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Mic
11-15-2008, 05:47 PM
and indicentially, science is not abstract. It's very simple. Tools are used to observe things. ...

You are wrong on this one, sorry. Any science more advanced than basic Physics class will sooner or later come to a point where the results cannot be repeated in the given set of circumstances. Science is a big deal of theory and a big dela of "we don't know really" - and then trying to prove the aforementioned theory.

Science is not a really "hard facts" thingy - which should be clear to the think-able human in the 21st century. Hell, Newton is dead, just read stuff about Nils Bohr and other great scientists of the 20th century. Can make your sleep uneasy if you believe that Science is easy and solid and what not.




lambert
11-15-2008, 09:10 PM
Allow me to explain this for him, he came here to just throw a few words out about how I am digging a hole arguing ... only to find himself in one. If I didn't expect this from him I'd probably even be amused. Heh... humans.

I'm digging a hole now, funnier and funnier, that fence your standing on is pretty damn wobbly, wonder what side your going to jump to now.

cyclist.ca
11-15-2008, 09:30 PM
Dude, I'm delusional, Puh-Leaze, do go look in a mirror.. I said there was no god, no arguement, no open to the possibilities, no scientific wrangling, simply for the fact that if there was a god, 17 month old babies would not be beaten to death. If there was such a thing as an all benevolant, all knowing, all loving creator that kind of shit would not happen. Since it does, no god. /arguement.

now go and find yourself a bigger shovel, ya just actually might unearth a funny joke or not.

Are you saying that you're not capable of entertaining the concept of a higher power beyond a narrowly defined Christian one?



get off your high horse, disco.

I am not using Big G-od, i have said small g-od all along, you are the one who is making the ASS-umption that I am. I am not closed minded at all, in fact that I would wager I'm a hell of a lot open minded than you are. Where did I declare what my own personal beliefs are? Do you know what they are. You don't do you. Are you even reading what is posted. I said in a world where a 17 month old Baby can be beaten to death there is no possible way that a god (any god) can possibly exist because if there was one 17 month old babies would not be beaten to death. so keep digging you must be getting close to china by now.

Now if you'll excuse me, i'm off to try and commit all 7 of the deadly sins in one weekend.



i myself am agnostic and share your view that the possibility of there being a
god in the biblical sense is extremely slim (see almost zero). however i am not pompous enough to assume that there is a zero chance of there being a "god" (in a non-biblical sense).


Nope, I can't not when everyday some child is murdered,or starved or brutalized.

Its not closed minded at all read what i said again, i said 17 month old baby beaten to death = no god. I think the fact that babies are murdered should be a pretty convincing arguement that there is no such thing as god, no matter what religious theory you are trying to subscribe to.



This is kind of amusing. Just a little.

cyclist.ca
11-15-2008, 09:30 PM
I'm digging a hole now, funnier and funnier, that fence your standing on is pretty damn wobbly, wonder what side your going to jump to now.

No you are not digging a hole lambert, but whatever you are doing please keep going! Please. ;)

.glib
11-15-2008, 09:31 PM
You are wrong on this one, sorry. Any science more advanced than basic Physics class will sooner or later come to a point where the results cannot be repeated in the given set of circumstances. Science is a big deal of theory and a big dela of "we don't know really" - and then trying to prove the aforementioned theory.

Science is not a really "hard facts" thingy - which should be clear to the think-able human in the 21st century. Hell, Newton is dead, just read stuff about Nils Bohr and other great scientists of the 20th century. Can make your sleep uneasy if you believe that Science is easy and solid and what not.

