Energizer Crankworx photo contest...

[GeoffG]

So I was told by the Engergizer tent that they're holding a contest. You go on their site, submit a photo and if you win, you get a 'great prize'. The guy didn't know what the prize was but he said it would be good. I decided to check it out and this is what I found:
PRIZE:
Grand Prize: There will be one (1) Grand Prize available to be won, consisting of a full page ad in Bike Magazine (valued at $10,000 CAN including full page print ad that will included their picture and production)
http://energizercanada.ca/crankworx/rules.aspx

So let me get this straight. You submit the photo, and rights are transferred to Energizer. And in return you get the picture in an ad? Am I understanding this right?
Isn't that a bit rediculous? Sure, it would be cool to say that it's your photo in an ad, but you literally get nothing out of it. You're basically letting them use your photo for free while they get exposure and you get your name in the bottom corner of the ad that no one will see. If they can spend $10g on an ad, I think they can give you an actual prize on top of it getting published:???:.

[connor]

almost as bad as shoveling snow off a-line?

[heckler]

not even a free set of batteries for your bike?

[Straya]

I'm sure some up and coming photogs would love that kind of exposure.

[GeoffG]

almost as bad as shoveling snow off a-line?

No, that's volunteering. Everyone who helped got a free bike park pass, food and some swag for their time. With this, it appears you get nothing except your photo in a magazine.

[Faithless]

I'm sure some up and coming photogs would love that kind of exposure.

WRONG.

[Straya]

WRONG.

Care to elaborate there champ? 'cause I think they will get entries for that comp which would prove me correct.

And as always if you don't like it dont enter.

[Faithless]

Care to elaborate there champ? 'cause I think they will get entries for that comp which would prove me correct.

And as always if you don't like it dont enter.

http://www.wheelsandwax.com/v3/content/view/29/28/

[the flying moose]

http://www.wheelsandwax.com/v3/content/view/29/28/

sending in your photos WILLINGLY is a slightly different than some company stealing your photos.

[GeoffG]

sending in your photos WILLINGLY is a slightly different than some company stealing your photos.

But willingly sending in a photo without compensation is retarded. How do you think photographers make a living? Even though Energizer is using this 'elaborate scheme' for a contest, some compensation should be given. Essentially, Energizer will make money off advertising. Just like Bike making money by selling magazines with content that they have to pay for. Works the same way I think.

[Straya]

Yeah sorry Faithless but your link deals with another issue all together. Entrants in this competition are fully informed about the usage and ownership of the image should they chose to enter.

All I'm saying is that some people might see this as an opportunity or 'big break'. Established photographers are not really likely to enter this one, I think its more for the up and comers who are going to be prepared to forgo payment for the chance to be published in a big magazine and therefore increase their chances of earning money for future shots

[GeoffG]

Yeah sorry Faithless but your link deals with another issue all together. Entrants in this competition are fully informed about the usage and ownership of the image should they chose to enter.

All I'm saying is that some people might see this as an opportunity or 'big break'. Established photographers are not really likely to enter this one, I think its more for the up and comers who are going to be prepared to forgo payment for the chance to be published in a big magazine and therefore increase their chances of earning money for future shots

But the thing is: You send in photos to a magazine to get published. If they get published, the magazine likes them for their article, and if not, then they didn't make the cut. The magazine doesn't care that you're some pro photographer or some kid with a lucky shot. They will publish the photo if they like it.
Im not saying that this contest is a bad thing. I wouldn't mind getting one of my photos published in a full page ad, but Im not going to waste a great photo and not get anything out of it. They're just banking on people sending in photos and not realizing how the photo industry works. This is just a cheap way for them to get a photo and not have to pay off a photographer for their shot.

[Straya]

Yeah good points. I guess you just get to say "stuff that I'm not entering"

I'm still fairly sure that others will see that they can get something out of it and will enter, and they are gonna have to learn about the industry at some point anyway.

[Couch_Surfer]

Kudos to Energizer. If I'd bothered driving up for Crankworx, I'd submit some shots. Would be cool to pass the mag around the office and say 'hey that's mine'.

Energizer doesn't owe you jack. There are ton of talented amateurs that would be stoked just to see their work in print - that's who these guys are targeting.

[Kossinnd]

I'd only allow it if I could have a gigantic watermark of my nsmb nickname across it. ;)
But seriously I would love to have one of my pics in a big name bike mag. but then again I am not looking to get a career in photog, so that is what differs me from others.

[Dropsonde]

other mag companies read the mag, see your name, maybe like your photo (maybe) and maybe, just maybe they want moar

[Tdiddy]

by trading your photos for gear, or "free exposure", you are essentially screwing over every photographer that is struggling to make a living selling photos. It may sound awesome to get your photo published in a big bike magazine, but it's just a trick companies use to get out of paying for photographs. The more people that give their photos away for free, the less great photographers we'll get to see, because nobody will be able to afford to shoot professionally if companies are no longer willing to pay. This is a career for some people, so anyone that has respect for professional photographers should not give their photos away. I'm sure other photogs trying to break into the scene with some exposure would regret those decisions a few years down the line when trying to make rent.

