Fromme Parking Poll-Part Deux

[Sketchy Flanders]

Here is another questionaire about the parking issues in upper Lynn Valley.
The question is, how do you currently access the Fromme trails?
Hopefully the answers will be of some benefit to the decision makers.
1) I park as close to the RPO border and ride up Mtn Highway from there.
2) I park on the west side, on or near Dempsey/Braemar, and ride up Dempsey/Braemar trail.
3)I live close enough to ride from home.
4) I park down near the mall and ride from there.
5)My mom drives me up to the water towers (then we get ice craem cones)

[J0SH]

I live close enough to ride from home, but I do go along Dempsey/Braemar. I love the Idea of a easily climbable route to the second switchback though.

[craw]

I live close enough to ride from home, but I do go along Dempsey/Braemar. I love the Idea of a easily climbable route to the second switchback though.

I second that! I like riding up the Braemar trail but all the people I ride with think that's hard/dumb and won't do it with me.

An easier singletrack uphill trail would be awesome. I'd do just about anything (i.e. ride UP the Braemar trail) than ride up the last 200m of Mtn Highway. Who wouldn't prefer a fun singletrack climb to that steep pavement slog?

[freerider guy]

I live close enough to ride from home, but I do go along Dempsey/Braemar. I love the Idea of a easily climbable route to the second switchback though.

While the sounds of that is all gravy I am 100% not for a trail cutting from the Dempsey/ Braemar area to the second switchback. Looking at the map it looks like it will cross Ladies Only possibly upper skull, maybe even (but unlikely) the very bottom of pipeline, and of course the Baden Powell.

I think using the already established area of the water towers as a parking area (angled parking stalls along the side of the road past the first gate) is a good idea. The possibly making a (really) easy route from somewhere along the dempsy/ braemar area to the BP and let people go from there. I just think that the resources needed to cut a new trail (and would it be a trail or another true access point as in a road for cars?) These resources could be used for either creating a parking area instead or possibly using those trail crews to work on trails that require being brought up to sustainable code (I'm assuming RMOW and IMBA standards?)

[Bryce]

While the sounds of that is all gravy I am 100% not for a trail cutting from the Dempsey/ Braemar area to the second switchback. Looking at the map it looks like it will cross Ladies Only possibly upper skull, maybe even (but unlikely) the very bottom of pipeline, and of course the Baden Powell.

I wonder that too. It would also have to skirt around the Van Tan club at the 2nd

generally I'm an RPO parker about twice a week, and pedalling from home maybe once a week

[SammyJ]

I live close enough to ride up now, but used to park on Braemar when I lived further away.

Of all the choices, a parking lot on the north side of Braemar makes the most sense to me. I don't like the idea of cutting a road in to the 2nd or any other switchback though, as there are enough trails cut through there already.

Just climb the existing trails if you don't wanna grind it out up the paved section of mtn hwy. After you do the braemar climb a few times it's not that bad.

[Oldfart]

[QUOTE=freerider guy;1994020]While the sounds of that is all gravy I am 100% not for a trail cutting from the Dempsey/ Braemar area to the second switchback. Looking at the map it looks like it will cross Ladies Only possibly upper skull, maybe even (but unlikely) the very bottom of pipeline, and of course the Baden Powell.

QUOTE]

I'm not oposed to a TRAIL cutting across. Anything more than the BP would be too much.

[SammyJ]

I'm not opposed to an easy climb trail either, maybe something like old buck.

I think DNV wants a gravel road tho, for fire & rescue.

[Bryce]

^^^ totally. I don't think we need another access trail, but if its going in I would be REALLY bummed to see a big road cutting through the BP, Ladies/Skull and any other secondary trails. I think it would significantly change the vibe of the mountain.

[taprider]

who said mtn biking was supposed to be easy
we are only days away from a 100% rideable climb from pavement at Dempsey/Braemer to the top of Lower Oilcan
only 15 more metres to fix on Lower Oilcan
and then who will be the first to clean the whole climb with no dabs?

it won't be easy, but will be completely rollable without having to do any pedal kicks or trialsy type hopping

It will be a double black diamond climb though. So are you are Real mtn biker or what?

To me FUN mtn bike trails are not 100% do-able all the time, just like no one gets 18 holes in one in a row in golf.

and slightly off the topic, why do more people hike up Grouse Grind than ride downhill on trails on Fromme? are people looking for a climbing challenge?

[synchro]

who said mtn biking was supposed to be easy
we are only days away from a 100% rideable climb from pavement at Dempsey/Braemer to the top of Lower Oilcan
only 15 more metres to fix on Lower Oilcan
and then who will be the first to clean the whole climb with no dabs?

it won't be easy, but will be completely rollable without having to do any pedal kicks or trialsy type hopping

It will be a double black diamond climb though. So are you are Real mtn biker or what?

