look at all the weight-savings measures taken. the arms holding the braking surface to the center of the rotor are toothpic-thin. there are more holes in the braking surface than there are craters on the moon.

and this is supposed to be stronger? i think shimano should've looked a little closer at the group they're trying to serve here: i'll gladly have another 20g of rotating weight on my wheels (rotors specifically, are what i'm talking about), just for the security of knowing upon contact, my rotor won't bend like crazy.


one of the advantages of discs, is even if you bend your wheel, you can still ride home with them. this can't be done with rim brakes.

but now, with the xc/road-ish rotor, the rotor will be bent much more easily. a SMALL bend in a wheel makes little-to-no-difference. a MINESCULE bend in a rotor makes it nearly imposssible to ride on.




that, and hopefully the derailuer will be compatible with non-saint-gruppo-hubs. i JUST purchased a 2003 shimano xt derailuer, and fashioned a home-made "stop" for it, so it won't hit the chainstay.

it works great, and i don't plan on throwing out an additional HUGE sum of money to buy new shimano hubs ( i already own xt's), and new rotors too (to be compatible with the hubs).

[white ri0t]

What I would like to know is if Shimano has made a front hub that is 20mm? Or have they shot themselves in the foot with that one?

And if I read correctly, I can use the saint rear deraillieur with my old XT hub, which would be nice. But, I wouldn't mind buying their hub/derallieur combo, provided I can mount my hayes rotor on it.

One advantage I can see with there hub/bolt on derallieur is that they have really helped out the horizontal dropout crowd, provided that you can get enough clamping power on the axle.

But where are the shifters, levers and front derallieur? Cogset? Chain?

[NOM4D]

i would rock those cranks...

[seand]

haha...
man, if i were to ride with those..
another notch in my belt of broken hardware...

im sure they are sturdy, but i have NO LUCK with anything shimano has put out...i had to deal with their derailleurs until recently...glad im shim free :lol:

anyone who uses this setup needs to post a really lengthy review for everyone...i for one am very interested.

give it to bender, let him review them :) :lol:

[Pennywise]

cranks are the only part that looks ok...i'd rather had blackspire badgers tho :drool: ... i dont like the hollow bb either.

how much is this crap gunna cost?

[gimped]

Originally posted by seand@nsmb.com
haha...
man, if i were to ride with those..
another notch in my belt of broken hardware...

i


I need proof Sean! That's not offerring me anything!

[bighitter]

Originally posted by Derek Diggler
What I would like to know is if Shimano has made a front hub that is 20mm? Or have they shot themselves in the foot with that one?

http://www.singletrackworld.com/mod/submit/images/934-8.jpg
looks as though they did,later b

[cam@nsmb.com]

Originally posted by Derek Diggler
And if I read correctly, I can use the saint rear deraillieur with my old XT hub, which would be nice. But, I wouldn't mind buying their hub/derallieur combo, provided I can mount my hayes rotor on it.


But where are the shifters, levers and front derallieur? Cogset? Chain?

I don't think you read correctly Derek. I was only speculating on the ability to retrofit - they said nothing. There is a 20mm axle.

As far as the rest of the parts go I guess you didn't see this.

You'll notice that the group doesn't ship with levers or shifters. This is because the Saint stuff isn't a true gruppo in Shimano-speak - which explains why it doesn't have a denomination like XT or XTR. A nice feature about the components is that they will mesh perfectly with new spec XTR, XT and Deore. The Saint gear was designed to address the parts that are crucial to freeride and DH while allowing compatibility with the other groups. You can use some or all of the Saint parts on your bike; pick the stuff you like and leave the stuff you don't.

[white ri0t]

Thanks Cam :)

[TREV]

sram x.o derailers r better i bet...

but the rest looks godly :drool:

[UFO]

Originally posted by willmtbike4food
[Blook at all the weight-savings measures taken. the arms holding the braking surface to the center of the rotor are toothpic-thin. there are more holes in the braking surface than there are craters on the moon.

and this is supposed to be stronger? i think shimano should've looked a little closer at the group they're trying to serve here: i'll gladly have another 20g of rotating weight on my wheels (rotors specifically, are what i'm talking about), just for the security of knowing upon contact, my rotor won't bend like crazy.

[/B]

you're just speculating based on what you see in the picture. picture for picture, the saint rotor doesnt look all that different than an xt 8" rotor. and the xt 8" rotor is not anything close to being weak

[NoeFFeX]

It looks as though Shimano have done their homework this time,
But only one thing will prove this or not.........and that is time.

[KenN]

Originally posted by Reggaeman
IMO, the Saint group isn't really worth it. As another person on this board shares the same opinion (you know who you are) that of course it would be Shimano who would make a Derailer that would only be compatible with there own Hub. Bravo to Shimano on that.

I can agree with you a bit. It's a pain to change out all sorts of hardware to try out a new system. However, on the other side of the coin, if it's truly better maybe it's worth it.

Anyone that's been riding for more than 4-5 years will know the pain of upgrading to disk brakes. Now we don't even THINK of looking back to V-brakes. Hell, I remember when V-brakes were the new big thing. We were all impressed as hell with the awesome braking power we got after upgrading from our canti-brake systems.