[Faithless]

Yeah sorry Faithless but your link deals with another issue all together. Entrants in this competition are fully informed about the usage and ownership of the image should they chose to enter.

All I'm saying is that some people might see this as an opportunity or 'big break'. Established photographers are not really likely to enter this one, I think its more for the up and comers who are going to be prepared to forgo payment for the chance to be published in a big magazine and therefore increase their chances of earning money for future shots

Did you read the whole article? Don't you read the part where it mentions these type of contests?

This contest are destroying the photo industry. Same with the tools walking around giving their photos to news agency's for nothing. They put photojournalists out of work.

[Faithless]

Kudos to Energizer. If I'd bothered driving up for Crankworx, I'd submit some shots. Would be cool to pass the mag around the office and say 'hey that's mine'.

Energizer doesn't owe you jack. There are ton of talented amateurs that would be stoked just to see their work in print - that's who these guys are targeting.

Wrong. They are looking for free photographs. Anytime you "give" your rights away for your photos they can constantly use your photo for anything they want. I'd imagine smoething like bike magazine that sells around 10k issues a month (for example). Thats 10k people looking at your artistic work for free, making money for a battery company.

Companies do this to escape paying their photographers fair compensation for their artistic talent and work.

You see the "10k Value" that they posted for the contest? THAT'S 10K THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO PAY TO YOU BUT ARE GETTING SHIT BECAUSE THEY SCREWED YOU.

Want Exposure? Internet, Word Of Mouth, Portfolio, Photog Magazines.

[GeoffG]

by trading your photos for gear, or "free exposure", you are essentially screwing over every photographer that is struggling to make a living selling photos. It may sound awesome to get your photo published in a big bike magazine, but it's just a trick companies use to get out of paying for photographs. The more people that give their photos away for free, the less great photographers we'll get to see, because nobody will be able to afford to shoot professionally if companies are no longer willing to pay. This is a career for some people, so anyone that has respect for professional photographers should not give their photos away. I'm sure other photogs trying to break into the scene with some exposure would regret those decisions a few years down the line when trying to make rent.

At least somebody understands.

[Smoke]

You know, the way that's worded, you get a full page ad if you win. It doesn't say anything about it being an Energizer ad in the rules.

So you could do whatever you wanted with it.

[Couch_Surfer]

Wrong. They are looking for free photographs. Anytime you "give" your rights away for your photos they can constantly use your photo for anything they want. I'd imagine smoething like bike magazine that sells around 10k issues a month (for example). Thats 10k people looking at your artistic work for free, making money for a battery company.

Companies do this to escape paying their photographers fair compensation for their artistic talent and work.

You see the "10k Value" that they posted for the contest? THAT'S 10K THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO PAY TO YOU BUT ARE GETTING SHIT BECAUSE THEY SCREWED YOU.

Want Exposure? Internet, Word Of Mouth, Portfolio, Photog Magazines.

Wrong. Your photography isn't making money for a battery company. Batteries are making money for a battery company.

Energizer is trying to figure out how to maximize their exposure/brand awareness for their marketing buck. Will they get more exposure by buying some photo for 10K in a bike magazine or will they get more exposure by spending 10K on a contest that amateur photogs and tourists with digicams can enter. Looks like they chose the latter.

As for choosing a career in photography and this contest screwing all of you over. I don't have a lot of sympathy. This is the landscape you have chosen to work in, digital media is changing it and has been for 10 years.

[Couch_Surfer]

by trading your photos for gear, or "free exposure", you are essentially screwing over every photographer that is struggling to make a living selling photos. It may sound awesome to get your photo published in a big bike magazine, but it's just a trick companies use to get out of paying for photographs. The more people that give their photos away for free, the less great photographers we'll get to see, because nobody will be able to afford to shoot professionally if companies are no longer willing to pay. This is a career for some people, so anyone that has respect for professional photographers should not give their photos away. I'm sure other photogs trying to break into the scene with some exposure would regret those decisions a few years down the line when trying to make rent.


Isn't this the argument the RIAA uses?

But I'm guessing noone here has downloaded any music/movies/tv shows recently.

[KenN]

Energizer should use these photos in their ad:

http://www.chrisjordan.com/images/current2/1193252839.jpg

http://www.chrisjordan.com/images/current2/1193254171.jpg

http://www.chrisjordan.com/images/current2/1193254243.jpg

Depicts 170,000 disposable Energizer batteries, equal to fifteen minutes of Energizer battery production.

Kn.

[Tdiddy]

Isn't this the argument the RIAA uses?

But I'm guessing noone here has downloaded any music/movies/tv shows recently.

I don't think this is the same at all. That would be like your neighbour's kid winning a high school battle of the bands competition with first prize being signed by Sony music. Except Sony doesn't pay the kid anything, but offers to distribute the music to give exposure. Then Sony turns around and tells the next band that they're not going to give them any royalties because other bands like the first kid are willing to give their music for free exposure, so why wouldn't everyone? Then I suppose Radiohead comes along and reinvents the distribution scheme and sells their own music. So what's the radiohead equivalent for photography that you would propose with your changing digital media argument? Are all photographers supposed to offer a pay for what you feel it is worth to look at photographs? I'm just interested to understand the connection you're trying to make to music/video/movies where artists have other paying outlets? I don't think it's the same at all.