To me FUN mtn bike trails are not 100% do-able all the time, just like no one gets 18 holes in one in a row in golf.

and slightly off the topic, why do more people hike up Grouse Grind than ride downhill on trails on Fromme? are people looking for a climbing challenge?

that's awesome to hear, good work guys!

[Antialiazed]

I have my video cam ready, who is the 1st one who shows me how to ride up LOC?

[Endless Biking]

I'm not sure about this..... Can I answer all of the above? It really depends on what ride you are doing, with whom (personal vs group vs club/commercial), how much time you have, adults vs kids vs group, etc?

For a personal ride w dog, I l like to park at DB and ride up. For group rides, it's easier to hook up at Water Towers from parking at RPO, commercial rides it is easier to drop off at Water Tower. If my mom could drive me sometime, that would be rad! I love riding from home too, although much longer.

I'm all for climbing trails but this sounds like it is only going to please a select few riders if all that is going in is a double-black climb. Maybe this is all we're after for now? How fast will this turn into a two-way double-black fiasco? "New double black-climb, let's ride down it!" -random rider on Fromme

How will you manage and maintain climbing only? I agree that trails should be challenging but this doesn't sound like it will solve that many problems, except move more riders/parking to another neighborhood that will probably play the NIMBY card too.

My .02. THoughts?

DB@EB

[SammyJ]

I'm not sure about this..... Can I answer all of the above? It really depends on what ride you are doing, with whom (personal vs group vs club/commercial), how much time you have, adults vs kids vs group, etc?

For a personal ride w dog, I l like to park at DB and ride up. For group rides, it's easier to hook up at Water Towers from parking at RPO, commercial rides it is easier to drop off at Water Tower. If my mom could drive me sometime, that would be rad! I love riding from home too, although much longer.

I'm all for climbing trails but this sounds like it is only going to please a select few riders if all that is going in is a double-black climb. Maybe this is all we're after for now? How fast will this turn into a two-way double-black fiasco? "New double black-climb, let's ride down it!" -random rider on Fromme

How will you manage and maintain climbing only? I agree that trails should be challenging but this doesn't sound like it will solve that many problems, except move more riders/parking to another neighborhood that will probably play the NIMBY card too.

My .02. THoughts?

DB@EB

The double black taprider is talking about is made up of existing trails on the mountain. Ppl already ride down them, a lot more than ride up them.

As for a *NEW* dedicated climbing trail from braemar, I suggest something like old buck. The structured built at the top of each steep section prevent riders from blasting down. Not to mention how boring it would be to do so...

[Endless Biking]

The double black taprider is talking about is made up of existing trails on the mountain. Ppl already ride down them, a lot more than ride up them.

Exactly my point!

[SammyJ]

Exactly my point!

Yah, I hear you on that. Truth of it is, a hard climb is never going to be as popular as an easy one on Fromme. Too many ppl just want the vert, and don't care how they get it.

No reason why the double black route isn't cool though, just means riders on oil can, BP and DB will have to learn to watch out for climbers.

If what we are looking for is a way to improve access to the fire road from braemar, the answer is an old buck style trail to the 2nd switchback.

[Bryce]

No reason why the double black route isn't cool though, just means riders on oil can, BP and DB will have to learn to watch out for climbers.

maybe a 'yield to uphill riders sign' at the top of the trails would help. Lotsa people seem to forget that the uphill guy has the right of way.. and its just courtesy when someone's givin er uphill

[taprider]

as far as a new easy route from Dempsey/Braemar to the 2nd...
to keep it from becoming a downhill freeway, just put in lots of grade reversals.
It will give the uphillers a breather, channel water off the road and slow the DHers
One problem is that such a route would be longer and require more gravel, District employee paid hours and money to complete. So what likely will happen is what they did on the north side of Burnaby Mtn and create the shortest straigthest route from point A to B to save on the number of gravel trucks, resulting in the Descent of Death/Death Climb.

The other problem is that anything built by the District to be fire truck and ambulance accessible will wreck the existing trails in the area, either by existing along the same path or that the District will deactivate any alternate trail close to the path of their road, such as what happened at the east end of Bridal Path

[Oldfart]

maybe a 'yield to uphill riders sign' at the top of the trails would help. Lotsa people seem to forget that the uphill guy has the right of way.. and its just courtesy when someone's givin er uphill

I think that rule needs to be modified a bit although it should apply in most instances. There may be times when the downhill rider can't stop or get out of the way easily so then that rider should have the right of way. That's the nordic skiing rule because on race skis you don't have as much control going down as you do going up. And if you nordic ski enough you know that some folks can't stop going down unless they find a convenient tree. Of course you won't find someone climbing a trail that steep on a bike very often but I do go up stuff that sees me off the bike and pushing and if someone, like me was coming down that trail, it might be hard to actually stop.