I kind of like the idea of the axle-mounted rear der. No more bent hangers! It's an idea worth trying, but time will tell if it's a truly workable design. Mucho coin to try it, with a new hub, derailleur needed. Looks like you have to buy a disk adapter for the hub, too. Could be a pain when you have a flat.

I'd give it a try if I had the spare $$$ and my rear der was in need of replacement.

Kn.

[white ri0t]

Originally posted by KenN


Anyone that's been riding for more than 4-5 years will know the pain of upgrading to disk brakes. Now we don't even THINK of looking back to V-brakes. Hell, I remember when V-brakes were the new big thing. We were all impressed as hell with the awesome braking power we got after upgrading from our canti-brake systems.

Kn.

Well, technology does progress, anw the last time SHimano revamped it's grouppo was XTR, and that was a while ago, so it's not like things change drastically every year. I'm all for newer things, I tend to wait a year or two before buying them, like i did with V brakes. And disks, and gripshift...
I mean, before you know it, we'll have pegs on MTB's that would be one great advancment, IMO.

On a side note, we still have greasy, dirty chains, worn out cogs and flat tires, so maybe things haven't changed that much ;)

[seand]

Originally posted by gimped
I need proof Sean! That's not offerring me anything!

wow, can we hold a grudge?





well, let me put some gas in my timemachine, go buy a pair, slap them on my bike, break them for you, and take pics...

[gimped]

Just making a point that had to be made.

[seand]

...and that point was what again?

in your post that i asked you to elaborate on, you left your comment at:
buy hayes, they are better.

that was it.

above, i stated that i have had no luck with shim components, that they have broken, and as a joke i was assuming i could brake these as well due to shim's track record....

had i left my comment at just "dont get shimano", i could see your point making statement...

but since i didnt, i dont see what point you just made....

[gimped]

No examples, nothing that helped the reader. Sorry to point that out, but it's true.

Don't you think it's just a little overly sensitive to make those replies? Lighten up man, it's all okay. Nobody's offended at my blasphamous Hayes/Hope remark.

Maybe I should be strung up for making those unfounded, misinformed statements because there's no need for that vulgarity in today's society.:rolleyes:


Sean, you kill me. :lol:

[seand]

im in a horribly pissy mood today...i walked into a shitstorm at work....bleh

so im taking everything way to personal and that needs to stop...

nobody was offended by your hayes comment....ive seen your previous posts and i know ive learned a few things from your posts on here...so i was hoping to get something else outta ya from the brake thread...thats all...


im non-violent...i dont kill you! :mad:

[gimped]

Giddyup!

I want to have your baby.

[seand]

heh, the world doesnt need any more babies...its already polluted enough with humans.

[sir HUCK-A-LOT]

meh....its new...it will have its problems. i aint gonna go out and buy the stuff if thats what you are thinking. maybe i'll give it a few years to work out the kinks...as any new innovation DOES have.
if they really are that good then maybe i might consider it down the road.
i see this as a last stab attempt by a company that deals with XC. i think it should stick to the XC stuff and leave freeriding to those comapnies that have fully embraced it and dont make it a little side pet project they work on every now and again.

[willmtbike4food]

ufo:

shimano 8" xt rotor:

http://www.bikeman.com/images/catalog/brakes/discrotor/shimxt8inch.jpg

shimano 6" xt rotor:

http://www.bikeman.com/images/catalog/brakes/discrotor/shim160mm.jpg

shimano 8" (i believe?) "saint" rotor:

http://www.nsmb.com/images/gear/Saint/caliperondisc.jpg

not only (IMO) does the saint rotor look "skimpy" compared to the current xt offerings, but, it also appears to be "skimpy" compared to other 8" offerings.

hayes 8" purple:

http://www.bikeman.com/images/catalog/brakes/hyddisc/hayesdhpropurple.jpg

magura 8" gustav m dh:

http://www.bikeman.com/images/catalog/brakes/hyddisc/maguragustavmdh.jpg




i may not be going anywhere with this, but, IMO, its all rather skimpy...

[Coop]

I wouldnt have been able to decide which is skimpier meaning weaker and which is skimpier meaning better designed and requiring less material to do the same task just by looking at it.

I'd imagine that there wont be a super-rash of these discs being bent as compared to other brands.

[willmtbike4food]

coop - yes, it isn't really fair to judge them by the pictures.

and, there probably won't be many more (if any), compared to the areas used, and number of users, but, i've had my rotors graze objects before. my front has brushed roots a couple times, and my rear took has taken a solid impact on a bridge (tire slipped off the side), but, none of the impacts (although rather light) have deemed my rotors useless.

i'm completely assuming this, but, if i had less sturdy rotors, i would probably have bent at least one of mine by now.

[Craz]

the rotor may just be thicker....

[freeeeeerider]

I tried a bike that had x-o on it yesterday and it kicked ass. The deraliuer has lots of metal on it and it looks tough. I haven;t had good luck with shimano so im making my bike a all sram- only bike when i can:)