Some stuff

[Mic]

So, after some time and some waiting and having other stuff to do, here are some pics of some new stuff I have done just today. It is basically some rockwork to keep roots from getting seriously damaged (here = deep shit), it needs some clayish soil to get them babies embedded/rock solid, and some more rocks as the "icing". e idiot forgot the bucket and a shovel...anyways, I guess I can finish this piece of trail this week.

My plan is to post pics from the process of building/getting this trail done so that you can share your insights/comments/knowledge with me.

This would be much appreciated. :beer:

[Kossinnd]

looks like a great start in my opinion. and man, you have some niiice terrain there.

[Tom P]

looks like a great area to build in... except for the lack of cedar of course :)

[synchro]

hey mic, you're going to end up with a problem from using that cribbing to hold back the second pile of rocks. as people roll over that and drop down to the soil their front tires are going to dig a hole over time and eventually you'll end up with a deep pit.

rock work can't just be placed on top of the loamy ground, it needs to be dug into the dirt layer that lays below the top soil layer.


in that particular situation you might be best to create a switchback and run the trail behind that first tree and then in front of the second one like i've outlined in the pic. this will help to slow down rider traffic and allow you to divert water off this section of the trail which will go a long way in helping to prevent erosion.

http://www3.telus.net/marks_stuff/suggestion.jpg

[Knnn]

hey mic, you're going to end up with a problem from using that cribbing to hold back the second pile of rocks. as people roll over that and drop down to the soil their front tires are going to dig a hole over time and eventually you'll end up with a deep pit.

rock work can't just be placed on top of the loamy ground, it needs to be dug into the dirt layer that lays below the top soil layer.


in that particular situation you might be best to create a switchback and run the trail behind that first tree and then in front of the second one like i've outlined in the pic. this will help to slow down rider traffic and allow you to divert water off this section of the trail which will go a long way in helping to prevent erosion.

http://www3.telus.net/marks_stuff/suggestion.jpg

or if you want/need to keep the straight line route, you will find you have to rock in at least a bike length past the step. You may have to rock in a longer length depending on grade or where the wheels land (if it's a huck) and/or within the braking zone. If noobs like me ride the trail the rock work would need to be 3 x longer....

As Mark indicates dig the rocks in until you find competent ground (as my Geotech friends like to say), i.e get rid of the organic surface duff, which will decay under the stones and allow them to shift and ultimately get kicked out.

Great start and look forward to seeing more.

Careful now this stuff can get addictive and that new ball and chain may not get to see much of her new hubby! ....... ahhhh I see ..... :idea: ;) say no more ...

[Mic]

Wow. Thanx a lot for your input. :)

Mark, your idea makes sense, the only problem is that the area right behind the tree (as indicated by you) ends just there...the tree virtually hold on to a rockface, so I had to built a seriously biig wooden stunt to allow the riders to pass around the tree. Hmm.

I guess I go for more rockwork instead. Hmm...the digging in is not so good an idea since it damages the roots.

My idea is to walk down 100 meters to a fire road and use the soil from the up-slope area (not organic, but mostly smaller stones/natural gravel and some clay-like stuff) as "glue" to get them stones bedded in....

[derekt]

that trail looks like it'll be awesome when its done, but is that the start of the trail, or is it like some sortof roll down that cliff before the rock work or is there trail around the cliff that we cannot see in this pic??

[TheGiggler]

Mic, how many people are going to be riding this trail?

If you're sure it's only a couple of people, I wouldn't worry about digging down to solid ground. Coming from a shore builder this might be surprising, but I believe that most trails don't need to be built as tough as those on the shore which may see a 100's of people hit them in one day on the weekend.

If you don't go to solid ground you will have some compaction and it will take longer for the section to "set up". But if you crown the section it should be OK even after some compaction.

In working on Ladies, I've found many flat sections of trail where it appears Digger rocked right on top of loam. Sometimes when the solid ground is 2+ feet underneath the surface you really don't need to go all the way down. If you build with big rocks that have good surface area they will float on the loam and you shouldn't even have a lot of compaction.

As you say though, would be nice to throw some dirt on those rocks.

[heckler]

did someone say rockface?

[Mic]

that trail looks like it'll be awesome when its done, but is that the start of the trail, or is it like some sortof roll down that cliff before the rock work or is there trail around the cliff that we cannot see in this pic??

The section in the pics is about three hundred meters into the trail. You come straight down, a slight right-hand corner, down the roll-down and over the rockwork until it mellows out and continues again with a rather steep roll-down.

Mic, how many people are going to be riding this trail?

If you're sure it's only a couple of people, I wouldn't worry about digging down to solid ground. Coming from a shore builder this might be surprising, but I believe that most trails don't need to be built as tough as those on the shore which may see a 100's of people hit them in one day on the weekend.

If you don't go to solid ground you will have some compaction and it will take longer for the section to "set up". But if you crown the section it should be OK even after some compaction.

In working on Ladies, I've found many flat sections of trail where it appears Digger rocked right on top of loam. Sometimes when the solid ground is 2+ feet underneath the surface you really don't need to go all the way down. If you build with big rocks that have good surface area they will float on the loam and you shouldn't even have a lot of compaction.

As you say though, would be nice to throw some dirt on those rocks.