[.243racer]

A got a free set of batteries by sweet talking the cute blonde girl at the booth. :)

[GeoffG]

A got a free set of batteries by sweet talking the cute blonde girl at the booth. :)

JORDAN ROBERTS WORKS FOR FREE. HE'S RUINING THE INDUSTRY!!!one!!11

[JimT]

Wrong. Your photography isn't making money for a battery company. Batteries are making money for a battery company.

Energizer is trying to figure out how to maximize their exposure/brand awareness for their marketing buck. Will they get more exposure by buying some photo for 10K in a bike magazine or will they get more exposure by spending 10K on a contest that amateur photogs and tourists with digicams can enter. Looks like they chose the latter.

As for choosing a career in photography and this contest screwing all of you over. I don't have a lot of sympathy. This is the landscape you have chosen to work in, digital media is changing it and has been for 10 years.

Obviously, batteries will only make money for a battery company if people are aware of the product - hence the advertising.

Consequently, despite most companies seeing their advertising as a nessisity, in my experience very few are actually willing to spend money on it, and most go to extreme lengths to avoid paying more than they have to. Energiser were probably always going to place an ad in BIKE magazine - especially as a silver sponsor of Crankworx. It's going to cost them $8,265 just to buy the full page space (if they pay ratecard*). Then they have to pay a designer, maybe an agency, who'll take a commission - so some marketing guru at Energiser looking to reduce his advertising costs came up with this gem to save himself $3000. Instead of buying a high-quality photo from a professional industry photographer (and help to actually SUPPORT the sport they sponsor) - he decided -we'll hold a competition inviting "would -be" photogs to send in their submissions in the hope we get a good one. No where in the T&C's (that I could see) did it mention any that the winner would have his/her name credited in the ad either...

The people that would get the joy of seeing their work in print, won't generally have the skills to take a photo that a company would be willing to associate their brand with. Basically - anyone with some photographic skill would expect payment for something like this. If I was a photog, I'd hold onto my Crankworx images and offer them for submission when WB puts out their next call for summer images. At lease then you'd get paid AND a photo credit.

This is not a competition - it's a tight-ass company's call for submissions thinly veilled as a competition, and in the end, for the sake of saving a few bucks, all their going to get is a low quality, budget ad that will probably do the brand more harm than good. "You pay peanuts..you get monkeys".

*http://www.actionsportsgroup.net/flash/mediakits.html

[fergs]

The advent of cheap prosumer dslr's and lots of marketing has turned a lot of people into wanna-be photogs willing to do anything to get something published. Ad companies are all too aware of this. Only people interested in photography would have bought pro level film cameras back in the day. Today everyone is interested in hi tech gadgets, so everyone has a dslr.

I think big companies still want good photos for their ads. It's the little companies with no money that rely on cheap prosumer shots for ads. I don't think actual pros would have made much money from these little companies anyway, and I wonder how much pro photog's have really been affected by the dslr revolution.

Likewise with wedding photogs. Most people don't like to risk having their wedding day photos shitty or screwed up, so I think they generally prefer spending some money on a real photog rather than giving the job to uncle mike and his spanky new dslr. Some couples don't care and are happy to use uncle mike. They probably wouldn't have hired a pro anyway.

I'm curious how many pros are really affected.

[J-Kwon]

get off the shore threads faithless, you don't even mountain bike,

[skifreak]

The advent of cheap prosumer dslr's and lots of marketing has turned a lot of people into wanna-be photogs willing to do anything to get something published...

Can't wait for Faithless to chime in on this one...

[Midas]

Lets start placing bets on how many joey shooters that got pocket wizards for christmas and are stoked on their new XTI and submit to that contest and fuck the industry raw no vaslene even more.

[C.C.]

Yep. So true. Weddings are a one day take, with no room for screw ups...well for some, more than one take.

Hiring professional photographers with a proven portfolio is the ticket. I've had friends pony up quite a bit just to have the peace of mind that their wedding photos were going to be top notch. For the most part, they got what they paid for....great photos and a serious chunk taken from the bank account.



Likewise with wedding photogs. Most people don't like to risk having their wedding day photos shitty or screwed up, so I think they generally prefer spending some money on a real photog rather than giving the job to uncle mike and his spanky new dslr. Some couples don't care and are happy to use uncle mike. They probably wouldn't have hired a pro anyway.

I'm curious how many pros are really affected.

[SIDESHOW]

its a great opp. for an amateur photog. Photo published worldwide+Energizer on a client list.

quit acting like bitchy little haters and see the positive in things. If you dont like the contest, dont enter, and move on.

The photogs are the ones cutting each others throats, not the buyers.

[Couch_Surfer]

its a great opp. for an amateur photog. Photo published worldwide+Energizer on a client list.

quit acting like bitchy little haters and see the positive in things. If you dont like the contest, dont enter, and move on.

The photogs are the ones cutting each others throats, not the buyers.

I always chuckle when I see eye to eye with Sideshow.

[GeoffG]

its a great opp. for an amateur photog. Photo published worldwide+Energizer on a client list.

