Vet Ethics??

[SIDESHOW]

So if you've raced pro "at all" in a calendar year/season should you "ever" be able to sign up in the masters class.

I am not looking for the official rules here, I want opinions. There are a couple Whistler locals that I believe have raced pro class this year that are conveniently signed up in Vet Ex for the Canadian Open as well as other events.

I know its not sanctioned but to me that is no reason to take advantage and sandbag it?

Discuss??? I want to know if I am reasonable before I make a few waves.....

[DaveM]

I think if they are holding a pro CCA/UCI license it's kinda lame to enter a lower class just because it's non sanctioned.

[Mattykona]

Just ask Nigel Page.

Stripped (http://www.sicklines.com/2008/02/15/nigel-page-masters-title-stripped/) of Masters Title due to Trade Team 4x class.

That being said, racing pro in a Club race vs Canada Cup, or in Nigel's case a World Cup are completely different situations. I raced "pro" at our club 4x (indoor and outdoor), but would have definitely inquired about racing vet at the Slalom.

Especially after finding out how easy it was to win the 30+ class....Dang!

[bcbud]

We talked about this during slalom, some guy ahead of me during registration went Pro for the DH races but Amateur for the Duals, if you race Pro or Elite at anything and you sandbag, its just wrong and it makes you look like a fake toward your sponsors and whoever else you represent.

[Wayne P]

Depends on the level of competition. If you are a mid pack pro and over 30, dropping down to get a better result is perfectly fine in my opinion. Oh hey, that's what I did!

[Timmigrant]

I think categories across events is a little different. If I'm still racing Pro DH at 30 I'll still race Pro DH, however if I was to enter a dual slalom or a 4X I'm definately not entering Pro ... I've never raced a dual or a 4X before and would definately enter Senior Mens.

[Bryon]

A little more competition in the Vet Cat. is always good.:woot: I can see if you are a local pro it is a bit of a step up to race the WC croud.

[billytalented]

I think its different to enter a lower class in a different discipline than to enter a lower class in the same discipline you have been in all year. ie Regular DH racer with little 4X or Dual experience and not racing the same level for all categories. I don't really like to hear people Dropping to a lower category especially if they have raced in the higher class for most of the year. I don't race so its hard for me to say, it just seems pretty lame. Won't really earn much respect winning his class but his time may tell a different story. Besides, I doubt there will be a lot of WC guys racing the Canadian Open to drop you numbers.

[Timmigrant]

Besides, I doubt there will be a lot of WC guys racing the Canadian Open to drop you numbers.
What is cool about Crankworx is that it attracts a lot of the World Cup guys and girls. At the Garbanzo DH yesterday there was by my count 20+ World Cup men and 5+ World Cup women!

[billytalented]

What is cool about Crankworx is that it attracts a lot of the World Cup guys and girls. At the Garbanzo DH yesterday there was by my count 20+ World Cup men and 5+ World Cup women!

I know theres a large contingent in the main feature races but I havent seen as many of them in the Canadian Open which usually runs later on in the week. Still at least a handfull.

[gary j]

IMHO

local races and international events (crankworx) are different animals. MANY local pro's, at every age, would be better off racing expert at major events instead of pro.

besides, i would be more embarrassed to win masters but have 4 guys my age racing pro with faster times. best age group rider is just that, no matter what class he/she is competing in on that day. i would personally love to see the masters events open to anyone at any level.

4X and dual categories are different from DH and XC and road. they should not change your ranking across disciplines.

gary

and cory, i once heard you call ANYONE racing vet a sandbagger. have the sands of time changed your opinion?????

[Endless Biking]

If you want to be treated like a pro... then act like one, sign up as one, and represent as a pro. If you really are a pro, be a pro and race in pro.

If you have a CCA/UCI license that says Pro, you are sandbagging IMO if you switch it up and race Masters for one race. Racers should switch categories at the end/beginning of season.