Thank you. Well, right now I think that I will end up the only person, a few trusty riders know that I am digging stuff, but I think it will be too difficult for them (most trails over here are not that North Shore/Champery-esque).

did someone say rockface?

:P

...I have to ride steep stuff and technical so that I am no longer afraid. Kinda like facing your own demon's while building and then persuading the little voice who tries to restrain yourself to stfu, and listen to the inner monster instead. :)

Oh, and being aware that I crashed on a much larger (but presumably easier) rockface has given me the "grrrr", so I end up building/scoping a trail which is (compared to our standards) really difficult.

So today I got this tiny wee bit finished. Took away the rocks, got four buckets of soil (no organic "leftovers" but the other stuff), and finished it. Now it needs some rain and some "setting in".
Worked on a downslope as well, so that I have more of a "level" surface when riding kinda parallel to the elevation lines (word?).

[HIBuLlitT]

Won't the dirt just flow through the rocks and under the log holding the rocks in
place?

I'd put a damn there to stop the water from flowing too fast through the rocks.

OR...

Put a wood drop there with a rock tranny further away from the tree and then
you could dig a bit w/o hurting the roots.

Either way, you're going to need to armor that landing/bottom step after the log
or else like synchro said it's going to get punched out pretty quick, even with only
a few riders.

Looks like a nice area to ride in!

[Mic]

Have not really done any work on the trail in the last couple days.

But yesterday I did one of the rather nice and flowy xc-style trails - just to find some deadfall. Seems old. Unfortunately I cannot go in with a chainsaw, so I rather built a kind of dirt ramp on both sides of the log. There is enough deadfall and enough dirt together with decent sized rocks to built a kind of box on each side, fill it with stones and top it off with dirt. :)

Guess I have to remove the top 1/3 of the log with a saw and a wedge so that the hikers/peds have sure grip and footing.


Gonna do it tomorrow. Pics will follow. :)

[heckler]

Unfortunately I cannot go in with a chainsaw, so I rather built a kind of dirt ramp on both sides of the log.

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=253437430 2696925&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441775001

Get yourself a Bahco folding saw. I know they're availaible in the UK, so might be found in Germany. I've seen once cut through a 30 cm deadfall tree in less than 15 minutes. Quiet as a mouse too.

http://images.mec.ca/media/Images/Products/KnivesTools/4009407s_v1_m56577569830706720.jpg

[Mic]

Alright. Finished, done, sore as f*ck - my body that is. :)

Had a nearly 6 hour digging session today. Cleared the deadfall from a part of a really nice and flowy xc-ish trail and started working. At the trailhead I realised, "Dude, you forgot your saw!" :stupid:

But was too lazy to drive back home. Tried to do without it instead, and it went well.

Actually so well, that the couple people I encountered were amazed at volunteering trail work - :) One was of the local paper and he wants to run a story, even more so when I told him that such stuff is actually illegal.

Then a group of 6 horseriders came - I asked them to get off and give it a shot. All the horses walked over it and nothing happened. :D Apart from a bit which I redid afterwards, the soil and the underlying rocks held up beautifully. :woot:

RIght now I am too lazy and knackered to upload the pics into the nsmb trailbuilding gallery. Sorry for this. :)

PS: Concerning the rock work, I did actually haul nearly 20 buckets of stones - the pic was taken in the middle of the "rocking". Same goes for the stones on both sides of the ramps.

PSS: Sorry for the crappy photo quality, but had to resize to a comfy size. :)

http://photos.nsmb.com/files/2/0/7/0/0/before2.jpg

http://photos.nsmb.com/files/2/0/7/0/0/general_layout.jpg

http://photos.nsmb.com/files/2/0/7/0/0/got_rocks.jpg

http://photos.nsmb.com/files/2/0/7/0/0/ramp_stonework.jpg

http://photos.nsmb.com/files/2/0/7/0/0/diggin_it.jpg

http://photos.nsmb.com/files/2/0/7/0/0/earth_works.jpg

http://photos.nsmb.com/files/2/0/7/0/0/nearly_done.jpg

http://photos.nsmb.com/files/2/0/7/0/0/view_from_above.jpg

[Knnn]

yeah fucking nice job Mic! :beer:

Addictive eh? :dizzy:

PS you should upload the photos into the NSMB gallery and then embed them directly into the thread.

[Mic]

Absolutely, Knn. :D But today my body feels like from an old man ;)

Hiked the trail with my wife today and it looks still good, a few new boot tracks, so I guess my idea worked out. :woot:

Anyways, found an amazing area in that part of the forest - complete with nice possible log rides, small rockfaces (around 2-3 meters long) - unfortunately it is straightly visible from a hunter's cabin. :( And since it looks in prime condition, I guess the hunters and forest ministry workers frequent the area quite often.

Does anybody know how I can take off the top roud of a log without a chainsaw? Talking about a length of 4 - 5 meters. Saw and chisel?

[Knnn]

A saw to cross cut the top and a big chisel or a hand axe and hammer will do it slowly. The best tool is something called an ADS, but I can't find a picture of it. I'm sure someone else can post one up.

[HIBuLlitT]

ADZ-
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/Adze.jpg/200px-Adze.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Adz_%28PSF%29.png/180px-Adz_%28PSF%29.png

[Mic]

Wow. Thanx. Looks like a killer tool for the job. :D Now I only have to find out whether they can be bought over here.

They can be bought - HAHA!