[Endless Biking]

as far as a new easy route from Dempsey/Braemar to the 2nd...
to keep it from becoming a downhill freeway, just put in lots of grade reversals.
It will give the uphillers a breather, channel water off the road and slow the DHers
One problem is that such a route would be longer and require more gravel, District employee paid hours and money to complete. So what likely will happen is what they did on the north side of Burnaby Mtn and create the shortest straigthest route from point A to B to save on the number of gravel trucks, resulting in the Descent of Death/Death Climb.

The other problem is that anything built by the District to be fire truck and ambulance accessible will wreck the existing trails in the area, either by existing along the same path or that the District will deactivate any alternate trail close to the path of their road, such as what happened at the east end of Bridal Path

So now it's an easy route? I thought it was a double-black climb you were referring to earlier?

I'm confused... and this sounds messy. I'm sure it will turn out great, change can be hard to accept sometimes.

Thanks for input and hard work to everyone involved in this.

DB

[walleater]

who said mtn biking was supposed to be easy
we are only days away from a 100% rideable climb from pavement at Dempsey/Braemer to the top of Lower Oilcan
only 15 more metres to fix on Lower Oilcan
and then who will be the first to clean the whole climb with no dabs?

it won't be easy, but will be completely rollable without having to do any pedal kicks or trialsy type hopping

It will be a double black diamond climb though. So are you are Real mtn biker or what?

To me FUN mtn bike trails are not 100% do-able all the time, just like no one gets 18 holes in one in a row in golf.

and slightly off the topic, why do more people hike up Grouse Grind than ride downhill on trails on Fromme? are people looking for a climbing challenge?

Well for the last point, walking to the top of something is historically 'the' challenge, whereas walking back down again is generally a bit tedious. Mountain biking is exactly the opposite. Getting to the top of a climb is a necessary evil in order to get the reward of the descent. Don't get me wrong, I've been a local road hill climb champion, pretty good XC racer blah blah blah in my time so understand the kick out of cleaning / owning a climb, but all the same, going down is where it's at. I'm going to cycle up Grouse Mt on Friday and did consider trying to take a more interesting route up, but sod that, I'd rather save myself for what I assume will be a long slog up, and have some energy left to still enjoy the trails once I get back down to 7th area.

Anyway I'll stop rambling on, but I just thought the whole 'real mountain biker' comment was a bit bizarre. It's a fun pastime, not an ideology.

[taprider]

So now it's an easy route? I thought it was a double-black climb you were referring to earlier?

I'm confused... DB

two different things
1. the old (but under maintenance) challenging route from pavement to top of LOC
2. the not yet built easy access road from pavement to the 2nd

a third possibility is to revive Oldfart's Peugeot climb. Could even start at the west end of Fromme to provide a medium difficulty route and another place for parking/access

no matter what, trails will be harder to climb than roads

[theweev]

who will be the first to clean the whole climb with no dabs?

it won't be easy, but will be completely rollable without having to do any pedal kicks or trialsy type hopping

It will be a double black diamond climb though. So are you are Real mtn biker or what?



I like your style taprider. You're freakish ;) I took a look @ the "uphill" this AM. I can report back that unless you are a stick w/ to Indurain size lungs, Ryan leach's bike handling skill and a bike that is scary light you are not cleaning that trail. We 35/65% rode hiked that uphill w/ our BIG bikes. It took 1 hr to get up to the road or about the same amount of time to do the loop from DB going Mtn Hwy.like my friend said. "not doing that again,at least on the big bike. It would be fun to come back on a really lite XC bike and do it just for the suffering." nuf said. rode 7th and pipeline. Sweet and SUPER fast. only sl. greasy and a wicked temp. wick way to spend a Sun morning.

[theweev]

..oh and talked to a friend in the know today. Any "trail" going to the 2nd will be a road. It has to be big enough for emergency vehicles. Think full size P/U truck. sorry to kill the dream but that's how it's going to be apparently. It'll be nice not losing the evevation anyway.

[walleater]

Having started my climb at Lonsdale Quay and finished by the Cut on Grouse the other day, by far the most demoralising and dull part of the climb was the paved part of Mountain Highway. I was fucked by the time I'd even got to the gates! I was ready to sack off the whole thing, ride Natural High and go home :lol:.

My only real point (other than to swing my enormous E-penis around my head....) is to say that no-one in their right mind would park down at the mall and cycle up on a regular basis. Would they? I'd have to get adopted by a local mum if that became the only option, and that might be hard at 35......

[Purecanadianhoney]

Been parking on Coleman for the last few years. Gets to be too big of a time commitment to park too much further afield.