As 'bcbud' says, it's bit suspect when you start getting shifty with your categories.... You're either Pro or your not. We don't have Semi-Pro in Canada and Semi-Master is still in testing mode ;)

If you are a true professional you'll still do quite well, regardless of your discipline, and put on a show for your fans and sponsors regardless of your discipline. Any Pro DH'er should be able to hold their own in any gravity discipline, whether it be Dual, 4X, Super D or even XC.

My .02

PS: Nice uni LeClerc! Employee of the month!

DB@EB

[Wayne P]

I MANY local pro's, at every age, would be better off racing expert at major events instead of pro.

and cory, i once heard you call ANYONE racing vet a sandbagger. have the sands of time changed your opinion?????

Given that making it to a local "pro" class (and I use that term loosely) can be all about staying power rather than athletic ability, your first statement is so very true. Gary and I are prime examples of this. cough*gabefox*cough ...I must be comin' down with something.

Go just about anywhere and the local pro racing class in mountain biking is about as important as the pro tour of horse shoes. There should be a pro class and a semi-pro or elite class like in the states to separate the pack-filler with the people making money.

And yes, your second statement is also true and yes, Corey also said that he would never race vet. teehee....

[SIDESHOW]

Especially after finding out how easy it was to win the 30+ class....Dang!


I hope your joking. There are plenty of sideliners that think it was easy. Lucky for me there happens to be a Giant Slalom on Friday where they can easily show up and back up the chat.

See you there boys. No excuses about not being able to sign up on race day. Uh yeah lets show up at 9am even tho practice starts at 9:30am and try and sign up. Shame.

[Mattykona]

Of course I'm joking Corey. It's called "ribbing". It happens sometimes at races, or so I hear.

Actually I have no idea how hard it would be to beat you. You never come to our events. (insert sideways happyface here, computer!)

If you're a pro, race pro. But there are dues you have to pay for being a local pro. Once a year, you have to go to crankworks, qualify 35th, or 27th, or whatever, get to sit in the gate beside greatness, and spend the next 30 seconds realizing how human you actually are.

[SIDESHOW]

^^^ ok Ive been getting a lot of ribbing the last couple days Im a bit sensitive.

The last time I rode a HT was last years dual slalom. I would love to hit more events and will work on it for next year.

I am going to do my best to beat the sandbaggers.....I actually confronted one yesterday and he was so damn polite about it that I might have to stop giving him a hard time and just go out and have as much fun as possible.

[shirk]

I might have to stop giving him a hard time and just go out and have as much fun as possible.

Racing is not about having fun. Poke his eyes out with a rusty spoon and slash all his tires. Threaten his life. This is racing dammit.

Mountain biking is serious business after all.


On the actual topic, sandbaggers should be called out on the line and shamed back into the proper class.

[bcbud]

I beleive it takes a bit longer/harder to make it to Pro/Elite in DH, you have to have the points obviously but you also have to beat by time 75% of the Pro feild at at least one race. Makes the pros class have less filler.....and I don't even think we have Expert anymore, its Citizen/Ams/Pros now.....we need more racers to have an Expert class again...

[Darryl]

WOW my name hasn't even been mentioned yet, I'm shocked. I usually take as good a punishment here, as I do at podiums.

[bansheeair]

WOW my name hasn't even been mentioned yet, I'm shocked. I usually take as good a punishment here, as I do at podiums.

LOL. Just the thought that you expect it takes some of the fun out of it. :)

[Timmigrant]

WOW my name hasn't even been mentioned yet, I'm shocked. I usually take as good a punishment here, as I do at podiums.

You're a different kind of Sand Bagger Daryl. You dropped down for an entire year to Sand Bag the Senior Ex category at every event. Whats being discussed is racing all year as a Pro and then racing Master Ex for Crankworx.

[connor]

You're a different kind of Sand Bagger Daryl. You dropped down for an entire year to Sand Bag the Senior Ex category at every event. Whats being discussed is racing all year as a Pro and then racing Master Ex for Crankworx.


it's only Senior Men now.. I think that makes it worse. There's nothing "expert" about the way I've been riding.

[SIDESHOW]

actually I think I may back out of the Canadian Open, just too much going on to focus and do it right....

[DaveM]

There's nothing "expert" about the way I've been riding.