Science is the method, the process by which theories can evolve. It is quite solid, and the changes in our base theories over the last century only re-enforces that fact.

http://www.antiquark.com/img/scientific_method.jpg

The religious method starts and stops with 'Invent Hypothesis'.

gerewh0re
11-15-2008, 09:58 PM
Science is the method, the process by which theories can evolve. It is quite solid, and the changes in our base theories over the last century only re-enforces that fact.

http://www.antiquark.com/img/scientific_method.jpg

The religious method starts and stops with 'Invent Hypothesis'.

true, but can you keep that in the religion thread, cylclist is already confused enough

cyclist.ca
11-15-2008, 11:10 PM
that is why i consider atheism to be a "religion" a bunch of nutters who claim to have some special power to know something that only prople who follow their beliefs can know.

and if you can't KNOW it , it is FAITH (or lack there of) not KNOWLEDGE

i know you are likely trolling here because either you aren't reading or , well lets assume you aren't reading

where do you get the idea that "god", if there is one, would "respond" to prayer.

if you can prove that prayer doesn't work then you have proven that any HUMAN that says prayer does work is wrong. so really you have proven nothing

for the record, although agnostic, if i had to make a guess it would be no "god" but until we can be humble enough to admit that as humans there are things that we cannot and will not ever know, we''' just be going round in circles

o i c

you are arguing against religion, not god.

yeah i am on your side. didn't realize you were still confused about it.

so you and cyclist really are unable to separate religion (something man made) from whether or not there is a higher power, eh?

weird

2 different questions

what do i think the possibility of one of the religions being "right" - zero

what do i think of any human "knowing" how things started and why (including archbishop glib) - zero

what do i think the probability of "something" that is non random "creating" beings/planets/etc - no clue. pretty slim IMO but trying to guess that is pretty futile for a lowly human like me

Gerewh0re, I've re-read most of your posts in this thread and this time paying attention! I think I get it now and please accept my sincere apology of lumping you with the very people that I consider delusional. In my narrow view of god and given the tone this thread started with, I argued that religion and religious crowd (Christians in particular) are delusional. There are far too many definitions of God - and without giving it too much thought I made a much too general statement. SAFETY picked up on that and argued well - my apology to you too.

To actually figure out if there is god or not the only way I knew was to look it up in a dictionary. BRB with more :)

cyclist.ca
11-15-2008, 11:14 PM
From dictionary.com the definition of God is as follows:

–noun 1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe. 2. the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute: the God of Islam. 3. (lowercasehttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png) one of several deities, esp. a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs. 4. (often lowercasehttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png) a supreme being according to some particular conception: the god of mercy. 5. Christian Science. the Supreme Being, understood as Life, Truth, Love, Mind, Soul, Spirit, Principle. 6. (lowercasehttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png) an image of a deity; an idol. 7. (lowercasehttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png) any deified person or object. 8. (often lowercasehttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png) Gods, Theater. a. the upper balcony in a theater. b. the spectators in this part of the balcony.
By this definition, I agree there is a possibility that there is a god out there / or was. By giving it some more thought, I believe I am better classified as "agnostic" than an atheist. As I do think there is a possibility of the unknown god, who doesn't give a shit about us or anything else but is supreme in nature.

To sum it up, gerewh0re and I aren't in a disagreement. But now that I look at lambert.... but I am not motivated enough to argue with him right now. There were plenty of posts here that did just that.

Cheers all.

gooch
11-15-2008, 11:28 PM
if there is no god, then explain this

http://http.dvlabs.com/havoctv/dvflv/sports/Hermanos_ReefGirls.jpg

Couch_Surfer
11-16-2008, 01:10 AM
if there is no god, then explain this

http://http.dvlabs.com/havoctv/dvflv/sports/Hermanos_ReefGirls.jpg

Photoshop.

switch
11-16-2008, 02:54 AM
Photoshop.God uses Photoshop?

cyclist.ca
11-16-2008, 03:17 AM
if there is no god, then explain this

http://http.dvlabs.com/havoctv/dvflv/sports/Hermanos_ReefGirls.jpg

Don't judge the book by the cover?

http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/data/media/2/HPIM02062.jpg

gooch
11-16-2008, 03:19 AM
Photoshop.

that is the real ocean you moran

.glib
11-16-2008, 03:19 AM
Photoshop.