I would be embarrassed to say that I gave Energizer a photo for free and got nothing for it. A company of that size should at least give me a fucking box of batteries.

[GeoffG]

Likewise with wedding photogs. Most people don't like to risk having their wedding day photos shitty or screwed up, so I think they generally prefer spending some money on a real photog rather than giving the job to uncle mike and his spanky new dslr. Some couples don't care and are happy to use uncle mike. They probably wouldn't have hired a pro anyway.

I'm curious how many pros are really affected.

Shooting mountain biking, and shooting weddings are completely different, though. For an event like Crankworx, you have around 66 (25 riders, two runs each and finals ... etc.) chances to take a good picture. You can take 1000 photos, but you'll be lucky if you get five bangers that turn out good enough to be published. You can take all those photos and never show anyone and not have anyone say otherwise.
Hell, Im not saying Im a pro photographer or anything, but out of all of the photos I took for the slopestyle, I really only like 4 or 5. Two of which I would even consider sending to a magazine. But shooting events like that can be an art. You can never know exactly what will be thrown down by anybody on any stunt. And by picking one spot, you're taking the chance of missing something elsewhere on the course.
But with wedding photography, you can't take 1000 photos, get paid thousands of dollars and if you only give your client 5 photos, you've got a fucked reference. You need to be able to take good photos and know what you're doing if you're going to be paid that much. And that's a lot of pressure. Your business relies on good references and being referred to by previous clients.

So honestly, will this affect the industry? Probably not that much. It will affect the industry if every company decides to do this now. The people that will complain the most about this are the photographers that went to school, have a diploma/degree/certificate, and are too lazy to find their own work. They would much rather complain about companies like Energizer and the folks submitting photos ruining the industry. I originally made this thread to just point out the wrong-doings of this contest. Photography is not my job, Im not complaining about people taking my job or work away from me. I do it as a hobby and I spend time reading and looking at different photographers and ultimately, it keeps me in a sport that I cannot compete in.
/rant:???: over.

[fergs]

Shooting mountain biking, and shooting weddings are completely different, though. For an event like Crankworx, you have around 66 (25 riders, two runs each and finals ... etc.) chances to take a good picture. You can take 1000 photos, but you'll be lucky if you get five bangers that turn out good enough to be published. You can take all those photos and never show anyone and not have anyone say otherwise.
Hell, Im not saying Im a pro photographer or anything, but out of all of the photos I took for the slopestyle, I really only like 4 or 5. Two of which I would even consider sending to a magazine. But shooting events like that can be an art. You can never know exactly what will be thrown down by anybody on any stunt. And by picking one spot, you're taking the chance of missing something elsewhere on the course.



Another factor to consider is why you're shooting an event like crankworx. If you're there because you've got one or two assignments for a couple of specific riders, then chances are you'll know ahead of time what they're going to do and where, allowing for setting up etc., and in general it makes life a little easier. I have a responsibility to NSMB to shoot the whole thing - every rider on every run doing something sweet. Usually that means standing in one area for maximum coverage and snapping 5 or 6 shots per rider as they cruise down the course. It also means a lot duplicate compositions, which sucks. But I'd rather have that than miss a rider because I was trying to setup somewhere else. I'd love to be able to go for just one or two super banger shots, but that would never work for the article. I end up sending Cam 50 or 60 shots from which he selects a bunch that suit the story. Where am I going with this? I have no idea :D

You're right about weddings - you only get one shot and you can't afford to mess it up. Crankworx can be stressful, but it's nothing compared to shooting weddings. There's no way in hell I'd hire an amateur to shoot my wedding.

As for energizer? Simply getting an image published isn't enough. They should be throwing down some cash too. Cheap bastards.

[shirk]

The photogs are the ones cutting each others throats, not the buyers.

Care to explain this further?

From my knowledge on this topic I'd say it's the ametures and semi-pros that are cutting throats by working for free or just parts.

[SIDESHOW]

no I dont. Its been happening for years, and will for many more.

[smyrly]

It happens all the time in almost every industry, some people grossly undercharge for their product just to get recognition. It drives down the overall value the product. But, it's up to the others in the industry to show that what they have to offer is better than the cheaper (or free) alternative. If it isn't, then they should change industries. Just as big business isn't allowed to collude to maximize profits, nor can small business, including independent photographers. The fact that people are worried that these free alternatives are ruining the industry means that they recognize themselves that they are overcharging for their product.

[Faithless]

Can't wait for Faithless to chime in on this one...

If I posted what i have been doing the last 6 months, you would *deleted - infraction given*.

[GeoffG]

If I posted what i have been doing the last 6 months, you would STFU.

Now you've got us all curious.

[wa90]

I've had a pic of mine in a bike catalogue in exchange for a frame (ace!), and in a couple of small non-bike industry magazines after people asked nicely if they could use them.

Each time I've been stoked to see my work in print and still have copies.

I shall chop my hands off for my evilness, and direct people to their destitute local wedding photographer next time anyone asks.

[freerider guy]

If I posted what i have been doing the last 6 months, you would STFU.

Words only mean so much. How about you back up what you just said or you *no stfu on nsmb*

infraction given.

[Faithless]

Posted via Mobile Device

nou

[Vegas Baby!]

OK-I just got off the phone with energizer and they're so stoked that you guys are so passionate about this contest that everyone who enters, get this, everyone who enters is going to get there very own 9 volt!! Now so you can pin the other guy down and press it to his lips!

[J-Kwon]

props for energizer for stepping up!
maybe they'll even get a free energized dildo and shove it up my ass.

[GeoffG]

OK-I just got off the phone with energizer and they're so stoked that you guys are so passionate about this contest that everyone who enters, get this, everyone who enters is going to get there very own 9 volt!! Now so you can pin the other guy down and press it to his lips!

Too bad 9 volts do absolutely nothing for my camera.

[redsdisease]

I think big companies still want good photos for their ads. It's the little companies with no money that rely on cheap prosumer shots for ads. I don't think actual pros would have made much money from these little companies anyway, and I wonder how much pro photog's have really been affected by the dslr revolution.
Little companies like Energizer.

What angle is Energizer playing to connect themselves to mountain biking anyways?

[SIDESHOW]

Uhh....sell more batteries I bet.

Do any of you realize that we have been trying to attract outside money into the sport of MTBing for about a hundred years now and now that we finally have marketing appeal and the interest of the world beyond the booths at Interbike you guys all look like shortsighted assclowns pounding on the hate-o-meter button......????

Ya it really sucks that Crankworx has gotten so big and successful. Maybe we shoulda all stayed Pist-n-Broke for the rest of our lives....hahha

Discuss....lol.

[JSinclair]

Thats awesome for the winner. It will only cost him $1000+ to have his photo in Bike magazine....

Given that $1000 would be the BARE MINIMUM a photographer would charge for a one page image for an ad in BIKE.

Most big name guys would be hitting Energiser for $2000 plus for a 3 insertion run of the shot.

Good deal though.

You buy the gear.
You take the picture.
You do the editing.
You submit it.
and
You might as well have given them $1000 in cash as well.


Sign me up Jim.



And common Cory....I don't see you giving your shit away to big companies for free. It's nice to have bigger companies in the game, but that is no reason to suggest that people's intellectual property has no value and they would be best served to give it away to help SAVE the mountain bike industry....talk about SHORT Sighted. You think if all the photogs out there were giving away free images the companies would pay you to make video? What about all the video guys out there doing protfolio shit that are screwing it for you and Brose....What goes around comes around.

[SIDESHOW]

actually we do plenty for free. I am actually working on a deal with a big corporation and have offered them lots of free work to hopefully get them stoked on what we do.

A bunch of guys on NSMB complaining about a contest, and that they aren't satisfied with the prize?? Then bagging on the company?? Ya thats something you should support Jay.

[GeoffG]

actually we do plenty for free. I am actually working on a deal with a big corporation and have offered them lots of free work to hopefully get them stoked on what we do.

A bunch of guys on NSMB complaining about a contest, and that they aren't satisfied with the prize?? Then bagging on the company?? Ya thats something you should support Jay.

Plenty for free? Look what you just typed man.
The difference here is that you're working on a deal with this 'big corporation'. You have to sacrifice a couple hours of your time to get your wage. The 'winning' photographer in this case gets nothing out of it. They will probably not be contacted again by Energizer to get a job, and if they are, it will be for nothing again.

[SIDESHOW]

I am out of this one. I cant believe how ridiculous this thread is, that is why i have been posting in it.

If you are a up and comer having your shot published in a big mag like BIKE is something.

Like I said if thats not enough, dont send it in and STFU.

So many haters that have bitchy conversations like this. Haters always fall by the wayside.

Appreciate a cool opportunity, try and win, if you win appreciate that prize, use it as best you can. Move on.

You guys look pretty silly whining that your not satisfied with a prize in a contest you didnt enter. If you did enter you look even sillier.

Have a nice day.

[SIDESHOW]

Thats awesome for the winner. It will only cost him $1000+ to have his photo in Bike magazine....

Given that $1000 would be the BARE MINIMUM a photographer would charge for a one page image for an ad in BIKE.

Most big name guys would be hitting Energiser for $2000 plus for a 3 insertion run of the shot.

Good deal though.

You buy the gear.
You take the picture.
You do the editing.
You submit it.
and
You might as well have given them $1000 in cash as well.


Sign me up Jim.



And common Cory....I don't see you giving your shit away to big companies for free. It's nice to have bigger companies in the game, but that is no reason to suggest that people's intellectual property has no value and they would be best served to give it away to help SAVE the mountain bike industry....talk about SHORT Sighted. You think if all the photogs out there were giving away free images the companies would pay you to make video? What about all the video guys out there doing protfolio shit that are screwing it for you and Brose....What goes around comes around.



C'mon Jay, are you seriously going to call me shortsighted? You know nothng of how my business operates or who is screwing us out of work( no one by the way).

You are playing the wrong side of the fence on this one. Its a contest, not the photography industry. You should be setting an example and teaching these young guys that a positive attitude and understanding the give and take of any business is what makes it go around.

Its very simple, the photo that will win, most likely would have never made any money, thats why the photog would send it in. If its a shot you think you can sell, dont send it to the Energizer Contest. D'uh.

Yeah, having a huge corporation choose "your" shot and publish it for you means nothing.

Clue in kids. Its an Opportunity pure and simple, it wasnt there last year, and if they get wind of this shit it wont be next year, and some up and comer will lose on a an opportunity to add something cool to their resume.

Honestly Jay, I expect more from someone with your experience. Your comparing apples and oranges.

[DanB]

Anyone who thinks this competition is a short cut to fame and fortune is going to be sorely disappointed.

[SIDESHOW]

there is no shortcut, its a small positive step. Maybe all you "pros" should pretend your a 15yr old kid that just won a contest that had your shot published.

Like I said, this thread is offside, and yes I do understand how it all works. I wish it would disappear, Im drawn to this kind of bullshit like a moth to a flame.

[shirk]

Anyone who thinks this competition is a short cut to fame and fortune is going to be sorely disappointed.

You mean I won't be getting calls from photo editor of Bike to do heli trips in Peru at 2x the usual day rate all expense paid 5 star hotels and someone to carry all the camera gear?

What about having all the big name companies that actually pay decent money for shots, they won't be knocking down my door with offers? My email inbox won't be full of requests to pay full pop for all my shots?

Damn I always figured you photogs lived the pimp life just form getting one good shot at Crunkwerx.

[enduramil]

Maybe we shoulda all stayed Pist-n-Broke for the rest of our lives....


You mean Bell won't accept empties for bill payments?

[redsdisease]

Uhh....sell more batteries I bet.

Do any of you realize that we have been trying to attract outside money into the sport of MTBing for about a hundred years now and now that we finally have marketing appeal and the interest of the world beyond the booths at Interbike you guys all look like shortsighted assclowns pounding on the hate-o-meter button......????

Ya it really sucks that Crankworx has gotten so big and successful. Maybe we shoulda all stayed Pist-n-Broke for the rest of our lives....hahha

Discuss....lol.
Who are the we that you're speaking of. Why do industry folks act so often like representatives of the entire mountain bike community. Money from large corporations, in the end, is not always a positive thing for action sports communities or industries.

And Cory, if you're out of the thread, why do you continue posting?

[skimtb1]

bahahahahha photography is ghey

[GeoffG]

I am out of this one. I cant believe how ridiculous this thread is, that is why i have been posting in it.

If you are a up and comer having your shot published in a big mag like BIKE is something.

Like I said if thats not enough, dont send it in and STFU.

So many haters that have bitchy conversations like this. Haters always fall by the wayside.

Appreciate a cool opportunity, try and win, if you win appreciate that prize, use it as best you can. Move on.

You guys look pretty silly whining that your not satisfied with a prize in a contest you didnt enter. If you did enter you look even sillier.

Have a nice day.

I can't believe how ridiculous you are. You're fucking blind, man. If you're an 'up and comer', you should at least know the industry a bit. This shit contest is just feeding the amateur masses by offering them an 'amazing' prize that wouldn't fly anywhere in the pros. Guaranteed the winning photo will not be some shitty shot that wouldn't have got published. It will be by some person that has no idea HOW to get published, and guaranteed it will be a quality shot (Whether by fluke, or skill). They're just banking on these folks not knowing how to submit photos to magazines so they will send them to Energizer to be used. And frankly, I would much rather get paid to get my photo published than just get the photo published.
You look pretty silly being in the filming aspect of biking, and not understanding why this is so bad. All those companies that are on your DVD, website, etc. are PAYING YOU money to compose your shit. They're not just calling you up and expecting to have to give you nothing for that. Let's see you make a living and be able to fund your next movie off no company handouts. That's not how the filming industry works either:rolleyes:.

[smyrly]

I am pretty sure this contest isn't intended for those who know or care about the industry. I know fantastic photographers that just like getting their photos out there. They have full time jobs and snapping nice shots is just a hobby. If you feel threatened by that, then prove you are better than an amateur photographer and sell your stuff. If the industry is in such a state that an amateur contest winner is taking work away from you, maybe you need to re-evaluate your career.

[SIDESHOW]

I can't believe how ridiculous you are. You're fucking blind, man. If you're an 'up and comer', you should at least know the industry a bit. This shit contest is just feeding the amateur masses by offering them an 'amazing' prize that wouldn't fly anywhere in the pros. Guaranteed the winning photo will not be some shitty shot that wouldn't have got published. It will be by some person that has no idea HOW to get published, and guaranteed it will be a quality shot (Whether by fluke, or skill). They're just banking on these folks not knowing how to submit photos to magazines so they will send them to Energizer to be used. And frankly, I would much rather get paid to get my photo published than just get the photo published.
You look pretty silly being in the filming aspect of biking, and not understanding why this is so bad. All those companies that are on your DVD, website, etc. are PAYING YOU money to compose your shit. They're not just calling you up and expecting to have to give you nothing for that. Let's see you make a living and be able to fund your next movie off no company handouts. That's not how the filming industry works either:rolleyes:.


easy tiger.

[GeoffG]

easy tiger.

Just because you got embarrassed doesn't mean you have to ignore the fact that Im right.

[SIDESHOW]

In a conversation based solely on opinions no one can be right or wrong.

The only thing that would embarrass me would be to get caught in public with your mom.

Nice try tho, way to bump one of the dumbest threads ever.

[Midas]

This thread does rais valid issues and I'm with geoffg and faithless on this. It is an issue and amature shooter should be aware of what this does and I'm sure a good majority of the action sport shooter community can back up that arguement.

[Midas]

And before anyone pipes up read this and get your knowlege up.

http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1989

[the flying moose]

And before anyone pipes up read this and get your knowlege up.

http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1989

that's an interesting read for sure.

[GeoffG]

http://energizercanada.ca/crankworx/
Just in case anyone is interested, they picked a winning photo. The picture is decent, but I'll bet anyone that the fact that it's in B&W is hiding some things. I want to see the ad in December.

[GeoffG]

I took a look at Bike earlier today and it's no surprise that Energizer didn't want to pay the photographer or give out a real prize:lol:.

[SIDESHOW]

Just because you got embarrassed doesn't mean you have to ignore the fact that Im right.


no your not.

look at the shot, amateur all the way. A cool simple contest. Add in a bunch of whiny e-haters and what do you get.

Damn the corporations. Spoken like a bunch of true hypocrites.

[Couch_Surfer]

Anyone got a link to the winning photo?

[the flying moose]

Anyone got a link to the winning photo?

http://www.bikerfox.com/foxphotos2/images/447.jpg

[Couch_Surfer]

http://www.bikerfox.com/foxphotos2/images/447.jpg

Is that Sideshow?

[kperras]

Anyone got a link to the winning photo?

It's in the new bike mag, fairly unimpressive shot actually. Not worth your time looking it up.

[GeoffG]

Anyone got a link to the winning photo?

Look two posts above?

[cam@nsmb.com]

So I was told by the Engergizer tent that they're holding a contest. You go on their site, submit a photo and if you win, you get a 'great prize'. The guy didn't know what the prize was but he said it would be good. I decided to check it out and this is what I found:

http://energizercanada.ca/crankworx/rules.aspx

So let me get this straight. You submit the photo, and rights are transferred to Energizer. And in return you get the picture in an ad? Am I understanding this right?
Isn't that a bit rediculous? Sure, it would be cool to say that it's your photo in an ad, but you literally get nothing out of it. You're basically letting them use your photo for free while they get exposure and you get your name in the bottom corner of the ad that no one will see. If they can spend $10g on an ad, I think they can give you an actual prize on top of it getting published:???:.

To me this seems a little lazy on the part of Energizer. It would have been pretty easy to say to a couple of companies "Hey we're doing a contest that will be publicized in bike mag - would you be interested in contributing some prizes?" That would have been a no-brainer - not to mention the fact that a year's supply of rechargeable AAs would have been at least some kind of prize that would have cost them basically nothing - while promoting their product at the same time. Even some swag from bike mag would have sweetened the pot - and it's pretty clear they are going to make some coin off this.

So the Energizer marketing people could probably use some guidance in the industry - but I don't think they were really malicious. In fact it's a shame that someone from bike mag didn't say - "you know what would be cool..." It's pretty clear that this contest was meant for someone who would be stoked to have their photo in bike mag. Not a bad prize for someone so inclined - but it's obvious they could have done much better for very little effort. You have to bet that Energizer has contacts with people like Canon and Nikon as well and could have gotten their ear.

So I'm playing both sides of the fence here. It's cool that we are getting noticed outside the bike industry and that should only mean good things for the industry in terms of budgets for films, photographers and magazines, Web sites and other media. Cool for Energizer to get involved but poorly executed.

A first step? Sure - let's call it that and hopefully next time they'll put in a little effort and make it cool. They could have included a shot of Jobey and maybe even a one line bio (I missed it in bike mag - did they do that?) as well as a big enough prize to make the winnner smile when the UPS truck showed up at the door.

With a little luck next time the folks at Energizer and other big companies will ask for some guidance within the bike industry and they'll knock it out of the park.

One thing is for sure though the biggest way to handicap yourself in the bike business is to have a bad attitude. Nobody buying what you are selling? Maybe it's time to have a look in the mirror. Just like nobody like's downer attitudes on a ride - very few folks in the bike business have time for working with someone who brings the vibe down - even if they are producing good work.

[DaveM]

I think photographers have taken a bit shot to the chin in recent years. All the fancy new digital equipment means a hobbyist can occasionally get a great shot, and thinks it's cool to have it published. Magazines and advertisers think free shots are great for the budget and the pro photographer is left wondering how he's going to eat. The hobby guy likely has a 1 in 1000 chance of getting a good shot but there's thousands out there. The pro photographer can capture the moneyshot on demand at any given time, and rightly so demands a premium price for that quality and consistancy. Magazines may think a kinda good shot for free is good enough compared to a brilliant shot that they have to pay for.

Some pros look at at contest like this as a company working a gimic to get free photos. Maybe they are right, but a comment in an earlier post seems to pose the question.....if your career is threatened by amateurs and hobbyists, maybe it's time to look at that career because it doesn't appear to be changing any time soon.

[Robot]

Some pros look at at contest like this as a company working a gimic to get free photos. Maybe they are right, but a comment in an earlier post seems to pose the question.....if your career is threatened by amateurs and hobbyists, maybe it's time to look at that career because it doesn't appear to be changing any time soon.

Says the guy that fits the shoe but, as you mention, good pros will always be better than a hobbyist. Equipment is levelling the playing field a bit but, as a business owner, if I wanted a sure-thing in a specific period of time, I wouldn't hire a hobby snapper like DaveM to take my product shots.

I also wouldn't hold a contest as a means to pimp my product, but that's just me. It'd be interesting to see how much it actually costs a company like Energizer to administer said contest.

[DaveM]

Says the guy that fits the shoe but, as you mention, good pros will always be better than a hobbyist. Equipment is levelling the playing field a bit but, as a business owner, if I wanted a sure-thing in a specific period of time, I wouldn't hire a hobby snapper like DaveM to take my product shots.

I also wouldn't hold a contest as a means to pimp my product, but that's just me. It'd be interesting to see how much it actually costs a company like Energizer to administer said contest.

Not really the guy fitting the shoe, I'll never give anything away for commercial use. I feel that's taking the food out of pro photographers mouths.

I take lots of mtb event shots and if someone wants a picture of themselves they can have it. I always tell them it's for personal use only. I talked to a few pro shooters about this and no one had a problem with it. There's no real market in selling race shots to racers. I've thought of trying to sell event shots online but from everyone I've talked to, it likely won't generate enough revenue to pay for itself, let alone profit.

[Robot]

Not really the guy fitting the shoe, I'll never give anything away for commercial use. I feel that's taking the food out of pro photographers mouths.

didn't you have shots of a local rider posted on an internationally-recognized bike company website for the better part of a year? :nerd:

I take lots of mtb event shots and if someone wants a picture of themselves they can have it.

that's totally different and, as you mentioned, pros couldn't be bothered with that kind of work because the return isn't that great. offering up good photos (for free) of people at races is a great way to contribute and generate goodwill if you're not going to ride down the mountain during an event.

[DaveM]

didn't you have shots of a local rider posted on an internationally-recognized bike company website for the better part of a year? :nerd:
.

yeah, you're right from a couple of years ago before I was educated about how things work. I thought it was submitting pictures to a "riders gallery" next thing I see them in the website. Shame on me for not knowing what I was doing.

[DaveM]

if you're not going to ride down the mountain during an event.


oh, I missed that one the first time, you bastard. :fu:

[GeoffG]

To me this seems a little lazy on the part of Energizer. It would have been pretty easy to say to a couple of companies "Hey we're doing a contest that will be publicized in bike mag - would you be interested in contributing some prizes?" That would have been a no-brainer - not to mention the fact that a year's supply of rechargeable AAs would have been at least some kind of prize that would have cost them basically nothing - while promoting their product at the same time. Even some swag from bike mag would have sweetened the pot - and it's pretty clear they are going to make some coin off this.

So the Energizer marketing people could probably use some guidance in the industry - but I don't think they were really malicious. In fact it's a shame that someone from bike mag didn't say - "you know what would be cool..." It's pretty clear that this contest was meant for someone who would be stoked to have their photo in bike mag. Not a bad prize for someone so inclined - but it's obvious they could have done much better for very little effort. You have to bet that Energizer has contacts with people like Canon and Nikon as well and could have gotten their ear.

So I'm playing both sides of the fence here. It's cool that we are getting noticed outside the bike industry and that should only mean good things for the industry in terms of budgets for films, photographers and magazines, Web sites and other media. Cool for Energizer to get involved but poorly executed.

A first step? Sure - let's call it that and hopefully next time they'll put in a little effort and make it cool. They could have included a shot of Jobey and maybe even a one line bio (I missed it in bike mag - did they do that?) as well as a big enough prize to make the winnner smile when the UPS truck showed up at the door.

With a little luck next time the folks at Energizer and other big companies will ask for some guidance within the bike industry and they'll knock it out of the park.

One thing is for sure though the biggest way to handicap yourself in the bike business is to have a bad attitude. Nobody buying what you are selling? Maybe it's time to have a look in the mirror. Just like nobody like's downer attitudes on a ride - very few folks in the bike business have time for working with someone who brings the vibe down - even if they are producing good work.

That was basically my point. A company the size of Energizer could have easily offered some sort of prize. Whether it be batteries for a year or even asking a bike company, camera company or another possible source that they are in contact with. Hell, Im sure they could strike some deal with Nikon or Canon for batteries for their product. Or even work a deal with Whistler for a media pass next year and a couple days for Crankworx next year. That would have been the easy solution, but maybe next year they could figure that out. I would have loved to see my photos in a full page ad, but with respect to the pro photographers I wouldn't really want to step on their feet in that way. Photography is not my job, but Im not going to be going against the industry standard.
And I agree that it is nice to see sponsors from outside of the industry trying to make their mark. Same thing with Kokanee, Nintendo and other companies you see advertising during Crankworx. It does nothing but help biking in general with regards to what you said.
ps. It appeared in the December issue of Bike. So you should still be able to find it. I didn't spend a lot of time looking at it, so Im not sure if the photographer was given credit, but I just remember seeing a small Energizer logo at the bottom of the picture.