"senior" seems to fit though

[connor]

"senior" seems to fit though

I get to race Masters 30+ next year....

[Timmigrant]

I literally can't wait till I'm 30 ... I'm so ready for Master Expert its not even funny ... damn those fast kids these days.

[V.I._WARRIOR]

I get to race Masters 30+ next year....

I'm 30 next year too! I think i'll race pro a few more years though...probably till the arthritus kicks in from all the injuries i've had

[gary j]

i still think it is about racing in the class you are most competitive in. meaning, your best run should put you on the podium and any mistakes will put you off the back. i was 35 when i made the switch.
but in hindsight, i could have done it much earlier. i think it would have improved my riding as getting smashed in pro got old in a hurry

brant is a good example of a 30 year old who still has the chops to hang with the pros. (but taking on the best old farts at major events seems fair to me).

i'm just happy that 40 is just around the corner. will that make me fast again???

[Wayne P]

i still think it is about racing in the class you are most competitive in. meaning, your best run should put you on the podium and any mistakes will put you off the back. i was 35 when i made the switch.
but in hindsight, i could have done it much earlier. i think it would have improved my riding as getting smashed in pro got old in a hurry

brant is a good example of a 30 year old who still has the chops to hang with the pros. (but taking on the best old farts at major events seems fair to me).

i'm just happy that 40 is just around the corner. will that make me fast again???

Just extra old and grumpy. You should make a comeback so you can put old man Brittain in his place.

[Timmigrant]

Just extra old and grumpy. You should make a comeback so you can put old man Brittain in his place.

Yeah winning for that guys has been WAY too easy this year. He's won every race he's entered!

[Wayne P]

I think Brian needs his legs broken.

[Timmigrant]

That or Enns needs to race in his category.

[Wayne P]

How old are you now Timmay? I remember way back when I was 29 and I decided to stop racing elite cause mid pack was losing its luster, then I started back up racing Master Expert, hoping to sand bag the entire year. I was so happy until I realized that Graham Beattie was way faster than me. I still couldn't win! :(

I'm making my comeback in 5 years when I turn 40 and I'm going to race xc. lol

[gary j]

XC racing is where i've been hanging out the past few years.

i remember enns went XC in his late thirties and came back so strong to DH at 40. i'm following that program.

[Wayne P]

Sweet, I got 5 years to get fit. At 1-2 rides per week, maybe that plan will work out.

Face it Gary, the only reason old DH'ers get back into xc is because there ain't no 40' gap jumps on a cross country course.

[synchro]

actually I think I may back out of the Canadian Open, just too much going on to focus and do it right....

well you can always hang out with davem on the sidelines and discuss new knitting techniques.

[Timmigrant]

How old are you now Timmay? I remember way back when I was 29 and I decided to stop racing elite cause mid pack was losing its luster, then I started back up racing Master Expert, hoping to sand bag the entire year. I was so happy until I realized that Graham Beattie was way faster than me. I still couldn't win! :(

I'm making my comeback in 5 years when I turn 40 and I'm going to race xc. lol

I'm 26 ... dammit ... 4 more years of my ass being handed to me in Pro.

[Wayne P]

HTFU and start winning then you ancient bastard.

[SIDESHOW]

I am bummed that I couldnt race the open, but Crankworx is sooo busy for me, I was on the throttle from 9am to 3am yesterday, but I actually feel ok this morning, if I had been a bit more organized and thrown in some training runs this week I mighta been a factor....rats.

DH is just tricky for me, still have never really had a run that satisfied me, heard there is a Canada Cup in Loops next weekend....but I have a question for all you clunkerz...??

It used to be that there were Masters Classes at the actual Worlds, did they do away with that in lieu of the World Masters?

[just flying]

i'm thinking about racing again,i'll rather get trashed in pro,then bagging in any other class.but it look that i cant race pro anymore.too old.

[Wayne P]

Yesterday I had the urge to sell my dirtbike, buy an Intense M6, and start racing again. Fortunately I'm now back to normal. Maybe I'll sandbag in 5 years when I turn 40.

[Brian316]

I think Brian needs his legs broken.

Ouch! Hey I broke my arm twice the year I was going to try my hand a pro, just a few seconds behind your times I might add that year, so I'm happy keeping the bones in one piece. I thought you liked me Wayne? Kamloops has made you so angry. I made everyone aware in the super old guy category last year, Gord (Mr Fitness) especially, that I was coming aboard. There are some fast 40+ guys and I was in no way expecting to do this good considering I have a 6 month old baby girl, work is busy and I ride half as much. I even beat Tim (Cankles is his real nick name by the way) in Kamloops. I know that he fell but that is racing and I still beat him. I'm hoping that Bryon joins the fun next year in the 40+ as there are a few more quick guys coming aboard. I'll be waiting for you to join the crew in 5 years too Wayne, if I'm still in to this race thing.

Brian

[xy9ine]

brian, you're fast still! good to hear. i'm turning 40 this year (a terrifying prospect, really), and pseudo curious where i'm at after several years away from stopwatches. what kind of numbers are showing up in the ancient cat? good courses / vibe?
cheers,

perry

[Timmigrant]

There are some fast 40+ guys and I was in no way expecting to do this good considering I have a 6 month old baby girl, work is busy and I ride half as much.

Yeah yeah here come the excuses!

Honestly though Perry you should come out for a few races next year. The old boys have a lot of fun, and racing is becoming more and more fun as of late. The spectators are awesome, the courses are improving, the organization of events this year has been fantastic, and the event calendar is growing each year. I think all will agree 2008 has been the best year for racing in BC in a long time.

[Timmigrant]

Yesterday I had the urge to sell my dirtbike, buy an Intense M6, and start racing again. Fortunately I'm now back to normal. Maybe I'll sandbag in 5 years when I turn 40.

I could sell you a barely used, lady ridden, Norco Team DH ...

[Wayne P]

I could sell you a barely used, lady ridden, Norco Team DH ...

What is that some sort of joke? I know you're a bit of a chick (fat ankles) but I said I wanted a good bike.

Brian, I am kidding of course. What I really want to do to you is give you a big 'ol Kamloops reach-around.

[Brian316]

What is that some sort of joke? I know you're a bit of a chick (fat ankles) but I said I wanted a good bike.

Brian, I am kidding of course. What I really want to do to you is give you a big 'ol Kamloops reach-around.

Wayne, I never thought any different, just thought I'd throw out a comment or 2.

It would be great racing with you again Perry. It has been a while, and I'm sure you haven't slowed down. You would need to add some weight to your bike to make things fair though.

[gary j]

while i do love epic rides on my 7" trail bike, one day testing gamblers and i'm re-hooked on sleds. and there is really only one way to ride a big bike and thats top race it.

dust off the tickle trunk everyone. jackson will be ot for a few more events next season.

and cory, the world masters replaced age class racing (excluding junior and espoir) at worlds.

gary

[Wayne P]

By the way, the only ethics in racing vet is whether or not the winner buys beer. So in 40+ does the winner buy a round of Viagra?

[Timmigrant]

By the way, the only ethics in racing vet is whether or not the winner buys beer. So in 40+ does the winner buy a round of Viagra?

That and a round of Depends.

Oh and I wasn't talking about my Team DH I was talking about Brian Brittain's. :lol:

This is chalking up to be a good year of racing. Getting Gary, Wayne and Perry back at the races again is going to make for some shenanigans. I'm looking forward to the bench racing already.

[Brian316]

That and a round of Depends.

Oh and I wasn't talking about my Team DH I was talking about Brian Brittain's. :lol:

This is chalking up to be a good year of racing. Getting Gary, Wayne and Perry back at the races again is going to make for some shenanigans. I'm looking forward to the bench racing already.

I would definitely stay away from Tim's Blue Light Special. Low mileage only ridden on weekends, recent new frame (because another one cracked). So far the fork has stayed together though and I haven't had to scrape you off of the ground again Tim.

I tried contiuing the beer thing but a few of the 40+ guys don't drink. What is up with that? Hello, biking and beer they kind of go together.

Could be a fun year in 2009.

[Wayne P]

hahaha.... The only way you'd see me race DH again would be if someone gave me a bike and paid my way. So yea, figure that one out. :lol: Like I said, when I'm 40, after 5+ years of moto training and xc riding is when I'll come back and be surprised at how much I suck.

What do you guys think - an M6 with BOS suspension front and back?

[Tom]

There's a vid of the Canadian open up on Freecaster:
http://www.freecaster.tv/1000006_1005649

You guys might be interested at around the 28 second mark...

[Timmigrant]

Awesome find Tom ... I honestly had no idea I looked like that going through Monkey Hands ... braaaaaap!

[SIDESHOW]

and there is really only one way to ride a big bike and thats to race it.



gary


that it the so far off the mark Jackson. How about riding trails like they were meant to be ridden? Laying it down? Goin fast for real, not 7&7 fast budday, its all geometry kids.

All the guys on small bikes feel like they are given'r, but thats because they are on small bikes. I know I have been one of those guys....lol

[V.I._WARRIOR]

Does anyone know where the world masters are being held next year? Or the years after? I can find any info on it.

[Bryon]

Does anyone know where the world masters are being held next year? Or the years after? I can find any info on it.

It is still in PraLoup, France next year and I don't think the location for 2010 has been decided.

[gary j]

that it the so far off the mark Jackson. How about riding trails like they were meant to be ridden? Laying it down? Goin fast for real, not 7&7 fast budday, its all geometry kids.

All the guys on small bikes feel like they are given'r, but thats because they are on small bikes. I know I have been one of those guys....lol


everyone thinks they're hauling the mail until the stop watch tells them is just isn't so.

when you're "just riding" you have the luxury of backing off as soon as you bobble. in a race the clock keeps running till you're done.

anyone can be fast for 20 seconds.

i stand by dh bikes being specifically designed for racing dh and that's where they belong.

g

[gary j]

everyone thinks they're hauling the mail until the stop watch tells them is just isn't so.when you're "just riding" you have the luxury of backing off as soon as you bobble. in a race the clock keeps running till you're done. anyone can be fast for 20 seconds.

for example; i always thought i could hang with the big boys on my XC bike until i started racing.

i also no longer feel it is appropriate to rip up an open trail by braking hard into every corner and straightening out every line to sqeeze tenths. how do you determine the inside line if there is no tape?

i stand by dh bikes being specifically designed for racing dh and that's where they belong. or in the bike parks where they have paid staff to fix up the shred marks.



gary

[SIDESHOW]

your losin it buddy. I will ride a DH bike on every trail that it feels good on til until I die, you keep bonkin around on your eco-friendly mid-travel while I manual up your back and down your chest.

ahahhahaha BRAAAAAAPPP!!!!!!

[Wayne P]

:lol: That was funny shit Cory

[bcbud]

I get to race with ya'll next year, I will be the "young one" at 30,Cory ya gotaa race the beer league, should be fun....

[Wayne P]

Yesterday I had the urge to sell my dirtbike, buy an Intense M6, and start racing again. Fortunately I'm now back to normal. Maybe I'll sandbag in 5 years when I turn 40.

After 3 solid days in a row of dirt biking, that's not happening any time soon. Tapped out at 93kms/hr on rolling singletrack makes DH'ing feel like slow motion. Bye-bye fellas....

[SIDESHOW]

Wayne quit using your moto as an excuse to not race yer MTB. You can do both.

[Wayne P]

$$$ and mutli chillinz.

[taprider]

After 3 solid days in a row of dirt biking, that's not happening any time soon. Tapped out at 93kms/hr on rolling singletrack makes DH'ing feel like slow motion. Bye-bye fellas....

Bryon Enns did about 93kms/hr, TOTALLY RIGID, on the old Blackcomb Grundig SuperCup downhill course

[Wayne P]

mmmm... gravel road descents. Sign me up. :P

[Bryon]

Bryon Enns did about 93kms/hr, TOTALLY RIGID, on the old Blackcomb Grundig SuperCup downhill course

Ya, it was more like 98kms / hr when my 53T was spun out! :damn: You gotta get a man sized motor on that dirt bike of yours.