Really bad photoshop too.
Looks more like that crappy setting that some P&S cams have.

switch
11-16-2008, 03:24 AM
that is the real ocean you moranOcean?

gooch
11-16-2008, 03:25 AM
Ocean?

what you think that is a lake?

XXX_er
11-16-2008, 03:26 AM
either you believe or you don't period

I always say its just like some one tells a joke and you don't get it.

do I hate you cuz you are religiuos ?

NO ...I just don't get what you do and never will

gooch
11-16-2008, 03:34 AM
I always say its just like some one tells a joke and you don't get it.



so cyclist is religious?

switch
11-16-2008, 03:34 AM
what you think that is a lake?Oh, the blue stuff.

It's hard to tell what that is as the horizon is off.

cyclist.ca
11-16-2008, 03:38 AM
so cyclist is religious?

yeah, deeply. Want to pray with me?

gooch
11-16-2008, 03:40 AM
i know what i'm praying for

cyclist.ca
11-16-2008, 03:40 AM
i know what i'm praying for

me too, but yours will never happen.

gerewh0re
11-16-2008, 05:00 AM
Gerewh0re, I've re-read most of your posts in this thread and this time paying attention! I think I get it now and please accept my sincere apology of lumping you with the very people that I consider delusional. In my narrow view of god and given the tone this thread started with, I argued that religion and religious crowd (Christians in particular) are delusional. There are far too many definitions of God - and without giving it too much thought I made a much too general statement. SAFETY picked up on that and argued well - my apology to you too.

To actually figure out if there is god or not the only way I knew was to look it up in a dictionary. BRB with more :)

no apology needed, it has been fun.

i haven't massdebated with so many different men in a long long time.

let's just write it off as a type of arbitrage

gooch
11-16-2008, 07:02 AM
me too, but yours will never happen.

i'm gonna bet the chances of me banging a reef girl are about 100 times that of you telling a funny joke

switch
11-16-2008, 07:11 AM
i'm gonna bet the chances of me banging a reef girl are about 100 times that of you telling a funny jokeVegas called and said they wouldn't take that bet.

gooch
11-16-2008, 07:13 AM
Vegas called and said they wouldn't take that bet.

line too low?

cyclist.ca
11-16-2008, 07:33 AM
admit it, you pray I become funny, you selfish bastard :lol:

gooch
11-16-2008, 07:37 AM
admit it, you pray I become funny, you selfish bastard :lol:

chances of praying and getting a reef girl about 3-1

chances of praying and you getting funny? well, lets just say i'm, sticking with the reef girl

Couch_Surfer
11-16-2008, 08:02 AM
that is the real ocean you moran

Might be, but the horizon is straight out of a Majin Richmond photoshoot.

Taylor_P
11-16-2008, 05:51 PM
In one of my earliest posts I clarified that the only definition of god that I know of is that which I was taught to fear - biblical. So exactly what kind of god do you believe is likely to exist? Never mind, don't even answer it.



To: gearwh0re: I'll read up on your posts and reply later - need more time :(. Sorry if I did miss something. Honestly.



i had a long reply explaining my take on a god theory. but i dont feel like keeping up with this thread.

my only point is that religion (almost all of them) teach an idea of intelligent design (ID). ID is the god that every one gets caught up in. but what if you just think of the event or causes that created the universe as "god".

the whole heaven/hell eternal afterlife thing.... yea i don't buy that for one second. besides would your really want to live for eternity after death.

eternity is an unimaginable amount of time, and heaven sounds like you'd get bored after a week...

believe what ever you want, but leave the personal attacks at home.

Mic
11-16-2008, 05:59 PM
eternity is an unimaginable amount of time, and heaven sounds like you'd get bored after a week...


Depends on

a) the trails I can blaze

b) th angels who play trumpet, or flute. Depends..

Madman
11-16-2008, 07:48 PM
"George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and Christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd."